HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity and School Facility Use Advisory Committee - 01/20/1999 UNAPPROVED MINUTES
CITY AND SCHOOL FACILITY USE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
JANUARY 20, 1999 7 : 00 P.M. CITY CENTER
Atrium Conference Room
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: David Steppat, Carol Bomben, Nancy
Tyra-Lukens .
COMMITTEE MEMBER ABSENT: Al Gaines, Niel Crocker, Donald Jacobson.
COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT: Jeanne Zetah, Director of Community
Education Services, Steve Schultz, High School Activities Director,
Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation, Lyndell Frey,
Community Center Manager.
COMMITTEE STAFF ABSENT: Laurie Helling
I . CALL TO ORDER
Meeting called to order at 7 : 05
II . APPROVAL OF AGENDA
(Not a Formal Meeting)
III . APPROVAL OF MINUTES (Not a Formal Meeting)
A. Approval of Minutes of May 20, 1998
IV. OLD BUSINESS
A. Update on Community Center Pool Projects -Mr. Frey
Mr. Frey explained there is sand in the pool now, it was
going to be replaced with lava rock,
We had a sand filter and we replaced that with two sand
filters, they are horizontal 36 diameter filters . It
gives us more room and we are able to put on ozone
protection, if we want to do that in the future . This
was the reason for the change in size and configuration
of it . The pool expert said we really ought to consider
going with this new media, made out of a lava rock,
crushed rock. You don' t have to backwash as often, and
it is supposed to take care of the combined chlorine
problem with chlorines . We had cloudy water, our H-Vac
system is working, we were having no problem with people
coughing and such, but it kept getting cloudier and
cloudier. It was not to the point where it was
dangerous . It was to the point where we had to shut it
down, because kids couldn' t turn their corners when
swimming. It was not a bacteria issue. When we changed
over, there is a bit of odor of chlorine in the air
again. Mr. Frey talked to the owner of Neptune Benson,
the company that put this in, the previous day, and they
said they have over 200 installations across the country.
This was the third pool that they have had a problem
with. All three of those pools had 36 inch diameter
horizontal filters . It was stated European countries
have used this product for 20 years, and in England which
is probably the most strict country as far as health
codes, they require a minimum of one meter depth in the
bed, and they are convinced that is the problem. They
have a new product coming out now that is a finer
granule, instead of a 3 ml granule, it is a 1 .2 ml ring.
A pool at MIT has used this finer granule, and they are
not having a problem since they converted. However, they
don' t have the amount of use we have in our pool .
Neptune Benson is willing at their cost to take the sand
out again, put this new finer granular material back in
our pool and try it . Mr. Frey stated he was willing to
do that, too .
The second part of that project was the H-Vac system. We
have yet to have the balancer out, to have that balanced.
The balance will give us a report on if that system is
working completely operational like it is supposed to be.
We have had a number of problems with that right up
until last week, the unit sitting on the roof was frozen
like a popcicle . No complaints of smells, or coughing.
Mr. Frey stated coughing was heard after they changed to
a sand filter on a Saturday/Sunday, and on Monday morning
in boys' practice Mr. Frey heard a couple of boys
coughing and the high school coach has asked what the
difference was, and it was explained we went back to a
sand filter. It was stated 990 of the pools in the metro
area are sand filters, and they are not having problems .
We were told that 95 0 of our problem in that pool is
going to be air exchange .
B. Update on District Facilities
Mr. Shultz indicated a need for foresight to anticipate things
that are going to come up a year from now as a precedent for
next year. We hired someone in the district in August, to be
the manager of the facility. In August the facility was
supposed to be done, or at least the field was supposed to be
done . The field did not get completed until November. We
were not able to use it as a fall facility for us at all this
year. We didn' t have anything in place . John (manager of
facility) became tired of having nothing to do and this really
wasn' t the kind of thing that he was looking for as a job, so
he left us after a month. We are starting to get busy. Dick
was gracious enough to accept a teacher on special assignment
position for the rest of this school year.
Number one, we want to increase opportunities for the kids at
the school . We are a large school, we need to have other
things for kids to do. Our athletic programs are really fine,
we have outstanding facilities already. Mr. Shultz stated we
have a lot of kids who don' t make our athletic teams but still
want to be involved in sports . In order to do that, we have
to increase the facilities available, because they are all
tied up with other things . So the two projects, the dome
portion, and the activity center, are really going to give us
a double dose of opportunity available . We are going to have
everything that we can do inside in the activity center, we
are going to have everything you can do on the outside
capacity in the Prairie Dome. We can do it in July as well as
January. We are really going to have a great situation when
we get done here . Construction was a challenge for us this
year.
Mr. Schultz stated he realized we are in very unchartered
waters for school districts . There are six of these type
facilities around. We are the only public school that has one
in Minnesota. When we add the big gym facility, there is one
in Hopkins, there is another one in Coon Rapids, it is
similar, but nobody has a big gym like that in addition to
what we have and certainly nobody has the two facilities . In
addition to this is the performing arts piece. It is hoped to
have the policies, procedures, and processes all worked out
ahead of time and be able to say this is the way we are going.
Mr. Shultz stated having to make snap decisions because of
time lines that other people had, that people needed our
answer and they couldn' t wait for us to develop a policy to
develop a procedure, and even get Board approval on lot of
these . They have been trying to operate and learn from the
mistakes we have made so when we bring proposals for policies
and procedures, they have been experienced and tested. We
have talked to other kinds of facilities that are similar to
learn. We have talked to the people who are using our
facility who have used other ones . We talked to the soccer
group, for example, and asked what was not good at Holy Angels
that we should do better, what would be more beneficial . As
we tried to find where our place in Eden Prairie, probably the
closest similar situation is the Community Center. Bob has
said for many years it was built with the understanding that
it helped generate revenue to pay its operating cost . There
would be a user fee generation situation. We think that is
the same situation here, but even that is not totally
applicable and totally equal because they don' t have the
classroom component along with the fact that it is a public
school and we have classes in there, so obviously we need to
fund that portion. We are not expecting it to generate all
the income that it takes to operate it . The other thing that
we found where as the Community Center is probably dual
purpose, primarily ice things and pool things, weight rooms,
and meeting rooms . We have dance team practices out there,
for example .
Mr. Schultz questioned who are the people that are going to be
using it and where do we go from there and how do we talk with
them. The first group of users we have on a daily basis are
the physical education classes that are out there . We have
been operating for about two weeks, so it isn' t like we have a
long history of this, but it has basically been since
Christmas vacation that we have had it up and running and had
the temperature up where we can stand it . Basically physical
education classes are out there during the daytime . In the
afternoon from 3 p.m. , when we are out of school until about 6
p.m. , we have our own programs . It was stated we have 10
touch football teams, seven soccer teams, 22 basketball teams,
six ultimate frisbee teams, four girls lacrosse teams . Two
boys' lacrosse teams, and seven kids that want to do (boche)
ball . We have a program on a four-week time line, so the
first four-week time period we have football and soccer
happening. As soon as that four weeks is over, then we will
switch to ultimate frisbee and lacrosse, and then we will do
something else . We want to get something up and off the
ground this year, it has been a challenge because the facility
hasn' t been operable . In addition to that, we have a lot of
groups that haven' t had places to practice because of either
construction or just overflow in the gym, so as I mentioned
our dance team has been practicing out there a lot . Evenings
has been rental to various community groups . Some of our
groups will practice on Saturday mornings and then we have a
number of leagues in the afternoons . Community groups and
baseball associations and soccer associations will use the
facility on Sundays .
Rental options were discussed. This is controversial as to
who gets it and who doesn' t get to rent. On what basis do you
decide and all those kind of things? This facility will be
partially supported by its users .
The second thing decided was that the rental rates would be
similar to what they are at comparable facilities so that we
are not going to be double what anybody else is, we are also
not going to be half of what anybody else is .
The third thing was that we would develop a priority order so
when we have to choose, if two groups want to have the same
time, how we are going to choose how to do that regarding the
City' s priorities .
Rates were discussed for different kinds of groups .
It was discussed at the open house programming into the weekly
schedule some open time for individual users who want to come
in and run, because of cold weather. Staff expressed a wish
for walking time before school, from 6 a.m. Mr. Schultz
suggested a pass-type system for people who want to come in
and play soccer with whoever shows up. It was discussed
designating some soccer times or some touch football times .
We will announce all those on a weekly basis on our hot line .
Mr. Schultz discussed what are comparable dome situations,
concerning rates . Holy Angels charges $310 per hour, and
these are for the full facility. They break it down into half
facilities if someone wanted that . Augsburg charges $260 an
hour. Mr. Schultz stated Eden Prairie is at $280 . We have
softer turf because of the upgrades . We try to provide more
for rentals in terms of equipment. This is especially true in
baseball and softball . We provide pitching mounds . We
provide back stops, batting cages .
The projected cost is estimated at about $10, 000 to $12, 000
per month operating costs .
Mr. Shultz stated the first priority is school district .
Second, community education programs . Third City of Eden
Prairie programs . Fourth, community group one, which is 75
percent or more Eden Prairie kids . Fifth, community group
two, less than 75 percent, but which their headquarters are in
Eden Prairie . Sixth, community group three, which are
individuals, companies or vendors who use the facilities to do
fund raising.
City programs priorities : 1) City programs . 2) District
programs . 3) Youth teams, members of nonprofit organizes that
have 90 percent Eden Prairie residents . 4) Nonprofit groups
that use the facilities and raise money for the benefit of the
entire community. 5) Business, neighborhood groups located in
Eden Prairie during the primary/secondary season. 6)
Nonprofit that has 75 percent residents during their primary
season. 7) Nonprofit adult teams . 8) Schools or churches,
primary season. 9) Priority two teams during a secondary.
10) Priority three teams during a secondary season. 11) Eden
Prairie teams on first come first serve basis that has 50
percent membership.
Start with the local people you want to satisfy first and then
the farther removed from that, you get lower priority. A
problem was responding to requests that came before we could
get people in line .
Mr. Schultz suggested 75 percent of Eden Prairie residents
that rent the facilities offer them one weekend with no rental
charge on which they could host some kind of a tournament to
help them generate income .
Ms . Zetah suggested people who use the gym to turn in their
request by a certain date, at which point it will be evenly
divided up so that all people that want it get a fair shake
and they have to justify based on a projected growth if they
are asking for more time . We will only book out for one year
at time .
C. Maximize Citizen Satisfaction
Ms . Zetah talked about the third role for the group, which is
maximizing citizen satisfaction. It was discussed feedback of
the group that used facilities . The City has done a community
survey in October for which the results are now back. There
is a process, whether it is a free use, they would get a form
once a year, with their bill . There is a chance for them to
give us feedback.
Regarding our community pool, in October 1998, we continued
with the question: Are the school facilities well-maintained
inside and out? It was found that the rating from people went
from 87 . 4 percent, back in 1996, to an improvement up to 96. 5
percent, in October 1998 . There is an increase in the terms
of rating the facility.
A question was added in 1998 : Are pool facilities well-used
before and after the normal school day? People answered 91 . 6
percent rated that positively. We now have a bench mark
question to go back to later. Parents rated it higher than
nonparents, possibly because more of them get in there than
don' t .
We have six years worth of data. Five of the key questions we
asked were : 1) How would you rate the fees and are they
reasonable? 2) Is there good supervision provided? 3) Was
there prompt service for what they needed. 4) Was there good
communication about policy rates and procedures? 5) Fees are
we rated lower?
The last comprehensive City survey that was done in 1995 .
There were 209 questions, of those there were about 20 that
related to the Park and Recreation Department . Everything
from streets, to police, was included in that. A comprehensive
member surveyor and nonmember survey at the Community Center.
This report was done by college students . It was discovered
that 93 percent of our members all live within a six mile
radius . The target group and people using and purchasing the
memberships are right within this area.
A nonmember survey was also done . We want to get a similar
number of responses from nonmembers . We put those out in the
lobby for about a month period. Also during the time of this,
the Community Center pool was down for maintenance and the
pool filter system, so we put those over at Oak Point as well,
because our members have availability at not only the
Community Center, but over at Oak Point . We wanted to get a
wide variety of nonusers to find out what would encourage them
to purchase a membership. Our memberships compared to 1997,
we had 317 total number of memberships . In 1998, we sold 406.
That serves about 1300 people .
V. NEW BUSINESS
Mr. Frey commented on the special meeting in February. Oak
Point Pool and the expenses of that facility. It was asked by
the City Council that we bring that type of issue to this
committee to discuss and proposed meeting with the Oak Point
Joint Powers Facility Group on Friday of this week and we will
present that to them and from there we would like to meet with
this group and look for recommendations on that proposal . We
would like to do that as soon as possible from a standpoint if
we are going to make major changes so both the City and the
school can prepare in their budgets to do that .
Ms . Zetah commented on the Joint Powers Agreement with regards
to the Oak Point School, which specifies that is the group
that makes those decisions . If there is a conflict over
things with it, there is already specified in the Joint Powers
Agreement that it is to go to arbitration. This has been
built into this formal agreement . It does not go to another
committee .
Eventually it will be the City Council and the School Board
that will decide whether it goes to arbitration if this
committee cannot work things out among the staff and members .
Ms . Zetah suggested recommendation from the staff group what
they think the Joint Powers Agreement should look like and
also recommendations from this group that represents citizens
and what their recommendation is .
B. Review Actual Fees and Charges from 1998
Mr. Lambert commented on how much the City paid for the use of
school facilities and how much the school paid for City
facilities between those two years and what differences there
were, if there
were any, and any comments .
It was discussed the rentals being stopped, and if we were
seeing the effect of that . The use continued as normal, but
instead of charging a lowered rental cost for every program,
it involved the hours the building was open and if there was
more than one program at that facility. It was charged on a
staffing basis . It was questioned: What was the usage on a
daily basis for each of the facilities, where the City was,
and what number of hours was the City there as the only reason
the building was being opened, versus how many hours was the
actual use . The City was using school facilities 1212 and
three quarters hours, and of that amount 674 and a half hours
were strictly City use . It was at a 56 percent rate that we
were staffing for City use . It was suggested we come up with
a charge for next year. It was proposed 60 percent for next
year.
C. Determining Meeting Schedule for 1999
It was discussed how often to meet . It was decided to meet
every three months . April 28 . June 23 . October 13 .
All meetings at 7 p.m. as tentative dates .
VI . DISCUSSION ITEMS FOR THE APRIL MEETING
1) Performing Arts Center.
2) Prairie Dome update on usage at that point .
3) City requests for the use of the dome, regarding adult
soccer leagues .
4) Early spring softball tournament as a possibility.
VII . OTHER ITEMS
It was discussed operating free use of the dome for a fund
raiser for a tournament . It was suggested a minimum of a
certain number of hours rented, and then a group can get free
time for a fund raiser. A larger user would make more sense .
VIII . ADJOURMENT
Informal meeting. Ending at 9 p.m.