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Planning Commission - 11/19/1996 - Joint Meeting AGENDA JOINT CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION TUESDAY,NOVEMBER 19,1996 6:30 PM, CITY CENTER HERITAGE ROOM IV 8080 Mitchell Road CITY COUNCIL: Mayor Jean Harris,Patricia Pidcock, Ronald Case,Ross Thorfinnson,Jr., and Nancy Tyra-Lukens PLANNING COMMISSION: Kenneth E. Clinton, Randy Foote,Bill Habicht,Ismail Ismail,Katherine Kardell,Douglas Sandstad,Mary Jane Wissner, Student Representative Jessica Lind CITY STAFF: City Manager Carl J. Jullie,Assistant City Manager Chris Enger,City Planner Mike Franzen, Council Recorder Jan Nelson I. INTRODUCTIONS II. PRESENTATION/STATUS OF WORK PLAN III. IDENTIFICATION OF ISSUES REQUIRING CITY COUNCIL INPUT A. Future Land Uses For Southwest Eden Prairie B. Road Connections IV. CITY COUNCIL FEEDBACK AND DIRECTION V. ADJOURNMENT • APPROVED MINUTES JOINT CITY C UNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP MEETING TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 1996 6:30 PM, HERITAGE ROOM IV 8080 Mitchell Road COUNCI N FAMERS: Mayor Jean Harris, Ronald Case, Patricia Pidcock, Ross Thorfinnson, Jr. and Nancy Tyra-Lukens COND41SSION MEMBERS: Kenneth E. Clinton, Randy Foote, Bill Habicht, Ismail Ismail, Kathrine Kardell, Douglas Sandstad, Mary Jane Wissner, Student Representative Jessica Lind COUNCIL/COMMISSION STAFF: City Manager Carl J. Jullie, Assistant City Manager Chris Enger, City Planner Mike Franzen, and Council Recorder Jan Nelson ROLL CALL Mayor Harris called the meeting to order at 6:40 p.m. Commission members Kardell, Sandstad and Lind were absent. I. INTRODUCTIONS II. PRESENTATION/STATUS OF WORK PLAN M. ENTIFICATION OF ISSUES REQUIRING CITY CON .Ii INPUT A. Future Land Uses For Southwest Eden Prairie Clinton distributed an outline on land use that showed the total land left for development and posed a list of questions regarding land conservation. Harris said the Council appreciates the job being done by the Planning Commission, noting the Commission has taken a lot of heat, all of which is undeserved. She said we now need to discuss the over-all framework that will guide the decisions made by the Planning Commission and the City Council as we go forward. Harris thought item l.c., raising the possibility of passing a moratorium to restrict • growth, was not within the purview of the Council. Enger pointed out that the City does have some control over the MUSA line and, if we do not go forward with that, it has the effect of a moratorium. CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP MINUTES November 19, 1996 Page 2 Case said one of the primary reasons we are even discussing this is the perception that the people in Eden Prairie have--the perception that open space is disappearing quickly and that we can and should do something about it. He would like to see some rationale that gives us the strength to make convincing arguments about what we need to do, bearing in mind that everything we do in terms of density affects taxes. He thought we need to deal with where we need to go and then build arguments to deal with the perception. He believes it may be time to do something final with the Guide Plan to make sure that the remaining 1100 acres are properly developed. Ismail asked if we have given any thought to the question of whether we are developing in an accelerated mode or is our development natural. Enger said the feedback we get from public hearings is that people seem to be of a common voice that we are going at a fast pace, yet it is just one-fourth of the pace at which we were developing several years ago. He thought we can very easily accommodate the current pace of growth. Tyra-Lukens asked if the four times referred to the pace of growth or was that the number of proposals. Enger said the measure would be population--from 1986 to 1989 we grew at a rate of 4000 people per year and we are now growing at 1200 • to 1000 per year. Harris asked if there are more proposals coming forward now. Enger said the scale and scope of development has come down greatly. Harris was concerned that people may not realize that because a development project may be more visible than it would have been ten years ago. Foote thought we are seeing developments now that take out all the trees on one corner with high visibility. Franzen thought we also are seeing projects getting built faster, partly because financing is easier to obtain. Tyra-Lukens asked if we would be willing to go through recasting the Guide Plan. Enger thought it is important to answer the question where we are trying to get to, because redoing the Guide Plan would take a very long time and we would have to continue operating under the current Guide Plan. He thought we could do our own planning to accommodate the plan. Tyra-Lukens noted we run into the perceptions of the public who come to complain that we are changing the Guide Plan for every project. She thought that is where they get the sense of city government not being honest. Foote noted that before buying property people do research that shows their area is guided low density and then it becomes something else when a development project is approved. Habicht said he thought everyone wants development slowed down after they move in. He thought we could focus more on what people's expectations are and explain the Guide Plan as being just a guide. CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP MINUTES November 19, 1996 Page 3 Harris noted our original goal was 45% multi-family in the city, and she has not seen the Council vary from that goal except in certain instances. She thought we need to discuss if this is still a goal that we feel is important to allow the scope of housing options to accommodate life-cycle housing. Case said he has done research on newspaper articles from the 1960's and was amazed that the goals during every campaign were for higher density and lower income housing. He thought we have only received the negative response since our population has risen to the point where traffic and everything combine to give a feeling that we are too big. He thought this is where we have to be proactive by educating people that density is not a bad word, that we are not overpopulated, and that we will have a high quality of life compared to many other areas. Wissner thought we need to have more public relations about the city to show what we have done to preserve the land. She thought we could promote that concept at the entrance of the City Center and could show how much we have done to preserve land. Pidcock thought we could compare our density to that of countries in Europe and show that we have a much lower density with a lot of open space while keeping taxes at a reasonable level and without pushing people out of the city. Harris thought it is important to have room for everyone and not to tax people out of their homes. We are also putting in an infrastructure for a population of 65,000, and the fewer residents we have to pay for that the more expensive it will be. Tyra-Lukens thought we will need to consider multi-family housing in the southwest area if we are to be consistent and use the same percentages; yet it doesn't make sense in some ways to put a lot of multi-family so far away from the city center. She would be more in favor of increasing density around the city center. Pidcock thought we need to have neighborhood commercial in all areas so that there are small retail stores available all around the city. Case thought it would be no more than another 1000 people even if we keep to 42% multi-family. Tyra-Lukens asked if that figure is correct. Enger reviewed some of the potential developments in the southwest area and said the figure would be close to 1000. Enger said the Planning Commission wrestled with the issue of putting higher • density in the Major Center Area with the Clute property. He thought Staff would have to promote high density projects since we don't have any coming to us at this point. • CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP MINUTES November 19, 1996 Page 4 Case thought that would be okay if the units could be somewhat affordable, especially if we consider the pool of employees needed for that area and the needs of the transit hub. Foote noted the spot next to the transit hub is guided for medium density. Enger said staff got a question about a luxury multi-family project on that site, but staff thought we couldn't tolerate 700 people there, partly because of the reaction to the Pulte development. Tyra-Lukens didn't understand why they said no. Enger said it was because it was in the range of 700-800 on the same sized property in the same area that people have complained about as being overly dense. Franzen said we told them no because the entire project was being developed as multi-family and we were looking for a mix and balance where housing was not the main component. Harris thought it is important to maintain a balance, but it also is important to encourage high density in the Major Center Area. Thorfinnson wasn't sure that a change in the Guide Plan is tougher than fighting each individual project. It is becoming increasingly hard to let the city do its job when we are faced with opposition that is gaining momentum. He thought we are now using the approach listed in item 3, but we need to somehow come to a consensus on these issues and determine where we want to go and how to get there. how we want to get where we want to go. He thought we need to have a longer conversation about this in order in order to get it done and to reach some consensus. Ismail suggested we reduce the list of items to consider. Harris thought we are looking at Question 2 and not Question 1 on the list. She asked Staff to schedule another meeting. The consensus was to schedule a workshop meeting for at least two hours and not on a City Council meeting night. Jullie said the Met Council can come here on December 17th, and we might want to hear them before we have the second workshop meeting. Harris thought meeting with Met Council is good because they are going forward to the legislature with certain things. Wissner asked that the Planning Commission be a part of the Met Council meeting. B. Road Connections IV. CITY COUNCIL FEEDBACK AND DIRECTION Harris thanked the Commissioners for an outstanding job in a difficult environment. V. AIX OURNMENT Mayor Harris adjourned the meeting at 7:25 p.m.