HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 04/14/2016 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY,APRIL 14, 2016 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
HERITAGE ROOM I
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair, Keith Tschohl; Vice-Chair, Caryl
Hansen; Bob Barker; Dan Kiely; Kurt
Schendel; Joseph Sutila; Mike Wilson
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: None
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Luke Holzworth; Michael Richter
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES ABSENT: None
STAFF: George Esbensen, Fire Chief;Jan Curielli,
City Recorder
VISITORS: Jennifer Lewis, MAC Representative; Brad
Juffer, MAC Representative; Bill Ratts,
FCM Acting Air Traffic Manager; Jim
Shadduck, Manager of Flying Cloud Tower;
Chad Leqve, MAC Director, Environment;
Gary Schmidt, MAC Director, Reliever
Airports
I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Chair Tschohl called the meeting to order at 7:11 PM.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Wilson added Item VI.F.
MOTION: Hansen moved, seconded by Sutila, to approve the agenda as amended.
Motion carried 7-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
None.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY,JANUARY 14, 2016
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MOTION: Sutila moved, seconded by Barker, to approve the minutes of the
January 14, 2016, meeting as published. Motion carried 7-0.
V. WELCOME TO COMMISSIONER KIELY
A. INTRODUCTIONS
Chair Tschohl asked Commissioner Kiely to talk about his background and
interest in serving on the FCAAC. After Kiely reviewed his background and
interests, the other Commissioners and guests introduced themselves.
B. OVERVIEW OF COMMISSION
i. Brief History of Airport/City Relations
Tschohl gave a history of airport/City relations. He referred to the City
Council minutes from October 14, 1975, included in the Commission's
meeting packet, when discussions regarding the first expansion of the
airport runway occurred. He noted the discussion in 1975 was very similar
to the discussion about the second expansion that occurred 30 years later.
He said one of the points that came out of the discussion in 1975 was the
adoption of an advisory commission for the airport to serve as the first line
of communications about the airport. He reviewed the history of noise
restrictions at the airport and noted those restrictions are voluntary. The
City of Eden Prairie has no legal jurisdiction about operations at the
airport, although there are some areas where the City and the MAC have
collaboration. The City can restrict some non-aeronautical activities,but
the FAA has sole jurisdiction for air operations. He noted it is in the City's
general interest to work collaboratively with the MAC and the airport
tower to do what we can to make sure things work safely and efficiently.
He noted the MAC has done a lot of things to alleviate concerns of
residents and to engage members of the public who have difficulty
interacting with life near the airport.
Kiely asked how Flying Cloud airport fits into the MAC's strategy. Gary
Schmidt, MAC Director of Reliever Airports, said Flying Cloud airport is
one of the more important reliever airports in the metropolitan area, and
they do anticipate some additional improvements at Flying Cloud airport.
ii. Summary of Final Agreement, and Relevant Laws/Rewlations
Mr. Schmidt said the Airport Noise and Capacity Act of 1990 was
designed to get rid of Stage 1 and 2 aircraft. In 2003 a final agreement was
reached with the City of Eden Prairie that agreed to the airport expansion
but also contained a noise abatement plan to send out letters about
complaints received on aircraft operations.
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Tschohl asked Mr. Schmidt if they see any transition in the types of
aircraft at Flying Cloud. Mr. Schmidt responded there are technological
changes every year, and most of the corporate aircraft are relatively new.
iii. Recent Focus Areas
Tschohl said Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS), or drones, have been a
recent topic for the Commission. Air space for the Flying Cloud Airport
covers most of the City of Eden Prairie. Current regulations state that a
drone owner must call the MAC and the airport tower for permission to
operate the drone. He noted the FAA is trying to play catch up to deal with
the growing popularity of drones. This Commission is not able to establish
policy, but we can monitor what is developing at the State and Federal
level to provide feedback to City staff and the City Council.
Kiely asked how the drone regulations are enforced. Mr. Schmidt said that
is one of the issues across the country. The airports work with local law
enforcement jurisdictions regarding what is legal and what to do with
complaints. He noted most of the population doesn't understand the
restrictions nor who they should contact for permission. He said the issue
regarding drones in this area of the country is safety, while the issue on the
west coast is one of privacy.
Wilson said four people have contacted the airport since the last
Commission meeting, and they have had other reports of drones being
used. He noted enforcement can be very difficult. He believed the Eden
Prairie Police Department would enforce the law if we wanted them to
since they work well with the airport. The MAC staff are working on an
internal policy to make it easier for people to use a drone.
Jim Shadduck, Manager of Flying Cloud Tower, said the situation with
drones is still in flux. They have received reports of drones operating near
Lakeville at 400 feet above the ground. They are hoping this will work
itself out without having any tragedies.
Esbensen said the City hasn't taken any action on drone flight regulations.
He said the concern is the regulation of something being sold that is in
flux. We are waiting for more clarity on the issue. He noted the
Commission met with MnDOT about the issue of sUAS late last year.
VI. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. NOISE REPORT/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS UPDATES—MAC
i. Updates from MAC Staff on Recent Resident Noise Complaints
Jennifer Lewis, MAC representative, reviewed the noise complaint reports
for January, February and March, 2016. Complaints in January numbered
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less than 100. In February there were a total of 48 complaints from eight
households, which represented a significant decrease for both categories
compared to 2015. There were 116 complaints in March 2016 as
compared to 229 in March 2015. She said her office learned that two
residents who often submitted complaints moved, and that may explain the
lower number of complaints thus far in 2016.
Kiely noted there appear to be higher helicopter operation complaints in
the first three months of 2016. Lewis replied we don't always have
identifying information on helicopter flights, so helicopter operations
often end up being placed in the Unknown Aircraft category. Tschohl said
the FCM Helicopter Operations category in Table 2 of the report
represents helicopter operations, not complaints about helicopters. Lewis
said the number of complaints about helicopter operations would appear in
Table 1.
Mr. Shadduck said overall complaints were down; however, there were
complaints received from a new location north of the airport. They
reached out to a MAC Commissioner and began a dialogue with the
resident to explain the operational flow of the airport and how Flying
Cloud works. They explained the limitations the tower has and gave the
resident data regarding operations close to their home. That dialogue has
led to their reaching out to Mr. Wilson and the tower to try to get more
compliance with the requests regarding southbound turns. That message
will be given out at the pilot briefing on Saturday. He noted the noise
office has had multiple discussions with the tower about this,but this is
still a voluntary procedure.
Wilson said they identified two aircraft that had flights over the resident's
house that were pushing a little more to the north. The operators said it is
difficult for them to do a southbound turn like the resident would prefer;
however, they did agree to make sure they are running straight out.
Chad Leqve, MAC Director, Environment, noted the resident had planned
to come to tonight's meeting but was not able to do so. He believed the
departure tactics we are discussing could have some effect,but he also
thought some of the situation concerns arrival operations. It may be a
question of distribution on parallel runways, and there are certain Federal
regulations that govern these activities. He said they plan to share
information with the resident and will continue to do everything they can
to reduce the impact. He told the resident he would bring his concerns to
the meeting tonight.
Tschohl asked if there has been any discussion of using a different heading
number in view of our warm spring weather and strong winds. Mr.
Shadduck said the bulk of the traffic does turn to the south when the wind
is coming from the west. There are very few flights assigned to Heading
280. He noted for a VFR request they don't deal with the course,just that
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they are clear to take off. He also noted they have no control over anything
after 10:00 PM in the summer months or 9:00 PM the rest of the year.
Tschohl asked if we have any idea what triggered the complaints from the
resident at this time. Mr. Shadduck said the resident says there has been a
change. Tschohl said he exchanged emails with MAC Representative
Dana Nelson regarding the altitudes of the flights. Mr. Shadduck said the
departure profile has been in the guide for a number of years. He believed
the net effect of the discussions with the resident will be positive. They
plan to refocus their efforts to make everyone aware of the restrictions.
B. AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS AND RUNWAY INCURSIONS—MAC
Wilson said there was an aircraft incident with a gear collapse on landing today.
There were no injuries, but it was classified as an incident. The runway was
closed for almost two hours.
Tschohl asked what the typical response would be to a minor incident. Wilson
said the tower contacted him and the maintenance crew. They closed down the
runway and initiated the phone tree to the FAA. The inspector released the
aircraft. He said for flat tires the tower reaches out to him. They do an inspection
of the runway after the fact.
C. AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT UPDATES—MAC
Wilson said they are starting maintenance on Taxiway Alpha in mid-May which
will take about 40 construction days to complete. He described the maintenance to
be completed and said construction will be done in three phases.
Barker asked if there will be times when the hangar lanes are inaccessible. Wilson
replied the driveway on the north side can be used during those times. Barker
asked if there will be an issue with landscaping. Wilson did not believe there
would be. Barker then asked the purpose of the maintenance. Wilson replied it is a
full-depth maintenance. Construction will go down 42 inches, and the taxiway
will be built back up.
Kiely asked if there will be concerns with trucks during the maintenance work.
Wilson said there are designated haul roads.
D. UAS REGULATORY AND INTEGRATION UPDATES—MAC
Wilson said there are no updates about UAS regulations.
Barker noted he heard that ESPN expects drone racing to be as popular as
NASCAR, which speaks to the popularity of drones.
E. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
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i. Open Meeting Law and the FCAAC Members
Esbensen said he was asked if airport tours by the Commission would be a
violation of the open meeting law. He said the tours are okay as long as a
meeting does not take place nor any discussion about FCAAC business.
Commission members need to be very careful about appearing to have a
meeting outside the bounds of the published meeting date. We might want
to schedule the City Attorney's 20-minute presentation on the subject for
the July meeting.
F. DISCUSSION OF ORDINANCE 97
(Taken out of sequence before Item VI.E.)
Mr. Schmidt said Ordinance 97 was adopted in 2003 as part of the final
agreement between the City of Eden Prairie and the MAC. The MAC is charged
with monitoring compliance with the final agreement and recently discovered
some violations of Ordinance 97 by incoming transient aircraft whose gross
takeoff weight exceeds 60,000 lbs. The majority of the aircraft are doing business
in Eden Prairie, and some are used by the bigger employers in the City.
Tschohl said Mr. Wilson and he had discussions yesterday about this issue.
Ordinance 97 put in place a certificated gross takeoff weight of 60,000 lbs.
pounds, (the MGTOW). The purpose of the ordinance was to keep larger and
noisier aircraft out of the community. He reviewed the definitions involved in the
weight restrictions and showed graphs of margins to Stage 3 limits for 60,000 lbs.
MGTOW for various aircraft, the certified years of the aircraft, and the noise level
on approach and flyover.
Mr. Schmidt said they would not seek to overturn the ordinance, but there may be
a complaint made to the FAA that we are discriminating against some aircraft.
One of the concerns expressed at the discussions around the final agreement was
that we would change the character of the airport, and he did not think that has
occurred. These are larger aircraft, but Stage 3 aircraft are more efficient. Mr.
Leqve said we know these things are occurring and will follow up on this
situation, The MAC is committed to the final agreement and will continue to
enforce the agreement.
Esbensen asked if there will be any official notification to the City other than in
this venue. Mr. Schmidt said they have only come to the Commission to report the
situation. Barker asked what has been done so far to talk to the operators. Mr.
Schmidt said they have done nothing so far because this situation just came to
their attention. Wilson noted one operator reached out to Mr. Schmidt to bring
one of these aircraft to the airport, and the operator was told he could not do that.
Mr. Schmidt noted only transient aircraft have been involved in these incidents.
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Schendel asked what alternative these aircraft over 60,000 lbs. would have in the
Twin Cities other than MSP. Mr. Schmidt said it would be St. Paul downtown or
Anoka.
Esbensen suggested meeting together with the City Manager to have discussions
about the situation. Mr. Schmidt noted they chose to come to the Commission
first.
Tschohl asked about the yearly total for such operations. Mr. Schmidt said it
occurs about once a month, so they don't see them all the time. Tschohl noted
from an overall perspective this is a minor issue. However, Ordinance 97 is there,
and there is a question of how we would proceed with enforcement. He asked if
there is any danger that the FAA would require a rewrite of the ordinance if this
issue were to go to the FAA. Mr. Schmidt replied that could happen if it turns out
to be a violation of federal rules. There is a complaint procedure in place to go to
the FAA. If a complaint were filed, the FAA would have to decide if this was a
reasonable restriction. Barker asked if there is any precedent for that to happen or
if there are other agreements similar to this one. Mr. Schmidt noted in 2002 the
FAA said they would not address this until there is a complaint. There have been
some complaints about arbitrary restrictions,particularly on the west coast,but
those involved attempts to make the restrictions mandatory.
Esbensen said his role is to advise the City Manager about things of importance
that take place in these meetings, and he will do that tomorrow. He noted
Ordinance 97 is very specific, and this is something that will have to be
strategically addressed. Since 1975 we have had residents who aren't thrilled
about the airport, so this issue will have to be dealt with very carefully.
Mr. Schmidt noted none of the noise complaints have correlated to these
operations. Hansen asked if the weight over 60,000 lbs. has an effect on the
construction of the runway. Wilson replied they would have to improve the
runway if aircraft weights were increased significantly over 60,000 lbs.
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP HELD JANUARY 19, 2016
Tschohl noted a copy of the presentation provided to the City Council at the
workshop was included in the Commission meeting packet. Hansen commented
that Mr. Tschohl did a fabulous job with the presentation.
VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. FCAAC PRESENTATION AT MAY 16, 2016, METROPOLITAN
AIRPORTS COMMISSION MEETING, 1300 HRS. LOCATION IS MSP
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Tschohl said the presentation will be approximately 15 minutes, and our portion
of the meeting should be completed before 2:00 PM. He will send out directions
to those who want to attend the meeting.
B. UPCOMING EVENTS AND TOPICS FOR FUTURE FCAAC MEETINGS
i. Saturday,April 16, 9 AM: Noise Abatement Seminar at Modern
Avionics
Tschohl said he would be happy to give a five-minute presentation about
the Commission at the meeting. Schendel noted they usually have 80-100
pilots attending these.
ii. Saturday,April 16, 10 AM (approx.): Annual Airport Tour
The Commission members discussed who could attend and where to meet
for the tour.
iii. Saturday, May 7, 11 AM: Grand Opening of Wins of the North Air
Museum
iv. Monday, May 16, 1 PM: Presentation at Full Commission Meetin!of
the MAC
V. July 16-17: Wings of the North Air Expo
A. July/October 2016: MAC Commissioner King (tentative)
vii. 2016 or 2017 (date TBD): Review 2035 Flying Cloud LTCP Draft
Mr. Schmidt said they are concentrating on the LTCP for Crystal Airport
at this time. Wilson said they have started the operational information for
Flying Cloud. The Met Council has a deadline of 2018,but the MAC staff
want to get this out by 2017.
Sutila noted his contact information sheet is very old and needs to be updated.
Tschohl said he will have Chief Esbensen send out an email asking Commission
members to refresh the information.
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
A. Next Commission Meeting--July 14, 2016
Tschohl asked if there were any topics the Commission members would like to
have on the agenda for July or October. Barker asked about the status of the
public viewing area. Mr. Schmidt said that is one of their goals for this year. They
need to coordinate with the Parks Department because the location is just off the
park land. Barker asked that the Commission be kept informed and be able to
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offer input on the design of the viewing area. He considered to be a good
opportunity to involve the community.
MOTION: Hansen moved, seconded by Barker, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried
7-0. Chair Tschohl adjourned the meeting at 9:00 PM.