HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 01/10/2019 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY,JANUARY 10, 2019 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
HERITAGE ROOM I
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair, Keith Tschohl; Braj Agrawal, Bob
Barker, Daniel Dorson; Dan Kiely; Kurt
Schendel
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Mike Wilson
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES PRESENT: Rahul Bhaysar, Charles Bjorling
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES ABSENT: Lucas Lorenz
STAFF: Kevin Schmieg, Acting EP Fire Chief; Jan
Curielli, City Recorder
GUESTS: Mike Harder, MAC Reliever Airport
Environmental Administrator; Mat Knutson,
Terracon Consultants Inc.; Jennifer Lewis,
MAC Representative; Gary Schmidt, MAC
Director, Reliever Airports; Michael
Lawrence, Premier Aviation; Laura
Herrmann, Pilot from St. Bonifacius; Dean
Cowdery, Resident; Brian Reid, Resident
I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Chair Tschohl called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Schmieg distributed copies of the revised agenda.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
Dean Cowdery, Eden Prairie resident, and Brian Reid, 10009 Kiersten Place, said they
were here to learn more about the Commission but might have comments or questions as
the meeting progresses.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY, OCTOBER 11, 2018
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MOTION: Dorson moved, seconded by Agrawal, to approve the minutes of the
October 11, 2018, meeting as published. Motion carried 6-0.
V. ENVIRONMENT 101—MAC ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS/TERRACON
CONSULTANTS INC.
Mike Harder, MAC Reliever Airport Environmental Administrator, introduced Mat
Knutson, Sr. Project Manager/Environmental Engineer for Terracon Consultants, Inc.
Mr. Harder and Mr. Knutson gave a joint PowerPoint presentation on Airport
Environmental 101.
Mr. Harder reviewed the agenda for their presentation. Mr. Knutson reviewed the
airport/aviation environmental topics covered by the presentation including:
fuel/petroleum spills and leaks; fuel storage; stormwater impacts; air quality;
waste/hazardous waste/asbestos; natural resources impact; tenant activities; and noise.
He noted they will focus on all of the topics except noise which was covered separately at
the October 2018 Commission meeting
Mr. Knutson reviewed the impact on stormwater and/or groundwater activities that use
fuel and petroleum products at the airport and explained the remediation efforts used if a
spill of the products occurs. He explained the types of aircraft deicing and anti-icing
activities at airports, with glycol based fluids used for aircraft deicing, urea or chemical
deicers for pavement deicing, and sand to increase surface friction.
Dorson asked if there is much deicing of aircraft at FCM this winter. Mr. Knutson replied
the reliever airports don't normally have aircraft deicing activities, except for special
occasions such as the Super Bowl. He noted MSP uses over a million gallons of deicing
fluid annually; however, they also have a system to capture the runoff.
Barker asked what they do for pavement deicing at FCM. Mr. Harder replied they use
several different types of material, depending on the weather event. The material used is
determined by the maintenance crew. Barker asked if it is just used on runways. Mr.
Harder replied it is used on both taxiways and runways. Mr. Schmidt noted sand is used
almost everywhere at the airport.
Mr. Knutson reviewed the environmental impact of industrial activities by tenants at the
airport and noted airport authority often has limited control of tenant activity. He listed
the environmental regulatory agencies that are involved in airport activities including the
Environmental Protection Agency, the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, the
Department of Natural Resources, the Minnesota Department of Health, and many others.
Stormwater facilities are one of the primary receptors of pollutants from airport activities.
He pointed out the complex environment of water bodies that receive stormwater
drainage from the airport activities, and noted there are a number of stormwater permits
for the airport.
Mr. Harder reviewed the Best Management Practices (BMPs) used by MAC and tenants
to minimize the impact of airport activities on the environment, including as employee
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training and operational BMPs to limit potential for impacts at the source, spill kits and
spill response procedures, and used oil tanks to facilitate responsible used oil disposal.
Mr. Knutson said MAC staff utilize Enviance, a third-party software, to input stormwater
inspections, UST/AST inspections and facility inspections. The MAC has a custom built
application called ECP (Environmental Compliance Program) to track tenant activity and
to document audits conducted by MAC staff.
Kiely asked what an inspection consists of. Mr. Harder replied it depends on the activity.
The Minnesota PCA and other agencies review the records of our compliance on a
regular basis. The FBO's work with the PCA on their activities. The ECP software is
critical to tracking and management and provides a recorded log of each tenant at the
airport.
Mr. Cowdery asked if the software is used to manage noise at the airport. Mr. Schmidt
replied noise management at the airport is on a voluntary basis. Ms Herrmann said she is
a pilot at FCM and helps to organize pilot education sessions. Twice a year they hold a
session to learn about the noise abatement procedures. She noted Mr. Cowdery would be
welcome to attend one of those meetings. Mr. Cowdery said he believed many of the jet
aircraft flights are not following the recommended takeoff procedures, and he would
guess very few of the big jet pilots attend the education sessions.
Dorson asked if the anti-icing material used would just breakdown and evaporate. Mr.
Harder said staff is required to do monthly inspections and quarterly sampling, and there
are certain benchmark limits on pollutants. Dorson asked if most of the material would go
into stormwater drains. He also thought a lot would show up after a snow storm and
asked if they see evidence of excessive usage above the standards based on the timing of
the quarterly samples. Mr. Harder replied they do see elevated levels in the spring.
Dorson asked how quickly the material dissipates and if they would capture a spike in
their testing. Mr. Knutson replied acetates and urea are readily degradable and generally
degrade quickly in grassy areas. Pavement deicing followed by snow melting can
produce higher levels; and some of that could end up as stormwater runoff.
Dorson asked if we have stayed within the limits at the airport. Mr. Harder responded we
have been at or below the threshold levels. He noted there are ten active industrial
stormwater permits at FCM. Dorson asked if there are any issues with trouble spots or
certain tenants regarding stormwater. Mr. Harder replied they constantly communicate
with the tenants and operators and provide training exercises to help tenants better
understand the system.
Barker said it sounds like there are protocols in place to deal with spills and asked if there
have been events at FCM and what the actions would be required for remediation. Mr.
Harder replied anything over five gallons must be reported to State authorities. We learn
from incidents that have occurred and train our maintenance staff to respond to situations.
The MAC works very closely with airport managers. Barker asked if Mr. Harder believed
the tenants are actively trained and tuned in to the issues. Mr. Harder believed they are,
but his office does need to share information with the operators and act as a resource for
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them. Mr. Schmidt said he was aware of only two incidents of spills over five gallons in
the last five years, one of which involved the PCA and required significant excavation to
remediate.
Agrawal asked about the net result from the Super Bowl. Mr. Harder did not think it
could have gone smoother,primarily because they put together a game plan for
designated deicing locations and for the sweepers. The snowstorm on Saturday was a
learning experience, as were Sunday's non-stop operations. Mr. Schmidt noted they used
vacuum sweepers to collect the deicing material at the deicing stations.
Ms Lewis thanked Mr. Harder and Mr. Knutson for their presentation. She noted the
Commission asked for this presentation as an educational item, and both Mr. Harder and
Mr. Knutson have offered to come back if there are other pieces of environmental
education the Commissioners would like to cover.
Tschohl asked if Mr. Harder's office does any monitoring of air quality impacts. Mr.
Harder said they do monitoring at MSP but have not reached the criteria for the level of
industrial activity at FCM. They periodically assess reliever airports to see if they meet
the criteria for monitoring air quality.
VI. STANDING DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. NOISE REPORT—MAC
Ms Lewis reviewed the Reliever Airport Operations and Noise Complaint Report
for the fourth quarter of 2018. She noted that FCM had 28.3% of the total reliever
airport operations but received 58.1% of the noise complaints. The noise
complaints for fourth quarter 2018 were nearly double what was reported in the
fourth quarter of 2017.
Ms Lewis said there were five top spots that reported 78% of the complaints. If
those five top spots are removed from the data, there was not a great deal of
growth in the number of complaints. Two of the top spots carried over from 2017
with three new top spots in 2018. She said the MAC wants to increase efforts in
education to spread more detailed information and get more in tune with
individuals who are reporting complaints. Her office is starting a new outreach
program in 2019 to increase efforts to reach realtors,homeowners,pilots and
operators. There are two regularly scheduled briefings during the year to talk
about the noise abatement program. There is discussion about having more open
house type communication forums with mixed groups of people and covering a
variety of subjects. She will report back to the Commission on the dates for the
meetings and the results of the meetings. She asked Commission members to give
her ideas about meeting places, groups and topics to be included.
Kiely asked if the group of residents that attended the October meeting were
followed up with because that might be one possible group. Tschohl suggested
looking at individuals and homeowner associations. Barker asked about getting a
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list of contacts for homeowner associations in Eden Prairie in order to
communicate with homeowners that way. Dorson thought we should at least get
some of the key ones such as the new neighborhoods around C. H. Robinson. We
might have someone go out on a Saturday afternoon to the new Flying Cloud field
observation area to act as an airport ambassador. Barker thought that area is a
comfortable space and is a good example of something where the MAC and the
community worked together to build a space for viewing activity at the airport.
Ms Lewis said we have a regular process of communicating with households that
have the highest levels of complaints. She welcomed any suggestions for events
where her office could come out in advance of the activity to get in touch with
homeowners. Her goal is to finalize the plan by the end of February. They will try
things out, see what works best, and then fine tune and customize it.
Dorson noted recently we have received complaints mostly from the area to the
east of the airport and asked what the departure plan is for aircraft heading east.
Tschohl explained the details of the departure plan for those aircraft and noted
those flights are quickly handed off to MSP. Mr. Cowdery said the takeoff
procedures advised by the MAC involve a sharp turn over the area where the old
dump was located;however, that is not what happens. He noted the pattern on
flight tracker is scattered, and takeoffs are the worst. He thought this is an
education issue with people that fly out of here in jets to encourage them to use
takeoff procedures.
Tschohl said most jets operate under federal procedures and cannot fly a tight
departure plan. The noise abatement plan is a voluntary procedure. The reality is
there is a certain radius of turn for each aircraft. Mr. Cowdery said the problem is
that violates the final agreement with the MAC and Eden Prairie, the purpose of
which was to allow for the airport expansion with the understanding that noise
would not increase. He noted ten years ago there was a fraction of the noise there
is now, especially at night. Mr. Schmidt responded the final agreement is different
from the noise abatement plan, and the noise abatement plan is voluntary.
Mr. Cowdery asked if there is a reason why the noise levels have increased in the
last few years. Dorson asked about the operation levels in 2007 and 2008. Tschohl
said 2007 was a quiet time during the recession. Mr. Schmidt said the growth in
the general aviation industry has been in jet traffic. Mr. Cowdery commented he
thought the solution is in education, and his question is how do we reach the
operators of large jets to make sure they comply with the preferred take-off
procedures as best they can with their particular equipment. Mr. Schmidt said the
pilots who come into the airport are responsible for learning the procedures. Mr.
Cowdery asked if the problem is we are allowing larger aircraft to land at FCM.
Mr. Schmidt said limits to the size of aircraft were included in the final
agreement. We do have an occasional violation of the restrictions on that.
Barker noted the Commission has put more emphasis on getting information on
violations. In recent years Stage 2 aircraft have been obsoleted, and those aircraft
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were the noisy ones. There are some trends that are positive because aircraft in
general are getting quieter. Mr. Schmidt agreed there is a significant difference in
noise levels between the new Stage 4 or Stage 4+ aircraft and the older models.
Mr. Cowdery suggested the simplest solution is to have an education program for
the pilots with the takeoff procedures at the facility. Kiely asked what percentage
of the complaints are about local tenants versus transient ones. Ms Lewis replied
they have not correlated the data on that because the owner of the aircraft isn't
always the operator. She would guess the majority of complaints would be from
base operations here. Kiely said that meant it is somewhat within our control to
communicate with those operators. Ms Lewis said her office sends letters to
operators who generate a complaint explaining the final agreement and
encouraging them to get in touch with her to get more information. Her office
publishes and distributes material to operators.
Mr. Schmidt said nighttime flights are generally based here and are related to
emergency flights. Agrawal noted most of the community is not aware of the
number of those emergency flights that occur from FCM.
Mr. Reid asked if this information could be posted on the City website. Ms Lewis
said the MAC publishes the noise report. She brings it to the Commission every
meeting,but the real detail is best viewed online. She believed the City publishes
the link to get the data. Schmieg said he will check on that.
Mr. Schmidt asked if the residents have noticed jet departures at a particular time.
Mr. Cowdery replied it often occurs in the evening hours and from 5:00 to 7:00
a.m. Mr. Schmidt said they will make more efforts to reach out to the jet
operators.
Schmieg asked if the noise mitigation in construction required in newer
developments has caused the number of complaints to decrease. Ms Lewis
responded people in the newer developments seem to surprised that the airport is
there and operates 24 hours a day. There could be better education for realtors to
be clear and factual about the airport operations. She noted the people she talks to
complain about their houses shaking and being woken up so it is not often a
complaint about sounds that could be mitigated by construction.
Tschohl asked about the percentage of those in newer developments that have
significant issues with noise. Ms Lewis replied some people feel distress from
specific sounds while others have distress about it interfering with activities they
are trying to do, so there are different thresholds. Her office hears more from
those on the west side of the airport about the noise and shaking than they do from
people on the east side. Mr. Reid said he lives on the east side, and said he notices
a difference in noise levels between different planes and their elevations. He does
get some house rattling sometimes. He asked what the restrictions are for takeoff
procedures because some of the aircraft seem to be much lower over his home
than others. Agrawal said it would be helpful for him to go on line to look at the
time and date so we could go to the operator. Mr. Reid said he has hesitated to do
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that because he was not sure how effective any complaints would be. Ms Lewis
said we look for trends and patterns and try to match a complaint to a flight to get
information to use in their analysis. They want to know if we are seeing a trend
occurring and can identify something to change the trend. She noted the MAC is
not able to prevent access to the airport. This is a very complex issue and it would
be helpful for residents to report specific incidents.
Mr. Reid asked if, with today's technology, a measurement instrument on top of a
house would be helpful. Kiely said Ms Lewis can make a connection to a flight if
she knows the location and time of the incident. Mr. Reid said a lot of information
may be missed if you rely on the public to reach out about an incident. Ms Lewis
said her office is a resource, and they facilitate information sharing. They are part
of the community and care about what is happening in the community.
Tschohl asked if the two residents have used the MAC flight tracker to check on
flights. Mr. Cowdery said he can't always do that. He can estimate when the noise
occurred. He did use it today, and it was interesting to see the information but it is
not helpful in resolving a problem. He still thought it is an education issue for
pilots and the operations. Mr. Reid said he has used the tracker in the past. He
said he would not necessarily stop what he is doing to make a complaint to
identify a specific incident. He agreed it is the jet activity and the extension of the
runway that has caused the increase. It depends on how they take off and is a non-
issue if they fly over the landfill. He said in his neighborhood it depends on how
they bank and the elevation they are at.
Kiely asked if there is any communication with the tower for takeoff instructions.
Mr. Lawrence said he sees the operations on a daily basis and with jets the
altitude is key. If they don't have the right elevation, it is because they are told not
to by Air Traffic Control. MSP tells the tower the takeoff pattern and within 30
seconds of takeoff FCM switches control to MSP. In addition, there are a few
older jets operating out of FCM and those are the noisiest; however, the older jets
are rapidly being made obsolete. Mr. Cowdery said that may be the answer as to
why different aircraft are noisier. Dorson noted those are the operators to educate.
Mr. Reid noted the older jets were around before the runway was extended. Mr.
Lawrence said there are definitely more jet operations now.
B. ORDINANCE 97 VIOLATIONS--MAC
C. AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS AND RUNWAY INCURSIONS--MAC
Mr. Schmidt reported there were a couple of violations in October, none in
November and two or three in December. Tschohl asked if there is any correlation
of those operations to complaints received. Mr. Schmidt said they looked into that
last year, and there was no complaint correlation.
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D. AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT UPDATES--MAC
Mr. Schmidt reported construction of the north parallel runway was completed in
October. Ms Herrmann commented the runway is much smoother, and it is so
much easier to see and know she is lined up as she should be.
E. JOINT AIRPORT ZONING BOARD (JAZB) UPDATES
Tschohl said Vice Chair Barker attended this week's meeting of the JAZB. Barker
explained the State has certain prescribed zoning, and the JAZB is asking for
some exceptions to the zoning for certain areas of the airport property. The
process was started over ten years ago, and the final public input hearing will be
held at the end of February. They worked with MnDOT to arrive at what is
acceptable use of land parcels around the airport.
Tschohl asked if we expect to see any reduction in conflicts with development
and noise impacts. Mr. Schmidt replied the question is how we would use the
property and includes ideas about what should be developed on the property.
Barker said a lot of good statistical and scientific data from other areas of the
country was used to put together a model for FCM. Mr. Schmidt said we used the
data to help determine where the safety zones should be. Tschohl said he was
surprised by the small numbers of residents attending the JAZB meetings in view
of the new development around the airport and the large amount of interest in the
airport ten years ago.
F. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
1. 2018 FAA Reauthorization Act
a. Changes to sUAS (drone) regulations
i. Sec 348— Carriage of Property for Compensation or Hire
Tschohl said copies of the regulations were included in the
Commission agenda. He noted there are a couple of areas of interest to
the Commission including two changes to the drone regulations
effective in 2019 that may impact the City and its residents. It is
unclear in the Sec. 348 whether that law will allow communities to
apply restrictions to package deliveries by companies such as Amazon.
We will want to watch for package delivery to begin in Eden Prairie.
ii. Sec 349—Exceptions for Limited Recreational Operations
Tschohl said drones will now have to get clearance from the tower to
operate in air space around FCM. It requires anyone operating a drone
to pass some kind of safety test,possibly to be provided by one of the
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model aircraft associations. There will be some level of responsibility
for operators of drones.
Barker noted there is a benefit from the airport being located in Eden
Prairie because there is a much higher level of regulation in the air
space around FCM or for any airport.
Ms Hermann noted there are studies and operations being conducted to
simulate emergency delivery of human organs by drones. Mr. Schmidt
commented that may be the only way to deliver medical assistance in
some areas.
b. Noise and Environmental Impact Studies
Tschohl said there are a number of different studies being done over the
next 12-18 months that will have a potential impact on the environment if
they are enacted. Mr. Schmidt said there is a big push to develop
alternative fuels in response to the impact of climate change.
i. Sec 173—Alternative Airplane Noise Metric Evaluation
ii. Sec 174—Noise Exposure Maps
iii. Sec 177—Lead Emissions
VII. OTHER OLD BUSINESS
None.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
A. RETIREMENT OF CHIEF ESBENSEN
Tschohl thanked Chief Esbensen for his service on behalf of the Commission. He
was a very good resource for the Commission.
B. REVIEW OF CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP PRESENTATION
Tschohl said Mr. Barker and he will get together to prepare the presentation for
the workshop that will be held on January 22.
C. UPCOMING EVENTS AND TOPICS FOR FUTURE FCAAC MEETINGS
1. 2019 City Council Workshop (January 22)
2. Minneapolis TRACON Tour (Date TBD)
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Tschohl said we will try to schedule the TRACON tour after the Federal
shutdown has ended.
3. Review 2035 Flyins! Cloud LTCP Draft (Date TBD)
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
A. NEXT COMMISSION MEETING—April 11, 2019
MOTION: Barker moved, seconded by Kiely, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried
6-0. Chair Tschohl adjourned the meeting at 9:00 P.M.