HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 10/12/2017 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 12, 2017 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
HERITAGE ROOM I
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair, Keith Tschohl; Vice-Chair, Bob
Barker; Braj Agrawal; Daniel Dorson; Dan
Kiely; Mike Wilson
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Kurt Schendel
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES PRESENT: Nathan Bellefeuille
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES ABSENT: None
STAFF: George Esbensen, Fire Chief; Jan Curielli,
City Recorder
GUEST: Rick Braunig, Manager, Aviation Safety and
Enforcement, MnDOT
I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Chair Tschohl called the meeting to order at 7:04 P.M.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Kiely moved, seconded by Agrawal, to approve the agenda as published.
Motion carried 6-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
None.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY,JULY 13, 2017
Tschohl had three corrections to Item V.B.: Page 3, Paragraph 3, change "14.4
incursions per 100" to "14 incursions per 100,000"; Page 4, Paragraph 2, change
"wheels" to "RIELs"; Page 4, Paragraph 3, change"FCM" to "Anoka."
MOTION: Barker moved, seconded by Kiely, to approve the minutes of the July
13, 2017, meeting as amended. Motion carried 6-0.
V. UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS UPDATE—MnDOT Aeronautics
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Rick Braunig, representing MNDoT, gave a PowerPoint presentation on small unmanned
aircraft systems (sUAS). He said sUAS, or drones, are defined as UAS aircraft weighing
less than 55 pounds. According to a ruling last year, such aircraft between 0.55 lbs. and
55 lbs. do not need to be registered, except for commercial purposes. Effective August
29, 2016, Federal Aviation Regulation Part 107 covers sUAS regulations and creates a
non-manned aircraft pilot certification for drone operators. It also includes other
restrictions for drones including the requirements that they may be operated in daylight
only and they may attain an altitude of 400 feet or less and may not operate within 400
feet of a structure. Use of drones in airspace within five miles of an airport requires
permission, which can be requested by filling out a form online that requires the applicant
to answer a question regarding how the operator can do the operation safely. He noted
there are currently no guidelines for what that answer should be.
Tschohl asked if the online form replaces the need to call the tower. Mr. Braunig replied
under Part 107 the control tower is not supposed to give permission to fly. Wilson noted
he still gets calls.
Mr. Braunig said the Section 333 exemption still exists and can be used as an exemption
to the requirement that only people operating the sUAS can be in the vicinity of the
drone. In addition, there is an exemption from the certification process for designated
public aircraft, such as those owned by MnDOT. There are additional regulations for
hobby and recreational use models. He noted most people do not understand the process
and the regulations, so recreational users may still be calling the control tower.
Esbensen asked about the height restrictions within five miles of the airport. Wilson
replied it is 400 feet,but there are issues if the drone is operated off the end of the
runway. Esbensen asked if there are issues if the drone is operated within five miles of
the airport. Wilson replied when they get a call they determine where the drone is located
and check for any impact on airport operations. Kiely asked if a drone could be operated
in the park near the airport. Mr. Braunig replied there are state regulations that deal with
some situations.
Mr. Braunig said a representative of the local Police Department would do enforcement,
and they are not necessarily experts on drone operations. He noted they are beginning to
see organizations for sUAS operators forming around the state. Such organizations may
be able to help if there is a need to ask operators to stop certain operations.
Mr. Braunig said in 2016 Congress passed HR636-17, which states sUAS cannot
knowingly interfere with fire-fighting, law enforcement or emergency operations. He said
AirMap, Inc., is a private company that maintains maps to help drone operators determine
where they can fly. The FAA operates a website that gives similar information. AirMap is
taking the lead on developing some kind of unmanned aircraft traffic management plan
(UTM), and is currently working with the state of Kansas to develop a statewide
infrastructure for UTM.
Tschohl asked if Mr. Braunig thought the way the market for lower cost drones exploded
a couple of years ago was something of a fad. Mr. Braunig said they have not seen a large
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problem with recreational users. There are a lot of recreational drones out there,but he
was not sure how many drone owners have stayed with it. He said they are seeing a lot of
businesses starting to use drones, and MnDOT recently purchased two drones for their
own use.
Barker asked if the MnDOT drones are used for bridge inspection. Mr. Braunig replied
they are used for bridge inspection and land surveys. He noted they are starting to see
more applications for drones to document construction projects.
Tschohl asked if the recent court decision regarding Massachusetts and restrictions on
operations gave guidance for local operations. Mr. Braunig said they haven't seen a lot of
push to put regulations for drone operations in place. The City of St. Bonifacius does
have a drone ordinance; however, he believed it is early in the history of drone
regulations. He said there are three areas to which cities have access that should enable
them to keep things safe: municipal laws,privacy laws, and trespass laws. A city is able
to designate a no-drone zone for an event. It may sometimes be necessary to contact a
drone operator to let them know their drone operation is not safe.
Tschohl asked how a local realtor or an inspector would make sure they have access to
operate. Mr. Braunig didn't believe anyone is outlawing those uses. Local operators can
get a commercial operator's license from the State. MnDOT goes out to talk to people
ahead of starting a project that will involve using a drone in a certain area.
Agrawal asked about drones over 55 pounds. Mr. Braunig replied anything over 55
pounds goes through manned aircraft procedures. They would apply to the FAA and must
show they meet the safety requirements. He noted it is still an arduous process to get an
aircraft certified. It is clear in Part 107 they did not want to include commercial
operations in the regulations.
Barker asked if other states have similar registration systems at the state level. Mr.
Braunig replied other states register aircraft. Minnesota has an exemption in our state law
that says a model aircraft does not have to be registered. His department has asked the
legislature to make changes; however, that hasn't gone anywhere. His department still
wants to have some registration process for drones under 55 pounds to have a handle on
what is going on. He noted there is a lot of work to be done to help regulate drones and to
help the industry develop safely.
VI. STANDING DISCUSSION ITEMS
Tschohl welcomed Nathan Bellefeuille to the Commission and reviewed how the
meetings work. He said the Commission was formed in response to a need for an
interface between the City of Eden Prairie and the MAC. The Commission's role is to
monitor how things are going with the airport and the relationship between City residents
and the MAC. We receive reports on noise monitoring and changes at the airport. He
noted it is fairly rare for the Commission to have public participation at the meetings;
however, there have been occasions when citizens have come to make complaints. We
listen to their comments and complaints, and the MAC will look into the situation.
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A. NOISE REPORT—MAC
Tschohl noted Ms Lewis is not here tonight so Mr. Wilson will give the report.
Wilson distributed copies of the quarterly noise report and noted the information
can be found at macnoise.com under the tab, "MSP Reliever Interactive Reports."
He reported Flying Cloud Airport is the only reliever airport seeing an increase in
operations. FCM has 32% of the total reliever airport operations and receives 50%
of the complaints.
Wilson reviewed the quarterly data for FCM, including the comparison of 2017 to
2016. He said there have been a lot of phone calls about the increase in the
number of operations, and this correlates to the data we have. There are a couple
of new complainants who recently purchased homes near the airport. He invited
one of them to attend tonight's meeting,but he is not here tonight.
Tschohl asked if there is any correlation of the data to night-time training
operations. Wilson replied a lot of noise complaints correlate to King Air take
offs. He has not heard of any particular training recently. There is a 50150 mix of
jets to turbo props. He reviewed the complaint map and noted they asked the
tower to push jet run-ups away from the area near Hennepin Village.
Kiely asked if a realtor is required to inform a buyer about the proximity of the
airport. Wilson replied all realtors should know the airport is there. Esbensen said
the original purchase documents disclose the location of the airport,but that
disclosure essentially goes away when the property is resold.
Tschohl asked how the City determines if it has to be part of the development
agreement. Wilson said they put in a letter opposing one of the developments in
the area. Barker noted the Planning Commission would require the developer to
include the disclosure. He asked if there is any way to include it in subsequent
purchases. Esbensen replied it was his understanding there was nothing included
in subsequent purchases.
Agrawal didn't understand how the purchaser would have access to a listing and
not realize there was an airport there. Wilson said the property owner who is
complaining wants an ultimate solution and has asked for no nighttime flights at
the airport. He told the complainant the MAC cannot put such restrictions on
flights,but we do reach out to pilots about complaints received. He has sent a lot
of information regarding federal law to the property owner, but the owner has told
people that we are not being humane. Agrawal asked if the owner will go to the
FAA about it. Wilson said he will probably go to both the FAA and the City
Council.
Barker asked if there is anything the Commission can do to help work with the
resident. Wilson reiterated he offered to have him come here to the meeting so we
could listen to his concerns. His property is located right where our noise
mitigation efforts have aircraft turn south to go over the river. He didn't see how
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we can correct the problem;however, the owner wants a solution, not more
information. He will keep inviting him to the Commission meetings.
Dorson said the owner's homeowners' association would be the one that would
have information about the airport. He thought working with the homeowners'
association is a way to disseminate information to the nearby neighborhoods.
Wilson said there is a resident in Maple Plain who puts in many complaints about
Flying Cloud Airport. He thought it correlates to a flight landing on the lakes up
there that was tracked to a takeoff from FCM. He said three households put in
74% of the complaints, and there were 25 first-time complaints in the quarter.
Barker asked if we have tracked that metric before. Wilson replied we track it, but
this is an uptick in numbers. They sent 30 letters to operators in the quarter for
about 80 operations.
Kiely asked if there was a sense some of the complaints were tied to construction
on the south side where there are bigger hangars and bigger aircraft. Wilson
replied there is a pretty good mix of complaints by location. The number of
operations out of the south area is not that great, and one large hangar there is still
under construction.
B. AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS AND RUNWAY INCURSIONS--MAC
1. Off-airport Aircraft Accident, October 4, 2017—MAC/EPFD
Wilson distributed the preliminary report on the fatal accident at
Resurrection Church on October 4. No one at the airport had seen that
aircraft fly before, although it had done high speed taxis in the past. There
were a lot of witnesses at the airport who stopped to watch the aircraft
when they saw how unique it was. The aircraft had an erratic flight, and it
descended steeply into the church parking lot.
Barker asked if there was any communication from the pilot. Wilson
replied there was none.
Tschohl asked about the City's response to an incident like that. Esbensen
said the response would include the Fire Department, Police Department
and an ambulance. He said we prefer the federal government perform the
investigation, so scene preservation is the key component for the City.
Barker asked if this would be handled differently than would a fatal car
crash. Esbensen replied the incident is different; however, we would do
scene preservation for both, and both types of incident would be treated as
a crime scene. Barker asked if there were any areas where responders
would act differently for aircraft. Esbensen replied there really are no
differences. We don't always know what caused the person to be deceased
or injured, so it is important to preserve the scene.
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Barker asked when the final report would be available. Wilson replied it is
hard to know how long it will take. The Fire and Police Departments did
an excellent job on scene preservation. The FAA responded within one
hour of the crash, and the NTSB was there later the first night. The
wreckage was taken away the next day to be analyzed at a storage site that
keeps wreckage from several sites. Esbensen said the final reports can take
up to a year because there is a lot riding on the reports.
Dorson asked if there was an impact on airport operations from the
incident. Wilson replied they did a runway inspection; however, they
didn't close the airport. It would have been handled differently had the
crash occurred at the airport. Esbensen noted we have had fatal aircraft
crashes out there in the past, so we have a process to deal with those. He
thought the aircraft operator did a good job of avoiding structures and
highways. Wilson said they gathered up reports from the witnesses at the
airport and gave the information to the NTSB.
C. AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT UPDATES--MAC
1. Non-aeronautical Development
Wilson said the day care is going up, and they are marketing one other
property there.
2. Public Viewing Area
Wilson said the sheet metal work is complete. They need to have signs for
the facility before holding the grand opening.
Wilson said the Police Department came out three times in September for training
at the airport and ran through about a dozen training scenarios. There were over
60 officers who went through the training to get familiar with the airport before
the Super Bowl. He noted they have not had the full Police Department out there
in the past, so it was great to see the training being held. Esbensen noted the Fire
Department trains out there regularly.
Wilson gave a report on preparations for Super Bowl LII. He showed a
PowerPoint presentation with photos taken at the Ryder Cup event. He noted they
have had a lot of meetings about the Super Bowl already and will have more
going forward. They expect 1500 jets coming through for the Super Bowl event,
with 60-75% of those aircraft on the ground at one time. He reviewed slides with
plans for ground transportation and vehicle movement, movement and non-
movement areas, deicing and fueling/parking areas, aircraft flow on Runway 10R,
and aircraft flow on Runway 28L He said each FBO will escort vehicles to the
aircraft and will have specific parking areas. A written operations plan will be
distributed to the FBO's and to the Fire Department. The ground reservation
system will begin Wednesday, January 31, 2018, and will end on Tuesday,
February 6. He noted the ground reservation system has been used for the last 13
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years. Each FBO will have its own unique login to the reservation system. The
FAA plans to hold outreach meetings, and he will be holding pilots' meetings.
There will be one controller dedicated to FCM traffic, and there will probably be
a special clearance frequency.
Wilson reviewed the number of available inbound and outbound slots for the
event for Flying Cloud. Barker asked if the FBO's are selling the slots. Wilson
replied it will probably be about$1500 per slot. The airport fee is $100 per slot
for transients to cover the airport's extra expenses for the event. Barker asked if
they have estimated the net financial impact from the event. Wilson replied they
expect the businesses at the airport to break even because they need to pay for
deicing equipment and contract employees. The hotels in the City are already full.
Wilson noted the website, Fly2sb52.org,has a tab for FCM and provides good
information about the event.
Tschohl asked Wilson to send a copy of his presentation to Esbensen for
distribution to Commission members. Wilson said he would do that.
Wilson noted there have been more incursions than the 14.4 per 100,000 he
reported at the last meeting. The FAA Certification Safety officer came out, and
the tower told him we need to move forward with the new tower location. The
FAA officer just asked them to repaint the runway markings. The FAA team is
coming back on November 7 to discuss runway incursions. He said Commission
members who are pilots can express ideas and concerns at the November 7th
meeting.
D. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
Tschohl noted he emailed Commission members copies of the article regarding
the court decision on restrictions at East Hampton Airport(KHTO) which
determined the airport cannot restrict a certain type of operations. He handed out
an article about the FAA's final ruling on noise standards, including standards for
Stage 5 jet aircraft noise restrictions. He noted it would be good to have a
presentation on that ruling at a future Commission meeting.
VII. OTHER OLD BUSINESS
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
A. JOINT AIRPORT ZONING BOARD (JAZB)
Esbensen said the Joint Airport Zoning Board (JAZB) will be meeting again. He
would like to have Commission Chair Tschohl attend, with Vice Chair Barker as
alternate. There is one meeting scheduled for October 26 from 9:00 a.m. to 10:30
p.m. and another in December. Wilson said the JAZB is being reconvened
because an agency threatened to cut off funding. The JAZB will refresh the old
information produced from 2012-2014. It will probably take about eight meetings
to get through everything. He said they expect whatever is submitted to the
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commissioner will be kicked back because it doesn't meet the State laws
regarding the length of the runway so the safety zones don't meet the
requirements.
Tschohl said he will be traveling in October, so he asked Vice Chair Barker to
attend the October meeting if he is able.
B. UPCOMING EVENTS AND TOPICS FOR FUTURE FCAAC MEETINGS
1. Semiannual Mac Noise Abatement Seminar(November 4)
2. Super Bowl LII Updates (January 2018)
3. Review City Council Workshop Presentation (January 2018)
4. Review 2035 Flying Cloud LTCP Draft (2018, date TBD)
Wilson said work on the Flying Cloud Airport long term care plan (LTCP)
has been pushed back because of the re-opening of the JAZB. They will
probably work on Anoka next because that airport is not part of the JAZB.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
A. NEXT COMMISSION MEETING—January 11, 2018
MOTION: Barker moved, seconded by Kiely, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried
6-0. Chair Tschohl adjourned the meeting at 9:30 P.M.