City Council - 08/21/1986 t
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UNAPPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE CITY COUNCIL
THURSDAY , AUGUST 21 , 1986 7: 00 PM, SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION BOARD-
ROOM
COUNCIL MEMBERS : Mayor Gary Peterson, Richard Anderson,
George Bentley, Patricia Pidcock, and
Paul Redpath
CITY COUNCIL STAFF: City Manager Carl J . Jullie , Assistant
to the City Manager Craig Dawson, Fi-
nance Director John D. Frane, and
Recording Secretary Jan Nelson
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PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE a
ROLL CALL: All members were present .
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I. APPROVAL OF AGENDA AND OTHER ITEMS OF BUSINESS
MOTION: Redpath moved, seconded by Bentley, to approve the
Agenda and Other Items of Business as published . Motion car-
ried unanimously .
II . ITEMS CONTINUED FROM COUNCIL MEETING HELD TUESDAY, AUGUST 192
1986
A. Payment of Claims Nos . 28987 - 29299
City Manager Jullie explained that Claims Nos . 29296 -
29299 for Commissioner Fees for Well #9 were incurred as
a result of the condemnation procedure on that well .
Pidcock questioned Claim No . 28995 for the United Way of
Minneapolis for payroll deductions and said that she wanted
to discuss whether this practice should continue . Peter-
son said he thought the City Staff votes on approving the
option of payroll deduction and the Council may not have
anything to say about it . City Manager Jullie said it was
his decision whether to allow a payroll deduction and that
this is the only one we have ever allowed .
Redpath noted that the United Way serves as a clearing
house for 90 agencies thereby allowing all groups involved
to avoid individual group solicitation df funds .
Pidcock said she thought the privilege of payroll deduc-
tion should be available for other organizations and that
allowing the United Way deduction was, in effect , favoring
that organization over the others .
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City Council Meeting -2- August 21 , 1986
Bentley noted that it is an elective deduction for the
individual employee . Redpath said that each employee can
designate the individual group or groups within United Way
to which he wants to contribute .
Anderson said that the Bloomington Schools offer the United
Way payroll deduction and commented that , prior to the
decision to offer the deduction, it was total chaos with
groups coming in to solicit funds. He said he thought the
groups who do not belong to the United Way often spend a
large percentage of their funds on the collection process .
He said that he would like to see the question turned over
to the Human Rights Commission and let them return with a
recommendation.
MOTION: Bentley moved, seconded by Redpath, to approve
the Payment of Claims Nos . 28987 - 29299 . Roll call vote:
Anderson, Bentley, Pidcock, Redpath and Peterson voted
"aye . " Motion carried unanimously.
MOTION: Pidcock moved , seconded by Anderson, to have the
Human Rights & Services Commission conduct a study on what
role the City should play in being a collection agency
for the United Way or any other organization and return
recommendations for the Council to consider.
Redpath said that the largest organizations in the City as
well as the government agencies allow the United play deduc -
tion and that he believed the City should continue the
practice .
VOTE ON THE MOTION: Motion failed with Peterson, Bentley
and Redpath opposed .
B . Comments on Manager' s Update (Councilmenber Patricia Pid-
cock)
Pidcock said that she wanted to commend Mr. Jullie for the
City Manager' s Report that he provides on the weeks when
the Council doesn't meet and also to ask John Frane for
his report on insurance . +
City Manager Jullie said he wanted to thank the Department
heads and Craig Dawson for their 'part in producing the City
Manager' s report .
MOTION: Pidcock moved , seconded by Anderson, to commend
City Manager Jullie and the staff for the excellent City
Manager' s report . Motion carried unanimously.
City Council Meeting -3- August 21 , 1986
C . Comments on Meeting with Auditors Councilmember Patricia
Pidcock
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Pidcock said that she had met with the Auditors for a couple
of hours on Monday and said they had told her our City staff
does an excellent job but that they are encumbered in the
crowded spaces in which they work. She said they reported
that Mr. Frane 's assistant Maxine was an outstanding help.
She also said that they hope the $10,000 shortage at the
Preserve Liquor Store will show up as an inventory error .
D . Trees on Red Rock Heights (Councilmember Patricia Pidcock)
Pidcock said that she had received many calls on this from
residents and asked if the trees knocked down in the devel-
opment of this area would be replaced . Jullie said not
unless it was a specific item in the Developer' s Agreement b
since the Final Plat has been approved and bonding set . He
said that homes that are built there will have requirements
for landscaping.
Redpath asked if the location of the large cottonwood tree
knocked down was part of the sewer easement . Jullie said
w it was .
Anderson said that we don't ask for a tree inventory when
a sewer is approved and said that he thought City staff
should be concerned about the location of the sewer in
regard to large trees and take the responsibility to move
the location a few feet if necessary.
E . Appointment of member to the Development Commission to fill
an unexpired term to 2Z28/88
Peterson said there were no requests for consideration left
over from January and so there are no nominations for the
appointment .
Redpath said he would like to have some discussion about
doing away with the Development Commission since there
has been nothing for them to do for some time .
Peterson said he would prefer to invite the Commission mem-
bers to come and meet with the Council or to write a letter
appraising the importance of their work and recommending
continuance or discontinuance .
City Manager Jullie said that at the last joint meeting
with the Commission there was some discussion of their
future role and that the Commission was asked to come up
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City Council Meeting -4- August 21 , 1986
with a general insight on development in the C ity and how
it was impacting the community. He said he believed it was
to be more of a monitoring of planning efforts and that they
have been receiving updates from the Planning staff regard-
ing projections and efforts particularly in the southwest
area of the City. He further said that they are a capable
group but have nothing to work on as far as the City need-
ing more development at this point .
Anderson said the original idea for the Commission was to
bring development in but, if we don ' t have a need for that
now, he thought we should not waste staff time by continu-
ing the Commission. He said that he was in favor of phasing
it out at the end of the year.
Bentley said he would like to call for a joint meeting with
the Development Commission to discuss this issue .
MOTION: Bentley moved, seconded by Anderson, to request
the Development Commission to set a joint meeting to be
held at 6:00 PM on a date to be coordinated with the City
Manager to discuss the issue . Motion carried unanimously .
MOTION: Bentley moved, seconded by Anderson, to continue
Item E regarding the appointment of a member to the Devel-
opment Commission until after the joint meeting with that
Commission. Motion carried unanimously.
III . DISCUSSION ON CITY HALL OPTIONS
Peterson said that there are two or three facets to the dis-
cussion regarding City Hall options tonight . He said that he
would like to begin by debating the process recommendations in
his proposal . He said that Item 1 regarding discusslons with
individual Councilmembers had been taken care of.
Peterson said he wanted to include staff ( Item 2) as early as
possible since they are aware of the needs and any process
would have to recognize the input of the City staff.
Peterson said Item 3 regarding the appointment of a blue rib-
bon committee was the heart of the process . He then asked the
Councilmembers for their response to that item.
Bentley said he saw this as a continuation of the process
started after the defeat of the previous referendum. He said
that a process was begun at the meeting held on May 30th and
he then reviewed the motion approved at that meeting. He said
he thought the most important issue to deal with at this point
was whether to lease or not lease and not the issue of whether
to build or not build .
City Council Meeting -5- August 21 , 1986
Peterson said that he thought the purpose of hiring a leasing
agent and directing the architect to look at building as put
forth in the motion of May 30th was to obtain information and
that neither presumed a decision to lease or to build . He said
the process put forth similarly does not preclude leasing or
eventual building on Mitchell Road or another site but, - in his
opinion, it adds a dimension to the process so that a citizen' s
committee with the Council ' s direction has a large share of
responsibility in the process . ri
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Peterson then said he is proposing this so that the process x
can continue because he doesn't think the present City Council
can continue it as we were involved in the first attempt . He
said he thought another committee with an overall charge to
study and make recommendations could succeed because it is a
different approach . He said the Council still must make some
short term as well as long term decisions .
Bentley asked whether or not the appointment of a committee at
this point is premature and said that he thought we need to set ^.
a little firmer direction as to what we would like to see
accomplished before such a committee is established . He said
he thought we have an immediate need to deal with an obvious
space problem and that the Council needs to look at the leasing
options as soon as possible .
Peterson said he thought appointing the committee does not
relieve us of any of the responsibility of resolving the im-
mediate space needs .
Redpath said he believed it would take two years or better to
build and. five years with the additional time for the process,
therefore he thought we should determine the costs very closely .
He said we have a responsibility to staff to let them know
there is an end to the current conditions .
Pidcock asked what kind of expertise would be looked for in
the committee members . Peterson responded that there should
be representatives from the business community. and the athletic
community as well as those active in support of and in opposi-
tion to the previous referendums in other words, a broad-based
community group who represent centers of influence and who can {
arrive at a consensus on a proposal for an ultimate City Hall
provision.
Pidcock said that she would like to see people with expertise
in allocating space and knowing what was needed rather than
just trying to represent the whole community . Peterson said
that experts would be used for the actual needs determination z
and that any information currc ntly available would be used .
City Council Meeting -6- August 21 , 1986
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He further said that any restrictions we might decide on up
front, such as including space for growth or other considera-
tions, would have to be built in early in the process . a
Redpath said that we had asked for response from the community
through the newspapers and we got little or no response . He
said we have to somehow identify to the community what the
needs are and that we have to separate the needs of the City
and the School District as two distinct needs.
Bentley said he had no objection to the selection of the com- 4
mittee to do something but that he was not prepared tonight to x
recommend that we appoint such a committee mainly because he
wanted to think harder about the specific points listed on the
process . He said he would like to see us narrow down the scope
of what the committee will be looking at, such as looking at a
building of 25, 000 square feet and should we have a referendum
or not, and if we should build or lease such a building. He
said he is not opposed to the concept of a committee but he
was under the impression that the meeting tonight was to dis-
cuss the leasing options . Peterson responded that we are here
to discuss leasing but that leasing doesn't address the ulti-
mate resolution of the problem.
Pidcock said that she came with the idea that we were going to
make some decisions . She said she believes we have to take the
vote on the previous referendum into consideration but that
we have to make the dec is: on and get on with it . Redpath said �
he thought we have to decide on how much space to lease and
therefore decide on whether we are going to split up the staff.
Bentley said that he disagreed with the idea of a large-scale,
long--term blue ribbon committee because it is this Council ' s
job to make the decision relative to what we are going to do
about a City Hall and then put that before the public . A dis-
cussion followed regarding the ramifications of accepting or
ignoring the committee ' s recommendations if the committee is
formed and the possible recommendations that might be developed
by such a committee .
Anderson said he thought it was a fine group of people who
worked on the site selection committee before but we didn't
accept their decision. He said that now we are talking about
going back around to the same process, therefore we must be
prepared to accept the recommendations this time . A discussion
followed regarding the recommendation of the previous site se-
lection committee and the Council 's decision on the recommenda-
tion.
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City Council Meeting -7- August 21 . 1986
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Anderson further said his real concern is the growth of the 4
City and whether we can afford to put off the process in order
to make a decision as of January 6th. He said the timing is
important so we should make a decision and go with a referendum,
if it is needed , before the School District; comes along with
another one .
Peterson responded that we are going to discuss and decide on
leasing either all of the space or part of it, but pointed out p
that this is a process that reaches for the ultimate solution. Ir
He said he believed the only alternative to forming the committee
would be to lease .
Bentley agreed that we have to start a process but that it doesn' t
necessarily have to be this process Anderson said that he
thought we could work with this process and modify it to be ac-
ceptable . Peterson agreed that modifying it was also an alterna-
tive .
Bentley said that he had a hard time accepting Item 8 regarding
implementation of the committee recommendations . He said he
didn't think any recommendations should be brought before the
Council with the understanding that they will be implemented.
He also said he would like to see Item 3 modified and that he
wasn't sure about the proposed timing.
Anderson reiterated that timing is critical and said he thought
we should get through the process in time for this to be in-
cluded in the February Parks referendum . Peterson replied that
he didn't think we would want to be the second question on a
referendum that would include parks and Community Center. He
said the dates specified do not imply that that would be the
date arr.1ved to for a possible referendum. A discussion fol-
lowed regarding the timing of the process and the dates of future
referendums .
Bentley said that if we make a commitment to a long-term lease
for the entire staff that would take some of the pressure off
for a decision on when we are going to have a referendum or
make a decision to build since the lease could be continued for
a period of time . He said with a three-year lease we would
have about a year to either have a referendum to build or
decide to build without a referendum and then two years to
construct a building that would be ready when the lease expired .
Anderson noted that the money becomes an issue at that point
if we make a decision to lease .
Redpath suggested that we continue the discussion for two weeks
to allow time for suggestions or modifications. Peterson asked
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City Council Meeting -8- August 21 , 1986
that the Councilmembers get back to him with any modifications
so that it can be put on the agenda for the next meeting and
discussion can continue .
MOTION: Redpath moved , seconded by Bentley, to continue con-
sideration of the proposal until the next meeting. Motion y
carried unanimously .
City Manager Jullie referred to the booklet containing the
analysis of leasing proposals with dollar figures dated August
19, 1986 prepared by Steve Kellogg of Welsh Companies , Inc .
He said the four sites reviewed in the report are very repre-
sentative of what is available He said they are all office/
warehouse type buildings and some of the space would be interior
area without windows .
Phyllis Redpath, 9745 Mill Creek Dr . , said that many of the
comments she had heard were in favor of expanding on the present
site . She also thought a survey would be helpful and suggested
a card cr form with several options to check off and send in
or drop off at City Hall . She said she believed there would �.
be adverse reaction if the decision was made to build without
a referendum .
Jerry LaBarre, 8761 Meadowvale Dr. , said that he liked the
Mitchell Road site as it brings the facilities of the City
together. He said he thought it was important to present to
the people the cost comparisons of leasing versus building.
Redpath said he believed the instruction we received from the
14% who voted was that we should build on land that the City
already owns . He said the important point tonight is how much
money and how long should we go on leasing but he felt that
would be a difficult decision to make until we know the cost .
Mr. LaBarre said he thought if we c ould see that we would
have the referendum we should ask the employees to suffer for
a period of time rather than leasing or adding another unit.
Bentley said that the biggest problem we have now is that the
current facility is inadequate and unsafe for the current level
of staff and that we can't withstand 18 months without some
other alternative .
Steve Kellogg, representing Welsh Companies, Inc . , re riewed
the leasing analysis figures . He said the lowest figure was
$700,000 for three years for 22 , 000 sq . ft . of space .
Redpath asked if the 22 , 000 sq . ft . is required immediately or
within the three-;dear time period . City Manager Jullie said it
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City Council Meeting -9- August 21 , 1986 d
was based on a five-year projection of current staff growth
without adding any other departments .
Bentley asked if the figure of $700, 000 was based on the aver-
age gross rate, including the operations . Kellogg said it was .
Bentley then asked if the high end would be almost $1 ,000,000.
Kellogg said that was correct.
Redpath asked what the operating expenses would be . Jullie
said this year' s budget was about $50,000 . Bentley said that
would mean operating expenses for three years would be close
to $200 .000, allowing for growth and inflation.
Redpath asked if the owner would subdivide the building since
each of the projects is office/warehouse space . Kellogg res-
ponded that the figures are based on the building being ready
to move in with the exception of the telephone service .
Pidcock asked if the figures included computer hookup. Kellogg
said that would also be an added expense but that he expected
to go back to one or two of the projects for more detailed
figures and could include such things as computer hookup at
that time .
C, Bentley noted that on an average annual basis the net addi-
tional cost per year over our current facility would be $167 ,000
per year which would equate to about 0 .5 mil per year. Peter-
son noted that we could expect that the present building could
be leased or sold .
Jullie commented that two other locations have come up recently
that might have some potential. Redpath suggested that those
two get in touch with Mr. Kellogg since he is our leasing agent .
Pidcock asked about leasing costs in the building in Edina.
Anderson said that he believed there were some legal questions
regarding the City Hall being located out of the city limits .
Kellogg said he had contacted the owners and the comparative
cost figures turned out to be $14 - $16 per sq . ft .
Kellogg noted that, after a decision is made to lease and final
plans are set , it would take 60 to 90 days for the process to
prepare for moving in.
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Anderson said he believed there are other options but was not
sure how practical they are . He said we should investigate
the figures on the portable buildings . Jullie said he recalled
the cost figures on those as being about $7200 per year for
1500 sq . ft . plus utility and maintenance costs . Anderson
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City Council Meeting -10- August 21 , 1986
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asked how many would be required . Jullie said it would depend
on whether the Council meetings would be in there . Assistant
to the City Manager Craig Dawson said we would need four of
them if we removed the trailer and did not require Council 3
chambers, which would amount to about $30 , 000 per year.
Peterson asked if modification to the present septic system
would be required for the temporary buildings. Jullie said �
none would be required .
Bentleyasked about the probability of leasing the current
building if the staff moved out . Jullie responded that he
thought there was a very good chance we could lease it .
Bentley asked what the square footage of the current building
was . Jullie said it was about 7 - 8,000 sq . ft . and would
probably lease for about $4 per sq . ft .
Bentley noted that his calculations showed a net cost per
year of $132 . 000 to lease the lowest cost site and lease out
the current building versus the cost of $30,000 per year to
add the portable buildings .
Redpath said another option would be putting part of the staff
in another location. He commented that he believed if we go
to the temporary buildings what was meant to be temporary
becomes permanent over the years .
Pidcock suggested a clause that would limit the time in the
temporaries . Peterson said he doubted such a clause would
work since there would be no alternative available . He said
his objection to the portable buildings was that we would have
to consider a Guide Plan Amendment for the site since he also
believed that the temporary buildings and would become perma-
nent and that would remain the site for City Hall .
Peterson noted the possibilities for other facilities away
from City Fall such as the Schultz house , the former Hennepin
County library or leasing smaller amounts of space in another
building for a portion of the staff. Pidcock questioned that
the Schultz house could be used if we were building on that
site .
Redpath said his concern with the portable buildings was re- g
garding the safety of the City records in an unsprinkled build-
ing. He said he thought if we do anything we should keep the
staff all together. Peterson said he would be in favor of that
if we could negotiate a lease for the existing building. He
said he thought we had to be committed to making a decision
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within 30 days in order to reassure staff and alleviate their
anxiety.
Bentley said he was in disagreement with dividing up staff and
would like to see a commitment to keeping staff together in one
place because he felt there would be a cost to the City in
terms of inefficiencies if they are split up . He said that the
only way he would go along with splitting up staff would be to
have a maximum of two locations and if we had in place an abso-
manent solution whereby they would be
lute decision fora per
brought back together within a specified period of time .
Peterson said he believed staff would find ways to communicate
the things that need to be done if they are split up. Pideock
said that she thought there were certain departments that are
not as codependent such as finance . She asked if there was any
space available in the Public Safety building. Jullie said
there was not .
Bentley asked about other buildings that could be brought in.
Kellogg said there is one more in process that would be ready
in time . Bentley asked Jullie if he could have some discussion
with potential lessors of the current building by the next meet-
ing. Jullie said he could . Bentley then asked if we could get
better information on the temporary buildings and recommenda-
tions from the Planning Department in terms of a Guide Plan
Change if we remain at the current site. Jullie said we could .
Peterson said he would like to get some revised figures on one
or two departments that might be candidates for moving out and
how much space they would require .
Redpath said that sooner or later we have to stop looking at
different buildings and finalize the list . Bentley said he
thought we should rely on the professional judgment of Mr. Kellogg
as to whether a particular building would qualify and , if it
did, to get information on it in the same format .
Peterson said that we would need hard figures, not approxima-
tions, and asked Kellogg if he would have time before the next
meeting to determine costs for leasing space for only part of
the staff. Bentley said he wanted the figures presented on
the basis of the cost of each building for year one, year two,
etc . , for a particular square footage . Kellogg said that he
would get with Mr. Jullie on this but said that the 22,000 sq .
ft . commands more to a developer than a lesser amount of space .
Anderson said that he would like to get Mr. Jullie 's opinion on
the other factors involved such as administration, convenience
City Council Meeting -12- August 21, 1986
of location for residents, working conditions and other such
considerations . Redpath said he would like to see Natalie
Swaggert get involved with the issue .
Peterson suggested that it might be best to set another spec-
ial meeting to deal with this . The consensus was to hold a
special meeting.
MOTION: Bentley moved, seconded by Redpath, to set a special
meeting for Thursday, September 4, at 7:30 PM at a place to be
determined by City Manager Jullie in order to consider the
additional information obtained by Mr. Kellogg and Mr. Jullie
in response to the requests from the Councilmembers. Motion
carried unanimously .
IV . NEW BUSINESS
City Manager Jullie said that he would like to attend the
International City Managers Association (I .0 .M.A . ) conference
in San Diego the end of September.
MOTION: Redpath moved, seconded by Anderson, to approve Mr.
(� Jullie ' s request to attend the I .0 .M .A . conference . Motion
carried unanimously .
V. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Redpath moved, seconded by Bentley, to adjourn the
meeting at 10: 05 PM. Motion carried unanimously.
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