HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 09/13/2012 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 2012 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
Heritage Room 1
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Jeff Larsen, Chair; Keith Tschohl, Vice-Chair;
Commissioners: Caryl Hansen, John Pratten and Joe
Sutila
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Ben McQuillan and Jeff Nawrocki
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Kevin Gadel, Peter Humbert and Emily Richter
COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Scott A. Kipp, Senior Planner
Carol Pelzel, Recorder
VISITORS: Jennifer Lewis, MAC Representative
I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
Chair Larsen called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. He stated Nawrocki had a previous
commitment and he would be absent from this meeting. Larsen welcomed the student
representatives. The student representatives, Commission members and staff introduced
themselves.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Tschohl asked that two items be added to the agenda under VI. B and C Discussion Items. Those
items are Pilot Feedback on Noise Abatement Seminar held August 4 and Applicable
Government Data Practices Act Chapter 13 with regard to Noise Complaint Data and Letters.
MOTION: Pratten moved, seconded by Hansen, to approve the agenda as amended. The motion
carried 5-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY, MARCH 8, 2012
Tschohl asked that under VII. Educational Items A., the fourth sentence of the first
paragraph be changed to read"Nawrocki said that the Flt Plan.com and Jeppesen directories
require FAA approval."
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September 13, 2012
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MOTION: Motion was made by Hansen, seconded by Pratten, to approve the March 8,
2012 minutes as corrected. The motion carried 5-0.
B. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY, MAY 10, 2012
MOTION: Motion was made by Sutila, seconded by Tschohl, to approve the July 12, 2012
minutes as published. The motion carried 3-0-1 with Pratten abstaining because of absence
from that meeting.
V. GUEST SPEAKERS
VI. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. NOISE COMPLAINTS/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS REPORT JULY-AUGUST
Jennifer Lewis, MAC Representative, presented the July and August reports for Flying
Cloud aircraft operations that generate complaints. She reviewed the process for preparing
the reports explaining for the month of July, there were a total of 244 complaints and of
those 10 were related to helicopter operations. There were 148 nighttime complaints
received and four were specifically for run-ups. In July, 2011, there were 165 complaints
with the number of households complaining being the same as in 2012. There were no Stage
2 operations for the month of July.
Larsen asked for the definition of structural disturbance. Lewis explained it is something in
the home that vibrates. Larsen also asked if July was the first time there were fewer
operations than in previous years. Lewis responded there are two different sources of data;
flight tracking data and FAA data. They use the flight tracking data and there is a difference.
Kipp pointed out the report for August shows the number of complainants but does not
identify them on the map. Lewis apologized for the error and said she would collect that
data and send it to the Commission.
Lewis reported the Beechcraft King Air 200 has the most complaints. However, for August,
the Cessna Citation ranked at the highest level. The King Air was not at the top for August
because there were a high number of unknown complaints. Lewis explained MAC
purchases their data from Flight Aware and there were more unknowns than in the past.
Pilots can block their numbers on Flight Aware and they have been having more difficulty
in identifying which aircraft is generating the complaints because of this. They are not sure
this is something they can correct. When the end number is blocked they are unable to trace
those flights. Lewis said they will continue to work on this but it is becoming noticeable in
the data being gathered.
Lewis explained for the month of August there were fewer complaints than in 2011 and
fewer households complaining. The level of operation has been fairly consistent while
nighttime operations and helicopter operations are down. Lewis said they will be providing
to this Commission each month a rolling 12-month report of operations of Stage 2 aircraft.
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In June, 2012, there were two Stage 2 operations. Larsen explained the Final Agreement
between the City and MAC requires a rolling 12-month report of Stage 2 operations since
they are louder and are being phased out. Lewis said the Final Agreement requires for a 12-
month period if there are 75 or more Stage 2 operations they will have to look at
implementing mandatory restrictions.
Sutila asked if any of the July daytime complaints correlated with the accident at Flying
Cloud which occurred on July 12. Lewis said there were three calls that did correlate with
that incident. Larsen explained there has been no official word as to what caused the
accident but once that information is available the Commission will receive a copy of it.
B. PILOT FEEDBACK ON NOISE ABATEMENT SEMINAR HELD AUGUST 4
Tschohl explained one obligation MAC has under the Final Agreement with the City is to
provide training to local pilots on their noise abatement plan. Lewis presented an in-flight
pilot training on August 4 and did a great job in providing an overview of the noise
abatement program to 50 or 60 pilots. She also shared the noise complaints maps with the
pilots that she presents to this Commission. Tschohl said he gave the Commission's point of
view on what they are trying to do in reducing noise and in looking for changes in the way
pilots operate. One pilot who lives near the airport questioned what was done in terms of
real estate transactions to notify people there is an airport nearby open 24-hours a day.
Tschohl explained the City does provide information as part of the initial disclosure but
people lose that information or don't pass it along. He asked if there is anything the City can
do to help educate people after the initial transaction. Tschohl questioned what other cities
that have airports do or what MAC does to educate perspective residents in purchasing
homes about the airport and its operations.
Kipp explained besides the Development Agreement between the City and developer it is
the responsibility of the owner to look into those situations. City staff has talked with people
coming into the City asking about noise from the airport. They do provide them with
examples or suggestions that might make it quieter for them. People focus on the house
itself and don't realize there is noise. Kipp said he is not sure the City has any specific
solutions for that.
Hansen said the real estate agents should have the obligation to know about the noise and
inform prospective buyers of that noise. Kipp said the developer signs an agreement stating
airport noise does exist in the development and they need to disclose that there is an airport
nearby.
Lewis explained other facilities do have some different things that they will do. One airport
puts signs up that shows the distance to the airport and the direction so people driving
through would see that there is an airport nearby. One county initiative required that when
an airport, dump site, etc. is within a certain distance from a home the purchaser is required
to sign documentation stating they are aware of the facility. The seller is required to
complete this information and provide it to the buyer. Lewis also indicated the benefit to
having the internet is that it is a resourceful tool for perspective homeowners. One city had a
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link of things they felt were important to know about their community and included a link to
the airport with a map showing the airport and distances from the airport. Lewis said in the
past she has conducted specific real estate classes explaining information for realtors to
discuss with the buyers as to what to say about the airport and noise.
Tschohl asked with regard to realtor education, if this has been done in Minneapolis or if
Lewis has a sense of how realtors understand the noise areas around the airports in the Twin
Cities. Lewis said she feels it would be worthwhile to have meetings with realtors. MAC has
always made itself available for people looking for homes and she said she usually
recommends Flight Tracker. People are able to see where planes are flying. Larsen asked
Lewis if she thought MAC would entertain the idea of having a real estate class or type of
school. Tschohl suggested they look at providing realtors with an informational brochure
about the airport. Lewis responded on MAC's website there is a page for realtors and home
buyers. She said this would be an ideal place to provide additional resources for home
owners. Lewis said MAC has had discussions about whose responsibility this is. Larsen said
this has come up before and he is not sure what they can do about it. He suggested they
discuss real estate classes at their January meeting.
C. DATA PRACTICES ACT CHAPTER 13
Tschohl explained under Minnesota law any information collected by certain governmental
agencies is defined as public information unless there is something else in the statute that
says otherwise. He asked what MAC is relying on to keep the information private of the
people calling in complaints of violators of abatement procedures. Lewis responded MAC
has an agreement with the FAA for flight tracking data and with that agreement they are not
allowed to use that information for enforcement. Complaint information is also held private
for similar reasons. Data MAC is using to correlate for that complaint is protected data.
D. MAC DEVELOPMENT PARCELS
Larsen explained a meeting with the City's Planning Commission to review MAC's
development parcels had been scheduled for September 10. Unfortunately, they did not have
a quorum so they did not address the topics scheduled for that evening. The City Planner did
present some information to the general public about what they were doing. The City
Attorney talked about MAC and Eden Prairie's relationship in terms of whose ordinance
and plans had control over these parcels. This item was delayed for two weeks.
Kipp reported City staff did prepare a Memorandum of Understanding. Early on MAC
talked about trying to obtain additional money to maintain Flying Cloud and they talked
about who will control zoning, etc. of these parcels. Larsen explained the work will be done
through the Planning Commission because of the zoning involved with these parcels and it
is not an issue for this Commission's consideration. However, this will be on MAC land in
Eden Prairie and it will have an impact on the surrounding area.
Kipp displayed the parcels MAC and the City feel are viable for development. He also
reviewed MAC's proposal for development of the various parcels.
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Larsen presented a brief review of the Joint Airport Zoning Board (JAZB). This
Commission should be aware of their actions even though the Commission has no control
over the Board.
Larsen reported the next Planning Commission meeting is scheduled for September 24 to
discuss development of MAC's parcels. An update of the Planning Commissions' action
will be presented at the January meeting.
E. CITY WEBSITE PRESENTATION/REVIEW EVALUATION REPORT
Pratten reported the program used to extract information from the City's website was
developed by a former Commissioner and required the information to be exported. Pratten
said he has talked with City IT staff and with the City's new website they have the ability to
take the information and create a collection of data from the website. He indicated he has
been trying to meet with City staff to tell them what information they want compiled.
Pratten said he will schedule a meeting with City staff and the student representatives as
soon as possible.
Pratten said once the above project is completed their next step would be to enhance the
Flying Cloud portion of the website including images of planes. Their intent would be to
make it more dramatic and fun to look at.
Larsen said the July airport tour did not occur because of the plane crash at Flying Cloud on
the day their tour was scheduled. He said he would like to get the student representatives out
to the airport. He asked Commissioners and student representative to e-mail available dates
for the tour prior to the November meeting.
F. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC
VII. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
A. AIRPORT EXPO
Tschohl presented a review of the Air Expo explaining there were a number of ground
displays including local pilots and air craft from the commemorative air force. There was a
good mix of vintage and acrobatic aircraft on the ground. The event was very well attended
and the City was represented by the Fire, Police Departments and the Airport Watch
Program.
Tschohl presented an update on the Airport Watch Program explaining the Program was
started in March with the first training sessions occurring in early May. They have
approximately 20 members credentialed and trained into the program.
B. FOLLOW-UP ON YEAR-END REPORT
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VIII. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
A. JULY 12 AIRCRAFT INCIDENT
Larsen distributed to the Commission an article from the Eden Prairie News regarding the
plane crash at Flying Cloud Airport on July 12.
IX. NEW BUSINESS
X. OTHER BUSINESS
A. VARIOUS FYI ITEMS
1. Approved Minutes of May 10, 2012
2. November 8, 2012 —Tour at MSP Airport
Larsen explained the next meeting of the Commission scheduled for November 8 will be a
tour at MSP Airport.
Larsen asked Commission members to think about what they want this Commission to do in
2013. hi January the Commission will compile this information. Every two years they review
security at Flying Cloud and 2013 would be the year for that review.
XII. ADJOURNMENT
Motion: Motion was made by Tschohl, seconded by Sutila, to adjourn the meeting. The meeting
was adjourned at 9:20 p.m.