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City Council - 09/01/1981 - Joint Meeting JOINT MEETING -2- September 1. 1981 Redpath stated that historically the two units per acre density was due to drainfield and well situations; the market had nothinq to do with the decisions made. Barker recalled it was the feeling of the community in the '50's and '60's that full acre lots were wanted. Torjesen said he has heard three points discussed: recession, high interest rates , and City policy. Of those three he would rate City policy a low third as far as market impact. He feels any decisions made by the City would have a minor effect on the market. Penzel recalled an area in the City where small lots were approved and a price limitation affixed as a condition of approval . Those lots and houses were sold out quickly despite the interest rates and the state of the economy. Beaman said the market force was concentrated in one location. Penzel said the community was providing a need. Beaman stated that 67% of the people move to Eden Prairie because of the open space. To arbitrarily change density will not solve the problem. It is the law of supply and demand -- single family homes have been the thing and now we see more duplexes and quads. He feels that the figures shown in the report are straight line economics and do not hold true; and if they were, he 'd take off 10% just for the sake of argument. He feels the desirability of Eden Prairie adds to the price. Bentley noted the vast bulk of the housing stock has been built in the past five years which adds to the overall cost of the average house. S Edstrom wondered about high rise housing -- is this something the residents of Eden Prairie are not interested in or is it not affordable due to economics. Opheim explained the Point of France was not as successful as Lake Point due to the amenities of the location. He feels Eden Prairie will mature and will have a central node 'for development, the Major Center Area , where we will see something like this. In the meantime we will see more cluster housing. i Gartner said the statistics have nothing to do with lot size. There is very little in the statistics to convince her that lot price would go down. Pierce said he would not say that lot price would go down. The thing they were attempting to point out is that new techniques must be used to provide affordable housing. Torjesen agreed that lower cost housing is needed but pointed out that most of those in the room did not start out with a new house. You cannot find old housing in a new sub- urb. Redpath said his children cannot afford to live in Eden Prairie we have zoned our kids right out. Barker noted Eden Prairie was the least expensive place to buy a new home when he bought his home in the 1-50s, The very things that allowed him to buy in Eden Prairie are the things which will keep his children from being able to buy here. Torjesen said by reducing garages, driveways, etc, will have a greater impact than will density. Bearman asked what it would take for a couple to buy a home today -- two jobs , no. family -- density alone will not do it. Opheim said there are some things which can be controlled by the City -- garages can be built later; basement homes with the rest to come later; and taxing policy which recently chatnged and makes the holding costs very expensive. 1 i JOINT MEETING -3- September 1 , 1981 Fenzel said the statistics are very interesting whether one agrees with them or not. If the City is to have an impact on the cost of housing, then the City must determine where that impact lies. The Council would be interested in form- ing a Task Force--volunteer members of the Planning Commission , Development Com- mission, Human Rights & Services Commission , Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission, Council member(s) , and any citizen who wishes to participate -- who r could study that subject for a specified period of time and then provide a report to the community so we can all be better informed on this issue and how we can attack the problem from a community standpoint. The consensus was to go ahead with the Task Force. i III. DISCUSSION ON PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDATIONS Penzel stated the concern of the Council recently has been with the voting record of the Planning Commissioners. The Council has not been able to discern from the Minutes of the meetings why Commissioners have or have not been voting on certain iteidt,. This has not helped the Council in their deliberations. Hallett said the concern is legitimate and he noted at the last meeting people who voted "no" gave a clarifying reason. Bearman said a reason can be required and will be noted; this will be done with abstentions also. z Penzel asked what the Commission' s perception of the Guide Plan is; his own being that the Commission regards it as unchangeable, while he personally perceives it to be a guide which can be adjusted as circumstances warrant. Gartner feels there has to be a reason for the change. Sutliff doesn't think change can be forced. Barker noted the Guide Plan is used by people who are moving into an area and is relied on by them; any changes must be done after very responsible consideration. Penzel said it is not a land use plan, but one which identifies concepts thought to be appropriate at the time of adoption. Circumstances can change things. The Zoning Ordinance specifies land use. Barker recalled how many arguments in the community had resulted from spot zoning. Torjesen said much of the land in the City if based on a two-price system: one price based on how it is shown in the Guide Plan, the other based on "if we can get the Guide Plan amended. " Redpath said the Guide Plan is a two-edged sword; the person who has lived here for ten or more years knows about the Guide Plan, while the newcomer does not know it exists -- this provides for problems with development. Gartner said if develop- ment of the Major Center Area (MCA) is a goal , then changing the Guide Plan to allow development of MCA-type activities outside that area because land is cheaper departs from this and we might as well forget the Guide Plan and the MCA. Penzel said unless the transportation system is provided, it won't matter anyway. Opheim stated the market place will determine the value -- there are not two prices , as Torjesen suggests, because if there is to be a change in zoning or the Guide Plan, the sale is contingent on the change being made and the price is based on that. Bearman noted the Development Commission's Resolution which specifically addressed support of development of the Major Center Area and the completion of Schooner Boulevard. IV. NEW BUSINESS Pierce requested the Task Force be given a specific charge. The consensus was "What situations have to exist to bring affordable housing to Eden Prairie" should be addressed. V. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Barker moved, seconded by Bearman, to adjourn the. meeting at 7:23 p.m. Motion carried unanimously.