City Council - 09/11/1975 APPROVED
MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE CITY COUNCIL
SEPTIIdBER 11, 1975 7:30 PM, Vo Tech School
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: William Bye
Sidney Pauly s'
Wolfgang Penzel
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COUNCIL STAFF PRESENT: City Manager Roger Ulstad
Recording Secy.Belinda Vee
I . PUBLIC HEARING ON FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT'S MASTER PLAN
Councilman Penzel opened the Public Hearing and introduced
Mr. Tom O' Brien, a consultant to the MAC, who explained the
plans for Flying Cloud Airport. Mr. O'Brien stated the I-SAC
is planning to upgrade Flying Cloud from a utility airportto a * `
basic transport airport, however, this did not mean large
aircraft would be using- this field. The plans are to expand
Flying Cloud, but still keep it in this general category. He
stated the 14AC wanted to get citizen imput and this was the
reason for the public hearing.
O' Brien stated they would extend two of the run-gays under
Alternative A-1, the East-41'est run way would be extended from
3200 to 4100 feet and the North-South run-way from 2700-3100 feet.
He briefly explained the various alternatives and stated that A-1
had received a lot of favorable comment. He said the business-
men favored Alternative B-1, but expressed an interest in A-1. : 5
O'Brien stated the ]S= has not made a decision as yet and they
want the opinions of businessmen, citizens, Council members and
Planning Commission members.
Dr. David Braslau, a consultant to the MAC, ex lained the over- A
view of existing facilities with regard to: (1� Topogra hy,
(2) Soil, (3 ) Geology,, (4) Vegetation, ( 5) Wildlife, (6� Water
Resources and ( 7) Air Resources and also the impact by Airport
e ansion with regard to: ( 1) Soils and Geology, (2) Vegetation,
(3) Water Quality, (4) Wildlife, and ( 5) Air Quality. He stated
they recommended Alternative A-1 as the best alternative.
Mr. Robert Einsweiler, Planning Consultant, explained noise
factor. He said this is a very quiet environment and you will
notice the increase in noise much more readily. Also, he
explained noise is measured differently by various agencies.
The State looks at noisiest hour, they look at average annual
noise, and people tend to look at noisiest aircraft. The State
and Federal government are concerned about noise when it reaches
a level where it will affect health. Most standards affecting
noise are anchored in issue of health. The basic transport airport
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Minutes -2- September 11, 1975
I. PUBLIC HEARING ON FLYING CLOUD. . . ( Cont' d. )
would generate more noise than is presently being generated.
He explained some new jets are quieter than some of the two-
engine planes. Mr. Einsweiler said the FAA operates the towers
and navigational aids, the pilot has considerable freedom, 141AC
has some responsibility and authority, but no single control, b
the Metro Council has some control, City has authority to
control land use - the mosaic has to fit together and it takes a
team operation on what the operational procedures should be.
Mr. Claude Schmidt, MAC, explained any schemes involving jets k
would not be totally acceptable to the people of Eden Prairie .
He stated they want to improve some things at Flying Cloud
for the safety of both Eden Prairie and the people Flying over
Eden Prairie . He stated they don't set policy, but merely make
recommendations and they are recommending Alternative A-1. They
need imput from City Council and would like their wishes expressed
to them. He said if the Master Plan is approved, it will go
through an orderly process of development. They hope to make
one of the East.":est Run ways primary. He said all night-time
operations would be on southern E-W runway and extending the runway
to 4100 feet would .bring. in jets, but didn't envision a deluge
of jets.
Mrs. Norma Schee, Planning & Zoning Commission, stated she didn't
understand the book she read and is not an expert on this matter.
She said she did not understand sound monitoring. She then
presented the 7-point recommendation made by the Planning
Commission at their August 25, 1975 meeting.
Councilman Bye stated he lives about as far away from Flying
Cloud as you can in Eden Prairie and will speak as a Council
member, not as a person with a vested interest. He said he
was interested in plans that provide alternatives where one
has to accept one of the alternatives. There are a couple of
other alternatives - one is Plan 0 , stay just as it is and
another is Plan Minus - that airport is less needed due to
less needed aircraft in area. Question need for airport
expansion. He stated his concerns about potential devalua-
tion of property and loss of tax revenue . Eden Prairie is
a fast-growing area in population. What benefits accrue to
Eden Prairie and its' residents compared to the disturbance,
noise, danger, loss of tax revenue and devaluation of property?
Frankly, think it is over-balanced in disfavor of Eden Prairie.
Council members questioned Messrs. Schmidt, Braslau and Einsweiler
regarding plans for territorial expansion, level of navigational
ll1y
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Minutes --3-- September 11, 1975
I. PUBLIC HEARING ON FLYING CLOUD. . . (Cont' d. )
aids, why second generation jets are becoming quieter, whether
drainage would put an undue load on present system and to what
extent City Comprehensive Guide Plan was considered.
Councilman Bye questioned Mr. Schmidt regarding what would happe
n
if nothing was done. Schmidt replied they are trying to update
the Master Plan which will make the airport safer and do not
think there will be any great increase in traffic and the Master
Plan does call for expansion. He further explained jets prefer
a run way of at least 5000 feet.
Mr. Stephen Magnell, 9491 Woodridge Drive , presented a petition
signed by about 1200 residents in opposition to expansion at
Flying Cloud Airport. He stated they opposed noise pollution
and dial not think there would be any economical benefit to
Eden Prairie by this expansion. He said Councilman Bye presented
a position they would feel comfortable with.
Mr. Robert Gartner, 15701 Cedar Ridge Road, stated his concern
about being able to identify low flying planes so they could
be reported. O' Brien explained the planes are numbered on the
side and also to take down time of day and location when
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reporting a low flying aircraft.
Mr. Viallace Hustad, 10525 Bluff Road, expressed his concern
over planes flying in a helter-skelter pattern instead of a
t rectangular flight pattern. Schmidt explained they still do
use the retangular pattern and that they hope to develop some
rules to control this type of flying.
Mr. Al Lange, Flying Cloud Airport, asked "What is value of
airport? The value must be $509000 in property taxes. Some
value in over 200 people being employed there. Some value
in baseball diamonds provided to City. Some value in open
space. There are 14 businesses located there. Value in
school organizations that solicit several tithes a year for
contributions. Value in reverse — there are no children
generated by airport. Businessmen have worked with the MAC
and fire chief in trying to obtain a fire station on Flying
Cloud Airport. Safety Hwy. 494 is safer than Hwy. 169."
He further stated he felt the expansion would benefit Eden
Prairie and that politics is a matter of compromise& etc.
Mr. Dave Rolshaw, Devair, stated he is user of airport and owner
of business. He said the asset value of the airport is that it
is a drawing card for the community, etc.
Mr. John Stuber, American Aviation, Flying Cloud Field, stated
he put first airplane on Flying Cloud Field and has been here
Minutes -4- September 119 1975
I. PUBLIC HEARING ON FLYING CLOUD. . . (Conti d.)
a long time . He said not to blame all low-flying aircraft on
Flying Cloud field as they come from other fields too and he
is all for identifying the low-flying aircraft and trying to
control them.
Mr. Harold Schaitberger, 12880 Pioneer Trail, questioned the
safety of the planned lengthening of the run-way as it will
bring it closer to Hwy. 169. He said he has a business on that
highimray and has watched planes come in so low over it that if
a semi-truck were coming along, there would have been an accident.
Schmidt explained the lengthening of that run way was only a
concept and would have to go through an obstruction study.
Mr. Greg Pe rrington, St. Louis Park, asked when the corner of
Hwy. 169 and Flying Cloud Drive will be improved. Councilman
Penzel explained it is being considered.
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Mr. James Brown, 11551 Riverview Rd. , stated he has seen a lot
of things come and go. ghat we have missed is that"what is
good for General Bullmoose is good for the people" concept is
gone. The people have taken over. They don't have to Live
with noise that someone says they have to live with. Concerned
with .1hat is value of airport y
people . rport - has a variety of values.
Effect it has or people, etc.
Mr. Don Sumner, 13720 Theresa Place, stated he was not home
when the petition was brought by and is impressed by 1200 names,
but appalled at the scare tactics used. He said he did not
think people were informed or understood and that there are
instances of closing an airport where property values fell, etc .
Mr. James Boyce, 14350 Pioneer Trail, explained the drainage
problem that was on Flying Cloud Field a few years ago and how
he was instrumental in getting it corrected, but it was not
with the cooperation of the MAC, etc. x
Mr. Greg Myers, Creekwood Drive, the presentation by the experts
is vague and there is panic by people who do not understand
situation. This is not acceptable - strongly urge specific
answers are obtained before a plan is accepted. Confusion
caused by talking about noise safety - noise is caused by
take-offs. Strongly suggest we see some regulations on flying
procedures, etc.
Mr. Martin Grill, 13600 Pioneer Trail, stated he has been an
eye witness to planes so low that one took the top off a semi.
He lives close to airport and does not mind noise, but does
report low-flying ai.i•craft and the tower has been cooperative
in controlling this.
CCouncilman Bye responded to comments caused by his statement
and explained his position.
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Minutes -5- September 119 1975
I. PUBLIC HEARING ON FLYING CLOUD. . .(Cont' d. )
City Manager Ulstad asked Mr. Einsweiler to explain how, when
no single agency has jurisdiction or authority, do you coordinate c .
four different agencies or levels (FAA, MAC, Metro Council and
Eden Prairie)? Einsweile r explained he doesn't know if there is
a good answer. He stated we just have to keep talking about the
concerns and find a place where everyone is together.
Councilwoman Pauly stated she wanted to thank the MAC and Flying
Cloud representatives (Messrs. Schmidt, O'Brien, Braslau, Einsweiler,
and Mrs. Suez) and Mrs. Schee, Planning Commission, for their spirit
of cooperation, etc. Council members questioned Mr. Schmidt as to
whether the 14AC would accept the Planning Commission's recommenda-
tions and he stated he could not answer that specifically at this
time .
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Bye moved to continue this Public Hearing until October 14, 1975
as he wanted to allow time for the two absent Council members
to express their feelings, Pauly seconded. Bye, Pauly and
Chairman Penzel voted "aye" , motion carried unanimously.
A recess was called for about ten minutes.
II. MID-TERM CENSUS
� City Manager Ulstad explained the mid-term census and how it
would be of benefit to Eden Prairie in terms of more State and
Federal funding. Finance Director France had estimated the
census would help Eden Prairie to qualify for about $209000 to
$242000 additional state aid.
Pauly moved to authorize the City Manager to sendletter to
initiate the census, Bye seconded. Bye, Pauly and Chairman
Penzel voted "aye" , motion carried unanimously.
III.ADJOURNMENT
Bye moved to adjourn at 10: 28 PM, Pauly seconded. Bye, Pauly
and Chairman Penzel voted "aye" , motion carried unanimously and
meeting adjourned.
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