HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 04/09/2015 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY,APRIL 9, 2015 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
HERITAGE ROOM I
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair, Keith Tschohl; Vice-Chair, Caryl
Hansen; Commissioners: Bob Barker,
Victoria Price, Kurt Schendel, Joseph Sutila
and Mike Wilson
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: None
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Britta Carlsen (absent), Brian Gilje
STAFF: George Esbensen, Fire Chief, Jan Curielli,
City Recorder
VISITORS: Jennifer Lewis, MAC Representative
L CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Chair Tschohl called the meeting to order at 7:02 PM.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Hansen moved, seconded by Sutila, to approve the agenda as published.
Motion carried 7-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
There was no public comment.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY, JANUARY 8, 2015
Tschohl said the correct date of the last meeting was January 8, 2015.
MOTION: Sutila moved, seconded by Wilson, to approve the minutes of the
January 8, 2015, meeting as amended. Motion carried 7-0.
V. WELCOME TO NEW COMMISSIONERS
A. INTRODUCTIONS
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Chair Tschohl welcomed the new Commissioners and asked everyone to
introduce themselves.
B. OVERVIEW OF THE COMMISSION
i. Brief History of Airport/City Relations
In order to bring the new Commissioners up to speed, Tschohl gave a brief
history of Flying Cloud Airport. He noted it was established in the 1940's
before the City of Eden Prairie was incorporated. As the city and the
airport grew, the airport started to become an issue with the neighbors.
Flying Cloud was a busy flight training airport in the late 1960's, but
transitioned to business aviation as the metropolitan area grew. The issue
of noise abatement first appeared in the late 1970's. The IL,S system was
built in the late 1980's, and the City of Eden Prairie began to lodge
objections to future expansion of the runway by means of resolutions
passed in 1988 and 1992 by the City Council.
Tschohl said the conflict between Eden Prairie and the MAC really began
when the MAC received approval from the Metropolitan Council for the
5,000 foot runway and culminated when the Final Agreement regarding
expansion was reached in 2002. In the Final Agreement the City of Eden
Prairie agreed to drop objections to the runway expansion in exchange for
the MAC implementing noise abatement procedures and imposing limits
on the MAC not to seek a longer runway. In addition the MAC would
impose voluntary night time programs on operators, would set limits on
Stage 2 aircraft, and would begin a series of programs as part of the
enforcement, investigation and education of operators. He said the
expansion was completed in late 2009 and early 2010, and the airport has
been in status quo since then.
ii. Summary of Final Agreement, and Relevant Laws/Re2ulations
Tschohl said the final agreement is what laid out the ground work for the
expansion. Some of the challenges faced by the City of Eden Prairie in the
relationship with the airport are the various jurisdictions at the State and
Federal levels that are involved in the airport. The use of air space is the
U.S. government's sovereign domain, therefore it is difficult for local
municipalities to put restrictions on local air space. Neither the City nor
the MAC has direct control of flight paths or even use of the airport during
the day or night; however, they can work with local air traffic control to
develop voluntary programs and procedures that lessen the effects of the
operations. At the state level, states have control over zoning at airports;
however, the FAA determines whether a building will interfere with
operations so they determine height restrictions around airports.
The MAC was created with a separate State statute that lays out its powers
and functions. The MAC functions as a municipality with the ability to
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enter into agreements as if it were a municipality. MSP airport is its own
entity, while Flying Cloud is in the City of Eden Prairie. The Minnesota
State Attorney General's opinion in 1992 stated the MAC was essentially
able to pre-empt local zoning codes. The MAC recently worked with the
City on the zoning of commercial property owned by the MAC that is
outside the airport fences. Buildings at the airport must be inspected by the
City's Fire Department, but the appearance of those buildings is not
subject to the same zoning restrictions as other property in the City.
iii. Recent Focus Areas
Tschohl said there has been no public input for some time now. We did
see concern from the public during the last year or so about certain
helicopter operations. There is one active helicopter operation at Flying
Cloud, and there are other operators for mosquito control or local news
channels. Some complaints, primarily about the frequency of helicopter
operations, were received from residents on the northeast side of the
airport behind the Super America station. At times some of the patterns
used for the helicopter operations are larger than they could be. The
Commission asked the MAC and airport management to see if anything
could be done to tighten up the patterns and give other options. The
Commission also tracks the general trends of noise reports at each meeting
with the noise complaint reports given by Ms Lewis. The Commission has
also been kept apprised of new development in the south hangar area.
VI. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. NOISE COMPLAINTS/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS REPORT -- MAC
Jennifer Lewis distributed copies of the FCM noise complaint reports for January,
February and March, 2015. She noted nine households submitted 287 noise
complaints in January, 131 of which were regarding night time noise. That was a
29% increase over January of 2014. In January, 2015, there was also a higher
number of operations that generated a letter. Tschohl asked if the operators who
received a letter were new operators. Ms Lewis replied the majority were repeats,
and noted there are eight operators that regularly get letters each month. She said
only one letter is sent to each aircraft operator regardless of how many complaints
they receive or how many operations they conduct. Operators that have prior
approvals or operations that are exempt do not receive letters. Wilson noted there
are only three companies that let airport management know of operations that will
require approvals. Ms Lewis said we have a couple of medical operators who fly
leased aircraft so we would not know it was a medical flight. Wilson said there
are two complainants in Hennepin Village who are putting in quite a few
complaints. Ms Lewis said the same three households generated many of the
complaints for the first three months of 2015.
Price asked if we know what streets the complainants live on. She lives in
Hennepin Village across from the airport and wondered if they are situated in a
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spot where the noise is very bad. Ms Lewis replied they typically don't share
address information. Price noted many of the complaints seem to come from the
area around Spring Road. Ms Lewis said the largest volume of complaints comes
from the area to the west and south of the airport. Tschohl pointed out Slide#9
from his presentation to the City Council that summarized 2014 noise complaints.
Ms Lewis explained how the data is presented in the charts she distributed.
Ms Lewis said there was a 58% decrease in the number of complaints in February
2015 as compared to February 2014. There were nine engine run-up complaints,
some of which were correlated to departure activity and some of which were not
correlated to any activity.
Schendel asked if the early and late complaint descriptions are prior to 6:00 AM
and after 10:00 PM. Ms Lewis replied that someone complaining would be self
reporting and may not consider "early" or "late" to be within the MAC's
parameters for night time activity from 10:00 PM to 7:00 AM . She noted we
receive a lot of 7:00 AM complaints. Hansen asked about the definition of"early"
and "late." Ms Lewis said it is whatever time the complainant thinks is too early
or too late. We have defined times for what we term "night time activity" for the
statistics, but we do not define "early" or "late" for the online complaints.
Ms Lewis said there was a 64% decrease in the number of complaints in March
2015 as compared to March 2014. There were 11 letters sent out regarding 34
operations that generated complaints. There was an increase in the number of
night time aircraft operations which they attributed to night time training. She said
we want night time training activity to cease by midnight, and we do see a
significant amount during the 10:00 PM hour.
Ms Lewis reported that eight Stage 2 operations occurred during the 12 months
from April 1, 2014, to March 31, 2015. Recently there were two Stage 2
operations on April 6 and 7 that were conducted by the same operator who
conducted such operations in April of last year. The operator contacted her in
advance to let her know the passenger wanted to use Flying Cloud because he had
business in Eden Prairie although they usually fly out of MSP. She reviewed the
noise abatement procedures with the operator, and she did not believe they
received a complaint about the flight. Schendel asked what type of aircraft was
involved. Ms Lewis replied it was a Gulfstream III. She said there is a rule
effective December 31, 2015, that Stage 2 aircraft less than 75,000 lbs. will be
banned from operations in the U.S. unless they have a special permit.
Tschohl asked for a summary of the program the MAC performs at the St. Paul
airport that Ms Lewis described at the January meeting and the costs for the
program. Ms Lewis replied on an annual basis the MAC sets up six noise
monitors in neighborhoods that surround the airport in downtown St. Paul. The
monitors operate for eight days, and the data from each of the monitors is
matched up with flight activity associated with the St. Paul downtown airport.
They also look at noise complaints received during that time and correlate flight
activity with noise recordings as well as weather conditions. All of the data is put
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together in a report which is published on the MAC website. The study is
conducted during the spring to fall months. They are able to compare data to other
years. The purpose of the program is to have a snapshot in time of actual noise
generated and the contributors to the noise. The MAC dedicates about three
months of staff time to the preparation and reporting of the noise monitoring.
Tschohl asked who pays for the program. Ms Lewis said the MAC pays for that as
part of an agreement with the downtown airport advisory committee. The City of
St. Paul had concerns about the construction of a flood wall built to protect the
downtown airport and to allow the airport to be operational even if part of the
airport is under water. The MAC agreed with the City of St. Paul to do the study
in exchange for the city's support to construct the wall. The MAC used the same
noise monitoring equipment to do noise testing in homes in Eden Prairie around
the airport that was done so they could compare exterior and interior noise levels.
Tschohl asked if there is a similar noise monitoring program at any other airport.
Ms Lewis said she was not aware of any. Wilson suggested the MAC would be
taxed to do this type of study in Eden Prairie; however, noise monitoring here or
there might be a possibility. Tschohl said he did not see any pressing need to
spend resources on that now.
Ms Lewis said they are monitoring run-ups at Flying Cloud, primarily to verify
that a run-up did occur. Barker asked if that monitoring is directional. Ms Lewis
said they can do that only if there is wind. She noted they will leave the noise
monitor there for now as they get a lot of information from the monitor
recordings.
Hansen asked if there is any discussion on a new control tower. Wilson said it is
in the plan for 2020. He said their offer to pay for a second scope was turned
down. He noted the MAC will probably move forward with the maintenance
building ahead of their building a new tower.
Ms Lewis left at 8:09 PM.
B. AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
Wilson said they have had a couple of flat tires on the field. The maintenance staff
went out to check and found nothing so they don't know what the issue was.
C. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
i. Small UAS NPRM Summary
Tschohl said the proposed rulemaking still keeps a distinction between
hobby operators and commercial operators. Commercial operators would
have to be licensed, but hobbyists would not. He noted most of the City of
Eden Prairie lies within the Class D air space, and operations within that
area will require the approval of the airport manager for flights. He was
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not sure if there would be some type of framework or agreement set up
within certain geographic areas where they would be approved without
submitting a request every time.
Wilson said there is a group of hobbyists who are flying now. They are
trying to put together a general rule for the entire metropolitan area. They
are working on a set of guidelines about who they should contact and what
the process would be. The Federal law doesn't give any direction on that.
Price asked about the MAC's take on safety concerns for other aircraft.
Wilson replied the AOPA is out to protect the pilots but the people using
the small UAS craft do not like it, nor does Google. He did not know if the
MAC has taken a formal stand.
Sutila asked if they are flying these in any particular area. Wilson replied
it is pretty random. The rules state they can't be above people, but he did
not know what types they are flying.
Tschohl asked Mr. Wilson if he had any idea whether the NPRM would be
pushed through in its present form. Wilson said it would probably be
similar to this. He noted Chris Cooper of Hummingbird Aviation is
training drone pilots now, and he would be the expert on this. Mr. Cooper
is trying to get permission for some use of the airport because they are
currently taking people outside of the airport for training. He believed this
will be a big business, and they are being paid a decent amount of money.
Price asked if Mr. Cooper could speak to the Commission at an upcoming
meeting. Tschohl suggested we might arrange that for the September
meeting.
Price asked if a lot of aircraft approach from the Minnesota Wildlife
Refuge because she has noted a lot of planes coming in that way. She
thought they weren't supposed to fly over the refuge. Wilson said we
encourage them to fly there so they avoid noise in the populated areas.
Price asked if some people objected to that. Wilson said he was not sure.
ii. "Know Before You Fly" Brochure
VIL OLD BUSINESS
A. UPDATES ON HELICOPTER NOISE COMPLAINTS
Wilson said they have received a few complaints on helicopters but nothing out of
the ordinary. He thought the complaints may start to pick up as the weather gets
nicer. They are trying to keep the pattern tight to the airport, and the operators are
willing to do that. He thought that is helping a little.
B. REVIEW OF JANUARY 20, 2015 CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP
PRESENTATION
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Tschohl reviewed the presentation he gave to the City Council on January 20 that
outlined the Commission's accomplishments for 2014 and the goals for 2015. The
presentation included a review of the meeting the Commission had with residents
last November and the revised letter of agreement between the MAC and the
control tower updating the preferred helicopter routes. He reviewed the
accomplishments for 2014, such as cleaning up the website to get rid of much of
the information about the airport expansion, presenting the biennial review of
security at FCM, and providing statistics on FCA usage and noise complaints. He
reviewed the regional operations comparison chart for all airports within the
region.
Price asked if the airport lost the hobbyists after the runway expansion. Wilson
said many of the hobbyists were lost after the recession. Price asked if fees at the
airport went up after the expansion. Wilson replied the fees at FCA were raised
and are the same as those at the Anoka airport. There is a built-in escalator for
fees, and taxes in Eden Prairie are higher than other areas so the cost to do
business here is more. Price asked about the ratio of hobbyists and corporate
customers. Wilson said he did not know the ratio, but jet operations went up after
the expansion. Flying Cloud does get some bigger aircraft now that weren't
coming in before; however, there has been a steady decrease at all airports since
the recession.
Tschohl pointed out Slide 15 in his PowerPoint presentation to the City Council
that breaks down Flying Cloud operations for 25 years and shows total traffic
counts. The slide indicates there has been a pretty steady decline since 1995. He
noted there also is an aging of the general aviation pilot fleet.
Schendel asked about the number of based aircraft now, as that might be different
from the number of operations. Wilson replied six years ago they had 1600 based
aircraft, and now there are closer to 1200. People can't afford to fly many of the
aircraft because of the cost of fuel.
C. WEBSITE UPDATES
See VILB.
VIIL NEW BUSINESS
A. MEETINGS TOPICS/EVENTS
i. May 2015 Special Meeting: Flying Cloud Airport Tour
Tschohl said Commission members like to have a tour of the airport every
year before the end of the school year so the student commissioners can
join in the tour. Commissions members discussed their availability and set
May 14, 2015, for the tour at 5:00 PM to start at the base of the tower.
Wilson said to enter the airport at Gate A.
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ii. July 2015 Regular Meeting: MAC Update (Rick King)
iii. October 2015 Regular Meeting: UAS Updates (tentative)
iv. January 2016 Regular Meeting: Work Plan Prep
Wilson reported that TCF will start construction of a 100 X 140 foot building in the south
area of the airport. C.H. Robinson will be constructing a 120 X 130 foot hangar on the far
west lot. There are three other private hangars to be constructed this summer. He asked
Commissioners to talk to people they see driving on the grass and dragging mud around
because that activity requires clean up on the taxiways. They are receiving a lot of
complaints about that.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
A. Next Commission Meeting--July 9, 2015
III. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Hansen moved, seconded by Sutila, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried
7-0. Chair Tschohl adjourned the meeting at 8:50 PM.