HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 01/10/2013 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY,JANUARY 10, 2013 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
HERITAGE ROOM 1
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Jeff Larsen, Chair; Keith Tschohl, Vice-Chair;
Commissioners: Caryl Hansen, Jeff Nawrocki, John
Pratten and Joe Sutila
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioner Ben McQuillan
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES PRESENT: Peter Humbert
COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: George Esbensen, Eden Prairie Fire Chief
Carol Pelzel, Recorder
VISITORS: Dana Nelson, MAC Representative
I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
Chair Larsen called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Tschohl moved, seconded by Pratten, to approve the agenda as presented. The
motion carried 6-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 2012—TOUR OF
MINNEAPOLIS/ST. PAUL CONTROL TOUR
MOTION: Motion was made by Sutila, seconded by Tschohl, to approve the
November 8, 2012 minutes as presented. The motion carried 6-0.
V. DISCUSSION ITEMS (not discussed in this order)
A. FCAAC ADMINISTRATIVE DETAILS
1. Introduction of George Esbensen as New Staff Liaison
Larsen introduced George Esbensen, Eden Prairie Fire Chief, as the new staff liaison for
the Commission, replacing Scott Kipp. Commission members and student representative
Gadel introduced themselves. Esbensen provided the Commission with a brief
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January 10, 2013
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background of his work experience explaining in 2002 he became Eden Prairie's first
full-time Fire Chief and also serves as their Director of Emergency Management.
Esbensen explained the Fire Department enjoys an excellent operational relationship
with Flying Cloud Airport.
2. Commission Roster Verification
A Commission roster listing names and addresses of members was passed around and
members were asked to update their information and to indicate which information they
did not want public.
3. Distribution Method(s) of FCAAC Information
Larsen asked the Commission how they would like to receive future Commission
information. It has been recommended they move more toward electronic distribution
rather than mailed hard copy.
Tschohl said it is nice to have a paper copy to mark up at the meeting,however,
electronic information would get to them faster and is easier to archive and search for
information at a later date. He indicated he would have no problem with electronic
distribution and would print what he would need since he likes to have a paper copy at
the meeting.
Pratten said he is fine with either method. Hansen said she is okay with receiving the
information electronically but would probably print the information out herself. Sutila
said he would prefer to receive a paper copy in the mail because it is easier for him to
read. Nawrocki said he would prefer to receive it electronically but either method would
be okay with him.
Esbensen said this is something he discussed with Chair Larsen. They are trying to cut
down on paper consumption and there is a lot of information included in the
Commission's agenda material including past minutes, newspaper articles, etc. and by
not reproducing those they can save a lot on paper. He suggested they send out the
attachments to the agenda electronically. He also suggested they mail the agenda to
those members who want a paper copy and to the other members they would send
electronically.
Larsen suggested a paper copy be mailed to Sutila and himself and electronically to the
other Commission members and if members want to change the method in which they
are receiving the agenda they can do so.
4. 2013 FCAAC Meeting Schedule
Larsen indicated the Commission's meeting schedule was included in their agenda for
2013. He asked Commission members to let Esbensen or himself know if they are
unable attend any of those meetings.
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Tschohl asked if any of the meetings on the schedule are planned to be held any time
other than 7 p.m. and at the City Center. In the past they have had tours at various
facilities. Larsen responded normally they tour Flying Cloud Airport at their July
meeting. He is contemplating doing that at an earlier meeting or on a weekend when the
student representatives are available since their term on the Commission is up in the
spring. Larsen asked Commission members to let him know if they have an individual or
business they think this Commission should meet with so it can be added to their
meeting schedule. He said the Operator of the Year award would probably take place at
their March meeting. Rick King, MAC Commissioner, has also volunteered to meet with
them to discuss what is going on with the MAC Commission.
5. Interest in Possible FCM Weekend Tour
As discussed above, Larsen said since the student representatives' terms on the
Commission are up in the spring he would like to have them tour Flying Cloud Airport
prior to their leaving the Commission. Because of their schedule they may have to
schedule a tour on the weekend but would still have a tour of the airport in July for
Commission members. He said he would keep the Commission apprised as to when a
tour would be scheduled. Pratten said if they do a tour with the student representatives
prior to their July meeting he would like to be included in that tour.
B. NOISE COMPLAINTS/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS REPORT FOR
NOVEMBER/DECEMBER
Dana Nelson, MAC Representative, presented the noise complaints received by MAC for
the months of November and December, 2012. She explained an additional map was
provided relating to a complaint Chair Larsen wanted her to look further into. Nelson
reported for the month of November there were a total of 200 noise complaints compared to
3,326 complaints filed in 2011. Of the 200 complaints received, 113 of those complaints
were nighttime complaints. The reason for the large number in 2011 was because one of the
noise complainers had submitted over 3,000 of the complaints. If they remove those
complaints, the 2011 numbers are fairly consistent with the 2012 numbers. The number of
households complaining is one more than in 2011 and the nighttime complaints are down
from last year. Ten letters will be sent out compared to 15 sent in 2011. The number of
operations generating a letter was 27 compared to 35 in 2011. The total operations are down
from 2011 and nighttime operations are also down.
Larsen asked if the person submitting most of the complaints for November 2012, number
30 on the map, is a new individual or someone who has previously filed complaints. Nelson
responded this person has been submitting complaints for a period of time. Typically, this
person is the number one complainer every month. They did reach out to this person via e-
mail in the fall of 2012 saying if they wanted to discuss this further they should contact
MAC. They did not receive a response from that person. Tschohl asked if the address of that
person is in the Hennepin Village Subdivision. Nelson said it is.
Nelson explained an e-mail had been submitted to Kipp regarding excessive run-up noise on
November 21. She looked into the flight tracking system and provided a map to the
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Commission on what was occurring during that period of time, from 5:30 to 8:30 p.m.
Unfortunately, they did not receive this complaint until this week and were unable to listen
to the radio frequency communication because old information is deleted from that system.
They did,however,have a noise meter at the airport during that time. There were six noise
events during that time period. The meter is set to record events 65 decibels or greater for
over one minute. Two of the events recorded were at 4:23 p.m. for 1.34 minutes with a
maximum noise level at 71 decibels and 9:17 p.m. for 1:01 minutes at 68.7 decibels. There
did not appear to be anything unusual during those times. Nelson said the complainant
indicated there was a run-up in excess of 1.5 hours. If there had been, the noise meter would
have picked this up for the entire duration.
Nawrocki said he had talked to the air traffic tower person who worked during that time
frame and they were not aware of any run- up for that length of time.
Nelson reported this message had been sent to Kipp on January 4 for an event that occurred
on November 21 and they were provided this information the beginning of last week.
Nelson said they felt it strange that they did not receive numerous complaints for something
that occurred for 90 minutes. She indicated MAC can contact this individual if the
Commission would like them to and let this person know what they found through this
investigation. Larsen said he thinks it would be a good idea to contact this person and to
copy the Commission on any correspondence with the individual. He also asked that she
include information about this Commission and to list Esbensen or himself as contacts.
Tschohl suggested they also verify the date of the complaint since it was not received until
January when the event occurred in November. He said they should also mention that
maintenance run-ups during those hours are not prohibited by the Final Agreement between
the City and MAC. Tschohl said it is entirely possible that someone was going out for 5-10
minutes and then going back in to do some work on the plane and then back out several
times. He asked where on the airport is the noise meter located. Nelson responded at that
time it was located between the parallel runways west of the north/south runway. Currently,
there is no noise meter at the airport. They are working on getting something out there that
is more permanent and solar powered.
Nelson presented the noise complaints for December, 2012. There were 231 total complaints
with 109 of those complaints being nighttime complaints. Compared to this same time
period in 2011 there were 139 complaints. They will be sending out seven letters for 2012
and in 2011 they sent out ten letters. The number of operators generating letters was 23 and
in 2011 there were 28. Total Flying Cloud operations were down about 5 percent from last
year and nighttime operations were also down.
C. CITY WEBSITE PRESENTATION/REVIEW EVALUATION REPORT
Pratten briefly reviewed the FCAAC website analytics included in the Commission's agenda
material. He indicated the information looks very similar to what was previously presented.
He explained he worked with the City's Communications person after the Commission's
last meeting with the recommendation that they wanted to do some additional comparisons
for one period versus another period. The best option would be to be able to compare the
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different periods on the actual site. Pratten said they want to make sure they are providing a
unified face to the City and to tell staff this is what they want and what on their list can they
actually do. He said the Commission also talked about having the ability to have extra pages
for images of the airport and possibly a video of a plane making an approach to make the
airport friendlier. He said he is not sure all of that will be available but he will continue to
work on that.
Larsen asked how often the Commission would like to review this information. He
explained previously it was done on an annual basis. Pratten said one of his concerns is that
the Commission receives this data and they look at it but what do they actually do with it.
He questions what their goal is. He said they may want to look at the data once a year to see
what the trends are and to see if there is anything they can do to the site to get more hits but
is that what they want. Pratten said as a group they should talk about what they want and
what they are trying to do with the data.
Larsen said he has noticed on the FCAAC's website there is not as much information on it
as there had been in the past. Larsen asked if with the City's new formatted website are they
being limited in terms of space or content. It appears there is a stripped down version of
what they previously had on the site. Esbensen said when the City made the switch to the
new web format they tried to streamline it. Esbensen explained, within reason, there can be
changes to the site but it has to be kept current. He asked what those analytics tell the
Commission. They can measure anything they want but what does it mean and do they even
care as a Commission. They also need to decide what they are going to do with that
information once they receive it.
Larsen explained one of the purposes of the website is to move noise complaint calls from
the telephone to the internet so they could be more efficiently handled by MAC. It also
allows them to see what people are looking at and how that changes over time. Larsen said
the Commission would only need to review this information on a yearly basis rather than a
monthly basis. If over several years the usage rate goes down they may want to discontinue
the site.
Tschohl said it is interesting to see the history over a period of time to determine if there are
more hits to the site relating to controversial items or when certain events occur. Also, the
Commission's mission statement is to monitor the Final Agreement between the City and
MAC and this site provides them with information on how the City and MAC accomplish
that. Perhaps the City should be promoting the benefits of the airport to its residents and the
community. Tschohl said to this extent, there is some justification to at least acknowledge
this Commission's presence as a government entity. They want to be as neutral as they can
but also provide the community with information. He said to minimize the bad affects of the
airport they should promote the good things of the airport as well. Tschohl suggested that
between now and the Commission's next meeting they review the website so they know
what they are talking about and maybe at the July meeting they review the analytics again.
Pratten questioned if there is still historical data available for comparison purposes. Larsen
suggested they do a monthly comparison through the July meeting. Pratten said he would
have a year-to-date comparison available at the March meeting. Larsen said he may have a
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January 10, 2013
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three to four year annual year-to-date comparison and will see if he can have that available
for the March meeting. Tschohl said the website was launched on April 17, 2012. Larsen
said the site does need to be brought up-to-date. Larsen asked Commission members to
review the site prior to their March meeting.
Pratten said he would send a note to City staff and copy the Commission requesting
analytics for year-to-date information for 2012 and 2011 if available. This will allow them
to compare 2011, 2012 and year-to-date data. He questioned going forward if the report
should be from July 1 through June 30 year-on-year or should they do an analysis annually
on the calendar year. Larsen said he would like to see a month-to-year comparison, the same
time period for each year seems to make sense rather than on a meeting basis. Pratten said
he will add the Commission's statement, photo and noise data to the site. Larsen said they
should also include updated agendas and minutes. Esbensen explained the City's website
has a search tool to obtain minutes for the various Commissions and by using the sites
document search function the minutes can be obtained.
Esbensen questioned why this information is important to the Commission and how much
energy are they spending to gather this information. He asked what the driver is on the
analytical information. Tschohl said it helps them to determine what information people are
looking for. For example, if web traffic is up in July they may be looking for information on
the Air Expo at Flying Cloud and the City site help them find that information. He said the
main benefit is the current view of what people are looking for right now.
Larsen said the Commission can look at the prior years' information and this year's
information and if there is a spike they can determine what was happening that month. If at
the end of this year they find things haven't changed they may consider discontinuing the
site. Larsen explained the original intent was not to require a lot of analysis from this
Commission or work from City staff.
D. 2012 FCAAC WORK PLAN PRESENTATION FOR CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP
SESSION FEBRUARY 5, 2013
Larsen reported the Commission will be making a presentation to the City Council on
February 5. This year the Council is asking the Chair and Vice-Chair of each Commission to
make a 5 to 7 minute presentation to the Council as to what the Commission has
accomplished and plans to accomplish in the upcoming year. Larsen asked Commission
members to let Esbensen know if they plan to attend that meeting so they can plan
accordingly.
Larsen explained since the Council presentation will be prior to the Commission's next
regularly scheduled meeting he compiled a report for the Council. He asked Commission
members for their input on this report. Nawrocki said he would prepare a report on
operations at the airport to be included in the report to Council. That report will give the
City Council an idea of what activity is going on at the airport. Nawrocki said the report
prepared by Larsen is thorough and realistic considering the number of times the
Commission has met. He also likes the new format.
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Sutila questioned if the Joint Airport Zoning Board (JAZB) is still in existence and how
often they meet. Larsen explained JAZB has been put in limbo because of some legal cases.
Until the legal cases are resolved, which may occur in late 2013, JAZB will not be
reactivated. He will add this information to the report to Council. Larsen reviewed the
function of JAZB in response to a question from Sutila.
MOTION: Motion was made by Pratten, seconded by Hansen, to present the report
prepared by Larsen to the City Council on February 5, 2013. Motion carried 6-0.
VI. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
Larsen reported the City Council approved the second reading of an Ordinance Amendment to
the City Code relating to creation of Airport Commercial and Airport Office Zoning Districts.
VII. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
A. NTSB FINAL REPORT FOR 10/2/2012 CIRRUS CRASH
Larsen said a report from the National Transportation Safety Board was included in the
Commission's agenda material regarding the Cirrus crash at Flying Cloud on October 2,
2012.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
XI. OTHER BUSINESS
A. VARIOUS FYI ITEMS
Larsen had distributed to the Commission Life in the Prairie newsletter prepared by the City.
The FCAAC was listed under Eden Prairie Commissions. Larsen had also distributed a
memo from Gary Schmidt, Director of Reliever Airports, regarding his presentation and
request for authorization to conduct a public hearing on minimum standards for reliever
airports.
Nawrocki explained the minimum standards pertain to businesses at the reliever airports. To
make sure businesses are competitive they want to ensure they all have the same
requirements for hangar space, ramp space and parking. The last standards were adopted in
1992 and this process will update those standards. They are not proposing changes that will
have a major impact on operators. Nawrocki said MAC staff met with the operators and
explained specifically how the new standards will apply to them.
Larsen also reported MAC approved a permanent utility easement modification for the
Schussler Barn Property. Larsen asked if everyone at the airport is hooked up to the utilities.
Nawrocki explained all of the utilities are available but it is not mandatory that everyone
hook up to them. Businesses are required to hook up to sewer and water and they all have.
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Larsen said it would be nice for the Commission to receive the agenda listing of the MAC
meetings especially as it pertains to Flying Cloud Airport. Nawrocki said he will send the
MAC Commission information to Esbensen.
1. Approved minutes of September 12, 2012 meeting.
2. 2013 meeting schedule.
3. Eden Prairie City Council Workshop Session, February 5, 2013
4. Next Commission meeting—March 14, 2013.
a. Operator of the Year
b. Continue website discussion
c. Contact student representatives to coordinate a spring tour of the airport.
XII. ADJOURNMENT
Motion: Motion was made by Tschohl, seconded by Pratten, to adjourn the meeting. The
meeting was adjourned at 8:55 p.m.