HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 03/08/2012 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY, MARCH 8, 2012 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
Heritage Room
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Jeff Larsen; Vice-Chair Mark
Michelson; Commissioners: Caryl Hansen,
John Pratten, Keith Tschohl, Jeff Nawrocki
and Kurt Schendel
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVE: John Bowman, Kevin Gadel (absent)
VISITORS: Jennifer Lewis, MAC; Jolynn Christianson,
MSP Airport Police; Matt Christenson, MSP
Airport Police; Peter Vosbeek, Eden Prairie
Police Department; Bill Micklus; Joseph
Sutila.
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner; Jan Curielli,
City Recorder
I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Chair Larsen called the meeting to order at 7:07 PM. He introduced the Commission
members and noted this will be the last meeting for Commission Members Schendel and
Michelson. He thanked them for their work on the Commission.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Nawrocki suggested moving up Item VI.B.
MOTION: Tschohl moved, seconded by Michelson, to approve the agenda as amended.
Motion carried 7-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY,JANUARY 12, 2012
MOTION: Hansen moved, seconded by Tschohl, to approve the January 12,
2012 minutes as published. Motion carried 7-0.
V. GUEST SPEAKERS
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VI. DISCUSSION ITEMS
B. AIRPORT WATCH SECURITY PROGRAM--KEITH TSCHOHL
(taken out of sequence)
Tschohl said at the last Commission meeting he gave a brief overview of what we
have been doing with the Airport Watch Security program at MSP and what we
would like to bring to Flying Cloud. He introduced Sgt. Jolynn Christianson, MSP
Airport Police. She then introduced Sgt. Matt Christenson, MSP Airport Police,
Pete Vosbeek, Eden Prairie Police Department, and Bill Micklus, General
Aviation Security program, who are also involved in the program.
Sgt. Jolynn Christianson said the Airport Watch program at MSP started in 2008
with ten members. The program is a community involvement program where
members of the program come out to be the extra eyes and ears for the airport
security environment. Members must be 18 years of age or older and must pass an
initial background check.
Sgt. Christianson said the members of Airport Watch are issued shirts and vests so
they can be identified as members while at or around the airport fence line. They
are also issued an I.D.
Sgt. Christianson said a number of activities are provided for members of the
Airport Watch program. Those activities include incentives such as
demonstrations at meetings, more accessibility at the airport and participation at
air shows. There is a member recognition program where members who find
security violations are given $20.00 and are entered in a raffle for$500.
Sgt. Christianson said they plan to set up a similar program at Flying Cloud and
are working with Mr. Tschohl and Mr. Micklus,both of whom fly out of that
airport. The two of them will be the coordinators at Flying Cloud. They will ask
the Eden Prairie Police Department to provide incentives for attendance at the
meetings. Members of the Flying Cloud program will get the same perks as the
MSP program and will get extra training for security issues as needed.
Schendel asked how often training at the airport is provided. Sgt. Christianson
said the airport police do an initial training when an individual starts the program.
They also have an annual training for all members and do updates as needed at
monthly meetings. They come to the meetings and let the members know about
security risks at least twice a year or when they have information.
Larsen said it was his understanding one of the perks of the program would be
that a member at Flying Cloud would be able to participate as a full member at
MSP. Sgt. Christianson said Airport Watch program members could be members
of both programs if they want.
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Larsen said he understood there is no charge to participate. Sgt. Christianson said
that is correct. They do ask that items be returned if they quit the program.
Members are also asked to take a shift tending the booths at air shows.
Sgt. Christianson said the Eden Prairie program is the initial program outside of
MSP. They plan to expand the program to the airports in Blaine and St. Paul.
Bill Micklus said there is an Airport Watch program connected with the Aircraft
Owners and Pilots Association. After 9-11 the airport tenants and air craft owners
wanted to push back against any new regulations and initiated an Airport Watch
program. He said he was involved in the General Aviation Security Program
through the TSA. He noticed in his travels around airports to do security training
that many of these programs don't get off the ground because they don't have the
infrastructure this program has. He said this is his first opportunity to be a
volunteer in the program.
Sgt. Christianson said in the initial training the group goes over what should be
considered suspicious activity and decides what would be considered suspicious.
Once the definitions are made, they then determine who would be called for each
type of incident. The group members will be trained on which phone numbers to
use and when to make the calls.
Larsen asked if it is possible to get copies of the presentation they give. Sgt.
Christianson said she will email it to Mr. Kipp.
Schendel asked if the program at Flying Cloud has already started. Sgt.
Christianson said they are almost ready and should be able to start meeting the
end of March.
Schendel noted Flying Cloud has tenants' meetings and that would be a good
place to introduce the program. Tschohl said the next tenant meeting is two weeks
from tonight at Inflight. Sgt. Christianson said Sgt. Vosbeek has discussed how he
plans to introduce the program to the police officers in Eden Prairie, and the
airport people are going to do the same.
Larsen asked that they let the members of the Commission know when they have
meetings like that so the Commission members can attend if they want. Tschohl
said they plan to get the program going and then ask the Commission to attend a
meeting or have a walk-through.
Larsen thanked the guests for coming to the meeting. He said when he and Mr.
Tschohl met with the MSP police they weren't sure how this would work for Eden
Prairie because it is so much different than MSP. This is a unique way to put it
together and it should be a real benefit. There are a lot of people who want to be
out at the airport but don't want to be harassed by security.
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A. DRAFT OF 2011 YEAR END REPORT AND 2012 GOALS--JEFF LARSEN
Larsen asked to have the 2011 accomplishments and 2012 goals ready for
approval at our May meeting so we can give a comprehensive review of our
accomplishments and our goals for 2012 at our workshop meeting with the City
Council on May 15. Copies of the 2010 report and 2011 goals were sent out to
Commission members to use as a template to put the report together.
Larsen said he would like to review some of the topics we have dealt with since
new Commission members joined the Commission last year. He noted we have
done quite a few things this past year such as the Airport Watch program Mr.
Tschohl has worked on and the Chamber of Commerce meeting Ms Hansen
attended. He said we can get the number of operations and other details about the
airport from Mr. Nawrocki. He suggested Mr. Tschohl could write up the Airport
Watch program information and prepare a brief report about noise at the airport.
He suggested Mr. Nawrocki or Mr. Tschohl work on how we contact third parties
about noise issues. He also suggested using the website to access the approved
Commission meeting minutes to get information on some of the highlights. Ms
Hansen could write up the information on the airport meeting and the Chamber of
Commerce meeting. He suggested Mr. Nawrocki include any photos of security
or landscape photos that would look good in the report. Mr. Kipp could get the
information on the Al-Qaeda threat. We want to touch on some of the things we
talked about, the reports we issued and people we met with during the year.
Michelson suggested bringing visuals like an Airport Watch shirt.
Larsen said he will take care of things concerning MAC input and representation.
He said Mr. Pratten is involved in things related to the internet site, so he could
report on how many people are looking at the site and other statistics about
internet usage. Schendel said he will go through the past year and take out some
things to send in for the report. Larsen suggested he provide information about the
airport community in general such as the tenants' meetings. Larsen said we want
to show to the City Council that the Commission has been talking to virtually
everybody at the airport including pilots, the Police Department, and TSA and
MAC representatives.
Larsen asked that Commission members send their information to Mr. Kipp by
April 1 so the two of them can combine the individual items and put them into a
report format. The draft report will be sent out prior to the next meeting so
everybody can review it before the meeting.
Larsen said the City Council started the practice of holding workshops with City
commissions in order to meet the members of the various commissions. Our
Commission is scheduled for the May 15 workshop. The City serves a buffet that
starts around 5:00 PM and then holds the workshop meeting where we will
present our 2011 report and 2012 goals. The Council can ask questions or can ask
us to look at something new. After the workshop meeting they typically have the
Commission Chair attend the regular City Council meeting and officially hand in
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the report to the Council. All of the Commission members including the student
representatives are invited to the workshop. In addition the City hosts an annual
banquet for boards and commissions, usually in May. Commissioners who have
completed their terms and are retiring from the Commission will receive a plaque.
C. WEBSITE EVALUATION REPORT--John Pratten/John Bowman, Kevin
Gadel
Larsen said Mr. Pratten and the two student representatives are working on this
report. He noted former Commission member Greg McKewan said he would be
very happy to help with the report.
D. JOINT AIRPORT ZONING BOARD (JAZB)
Larsen said former Commission Chair Rick King has been Chair of the JAZB.
Mr. King provided a note that until legal issues between two existing Supreme
Court cases has indicated the decision on the legal issues is in a holding pattern
until they are resolved. We will get updates as needed. Michelson asked what the
decision is in regard to. Larsen said he was not sure of the details,but it sounds
like it is at the Federal level.
VII. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
A. CONTINUATION OF PRESENTATION ON NOISE RELATED TOPICS--
KEITH TSCHOHL
Tschohl said Chair Larsen asked Mr. Nawrocki for an update on how we get input
to various airport directories. As of today at least three of the directories now
include the text regarding night time noise abatement at Flying Cloud Airport. He
reviewed the handout that showed the information included in the MnDOT
Airport Directory, Airnay.com, and the AOPA Directory. Nawrocki said that the
Flt Plan.com and Jeppesen directories require FAA approval. That will take a
little time but it sounds like one of the two should be completed by the next
meeting. Larsen asked who uses the Airnav directory. Nawrocki said it is a
resource for pilots and it includes information about the infrastructure of the
airport and information about amenities in the general area. Larsen suggested Mr.
Tschohl include information about the work on the airport directories in the 2011
Annual Report. He thanked him for the presentation.
VIII. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC
A. NOISE COMPLAINTS/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS REPORT (JANUARY-
FEBRUARY)—Jennifer Lewis
Larsen said he, Mr. Kipp, Chad Leqve and Ms Lewis met to discuss an approach
to provide more concise information in its airport noise reports. The goal was to
get the large amount of information organized and to create a more automated
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process for those who have to prepare the reports for the Commission.
Lewis said they prepared the January 2012 report both in the original format and
in the new condensed format and asked for feedback from the Commission to see
if the report should be changed to the new format.
Lewis reviewed the information presented in the January 2012 report in the
original format. There were a total of 235 complaints in the month from a total of
23 complainants, which was a greater number of complaints than in 2011. She
noted there were 5,271 operations at FCM in January 2012, as compared to 2,955
in January 2011, so the percentage of complaints was less for January 2012. There
was a large reduction in complaints about helicopter operations: 25 complaints in
January 2012 and 59 in 2011. There were no complaints about run-ups in January
2012. She said 15 operators received letters in response to 39 operations that
received complaints, and there were no Stage 2 operations.
Lewis next reviewed the condensed report for January 2012. That report includes
the same data as the first report but presents the information in a way that makes it
easier to understand the correlation. The flight tracks are coordinated with the
noise complaints, and the dots are graduated in size to show the number of
complaints. There is a second map that breaks out nighttime noise complaint data.
The table showing noise complaints for the month has been condensed into a
summary of complaint totals by aircraft types and a table with other totals
comparing the current month with the corresponding month a year before. There
is also a table showing the total complaints broken out by the nature of the
complaints such as excessive noise, low flying, and helicopters.
Larsen asked if they send out letters at the end of the month or as they occur.
Lewis said letters are sent out within two weeks of the end of the month.
Larsen asked if the reports would now be done on a monthly basis. Lewis said
they would be. It is easier to do the comparisons with monthly reports.
Larsen said he was excited to see what they were proposing with the new report.
It shows a lot of information in a comprehensive report, and it is nice to be able to
see the total number of complaints about certain aircraft types. It is also good to
see the specific information about which aircraft type are creating noise situations
and to see the information in conjunction with prior year totals. It is a quick and
easy way to see what is going on at the airport. The staff will continue to collect
all the information, but we will get fewer pages and more compiled data. He
thought the report format will really help the Commission by not having to dredge
through the many pages to see all the data.
Michelson thought the format is great and is much more functional. He asked if
some of the aircraft with the most complaints are older models. Lewis said several
of the aircraft at the top of the number of complaints list have operated at night
when their operations are very noticeable. Michelson asked if the aircraft at the
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top of the list are among the most popular models. Tschohl said they are among
the larger aircraft that operate from Flying Cloud.
Schendel asked about the 65 complaints about unknown aircraft types. Lewis said
there is a flight track but no aircraft information was available. Schendel asked if
those originated from Flying Cloud. Lewis said they did. Larsen noted there will
always be aircraft operating out of the airport that we won't be able to identify
with this data. Tschohl noted the nighttime complaints for unknown aircraft types
were only 10% of the total nighttime complaints.
Pratten said we should extract the data out if we see a lot of complaints because
we want to understand the situation and respond to the complainants. We also
need to manage the data and understand the real complaint.
The consensus of the Commission members was that they liked the new format.
Lewis said she would appreciate a formal approval from the Commission. They
have implemented an automated process for the report so it will be a lot more
efficient to put it together.
MOTION: Pratten moved, seconded by Tschohl, to accept the new format of the
Noise Complaint Report. Motion carried 7-0.
Lewis then reviewed the February Noise Complaint Report, noting the data for
February 29 is missing so this is not a final report. She will send out the revised
report when it is ready. She noted there were 142 complaints for the first 28 days
as compared to 226 in February 2011. There were fewer nighttime complaints,
fewer complaints regarding helicopters and run-ups, and fewer letters were sent
out to aircraft operators in February 2012 as compared to February 2011.
Nawrocki said there were about 3500 more flights in 2011 than in 2010. Schendel
said that is encouraging if the increase means the business community is starting
to fly again.
Larsen asked if it would be better to sort the complaint information by aircraft
type alphabetically or by the total number of complaints as it is now. Michelson
said he liked the sort in descending order by number of complaints.
Larsen thanked Ms Lewis for presenting the information and for explaining the
new format.
Lewis said there were no Stage 2 operations in January or February. In December
of 2010 there was a Lear Jet arrival and departure for the first time in about four
years. Hansen asked what a Stage 2 operation is. Lewis said it is a category of
aircraft based on the amount of noise it generates. Stage 1 aircraft are generally
outlawed in the U.S. Stage 2 is the next noisiest and are generally older aircraft
built in the 1960's & 70's. As of 1990, commercial carrier fleets were required to
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phase out their Stage 2 aircraft. That requirement would not apply to general
aviation so some of the noisier aircraft are still out there.
Michelson noted they are starting to build Stage 4 aircraft. Lewis said
manufacturers are currently meeting Stage 4 requirements. She noted Stage 4
applies to jet aircraft only. Schendel noted the Beechcraft King Air 200 is not a jet
aircraft so it wouldn't qualify under that category. He said it is probably the most
popular business aircraft in the world and is operated everywhere in the U.S.
Tschohl said the piston and turbo-prop aircraft follow a different set of noise
regulations than do jet aircraft. Noise regulations are based on the gross weight of
the aircraft. He suggested going over information on noise regulation at a future
meeting.
Joseph Sutila asked if air shows are exempted from noise requirements. Nawrocki
said Flying Cloud does not host air shows,but we do have requests from those
types of aircraft to participate at the Expo. We have received requests from a
couple of military aircraft to come for a display. The City Manager is always
notified if such aircraft are coming to Flying Cloud. It is a great experience for the
community to have that type of aircraft come here. Larsen noted whenever there
has been a show we have talked to the neighbors and people in the community
and haven't run into anybody who was upset with that type of event. If people
have knowledge of an event, they seem to be willing to go along with it being
held.
Tschohl said it would be good to see what kind of information the City provides
to developers and homeowners when they purchase a house near the airport. He
thought we might include that as an action item for the next meeting. Larsen
asked if we have a copy of the notice the developers receive that should be passed
on to potential homeowners. Kipp said there is a project being approved at the
northwest corner of Mitchell and Pioneer Trail for 20 single family houses. The
project has a disclosure that airport flights overfly the property and that MAC is
proposing some non-aeronautical commercial development at the airport. We also
require that construction in the new developments be such that it reduces noise
levels to 45 decibels on the inside of the house. That was done for all the
Hennepin Village homes.
Larsen asked if the MAC has been relieved of any noise mitigation for new homes
that end up having high noise levels because noise testing was done in homes.
Kipp said they tested existing houses on the east side of the airport, except for a
few that were not in a condition to be tested. Larsen thought the MAC was done
with noise mitigation and there was no future work that had to be done. Kipp said
we wanted to determine if existing houses were really having problems. We were
not going to do anything to change the situation,but we wanted to see what kinds
of noise conditions existed inside the houses. All the houses tested passed the
noise testing. He said it works well for everybody if we can have noise
requirements approved for new construction.
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Larsen said it would be great if we could get an example of what the developer
gets in terms of paperwork. Kipp said he could provide the information that is
included in the development agreement. From that point it is the responsibility of
anyone who sells the house to disclose there is an airport near the house. Larsen
asked if the real estate agents are required to pass along that information. Kipp
said the responsibility would go from the initial buyer to the next buyer. Larsen
noted the homeowner may be responsible,but they don't always pass on the
information.
IX. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
X. NEW BUSINESS
XI. OTHER BUSINESS
A. VARIOUS FYI ITEMS
1. Approved Minutes—November 2011
2. City Council Workshop with Commission—May 15, 2012
3. Next Commission Meeting--May 10, 2012
Larsen noted interviews for City commissions were held two weeks ago and the City
Council voted on the appointments on Tuesday night. He said Mr. Sutila has been
appointed and received his appointment email from the City this afternoon. He asked Mr.
Sutila to introduce himself and explain his interest in the Commission. Mr. Sutila said he
lives in the neighborhood of the airport and has been involved in military and civilian
aviation for many years. He is retired now and decided it was time to get involved.
Larsen said he was happy Mr. Sutila has the interest and the time to serve on the
Commission. Larsen noted he himself expects to be reappointed to the Commission.
MOTION: Tschohl moved, seconded by Larsen to thank Kurt Schendel and Mike
Michelson for their service on the Commission. Motion carried 7-0.
III. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Tschohl moved, seconded by Michelson, to adjourn the meeting. Motion
carried 7-0. Chair Larsen adjourned the meeting at 9:10 PM.