HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 07/11/2013 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY,JULY 11, 2013 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
HERITAGE ROOM 1
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Keith Tschohl, Vice-Chair; Commissioners: Caryl
Hansen, Jeff Nawrocki, and Joe Sutila
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES PRESENT: Peter Humbert
COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: George Esbensen, Fire Chief
Lori Creamer, Recording Secretary
VISITORS: Jennifer Lewis, MAC Representative
I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
Vice Chair Tschohl called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Tschohl asked to add "Phase out of Civil Stage 2 aircraft" as item "d" under Discussion Items
and move the current item "d" "landscaping issue letter" as item "e"
MOTION: Hansen moved, seconded by Sutila, to approve the agenda as amended. The motion
carried 4-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY, MAY 9, 2013
MOTION: Motion was made by Sutila, seconded by Hansen, to approve the May 9, 2013
minutes as presented. The motion carried 4-0.
V. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. POSSIBLE FALL TOUR
Normally this would have been the meeting when the commission toured Flying Cloud
Airport. Tschohl stated the commission would still like to take a tour of Flying Cloud
Airport possibly this fall when the student representatives and hopefully chair Larsen would
be able to attend. Nawrocki replied he would probably be able to make that work.
Commissioners asked when the tour would be— a week day or Saturday possibly. Nawrocki
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July 11, 2013
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stated historically the tour has been held on the same day as a regular meeting starting
around 3:00 pm and commencing with the regular meeting at 7:00 pm. He will set up
something for September 12, 2013, the next regularly scheduled meeting. Some areas of
interest at the airport would be the runway construction for the 1836 project, the new
Thunderbird site, possibly ASI or Premier. Nawrocki suggested Thunderbird Aviation or
Premier Jet would be good places to tour. Meet at Gate A near the tower at 3:00pm
B. INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT WATCH SUMMIT
Tschohl shared with the commission information regarding the 3rd Annual International
Airport Watch Summit on Friday, July 12 —Sunday, July 14. There will be a variety of
speakers from the US and Canada. He stated he would be making a presentation on general
aviation and invited the commission to attend.
C. NOISE COMPLAINTS/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS REPORT FOR MAY AND JUNE
Jennifer Lewis, MAC Representative, presented the noise complaints received by MAC for
the months of May and June, 2013. Total complaints for the month of May were 354
compared to 119 for the same time period in 2012, which a very large increase. However,
the increase is contributed largely to one household. 19 households complained compared to
25 last year. Nighttime complaints totaled 198 with 15 of those pertaining to helicopter
operations. The top 4 complainants contributed 9 1% of complaints; however#81 was
responsible for 63% of the complaints. There has been no contact with this household which
we talked about at the last meeting. Internally we are going to draft up our own method of
communication and will reach out to this complainant in a non intrusive way. It has not been
the policy of MAC to seek information regarding complainants, however when people
supply their information we will contact then via letter. MAC will invite the complainant to
contact them and that's as far as they will take it. Tschohl asked what type of information is
given. Lewis replied the required information is address, airport, date, time and nature of the
complaint. They have the ability to select their own complaint/comments then MAC tries to
interpret the data. The complainant is not required to submit phone number or name. MAC
will send a letter to the address that has been submitted. Our goal is twofold; 1) MAC has
acknowledged the complaints received 2) the person who owns the household will be aware
that someone is submitting complaints from their address.
Sutila asked if that complainant was in the area of Pioneer Trail and Marshall Road. Lewis
responded it is almost straight out from Runway 28 left departure runway, going right over
the top of this household. Esbensen commented it was an area of town homes and upper
middle class single family homes. Lewis noted this person began submitting complaints in
June of 2012. Esbensen stated to his knowledge no one has talked with or complained to
any council members or the city manager about the noise issue. Lewis will report back to
the commission in September as to what the response was to the letter they sent. Tschohl
asked about the other 3 individuals in the top 4, if MAC has been in contact with them as
well. Lewis stated yes all three have been contacted. They have been logging complaints
since 2008. Household#30 submitted 32 complaints in May, #226 submitted 39 complaints
in May and#128 submitted 27 complaints in May. All the numbers are consistent in June. In
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June the top 4 households represented 90% of the complaints and again#81 representing
65% of the total complaints. Of the 460 complaints submitted in June, 298 of them were
submitted from household#81. Esbensen asked how the complaints were coming in; via
internet or phone, and was it a particular time of day. Esbensen wondered if there was a
pattern to the days/time of the week. Lewis stated there didn't seem to be a particular
pattern;however she would look into that and report back to the commission. Tschohl asked
how many of them were correlated to Flying Cloud complaints. Lewis said the majority of
them were, however, she didn't have that data with her. She recalled there was a mixture,
but didn't want to venture a guess until further research.
Tschohl asked about the run up complaints and portable noise monitoring out at the airport.
Are we still monitoring those? Lewis stated MAC is not using portable noise monitoring for
the reliever airports. They do have a portable noise monitoring process that is part of the
MSP community outreach and utilization of the portable noise monitoring goes through the
noise oversight committee for MSP. We do not have a formalized program to monitoring
noise at reliever airports. The commission could decide to submit a proposal to the MAC on
how to handle the request. It isn't something we do generally for everyone, we would have
to develop a process and criteria how we would choose which locations and other requests
that may come in. Tschohl asked if#81 continues to send in complaints we as a commission
may ask for monitoring for that household. Esbensen stated look how far out from Marshall
Road the area is. Lewis stated it seems to be right where the aircraft make the turn. In the
month of May there were 19 households that submitted complaints, one household driving
the 292 complaints.
Lewis agreed to provide a summary report as to how many complaints correlate with Flying
Cloud, which ones are not correlated with Flying Cloud and what kinds of aircraft they are
as it seems like it is regular activity that generates the complaints. It will be interesting to
know if this person responds to our letter when we send it out. Even in our letter we could
invite them to come to a commission meeting and see what happens. Tschohl stated the
outreach approach is something that has worked for us in the past when we have had these
outliers.
Lewis stated the commission report for June indicates 460 complaints which is 400% more
than what were submitted in 2012. The huge increase is attributed to one household. 40% of
the complaints are related to nighttime activity. That number is also greater, almost a 100%
increase but fewer households. 14 households in 2013 compared to 16 in 2012. When we
look at operators that generated complaints during the nighttime hours, 12 operators were
identified in June 2013 compared to 15 in June of 2012 so that's a bit of an improvement. In
May we did have 35 operators that generated letters compared to 29 in 2012, which is a bit
of an increase in the number of letters in May.
When we look at helicopter operations the numbers of operations being correlated to
helicopters is greater. We are doing some extra steps to identify helicopter operations at
Flying Cloud because we do see there are an increased number of concerns about the
helicopter operations. We even had the little red helicopter show up again, but surprisingly
no one complained about that. Nawrocki stated that helicopter was associated with the
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mosquito control. The numbers of complaints that were generated were actually correlated
with unknown aircraft. Most of the helicopter operations come through as unknown in our
data. Most are operating VFR which doesn't include any identification as it comes through
the flight tracking system. Most helicopters will be unknown. MAC is trying to use other
methods to tag them. Tschohl asked will you be looking at things like slower speed, lower
altitude, tight maneuvering. Lewis stated they listen to radio transmission, do look at speed
and altitude we also ask and get observations from the tower if there is a question. That
makes it easy for us. When we are not sure, we don't monkey with it.
Lewis reported there have been no Stage 2 operations reported since June, 2012. We have
gone 12 months without any Stage 2 operations.
Tschohl talked about the phasing out of the civil stage 2 by the end of 2015. In the July 2nd
edition of the Federal Register it talks about the final rule the FAA published regarding a
map on civil stage 2 aircraft. The FAA reauthorizing bill passed a year and a half ago
included the phasing out of civil stage 2 aircraft. Part of that law included instructions to the
FAA on how to carry out that band because without change in the regulations it is
essentially an unenforceable law. There are 599 stage 2 aircraft left in the United States.
Exceptions include experimental certificates to stage 3 regulation engines and air shows.
What is the impact in Eden Prairie? There have not been any stage 2 aircraft at Flying Cloud
for a year. It will have minimal effect, aside from air shows which those aircraft would be
operating under an experimental certificate. The only two states that are outside of the
regulation are Alaska and Hawaii.
Lewis discussed the effect on the final agreement with the City of Eden Prairie regarding
engines with hush kits or re-engineering. The City may want to review the requirements in
the final agreement. Basically there will never be a violation of that and I'm thinking that's
a good thing. The purpose of the rule was to track operations and if there were over 75
operations in a rolling 12 month period, that would be a violation of the agreement. The
MAC would be committed to engage in the part 161 process that would ban those types of
aircraft at Flying Cloud. There is not a point to that. Not sure what the City's approach
would be—if the agreement would be modified or if that piece of the agreement becomes
satisfied. This is something the MAC will still track based on type, we don't gage if the
aircraft has had a hush kit or re-engine or any other technical modifications done to it. MAC
still assumes they are a stage 2 which a letter is sent. It is up to the operator to respond to the
letter stating what type of aircraft it is.
Tschohl asked if this is something we want to bring to the City in a memorandum or wait
until the MAC comes to the city. Walt until 2016; see what the stage 2 aircraft traffic is.
Esbensen stated he didn't see a need to proactively go after the point and spend money on
both sides for attorney's fees, etc. He will advise the City Council on the status. The belief is
those type of aircraft will be done; owners wouldn't want to spend the money to upgrade the
engines, so it becomes a mute point.
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D. LANDSCAPE ISSUE LETTER
MAC recently received a letter from Robert Cody, HOA president of the Hennepin Village
Association regarding the dead trees along the south end of the airport. Background: In
2009 the City of Eden Prairie and MAC worked with the Hennepin Village association
regarding the dying trees on the burm on the south end of the airfield. In the spring of 2010
20 trees died.
Nawrocki stated the trees will be replaced on Monday, July 15. The MAC is still committed
to replace the 15 trees and plant an additional 9 trees behind CH Robinson. They are also
trying to be sensitive to the residents in the area. Tschohl asked why so many trees had died
out there? Nawrocki stated the explanation from the State Arborist is because of the harsh
winter many of the trees died off. They will be replaced with a variety of hardy trees.
Tschohl asked why was locust trees were planted. Nawrocki didn't know, but stated this
time there will be a variety of trees for a balance.
Nawrocki talked with Mr. Cody regarding the process for replacing the trees and he was ok
with the plan. Cody was going to relay the information to the board. Nawrocki said he has
been and would continue to be available to meet with the Hennepin Village Association
board to talk about issues as they eb and flow.
VI. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
VII. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
Chief Esbensen reported on June 12, 2013 there was a small jet that went off the runway at
Flying Cloud Airport. There were no injuries resulting from the crash. Esbensen stated it
wasn't a big deal, the life safety emergency response team responded.
Nawrocki stated the response from the Eden Prairie Police and Fire was outstanding. The
communication between the control tower and responders worked out well.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
A. QUARTERLY MEETING
Esbebsen asked the commission how they felt about changing the commission meetings from
once every other month to quarterly. The reason he was proposing this change is because the
commission really hasn't had any burning issues to be resolved. If there is an issue that
arises, a special meeting can be called at that time. Tschohl asked how to communicate this
to the council since the meeting schedule was approved by them. Esbensen didn't think the
council would be opposed to the change; the commission would need to keep them informed
of pressing issues. The commission members present were supportive of the idea, as well as
the MAC representative.
MOTION: Motion was made by Tschohl, seconded by Pratten, to keep the September 12,
2013 airport tour at 3:00 with no meeting following; next meeting October 10, 2013. The
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July 11, 2013
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2014 meeting schedule would be January 9, April 10, July 10 and October 9. The motion
carried 4-0.
IX. OTHER BUSINESS
A. VARIOUS FYI ITEMS
1. Airport Tour— September 12, 2013, 3:00 pm.
2. Next commission meeting October 10, 2013.
XII. ADJOURNMENT
Motion: Motion was made by Sutila, seconded by Hansen, to adjourn the meeting. The meeting
was adjourned at 7:55 p.m.