HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 02/07/2001 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD ADVISORY COMMISSION
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 2001 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
HERITAGE ROOM IV
8080 Mitchell Road, Eden Prairie
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Tom Heffelfinger, Jeff Larsen, Laura
Neuman, Gary Schmidt and Joe Smith
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Jeff Bauer
MAC REPRESENTATIVES: Roy Furhmann and Chad Leqve
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner
Richard Rosow, City Attorney
Carol Pelzel, City Recorder
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Heffelfinger called the meeting to order at 7:10 p.m. He explained that the purpose of this
meeting is to discuss alternatives to Ordinance 51 in light of the FAA letter received. Another
letter from the FAA had been received today which is also relevant to Ordinance 51.
Heffelfinger explained that a letter to the Commission had been received from the City Manager
stating that the City Council does not expect that the Commission will appoint one person to
speak on behalf of the entire Commission at its special public meeting to be held Saturday,
February 10, with respect to options available to the City to oppose the expansion of the airport.
Schmidt pointed out that MAC has been told that they will not be allowed to speak at that
meeting. Heffelfinger responded that that does not mean that his perspective could not be heard.
Schmidt said it was his understanding that only those people opposed to the expansion of the
airport would be heard. Smith said he feels it is not this Commission's position to be opposed to
the expansion of the airport. He indicated that a member of this Commission speaking at the
public meeting might give the impression that this Commission is opposed to the expansion.
Heffelfinger indicated that this would be discussed further under Item III C.
I. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was approved as published.
II. APPROVAL OF DECEMBER 4, 2000, MINUTES
Neuman asked that the first sentence of the last paragraph on Page 2 be changed to read
"Neuman questioned why Ordinance 51 was restricted to jets and not to all aircraft." She
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
February 7, 2001
Page 2
meant this to be a historical question rather than a statement. Smith asked that the first
sentence in the first paragraph of Page 4 read that........they may not be able to take off on
a runway........ rather than "they are not able to take off'. Fuhrmann asked that the second
sentence of the last paragraph be changed to "MAC agreed ..." rather than "MAC decided".
Fuhrmann also asked that the second sentence of the first paragraph on Page 5 read
"Furhmann said he personally doesn't feel three additional aircraft types would
significantly change the contour of the airport" rather than"... aircraft would significantly
change the contour of the airport".
MOTION: Neuman moved, seconded by Larsen, to approve the minutes as corrected.
Motion carried, 5-0.
III. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. Status of Revisions to the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS)
Schmidt reported that a supplement DEIS is being prepared which will show two
remaining alternatives —no build and proposed project. The proposed project includes
runway extensions, building area expansion and land acquisition. Aircraft noise
mitigation includes, among other things, voluntary aircraft use restrictions and MAC
Ordinance 51 is dropped. Heffelfinger asked in light of the fact that MAC intends to
delete Ordinance 51 altogether, he asked if MAC has any plans for future public
hearings. Schmidt responded that a 45-day comment period will follow the review of
the DEIS by the Commission. Heffelfinger asked when the decision was made to
abandon Ordinance 51. Schmidt explained that MAC did telephone the FAA for
clarification regarding Ordinance 51. The FAA indicated that they would not allow
Ordinance 51 to remain as it is. Heffelfinger pointed out that MAC has a legal
obligation to defend Ordinance 51 rather than abandon it. Schmidt pointed out that
Ordinance 51 as it stands today is not defendable. There are several reasons why
Ordinance 51 cannot remain unchallenged. The only reason the FAA has not had
complaints thus far is because MAC has asked the various groups not to complain
because MAC is working on a plan to their benefit. As far as a public hearing for
dropping Ordinance 51, Schmidt indicated that MAC has not yet decided what process
they will follow for Ordinance 51.
Schmidt said they had planned to make a presentation this evening with relevant
information regarding alternatives. However, if members of this Commission are going
to appear before the City Council to speak in opposition to the airport expansion,he is
not sure the presentation is meaningful. Schmidt indicated that they feel they have
been acting in good faith but it is clear to them that the City Council does not care to
hear what this Commission has to say. Heffelfinger said he is frustrated and angry with
the FAA for controlling the process. If there is any litigation the FAA should be
included and they also need to be involved in any settlement negotiations. Heffelfinger
said the Commission took the position that they would pursue a negotiated remedy and
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
February 7, 2001
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the issue to be presented at the City Council public meeting on Saturday is whether or
not this Commission can go forward in trying to seek a compromise. Heffelfinger said
it is his hope that this Commission can develop and present to the Council a position
statement that will be of assistance to them. Heffelfinger said he is suggesting that they
recommend to the City Council that whatever else they decide to do, they ask that this
Commission continue to seek an accommodation with MAC, the FAA and City
Council. Rosow explained that the Council does not want to put the Commission in a
bind of having to come to a position as a Commission. They are not asking members to
come forward on behalf of the Commission but they still want to hear from people
who have been on the Commission with respect to the agenda item. Their intent was so
that this Commission did not have to take a vote on a position. Schmidt said it is clear
to him that the City wants MAC to continue to participate but yet it is clear that they
want to file suit with justification. Schmidt questioned why MAC would continue to
work on a compromise if the ultimate goal is to file litigation.
Schmidt explained that when they started the Part 161 process they did have an
alternative to get voluntary agreements in place with the operators. This is primarily
the intent of Ordinance 51. Heffelfinger pointed out that this would not address the
limits on size of aircraft. Also, if MAC chooses to not participate with this
Commission in addressing issues regarding airport expansion, there is no future for
this Commission. Litigation is an option but this Commission would not suggest that.
They need to address procedures that could be pursued for using alternatives
independent of litigation. Heffelfinger said his view is not for the option to walk away.
They need to continue to look for solutions. The fact that the City Council is being
urged by many people to sue MAC is no surprise. Heffelfinger said he wants to go to
the Council on Saturday with a conciliatory message that there are options out there
and there are people out there who want to discuss those options. Smith said he agrees
with what Heffelfinger says,however, that is not what the letter received from the City
Manager states. The City Council has clearly stated that they want to hear from people
opposed to this expansion. This Commission needs to clarify that they are not being a
party to that meeting. If this Commission is to stay together as a working body they
have to be very careful in speaking to that regard. Neuman pointed out that the Council
has an obligation to look at and gather information from all agencies. They are the
City's governing body and representatives of the residents. They cannot be criticized
for doing what is part of their function. Larsen said he feels the City Council wants to
get ideas on what they should do in terms of legal ramifications. It appears that a
majority of the citizens are against the expansion and if the City Council follows that,
discussion is over and litigation will be filed. Larsen said he does not know what ideas
this Commission can develop that will be better than those they have developed over
the years. Heffelfinger explained that if this Commission took the position of
opposition it would not express the view of all of its members. Regardless of that,he
does believe it is important that this Commission express something to the City
Council. He would like to come up with one common statement. Heffelfinger asked if
it would be relevant and appropriate to say that as a Commission they do not and have
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
February 7, 2001
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not taken a position for or against the expansion of the airport. This Commission
includes representatives with all views on that subject and that is what this
Commission was established to do. As a Commission, their responsibility is to seek
solutions to the issues surrounding the expansion of the airport that attempt to
compromise the interest of the various groups. This Commission hopes the Council
will support them in their efforts to continue to move in that direction. It is also this
Commission's hope that the Council will ask MAC to continue participating as a
member of this Commission.
Schmidt pointed out that if the City does file litigation, it would be difficult for MAC
to participate on the Commission. Smith said he agrees with Heffelfinger's statement
and suggested that they include in the statement that this Commission would caution
the Council against moving down the path of litigation and to allow this group to do
their work. Heffelfinger said he feels they have to communicate to the City Council
that this Commission believes there is value in continuing discussion for negotiated
solutions.
Heffelfinger said he proposes that this Commission draft a short statement that could
be read at Saturday's meeting by two members of the Commission. Heffelfinger said
he feels that the City Council has endorsed this Commission's attempts to broker an
agreement with MAC. He feels it is appropriate for this Commission to make a
statement. Larsen said he agrees that such a statement should be drafted even though it
does not follow the Council's outline for that meeting. Heffelfinger said he does think
at this point there is some value to continue to meet and try to reach some type of
agreeable solution.
Heffelfinger explained that he would be unable to attend Saturday's meeting and asked
that Smith and Neuman present the Commission's statement to the City Council.
Neuman stated that her preference is to submit the statement in writing because the
special meeting has a very specific agenda. She does not feel this meeting is the place
to submit this Commission's statement. Neuman said she would decline from reading
this statement. Larsen said he would have no problem with presenting the statement
with Smith and he feels this statement needs to be presented verbally. Heffelfinger said
he would draft a statement to be distributed to all Commission members for their
review and approval prior to Saturday's meeting.
MOTION: Smith moved, seconded by Larsen, to prepare a written statement
presenting the Commission's view on the expansion of Flying Cloud Airport to be read
at the February 10, 2001, special City Council public meeting. The motion carried
unanimously.
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February 7, 2001
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B. Alternatives Regarding Ordinance 51
Leqve briefly reviewed the contents of a presentation that MAC was going to make at
this meeting regarding alternatives to Ordinance 51. Heffelfinger said they have FAA
problems that are making Ordinance 51 a challenge and if this item goes to litigation
he said he would not expect that MAC would send anyone to the table with the
authority to bind MAC to specific alternatives. It his hope they would send someone
with the authority to discuss alternatives or present ideas and information. If these
solutions appear workable it is his hope that they go back and seek authority. Schmidt
said he is sure there would be an interest in settling. Heffelfinger suggested that MAC
talk to their General Counsel to see if they would be willing to draft an agreement that
any conversation taking place with this Commission as part of a settlement or potential
litigation cannot be used in litigation. Heffelfinger said he would be willing to
recommend that the City enter into such an agreement with MAC.
Heffelfinger said he feels they need to focus on different solutions and he is interested
in a compromise that preserves the fundamental character of this airport without
compromising and still allowing economic growth and while at the same time
recognizing the changes in technology. Smith said he does not see the character of the
airport changing with the proposed expansion. Viewing the expansion as an operator
he sees the industry changing. Fundamentally, what has changed is the industry and the
environment is what has driven this change. Smith explained that making this airport a
hub for Mesaba or Federal Express is a character change. Neuman said as a resident,
she feels that the character of the neighborhood is affected by the size of the planes,
noise level and number of planes.
Smith said he did consider the noise footprint as a means for measuring the character
of the airport. He suggested that they look at the noise footprint as if Ordinance 51
does not exist and the airport has a 5,000-foot runway. Neuman said she would like to
see the noise footprint extended beyond the 60 DNL so that the rest of the Eden Prairie
residents can see how their noise levels will change with the expansion. Fuhrmann
responded that some of this information is to be included in the supplement to the EIS
and will be part of the presentation. Anything beyond community noise in urban
settings can run 55+in DNL levels as well. They can go with 60 DNL with some
degree of confidence. The model is designed to look at an impact at 65 DNL and when
they go below 55 DNL the accuracy starts to decrease.
Heffelfinger said he feels the City has to defend Ordinance 51 and MAC should be true
to their commitment to defend Ordinance 51. Schmidt stated that MAC does have
letters of intent from the operators on voluntary agreements and they are intending to
follow through on those.
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
February 7, 2001
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C. Flying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission's Presentation at February 10, 2001
City Council Workshop
(See Item III. A. above.)
D. Bearman's Bluff Development Proposal
Kipp presented the plans for Bearman's Bluff Development on the west side of the
airport. The developer is in the process of asking for approval and is scheduled to
appear before the Planning Board on February 26. The development is proposed to
include 29 homes. Smith asked if the City feels this is a compatible land use. Kipp said
it is based on the City's comprehensive plan. Fuhrmann pointed out that there is some
question as to whether or not the property owner is proposing the development to get
MAC to move forward with acquisition yet MAC has a hard time to move forward
until the Ordinance 51 issue is resolved. It does come into the safety zone under the
proposed expansion of the airport. Heffelfinger said he is not prepared to make a
motion on this development.
Kipp reported that there is another project under construction on the northwest corner
of Highway 212 and Pioneer Trail. This is a single story office/industrial building and
will be compatible with the airport operations.
Both of these projects have been submitted to the MAC for its review and comment.
IV. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
A. Noise Complaints for October through December, 2000
Leqve provided the Commission with noise complaints for Flying Cloud Airport from
October 2000 through November 2000 and December 2000 through January 2001 for a
total of five complaints.
V. OTHER BUSIENSS
A. Term Expirations
Kipp presented a copy of the 2001 Schedule and Appointment Process for Boards and
Commissions. He explained that Jeff Bauer's term as an airport business representative
expires as well as Jeff Larsen and John Smith's terms as resident representatives. John
Smith is no longer eligible to serve on the Commission because he has moved from the
City and will need to be replaced. Joe Smith said Jeff Bauer will not be seeking
another term and will need to be replaced. Jeff Larsen said he has applied to be
reappointed.
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
February 7, 2001
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B. Public Comments
Floyd Hagen asked that MAC's noise footprint go out to 55 DNL. This would include
a substantial number of residential buildings and sites in Eden Prairie and he feels it
would be informative. Hagen said he is very concerned about the noise levels.
Gary Demee asked if it would be possible for MAC as a landlord to charge more for
airplanes that operate at night. This would be an indirect influence for daytime activity
rather than nighttime activity. He also suggested that they have maximum ascent or
decent during various times of the year. Heffelfinger explained that there is a noise
abatement plan at this airport that does include some of the things. Schmidt pointed
out that MAC does not charge a landing fee at the airport. This would require someone
being out there to monitor the landings and they are not allowed to have discriminatory
access restrictions.
C. Next Regularly Scheduled Meeting
Heffelfinger recommended that the Commission meet the first part of March. One of
the issues to be discussed would be real estate leases and whatever arrangements MAC
have with the tenants. He asked that one of MAC's real estate lawyers attend the
meeting to explain the parameters of what they can and cannot do as landlords.
Heffelfinger said he is interested in discussing whether or not MAC feels there are
options available.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Smith moved, seconded by Larsen, to adjourn the meetiniz. The motion carried
unanimously. The meeting was adjourned at 9:25 p.m.