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City Council - 04/07/1998 - Workshop APPROVED MFIWTES CITY COUNCIL/STAFF WORKSHOP PARK SYSTEM NEEDS TUESDAY, APRIL 7, 1998 6:30 PM, HERITAGE ROOM IV 8080 Mitchell Road COUNCILMEMBERS: Mayor Jean Harris, Sherry Butcher- Younghans, Ronald Case, Ross Thorfinnson, Jr. and Nancy Tyra-Lukens CITY COUNCIL STAFF: City Manager Carl J. Jullie, Assistant City Manager Chris Enger, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Bob Lambert, Manager of Recreation Services Laurie Helling, and Council Recorder Jan Nelson I. CALL MEETING TO ORDER Mayor Harris called the meeting to order at 6:40 p.m. All Councilmembers were present. H. DISCUSSION OF FUNDING OPTIONS FOR PARK SYSTEM NEEDS Harris complimented Staff on the materials they prepared for tonight's workshop. She said we need to review the impact on the entire City operation as we are discussing the park system costs and how those will be funded. Lambert said they recognized the need to look at the entire picture including the future operating costs of the projects. He said the Council will be faced with decisions on whether we can afford to buy property in order to preserve certain areas and the issue of whether land in lieu of park fees would be fair on very expensive land. He said some of the athletic associations are setting up funds to help build facilities in the parks. We also need to prioritize all the needs and work with the Parks Commission to give them some direction so they can make the right decisions and recommendations. Harris asked when the School District's next referendum is planned. Lambert said it is planned for the fall of 1999. Harris noted that is a factor we have had to consider in the past when timing our referenda. Harris was pleased to read about the potential partnerships on some of the projects because we need to encourage those types of relationships even though it brings certain liabilities. She found it difficult to see which of these projects was the most important because they all seemed to be important. She was also concerned about what is not currently on the list that will be added in the next two to four years. There are conflicting needs and interests on some, and we need to sort out those issues and then prioritize in order to maximize the resources. CITY COUNCIL/STAFF WORKSHOP MINUTES April 7, 1998 Page 2 Lambert said the community surveys we have used have been extremely accurate in determining what people support. For example the surveys predicted the support for Miller Park and the natural resources referendum. He thought it is important to do some basic education prior to the referendum so that people understand the issues and the costs. We have a year to do a lot of assessment and education not only for the parks but for other needs the City faces. Butcher-Younghans thought people do not realize how much land the City owns. Tyra- Lukens thought it is difficult to visualize because some of the land isn't accessible. Tyra-Lukens asked if municipal golf courses cover the costs to build and operate them. Lambert said they make money after the costs are paid if you get the land free and just pay for the course development and operating costs. He thought it is unlikely that we will get an 18-hole regulation course around here; however, it would be possible to do an 18-hole short course with an extensive driving range. He thought such a facility near the airport would provide a great buffer, but it would probably be a revenue bond-type project. Regarding the proposed Citizens' Committee, Harris asked if we would select from the one we currently have or initiate another. She was concerned that the committee members not all be part of an athletic group. Enger said the community forum was a group that was representative of the community. He asked what is the appropriate way to determine what the needs for the portion of the park services that are not oriented to special needs. Tyra-Lukens thought the Citizens' Committee is important but she thought Staff could do some preliminary work on costs and operating expenses for each item. Butcher-Younghans thought we have to plan far out in the future, but we learned last time around that people are really present-based. She was concerned about the appropriate process to get the answers to the questions we want to pose. Case thought there is some merit to the traditional method of getting facts. He would like to know what is typical for a city of 65,000. The danger is that in 20 years we are a different type of population. He thought getting the facts would be a Staff role, and we could get a snapshot of what the city would look like if it is like a typical city of 65,000. Lambert said we could report on national standards for how many fields per 1000 population or how many pools, etc.; however, he would caution the Council to not rely on national standards for what Eden Prairie needs. He thought we have to rely on what our needs are and what the community is willing to pay for. Case could see the value of researching the national standards and compiling the statistics from 10 or 12 similar cities in the metropolitan area to use for rationale to not do certain projects. We could use the comparative data to affirm what we decide to do. Butcher-Younghans liked the idea of partnership with other communities. CITY COUNCIU/STAFF WORKSHOP MINUTES April 7, 1998 Page 3 Harris thought the whole issue of demographics is very important. We have to integrate trends with whatever is currently in place. She asked for discussion on the process Staff proposed for getting to some of the answers. Jullie noted the special interest groups are going to want to be included and we will need to include them somehow. Tyra-Lukens asked if they would be the ones that are used as resources. Lambert didn't know how we could educate 100 people on the needs of the athletic associations. He noted that we found out from the forums that people are concerned about what happened today and last week but not about the future. He thought it would have to be a six to seven month process during which the citizen's group would meet with the associations and Staff. It would probably take two to three meetings to look at the map to see the plans and determine where the gaps are. Harris thought the group might be made up of 25 people, and that could include representation of the athletic associations. The process of educating them is very important, otherwise our entire process is driven by special interest groups. She thought at this stage we need to decide where we will go with the diminishing amount of dollars available, the higher cost of capital improvement needs and how it all fits together. Swaggert thought we could use the base of community members from the focus groups and send a letter to them regarding seven-eight month project. We could then choose the new group from the ones who indicate they are interested in serving. Tyra-Lukens asked if we would tell them it is regarding a possible park referendum. Swaggert said we could do that; however, it might be better just to discuss the duration of the project. Harris thought where we are going with this should be the last piece to be developed. Case was confused as to the purpose of the citizens' group. He thought we need to know what the general population sees as the needs and what they are willing to pay for. He was not sure we want to educate them but now it sounds like more of a study group. Thorfinnson thought the purpose would be to have some members of the group that don't have a vested interest. He would like to see the committee made up of people who have knowledge of the specific needs of athletic associations but also citizens who do not have specialized needs. He thought we should do the needs assessment survey first. Butcher-Younghans was concerned about having a built-in bias. Thorfinnson thought we need to examine the possibilities. Harris didn't want to put the referendum out there first. We need to focus on what the needs are and then, secondly, how we pay for them. Harris thought the outline gets to where we need to go. She thought the Public Hearing comes near the end of the process. Thorfinnson thought we may need to shift our thinking to develop a Capital Improvements Program for the parks system. We could do a needs assessment, determine the costs of those needs, and then put an ad hoc committee together CITY COUNCIL/STAFF WORKSHOP MENUTES April 7, 1998 Page 4 to develop the list of improvements. We can decide what we will do and how we will pay for it after we determine what the costs and the on-going costs are. M. REVIEW OF PROPOSAL FROM LARRY FRANSEN Lambert asked for feedback and direction about the letter from Larry Fransen. Harris asked if we could carry this forward as she thought we need to spend some time discussing it. Jullie noted there is a very short window on this proposal. Lambert thought we could tell Mr. Fransen we are interested but it will be part of the needs review process. Thorfinnson asked if there is a potential for us to buy the entire property and then sell off some of it to help pay for the purchase. Lambert said it would be difficult because of the problems in providing an access to the hilltop lot. Thorfinnson thought it might make more sense if we could recoup part of the cost. Enger noted that there would be a question if anyone else could buy it and develop it if we can't. Harris thought Mr. Lambert's suggestion made sense because we don't have enough information at this point. Lambert said he will get back to Mr. Fransen suggesting he put it on the market. In the meantime we can get an estimate for putting the road in to the property. IV. SET DATE FOR JOINT PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP V. ADJOURNMENT Mayor Harris adjourned the meeting at 7:25 p.m.