HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity and School Facility Use Advisory Committee - 12/03/2003 APPROVED MINUTES
CITY AND SCHOOL FACILITY USE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
WEDNESDAY,DECEMBER 3,2003 7:00 PM, CITY CENTER
Heritage Room I
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: David Larson, Chair; Kathy Bykowski, Cari Grayson
(arrived at 7:15 p.m.), Nancy Holden (arrived at 7:10
p.m.), Phil Rose and Phil Young
COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT: Jeanne Zetah, Director of Community Education
Services; Laurie Obiazor, Manager of Recreation
Services; Mike Grant, High School Activities Director;
Lyndell Frey, Recreation Coordinator; Cheryl Bridge,
Facilities Coordinator; Jill Johnson, High School
Activities Coordinator; Bob Lambert, Director of Parks
&Recreation Services; and Carol Pelzel, Minutes
Secretary
I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order by Chair Larson at 7:05 p.m. Larson asked that the Commission
members review the member listing and to please let staff know if they have any changes to that listing.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Motion: Motion was made by Rose, seconded by Young, to approve the agenda as presented. The
motion carried, 4-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. October 1,2003
Motion: Motion was made by Young, seconded by Rose, to approve the October 1, 2003, minutes as
published. The motion carried unanimously.
IV. ITEMS OF BUSINESS
A. Recommendations from Subcommittee on Public Use of City and School Facilities
Lambert reported that at this Committee's last meeting they talked about some issues that needed to
be addressed regarding use of both City and School athletic fields by the various athletic
associations. A meeting with all of the outdoor Athletic Associations, except football, was held on
November 19. At that meeting staff reviewed with the associations the existing policy for use of City
fields adopted by the City in 1997. It was agreed that in order to avoid a breakdown of
communication in the future, they have to commit to having a meeting each November with the
associations to talk about policies and the association's requirements to continue to utilize the
various fields. The associations will be required to provide annual information to the City in order to
continue to use the fields.
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December 3, 2003
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Lambert said they did discuss subleasing fields, which really was the issue that brought this together
and explained some examples of what was going on. They did have a good discussion as to why
subleasing fields to other groups is a concern. The conditions of the fields and the possibility of
going out for a referendum asking residents to approve an increase in taxes to expand some facilities
at Flying Cloud were discussed as reasons for not subleasing the fields. Eden Prairie taxpayers
should not pay for fields that are being subleased by associations for use by non Eden Prairie groups.
Lambert said the associations understood and agreed to discontinue subleasing the fields. The
associations also did not have a problem with the City's policies.
They also discussed an increase in fees and charges for clinics, camps and tournaments. The fees are
based on direct costs and not on what is paid for overtime or supplies. Everyone agreed that the fees
are fair and are less than what some cities are charging but are also higher than some others. Eden
Prairie is in the top 25 percent of what other cities are charging. Lambert stated that Grant did
explain that they may be looking at replacing facilities with artificial turf which is the only way they
will be able to provide facilities for lacrosse and soccer. Staff feels that five years from now it may
be a common practice to have artificial turf and ten years from now most suburban communities will
have one or two artificial turf fields. For example, Miller Park averages 240 events per field per year.
Turf experts indicate that turf fields cannot withstand more than 50 events per year without
degradation.
Grant explained that School staff does meet on a yearly basis with the various associations and their
meeting has already taken place. Grant said he felt the most important thing that came out of that
meeting is that on-going discussions need to take place. The City and School District want to work
with the various groups to provide safe facilities for kids to use and they need to work together to
make sure they don't overuse certain fields. Grant said he too feels that in the future there will be
multiple artificial turf fields. Lacrosse is the driving force for these types of facilities. It is a spring
sport and they cannot put lacrosse on the fields without destroying them. Once the problem of
overuse of fields is solved, the School District will support lacrosse. Frey pointed out that most
spring sports start May 1. Lacrosse wants to start practices March 1.
Grant suggested that once they have received the schedule and preference for use of the fields, they
sit down with the City to review all of the requests and see how as a City and School District they
can meet those needs and requests. Grant said he would like to see them work together to meet the
requests that are reasonable. Both the City and School District have the same philosophy for meeting
the needs of the community.
Zetah pointed out that the City's policy for use of public facilities does not match the School
District's policy. Also,the City's guidelines state that City staff would recommend limiting
reservations of any public facilities for camps, clinics, and lesson programs to programs that have a
minimum of 50 percent of Eden Prairie residents. This does not coincide with the School District's
guidelines.
Grant pointed out that the City and School District do have different Mission Statements for rental of
facilities. The School District's mission statement is much different for facilities than it is for fields,
the City's mission statement for the Community Center is different than for it's outdoor fields.
Lambert pointed out that what they are discussing this evening is just for outdoor fields.
Zetah explained that the School District does schedule fields for some outside groups. If this
Committee approves this proposed policy, staff will have to go to the School Board and make a
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December 3, 2003
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recommendation that their policy change. Lambert said he questions whether or not the School
District should be renting out soccer fields for profit and then turn around and cut off Eden Prairie
kids from using the same fields because they have been overused. Lambert said that is the reason
they are suggesting that the proposed policy be adopted by the City and School District. Grant said it
is his feeling that the School District and City do not need identical policies. Lambert explained that
when the School District shuts down a field because of overuse many times those activities are
shifted to City fields. Lambert said he feels the City and School District should be talking about
consistent policies on the use of these fields.
Johnson explained that the School District does have unique situations and their policy does differ
from the City's with those unique situations,however,their philosophy remains the same. If the
School District's policy is changed it may negatively affect groups other than the soccer club. For
example, those groups affected would include Relay for Life and the Cub Scouts. Johnson pointed
out that the School's fields are available to the community first. Lambert said there are a number of
organizations out there for a good cause but are not Eden Prairie residents. He also pointed out that it
may be difficult to sell artificial turf fields to the residents of Eden Prairie if they know that they are
allowing non-resident groups use to contribute to the overuse of these fields.
Grant stated that the rental received on the fields goes into the total rental amount that staff is
expected to generate. He said he would hate to lock the School District into a policy that limits their
ability to generate revenue. Lambert questioned how much revenue is generated by the School
District for field reservation use. If they move forward with a referendum, they will certainly be
asked the question of who is using the fields.
Young said that the City and School District have essentially the same tax base and use of these
fields by outside groups could hurt both the School District and the City. Lambert said a couple of
groups may not make a difference in the School District's deficit but they might make a difference
when the public is asked to pay for improvements when they find out that non-residents are renting
the fields. Rose pointed out that the soccer groups that come in to the City and uses their facilities
want to market to Eden Prairie kids. Lambert said that that is fine with him as long as the City
monitors the registrations and makes sure that the majority are Eden Prairie kids.
Lambert said the City's policy does not exclude Eden Prairie kids and if it is not an Eden Prairie
organization requesting use of the fields they are required to provide more proof that Eden Prairie
residents will be participating in their activity. Grant said he has no problem recommending to the
School Board and City Council that they promote use of fields for Eden Prairie residents. However,
at this point he is not able to say that they should have identical procedures or policies. Both
organizations have the same philosophy but they are run differently. Zetah explained that the outside
organizations are not allowed to use the School's facilities until all of the Eden Prairie groups are
accommodated. Rather than letting the facilities sit idle, they rent them out to generate revenue.
Lambert reminded Zetah they are not talking about indoor facilities,just outdoor fields. Grant said as
a District, they would need to discuss these policies further. They are not ready to say tonight that
they want to adopt the City's policies.
Rose said that at a previous meeting they did discuss getting newspaper coverage on the overuse of
the fields. Even though the City and School District do not have an identical policy they do have the
same philosophy. The School District may eventually have a referendum on these same issues and
they need to get this information out to the public. Larson suggested that they start with the School's
newsletter. Young said that they need to be careful about how this information is presented. If the
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public is aware that outside agencies are using these facilities that may affect both organizations.
Larson suggested that a topic for this Committee's next meeting could be how they present this
information to the public. Zetah suggested that this Committee make a recommendation to the City
Council and the School Board since the newspaper covers the meetings of both groups. Rose said this
would be a good topic to be discussed at the next joint School Board and City Council meeting.
Holden explained that they need to be clear on why they want press coverage and what their goals
are: Is it to gain support for a referendum or to educate people on the overuse of fields?Lambert said
he feels they need to talk to the press about the overuse of the fields. They need to educate the public
on how these fields are being overused. Grant said he feels the issue of the fields will come from the
community and not from the School Board. Grant suggested that in the spring they put out some facts
on the use of the fields. Bridge pointed out that the associations were not really aware of the overuse
of the fields. The public has no idea of how the overuse would affect their kids and the safety hazards
that may be presented. Residents see the fields not being used and have no idea they are being
overused. That information needs to get out to the public with safety being an important part of that.
Zetah said they must also educate the residents on the process for reserving fields. When they close
fields, the residents need to be made aware of this.
Holden said that as a resident in the community, she has always appreciated outside organizations
being able to use Eden Prairie fields so she doesn't have to drive all over the metro area for camps
and clinics. As a parent, she likes the convenience of having fields available for these camps. Holden
said she does feel it is fair to ask that a certain percentage of the kids participating in these camps be
from Eden Prairie or if they are not, they are charged differently. Holden said she also feels that they
should not have one set of policies for indoor facilities and one for outdoor facilities. Those policies
should be consistent. Lambert said that the City's and School District's policies for indoor facilities
are very similar. They do charge for use of those facilities and Eden Prairie residents have first
priority. There has to be a different policy for the use of outdoor facilities because too much use
costs taxpayers more and may result in unsafe facilities. That is not the same for a gymnasium,pool
or ice rink. Taxpayers should be concerned about outside private organizations using City facilities to
make money. Holden said it is her opinion that what the School District does should be the same for
indoor and outdoor facilities.
Grayson said that as a taxpayer in the community, she definitely wants to see that the residents of
Eden Prairie are served first and if usage and time allows for outside groups they be allowed to use
the facilities if they generate revenue for the School and/or City. Grayson said it will probably be
necessary to have a referendum and it will be difficult to pass a referendum if the residents see
outside organizations using these facilities.
Young explained that they must be clear that they are talking about outdoor fields and not indoor
facilities. They are having a problem with the outside facilities and these same issues do not pertain
to the indoor facilities.
Bykowski said that as this is her first meeting, she does not have the experience of the other
Committee members but as a parent and Eden Prairie resident she has participated in a number of
activities using the outdoor facilities. Bykowski said over the years she has become aware of the poor
conditions of the school fields. The fields do need to be preserved and maintained and it is important
that they keep the philosophy that Eden Prairie kids come first. Bykowski said she respects the fact
that the School and the City are different and they should not be required to have identical policies as
long as they believe that the residents of Eden Prairie come first. It appears that there are certain
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December 3, 2003
Page 5
policies in place and they seem to be working. Public education is tremendously important and the
conversation held this evening regarding the use of these fields is very timely.
Holden asked if the goal is to get turf fields or to maintain the current fields. Lambert responded that
turf fields are several years out. Holden suggested that they make the public aware of the fact that if
they don't maintain the existing fields it will cost approximately$400,000 for a turf field.
Lambert explained that the purpose of this meeting is to make both organizations aware of each
other's policy and fee structure and that they are both supportive of those items. Lambert suggested
that this information be discussed at the next joint City Council and School Board meeting.
Larson said that as an Eden Prairie citizen he is not confused about the policy or procedures and he
feels they should move forward as long as they continue to educate the associations on the use of the
fields. Larson said he still questions what they are going to do about the overuse of the fields and the
continued growth in the City. Larson responded that he did not think that it is the roll of this
Committee to determine what can be done about the overuse of the fields. Any requests that result in
a proposed referendum must come from the community. This includes athletic associations or
residents. Larson said the City has its policies and the School District has their policies and he is
comfortable with that.
Zetah suggested that the City and School get together to review the outdoor facilities usage to make
sure that local groups have their needs met first and decisions about the maximum use of the fields be
decided prior to opening them up to outside organizations. Lambert said they do not want to tie the
City or School District's hands by having a meeting every time a request for the use of a field is
received. Lambert pointed out that both organizations are in this together and if some outside group
comes in to run a clinic it would be a good idea to call each other to let them know that this will be
occurring.
Larson said there appears to be a policy in place and annual meetings with the associations will be
held. Lambert said they should not have a problem this year with outside organizations running
clinics on the City's facilities without the City's knowledge. It appears that they have resolved a lot
of issues through this whole process.
(Rose left the meeting at 8:30 p.m.)
Grant said the School District and City will continue to communicate their policies to each other and
will be consistent in Eden Prairie residents receiving first usage of the facilities. As they move
forward, they will resolve the issues of field usage together.
Motion: Holden moved, seconded by Bykowski, to continue to support the basic philosophy that the
City and School District will offer outdoor fields to Eden Prairie residents as priority and will limit
the use of any of those fields to outside groups not focusing their programs on Eden Prairie residents
and outside groups will be charged for use of those fields. The motion carried, 5-0.
B. Update on Meeting with Arts Commission and District Staff regarding Use of Performing Arts
Center and Old Auditorium
Zetah reported that the meeting of the Arts Commission and District Staff included the drama
teachers from the High School. They reviewed the schedule of events taking place at the Performing
CITY AND SCHOOL FACILITY USE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
December 3, 2003
Page 6
Arts Center. The facility is predominantly booked year round. Zetah said they also discussed the
timing for the regular plays and the difficulty of finding storage space for sets. They talked about
establishing a task force and the Arts Commission promoting arts with the community and school
district.
Grayson said it would be nice to be able to get information on the events being held by Community
Ed, the City and the School Arts Program from one location. People are missing out because they are
not sure where to get this information. The Arts Commission did discuss different ways to get the
information into a central location. That has since evolved into a task force bringing in different
people from the community to try and determine what people in the community want and the best
way to get the information to them. They are in the early stages of forming that task force. Lambert
said it might make sense to have a link to the various web pages. Grayson responded that that was
discussed and has not been ruled out,however,they must consider those residents who don't have
computer access. They have also talked about newsletters, flyers, etc. Holden asked how this would
be funded. Grayson explained that this is something that will also be discussed. Zetah pointed out
that the School District is in the process of doing a Community Arts Plan survey on the District's
web site asking residents to complete the survey and send it to the School District. This survey
includes issues about people participating in the arts and what they see as needs in the community.
Zetah said everyone seemed to come away with a greater appreciation for the Arts program. They
appreciate the City offering free programs and better understand why the School District charges.
The City has tried to get community members involved. The group also discussed how they could
help each other.
V. DISCUSSION ON ITEMS FOR NEXT MEETING
A. Next Meeting Date
1. March 3,2004
The Board agreed that the next meeting of the City and School Facility Use Advisory
Committee be held on March 3, 2004, at the High School.
2. Discussion Items for the Next Meeting
The Committee will discuss 2003 fees and charges to each organization and the results of the
community survey.
VI. OTHER
VIL ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 8:50 p.m.