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HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolden Triangle - 08/08/2002 UNAPPROVED MINUTES GOLDEN TRIANGLE LAND USE MULTI-MODAL TRANSPORTATION EVALUATION THURSDAY,AUGUST 8, 2002 10 A.M. CITY CENTER Prairie Rooms A&B 8080 Mitchell Road HOISINGTON KOEGLER GROUP INC. Mark Koegler, President J. Russell Fifield, Strategic Planner Brad Scheib, Community Planner HENNEPIN COUNTY Larry Blackstad, Community Works Division Manager, Dept. of Transit and Community Works MINNESOTA DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION Al Kraemer, Metro Development SOUTHWEST METRO TRANSIT John Kragness CITY STAFF David Lindahl, Manager, Housing & Redevelopment Authority; Gene Dietz, Director, Public Works; Michael Franzen, City Planner; Steve Sinell, City Assessor; Randy Newton, Traffic Engineer Peggy Rasmussen, Recorder Koegler explained that the meeting was being held to continue a discussion of land-use options in the GTA (GTA), geared toward the City Council Workshop on August 22. Two land-use concepts would be reviewed and the challenges discussed. The first concept presented was "Current Trends." Koegler said there is a fairly obvious pattern developing in the GTA that will continue if the City doesn't become more involved in redevelopment. This concept shows proposed high-density residential (16+ units per acre) in the northeast and south-central portions of the triangle, with regional commercial and neighborhood commercial in the northwest. One developer owns a large part of the area northwest of Highway 212, where high-density residential, office and neighborhood commercial is the proposed land use. The southeast property, where high-density residential is proposed, is owned by the Vikings football team. Koegler said the regional commercial area around Shady Oak Road and Highway 212 might be redeveloped by a large-scale user such as CostCo. Other commercial opportunities are appropriate for more service-oriented businesses and may include a local element. Koegler said his company will have traffic tests conducted for those areas. Housing units generate a lower traffic volume. Larger-scale commercial could generate more traffic. GOLDEN TRIANGLE LAND USE MEETING MINUTES August 8, 2002 Page 2 Lindahl said the City would have to be open-minded about some of these proposals, but may not have to facilitate the financing. Koegler said other assistance from the City, in addition to zoning would be needed. The second concept presented was "Public-Private Opportunities." Koegler said blending of public and private resources is needed to accomplish this concept. Mid-density residential (9-15 units per acre) is proposed in the south-central portion of the GTA, along with high-density residential and office. Proposed new entrances to the site are at the intersection of Flying Cloud Drive and Highway 169, and at Washington Avenue and Highway 494. The impact of that on the transportation and transit systems needs to be determined. Regional commercial is proposed south of the entrance at Flying Cloud Drive and Shady Oak Road, with the Transit Station relocated to the southeast corner of the intersection. Koegler said if larger-scale retail comes in eventually, all retail will want to be at these locations. This concept seeks to have higher-density residential next to a large commercial operation like Best Buy. Fifield gave an analysis of the financial feasibility of the two concepts. He said there are three facets to consider. One is market demand. The second is matching the land to its use. The third is looking at the overall possibility of private development. Two questions should be considered. What would it take for the concepts to be financially feasible, and how might the City, as a public body, close the economic gap? He believes the uses proposed have relevance in the Eden Prairie marketplace. It would make sense financially to purchase land for larger-scale retail and townhomes. This would be a redevelopment setting because it is not vacant land. Where there are smaller sites the City wants to compile for redevelopment, it should be prepared to do that. Even if a site is available for the process of land redevelopment, developers want a site ready to go. The City would have to acquire the property and tear down what is there in order to redevelop the land. That is the economic gap facing the City. However, in order to establish a Tax Increment Financing District the City would have to show that the land has a physical blight rather than an economic one. When a TIF is created, and when buildings are removed, the City is not getting dollar for dollar. The planning, collaboration and implementation might have to be more toward tax abatement rather than tax increment. Tax abatement has more validity in this setting. Redevelopment also involves infrastructure, and the City would have to be prepared for that economic equation. Lindahl said he anticipated questions would be asked at the August 22 Council Workshop, such as, "How can we make it work and implement it over the next 20 years?" "How would the City make the road work happen?" Lindahl asked how Fifield would answer those questions. Also, the City has very little experience in TIF. Lindahl asked Fifield to review the pros and cons. Fifield replied projects like this are going to require large-scale policy-makers to think about it. The goal in a redevelopment project is to not have to spend much money. There is a need for the City to make some sort of investment. However, some occurs because of private investment. Sinell asked how much of a gap is there between what investors are willing to pay and the redevelopment cost. Fifield replied he didn't know the answer to that. His company has worked with alternative land uses and thought about what is most feasible. The public policy question is how much the City will spend to remove the barriers to development. The City can still ask investors for a reasonable price for the land. GOLDEN TRIANGLE LAND USE MEETING MINUTES August 8, 2002 Page 3 Sinell said if the City decides to go into redevelopment, it would assume there is a willing seller and that it won't buy any properties at market value. But if it has to induce the owner to participate, the offer would have to be more than the market value and could be a huge price. Fifield said the City would have to be willing to offer enough for the land if it is believed to be in the best interest of the City. Eventually the City would have to condemn the property if it can't be obtained any other way. Lindahl asked what the major fiscal impacts of each concept are. What would be the difference between taxes imposed by the City and the County? The first concept converts much industrial and commercial to residential. Fifield replied you have to think about how the taxable value alters the fiscal disparity. Some people would say replacing industrial with residential is beyond the scope of what the City has committed to do. Franzen said when you think about putting a plan together, you almost have to acquire the whole thing at once, because if acquisition is piecemeal, the residential would still be surrounded by industrial. He questioned whether people would buy housing in that setting. Fifield replied that wide-scale redevelopment won't happen all at once. Implementing this plan means asking, what does the City see as the main area to begin redevelopment, and what core elements does it need in place to support that? Developers have been pioneers in that area. The City probably would support it on finding some pieces available for redevelopment in the core of the area, so when anchored by the ends this would continue to evolve outward. Sinell said the City only has tax abatement and tax increment financing of qualifying projects for financing tools. Abatement means abating taxes and increasing the levy. What is in it for other taxpayers in the City? Fifield replied the goal is to be finished with tax abatement at some point. A further goal is to make investments in order to make private development happen over time. If a public body doesn't do anything, private parties will take it over. The City will reach a point where it will be harder for the private sector to come in without some sort of assistance from the City. Sinell said the City is almost at that point now. However, he believed the impetus for this study was problems with the traffic in and out of the GTA. What is in there affects the traffic and the traffic doesn't work the way the market wants it to work. Lindahl said traffic was the catalyst, but beyond that it was decided to evaluate alternative land uses to help with the traffic problems, and economically it makes more sense. Across the City there is a nice mix of various land uses, so redevelopment might be worth consideration. Koegler said everybody on the consulting team knows this study is traffic-oriented. There are many empty buildings now and years from now they may not be accessible, so it becomes an issue because of the configuration of the space. Sinell said there is 20 percent vacancy for office and industrial space all over, not just in the GTA and Eden Prairie. Fifield said if the money isn't available to reinvest, the GTA becomes a fiscal blight as well as an economic one. Blackstad stated there is a transportation problem in the Golden Triangle, and the goal is to try to decide what is the best way to incorporate transit and future uses of the area. There are multiple issues to consider. GOLDEN TRIANGLE LAND USE MEETING MINUTES August 8, 2002 Page 4 Fifield said one thing to consider is, if you put a mixture of land uses together do they all support one another? Not necessarily, but they can. If you create a desirable residential community, the more consistent the transportation system gets, the more attractive that becomes as an alternative. Dietz referenced the "Current Trends" option. He thought the City would have to force the development community to do certain things. Part of the idea was that as redevelopment opportunities came up because of building obsolescence, staff was looking at what it would take to make it economically feasible for redevelopment. They wondered what it would take to scale back and make it compatible with the traffic issues. Perhaps if more residential were put in, that might take care of the traffic problem. On the "Current Trends" map, it shows the market would be willing to put high-density residential north of Viking Drive, but that doesn't show on the "Public-Private Opportunities" map. Koegler replied they wanted to show a scenario where the Vikings property might be available. It would take a little road realignment to put high-density redevelopment to the north. Fifield pointed out the "Current Trends" option doesn't mean no involvement by the City; the north part would need City involvement. Dietz said it wouldn't be prudent to go to the Planning Board and Council without having some idea about what the investment and return is going to be. He was concerned that they would be enthusiastic about the second scenario before they know it is going to cost the City a great deal of money. Koegler asked if they weren't going to show them both options. Lindahl replied the Council would be told these are a couple of scenarios they can go with. Koegler said this meeting on August 22 with the Council will be a staff progress report and the mission will be to report that this is what the market says the City can do and show them a couple of land-use options. The consultants will go forward to look into the transportation issues connected with the options. The Council will not be left in a vacuum. The model will show where the differences will be. The two options represent opposites regarding financing problems and land-use problems. The presenters will move toward answering where the group stands between the two extremes. Sinell said he would suggest also show a "do nothing" option, which is to wait for properties to redevelop. Lindahl said the office market will be back eventually and there will be pressure to develop those sites. That is not shown on the "Current Trends" map. In addition to residential, there will be other development into higher-density office. Franzen said this would be easier if it were the only part of the City on the Council's agenda that they want to fix. Other projects will sway the Council toward them. At the local level the Council gets involved in current issues rather than creating new neighborhoods. Council needs to hear it will take a certain level of commitment if they want to do it. Dietz said he expected it would be part of the City's plan to determine where they want to go with the area in the middle of the GTA between now and 20 years out. The question is knowing when the time is ripe for redevelopment and how much should it be forced early on. GOLDEN TRIANGLE LAND USE MEETING MINUTES August 8, 2002 Page 5 Lindahl said one thing that would have helped is if City had taken the initiative to make road improvements and changes consistent with a plan. Making connections would be of substantial benefit to transportation over the long run and make it financially feasible. That would set the stage for future development and what happens around land-use development. Franzen inquired if you were asked how you were going to plan a commercial area, how would you do it? A commercial area creates balance in a good neighborhood. Sinell said when he looked back over the past 22 years the community has tended to go with the market. Over time, the City changed land uses in various areas all over town if the market showed it was ready for it. If the Council decided this is the future trend for the GTA, he wondered if the City would say it is willing to change the Guide Plan. Blackstad said redevelopment is the key. The City has had vacant land to work with. Now it is approaching build-out, and the whole process changes, so it has to deal with these questions of changing land use. Now the City has to look at it in terms of transportation questions. Lindahl said the City could amend its Guide Plan if it wishes. In 1987 or 1988, when the City was doing a Major Center traffic study, it considered changing the land use to lower the volume of traffic. Landowners then said they were not interested in selling. Franzen said they could have a dual classification for the Guide Plan; that is, guide it office but add residential to it so the City will have a choice in the future. Koegler said he didn't know of any City Council or City officials that would massively reguide and rezone an area. However, they could make it a dual classification or treat it as a redevelopment project. You are focusing on a piece of this; looking at all of this simultaneously is very difficult. Dietz said there is a developer's agreement on each one of these developed parcels about what was approved, so the City has a great deal of power to force this. When the time is right, the City can put money into it and then let the marketplace react to it. The idea of realigning Washington Avenue into Shady Oak Road would be a good public investment and would get things started in the GTA. Koegler said it is apparent how big the task is. The policy side is to decide when to start creating enough laws to effect this outcome. He believed they had to consider the impacts of this kind of change relative to the rest of Eden Prairie and the Major Center area. Dietz said the City has been looking at what to do with the Major Center area. If the GTA is going to be competing for the same dollars, then the Major Center area would come out on the top. Lindahl said there is no place for a CostCo-type business there, but perhaps the City could provide places for CostCo and others to build in the Golden Triangle. Sinell asked if we have to use redevelopment dollars to do it, what is the difference if we spend them in the Major Center area; that is spot zoning. Franzen said he would look at it as part of the community, not as spot zoning. Koegler said his group would be better able to guide the economics of this for the August 22 meeting. GOLDEN TRIANGLE LAND USE MEETING MINUTES August 8, 2002 Page 6 Sinell asked if there is an Edinborough concept included in the middle of the second plan. Koegler replied that they have talked about it. If the City were going to have an Edinborough concept, farther south would be a better location. It needs a neighborhood core. Lindahl asked if that could be a third scenario. People relate to the Edinborough concept. Koegler said they were looking at retail and housing options, and that concept would have better applications in other portions of the area. Scheib said they looked at industrial buildings in the Golden Triangle, and there is probably a market for service-oriented shops that could fit into industrial use,provided the residential capacity is there to support it around the clock. Lindahl asked if they shouldn't also be showing other redevelopment sites as office or other uses in the "Current Trends" scenario. Koegler replied they looked at high-density office as being counterproductive, given what is happening today. Fifield added that if they were going to go to high-density office that has the same problem economically as high-density housing. Lindahl said some staff would believe high-density office would be a good idea. In the future it would be. Dietz said we might want to force that to happen in the south portion. Sinell said his perspective is that the neighborhood to the east would want high-density office, and wondered how the two proposed concepts work out regionally. Lindahl said his experience on the I-494 Corridor Commission showed him that Eden Prairie has been more concerned about traffic because of regional issues. Bloomington doesn't want to rebuild until the road is way over capacity. The regional system is still not good, but in the GTA the meters are working better now, with a shorter time span between lights. Newton said meters used to be a major problem,but there are still other traffic problems. Blackstad said the question is, are we going to do something that makes this area more attractive and create some balance within the area? That is the discussion around the region. Sinell said there's a front-end cost that has to be spent by the City to make the concept go. Lindahl wondered if there are any other resources, regional, state or federal, that could be obtained for implementation of this project. Blackstad replied that money is tight right now. Fifield asked if there has been much thought given to how to get more funding. Lindahl wondered about the possibility of obtaining "Smart Growth" money, or if there will be more large-scale planning money. Koegler answered that a lot of those funds were used for demonstration projects. Blackstad said compared to what the City needs for the GTA, that would not be enough money. One site would more than consume all of it. Lindahl said he would like the Southwest LRT line to go through here. Kragess said if the LRT is built that should benefit both land use and transit. A new town in Chaska, like Jonathan, could bring money into this project. Franzen asked if the Met Council has been talking about suburban planning. Scheib said redevelopment and transportation development are key components of the Met Council's plan, with a regional emphasis. That will be a priority for them. GOLDEN TRIANGLE LAND USE MEETING MINUTES August 8, 2002 Page 7 Blackstad said if we can get a reduction in traffic, perhaps it would not be necessary to build another lane. That would be a trade-off between the two elements. Scheib said if they can soften the traffic issues that might be a possibility. Blackstad wondered how to figure out a way to create those opportunities so people don't have to get onto the freeway. That way everybody benefits. Fifield said one challenge is to get people in a suburban setting to give up some yard space to get the assets of high-density housing. Blackstad responded the City would need to spell out the assets. If it is built it will sell,because of the reputation of the community and its enhancements. Lindahl led a discussion on the presentation to the City Council at a Workshop on August 22. The meeting adjourned at 11:45 a.m.