HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 10/11/2018 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 11, 2018 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
HERITAGE ROOM I
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair, Keith Tschohl; Daniel Dorson; Dan
Kiely; Kurt Schendel
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Vice Chair Bob Barker, Braj Agrawal, Mike
Wilson
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES PRESENT: Rahul Bhaysar, Charles Bjorling, Lucas
Lorenz
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES ABSENT: None
STAFF: George Esbensen, Fire Chief; Jan Curielli,
City Recorder
GUEST: Gene Reindel, HMMH; Jennifer Lewis,
MAC Representative; Gary Schmidt, MAC
Director, Reliever Airports; Marcia Kerwin,
Resident; Judy Berglund, Resident; Steve
Berglund, Resident; Dr. Eimad Ahmmad,
Resident; Laura Herrmann, St. Bonifacius
I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Chair Tschohl called the meeting to order at 7:02 P.M.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Dorson moved, seconded by Kiely, to approve the agenda as published.
Motion carried 4-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
Marcia Kerwin, 10539 Spyglass Drive, said she has lived in her home for seven years.
Over the seven years there has been a significant increase in noise levels, including noise
from flights in the middle of the night. She said flights seem to turn towards the river
over her street and often causes vibration in the house. She has filed many complaints
online. She questioned whether such flights in the middle of the night are legal. She
believed the noise levels have begun to affect the real estate market in her neighborhood.
There seems to have been a major increase in aircraft traffic over her home in recent
years.
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Judy Berglund, 10542 Spyglass Drive, was concerned about the nighttime flights and the
noise levels. She said there was a flight at 4:35 a.m. this morning that flew right over
their house.
Dorson asked if shutting down the north parallel runway has moved traffic further to the
south. Schendel said the north parallel is closed at that time of day so traffic would use
the south parallel. He noted the winds and weather the last few days have forced
everyone to take off to the east.
Tschohl said one of the things this Commission has seen is that aircraft activity is related
to the economy. Traffic at FCM was down quite a bit during the recession, but has
gradually increased since that time. FCM does not serve commercial traffic, and there is
no scheduled airline service out of FCM. There is a substantial use of turbo prop and
business jet type aircraft. In many cases those operators have the right to access the
airport 24 hours a day. There has been a law in place for nearly 30 years that a city cannot
restrict the time of day or arbitrarily restrict aircraft traffic if they receive public funding.
The City of Eden Prairie and the Metropolitan Airports Commission (MAC) have been
dealing with this issue for a very long time. The MAC does have a voluntary noise
abatement program that works with the on-site operators here. Use of the airport at night
is discouraged, but sometimes there are business needs for flights in the middle of the
night. There are also some organ donation flights from FCM. Because of the way the
FAA and the Federal government determine how operations at the airport can be run, the
hands of the City and the MAC are tied in being able to prohibit operations during the
nighttime.
Mr. Schmidt said the tower generally closes at 10:00 p.m., so it is not open 24 hours a
day. FCM is an uncontrolled airport at night. Most of the time at night there won't be
aircraft in the air in a traffic pattern,but there may be aircraft departures. Most of the
4:30-5:00 a.m. departures are related to organ transplant flights. He noted Flying Cloud
Airport relies on grant money for their construction needs.
Ms Kerwin asked how much money comes from grants. Schmidt replied they try to get
90% in grants. The grant money does not come out of general tax money but there is a
trust fund based on revenue from those who use the system. There are fuel taxes for
anyone who uses the system. The FAA disburses the funds to help with construction
projects at airports across the country, basing disbursements on the percentage of
enplanements by region. We are required to apply for that funding yearly.
Ms Berglund said she has noticed in the summer months the flight training aircraft circle
their house and asked if that activity could be done further to the south. Tschohl replied it
all comes back to traffic pattern operations. The City has worked with the MAC and the
FAA tower to move the flow around. The tower needs to keep the south runway open for
bigger aircraft, which means flight training activity must be shifted to the north side of
the airport. Mr. Schmidt noted there is a pilot shortage across the country, so there has
been an increase in flight training activity at FCM. Ms Berglund asked if those flights
could fly to the west side where there aren't as many residents. Tschohl said the west side
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October 11, 2018
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has also filled in over the last few years, and the wind direction determines the path for
arrivals and departures.
Dr. Eimad Ahmmad, 9751 Laforet Drive, said he lives on the west side, and there are
times when his house shakes as an aircraft flies near his house.
Tschohl noted we sometimes see more complaints about flight training in the summer
time. There is a requirement for flight training at night, and many times that training
cannot start until after 10:00 p.m. during the summer months.
Ms Kerwin said she has heard planes that need to take off in the nighttime pay a fine to
be able to do that. Tschohl replied there is a Federal access rule that states flights must
have access. Mr. Schmidt noted most of the corporate flights don't want to fly early, so
most of the business flights in the middle of the night have a requirement to leave at that
time because of business time requirements.
Dorson asked about sending warning letters to operators. Jennifer Lewis, MAC
representative, said the MAC collects information and tries to correlate complaints to
operations. When an operation is identified, we send a letter to that operator. The letter is
meant to share the details of the noise abatement plan; however, those procedures are
voluntary. We promote use of the procedures for operations, especially at night. There are
many operators that do follow the procedures. Generally, those who operate at night will
almost always get a letter from the MAC when they generate a complaint. We ask the
operator to get in touch with us to explain why they operated during the night time hours.
Ms Kerwin said it sounds as if the letter is a spank on the hand. She noted she is coming
away with the idea that the Commission cares and wants to do the right thing,but there
are no teeth behind it. Tschohl said this is a battle the City has been fighting for a long
time. There were discussions at City Council meetings 40 years ago about the impact of
the use of the airport. This is part of the growing pains of being a successful metropolitan
area, and is often an inconvenience and a disruption to the neighbors. This commission
wants to help but, unless our congressional delegation is open to changing the laws, there
is not much this Commission or the MAC can do. Schmidt said the letters serve a purpose
to remind those who do not fly in accordance with the procedures. In addition, the MAC
holds regular briefings for pilot groups here to review the noise abatement procedures.
Ms Lewis said pilot meetings are held twice a year and are intended to share the actual
procedures for the noise abatement program. She noted turning towards the river is one of
the procedures. The south parallel runway is the primary runway for take-offs.
Ms Kerwin asked if there are incentives to attend the briefings. Kiely mentioned free
coffee and donuts. Ms Lewis said pilots are given credit from the FAA for attending
safety training. Tschohl noted there is a pilot proficiency program. Laura Hermann, a
pilot from St. Bonifacius, said in some cases insurance companies will provide discounts
for safe pilot training.
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Steve Berglund, 10542 Spyglass Drive, asked about the flights of old aircraft at the
airport. Kiely replied those occur on Wednesdays. Mr. Berglund said the older planes
seem to fly at an altitude that makes them louder. Mr. Schmidt said their radial engines
make a lot of noise. The FAA has jurisdiction over all air space, and we have jurisdiction
over what happens on the ground. We can regulate engine run-ups, but we can't control
the aircraft in the air. There is a general rule about how high an aircraft should fly unless
it is taking off or landing. There are ways to fly quieter when departing, and that is what
we try to promote.
Tschohl said as time has gone by, the certification requirements for new aircraft design
have gotten tighter;however,phasing out of the old aircraft does not happen nearly as
quickly. There usually is low utilization for older aircraft, so there is no incentive to
upgrade the aircraft. It is still legal to fly an airplane that was certified in 1970, so Stage 3
aircraft are still able to fly. As time goes on, we expect that many of those will drop off.
Ms. Berglund asked if the shortage of parts for World War II type aircraft would be a
problem. Schendel said he expected those planes will keep flying because they are a
piece of our country's nostalgia. Every Wednesday there are four to six operators that fly
North American T6's to go out and practice formation flying. They do military
formations, funerals and missing man formations for events throughout the state. Those
flights start and end at FCM. Unfortunately, those flights are noisy for the neighbors
around the airport. He noted a lot of flight training traffic will transfer back to the north
parallel runway once it is reopened; however, there will probably be no relief from the
late night operations.
Mr. Schmidt said there are trends in the aviation business, and right now we are seeing
more flight training and corporate aircraft. All the new corporate aircraft are quieter than
older aircraft. Flight training will probably continue at the pace it is today as long as there
is a pilot shortage.
Ms Kerwin asked if it is worthwhile to continue to file complaints. Ms Lewis replied the
complaints provide helpful information. We can correlate flights and contact the
operators who receive complaints. The MAC understands the airport is part of the
community.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY,JULY 12, 2018
MOTION: Kiely moved, seconded by Schendel, to approve the minutes of the
July 12, 2018, meeting as published. Motion carried 4-0.
V. WELCOME NEW STUDENT COMMISSIONERS
Tschohl welcomed the new student commissioners and asked them to introduce
themselves and explain why they were interested in serving on the FCAAC.
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VI. AIRCRAFT NOISE 101 —MAC/HMMH
Ms Lewis said she would like to review the Airport Operations and Noise Complaint
report before starting the Noise 101 presentation. She said the number of complaints was
higher this quarter than in 2017, while the number of operations was lower. She noted the
third quarter often has a higher level of complaints than other quarters. Her office is in
the process of fine tuning the report and will email Chief Esbensen an updated version
when it is completed. She noted the information is also available online with an extra
level of detail.
Esbensen said he has been asked to request adding the percentage increase or decrease
year over year to the charts along with the total number of operations and complaints.
Staff is frequently asked how much the operations have changed from the previous year.
Tschohl asked if we have the ability to do aircraft type operations year over year. Ms
Lewis replied we do have data, and she can check to see if that information can be
provided on the report.
Ms Lewis introduced Gene Reindel, HMMH, who gave a PowerPoint presentation
entitled,Aircraft Noise 101. Mr. Reindel reviewed his company and his credentials as an
expert in sound. The presentation had three parts: Fundamentals of Acoustics; Aircraft
Noise Metrics; and Aircraft Noise Certification and Standards.
In Part 1 of his presentation, Mr. Reindel noted sound is a pressure variation our ears can
detect, while noise is a subjective quantity, or"unwanted" sound. A logarithmic scale,
decibels (dB), is used to express sound levels and noise levels. He reviewed the
meteorological effects of wind, refraction and fog or rain. He said human perception of
sound is determined by several complex factors including sound quality, duration and the
time of day. Tschohl asked if ear sensitivity was involved in the A-weighted sound levels.
Mr. Reindel responded hearing tests have been completed where people would rate
sounds as too loud. Those results were used to come up with charts that rate sounds on a
scale of 0 to 140 dB. A-weighted sound levels measure sound the way we "hear" it
because our human ear is not equally sensitive to all frequencies.
Mr. Reindel reviewed common aircraft noise metrics in Part 2 of his presentation. The
term, "Lmax," is used to describe a sound event with its maximum sound level. He noted
two events may have the same maximum level, but much different exposures. A longer
sound event may seem noisier, so the term Sound Exposure Level (SEL) is used to
include duration. The FAA uses the Day-Night Average Sound Level (DNL) to describe
the noise dose for a 24-hour period. Mr. Reindel reviewed a DNL Contour Set for the
year 2007 for Flying Cloud Airport. He noted the FAA guidelines consider all land uses
compatible below 65 dB DNL.
Kiely noted the contour map indicates sound carries more to the west at FCM and asked
if that is related to geography. Mr. Reindel replied the measurements for contours
represent an average of 24 hours over a full year of operations. Tschohl asked what the
FAA is looking at in their study on alternate metrics that would be applicable to FCM in
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the future. Reindel said the FAA did a survey of communities surrounding 20 airports in
order to try to get at annoyance levels in order to see how well the DNL data correlates.
Part 3 of Mr. Reindel's presentation addressed requirements included in the 14 CFR Part
36 Aircraft Noise Certification. The noise standards for most aircraft are given in terms
of"stages." This Federal regulation has driven the aircraft industry to develop quieter
aircraft. All aircraft must go through a testing process in order to get certification. He
noted at this point all Stage 2 jets have been phased out and are not allowed to operate in
the U.S.
Tschohl thanked Mr. Reindel for his presentation.
VII. STANDING DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. NOISE REPORT—MAC
See Item VI.
B. ORDINANCE 97 VIOLATIONS--MAC
Mr. Schmidt distributed a report of Ordinance 97 violations for the third quarter
showing one violation in July, two in August, and one in September. He reported
the violation in mid-August and the September violation were the same plane.
The operator had not yet received his letter when the September violation
occurred. Esbensen commented Ordinance 97 is not a voluntary requirement. Mr.
Schmidt said the maximum weight of the aircraft is 100K, and the aircraft
operated at around 60K gross take-off weight. Kiely asked if the MAC spoke to
the FBO. Mr. Schmidt said we don't have a penalty for them. Tschohl asked if it
was brought to the City ahead of time. Mr. Schmidt replied he was not involved in
the planning,but he thought it had been.
Mr. Schmidt said there was one more violation in September that was considered
exempt because it was part of a worldwide event, Girls in Aviation Day, on
September 22. Esbensen said the MAC staff did a great effort for the Super Bowl
in meeting with City staff and the City Council. We would expect the same
opportunity to weigh in as a City if there is a flight contemplated that would be in
violation of the ordinance. The City Council has been very clear about their stance
on that. The opportunity was never given to approve this flight or not to approve
it, and that is the kind of thing that jeopardizes the relationship.
Mr. Schmidt noted the CRJ9 used for the flight was not supposed to be the jet that
came in for the event. Esbensen asked if the pilot knows about Ordinance 97
when they file the flight plan. Mr. Schmidt responded they may have assumed it
was okay because the MAC was one of the sponsors of the event.
Esbensen asked if they will get a violation letter. Mr. Schmidt said he would send
a letter if the City wants to,but he thought it would send a negative message to
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Girls in Aviation. Tschohl pointed out they would send the letter to Endeavor, not
Girls in Aviation.
Esbensen said Eden Prairie is looking for consistency on enforcement of
Ordinance 97. The City would want the option to review a request for exemption
to the ordinance and would not approve of such an aircraft landing without
approving an exemption. This has nothing to do with the City and Girls in
Aviation,but rather with the aircraft selected for this flight.
C. AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS AND RUNWAY INCURSIONS--MAC
Gary Schmidt, MAC Director, Reliever Airports, said he did not have the
numbers for this summer but it was not an alarming number of incidents.
D. AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT UPDATES--MAC
Mr. Schmidt reported the construction of the north parallel runway is just
finishing up and will be open sometime in the next week.
E. JOINT AIRPORT ZONING BOARD (JAZB) UPDATES
Tschohl said he was not able to attend the last JAZB meeting, and Vice Chair
Barker is not here tonight to give a report. The ordinance changes have gone back
to MnDOT, and we expect a reply in November. Mr. Schmidt noted we are likely
to get the same response as previously, and we can then plead the case for a
variance.
F. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
None.
VIII. OTHER OLD BUSINESS
None.
IX. NEW BUSINESS
A. UPCOMING EVENTS AND TOPICS FOR FUTURE FCAAC MEETINGS
1. "Environment 101" (January 2019 FCAAC meeting)
2. 2019 City Council Workshop
3. Minneapolis TRACON Tour(Date TBD)
Tschohl said the Commission has been trying to organize a time for a visit
to TRACON at MSP. Mr. Schmidt said he will forward the information to
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Mr. Wilson when he comes back. Tschohl noted it could occur in
December or next year.
4. Review 2035 Flying Cloud LTCP Draft (Date TBD)
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
A. NEXT COMMISSION MEETING—January 10, 2018
MOTION: Schendel moved, seconded by Kiely, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried
4-0. Chair Tschohl adjourned the meeting at 9:10 P.M.