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HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 07/14/2011 APPROVED MINUTES FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION THURSDAY,JULY 14, 2011 4:30 P.M. CITY CENTER Heritage Room I and II 8080 Mitchell Road COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Jeff Larsen; Vice-Chair Mark Michelson; Commissioners: Caryl Hansen, John Pratten, Keith Tschohl, Jeff Nawrocki and Kurt Schendel COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: John Pratten STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: John Bowman (absent), Kevin Gadel (absent) VISITORS: Dana Swanson, MAC; Jennifer Lewis, MAC STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner; Jan Curielli, City I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Due to the late arrival from our airport tour, Chair Larsen called the meeting to order at 5:05 PM. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Larsen suggested moving Mr. Tschohl's presentation to the September meeting and having Mr. Kipp distribute it as part of the packet for that meeting. Lewis noted there will be a pilot briefing with Inflight Pilot Training on July 23, and there may be information in Mr. Tschohl's presentation that we may want to know in preparation. Tschohl said he could give just a quick overview tonight. Larsen noted if someone has a project they want to get involved in they should bring it to the Commission. The Commission determines if it is something we would like to follow up on. We want to have a cohesive interaction between the Commission and airport representatives and don't want to interfere or overstep the bounds between the two organizations. Lewis said according to the Final Agreement we have two pilot briefings a year so something could be added to the second briefing if necessary. MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Tschohl, to approve the agenda as published. Motion carried 6-0. III. WELCOME NEW STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES A. John Bowman FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES July 14, 2011 Page 2 B. Kevin Gadel Larsen said we met Kevin Gadel today when he participated in the tour. Neither he nor John Bowman was able to attend the meeting tonight. IV. PUBLIC COMMENT V. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY, MAY 12, 2011 MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Tschohl, to approve the May 12, 2011 minutes as published. Motion carried 6-0. VI. GUEST SPEAKERS VII. DISCUSSION ITEMS A. MAC/EDEN PRAIRIE POLICE MEETING ON AIRPORT SECURITY AND CRIME PREVENTION PROGRAMS—Jeff Larsen, Keith Tschohl Larsen said he and Mr. Tschohl attended the meeting. He distributed a handout they got at the meeting entitled"MSP AIRPORT WATCH." He said we have heard that one of the valuable things for security at Flying Cloud Airport is how anyone related to the airport watches for potential trouble there. Homeland Security and MSP want to encourage knowledgeable people who have an interest in the airport to get involved in a type of watch program. Those individuals would get credentials and could take photos at the airport and bring anything of a troubling nature to the attention of the airport people. The MAC also wants to start this type of program at Flying Cloud. Those interested in the program would undergo a background investigation and would be issued identification. They would get an additional perk of being able to be involved at other airports including MSP. Larsen said Sergeant Al Cooper from the MAC police volunteered to come and talk to the Commission if we want more background information. They also met with Peter Vosbeek, the liaison from the City to Flying Cloud Airport. Tschohl said one of the main differences between Flying Cloud and MSP would be that anyone who is an enthusiast at Flying Cloud is probably already inside the airport taking lessons or other things. The goal of this would be to take some of the burden off the Police Department and to watch out for each other. Larsen said there were some things that made a lot of sense,but some that would not be as appropriate at Flying Cloud. He thought we should make it known that there is such a program,but was not sure we should do anything else about it. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES July 14, 2011 Page 3 Nawrocki said he met with Sergeant Vosbeek, and they will start out with the Civil Air Patrol and do training with that club. They will expand it after they get comfortable with it. Larsen asked Mr. Nawrocki to give the Commission updates on that program. Tschohl thought the role of the Commission and City could be to give people who are interested an opportunity to get familiar with the airport. B. NEW BUSINESS MODEL FOR SOUTHSIDE HANGAR DEVELOPMENT—Mark Michelson,Jeff Nawrocki Michelson said we started talking about this at the last meeting. The MAC is trying to increase the hangar stock at Flying Cloud Airport. One of the biggest correlations with noise is hangar stock, not runway length. He brought this up because we may have given the impression Eden Prairie is in lock step with the MAC in the development of Flying Cloud Airport. He said most Eden Prairie residents are very happy with operations being below 100,000. A few years ago that number was 250,000, and he didn't think the residents would be very happy to go back to that level. He saw the plan to increase hangar stock as a plan to increase noise and that will not make residents happy. He said the MAC is an independent organization and will do what they want to do. As a Commission all we can do is watch what they are doing. Nawrocki said from the MAC perspective they want to have a financial model for the reliever airports, so they are going back to look at the model. There is nothing planned at this point as far as installation of utilities and new hangars,but the intention is to build hangars in the expansion area at some time. Michelson said he would like to go through this more thoroughly to look at some of the assumptions and activities they are proposing, but he didn't know how much we are going to want to go into this. He said there are four or five items he would like to make a point on. Larsen suggested he put together his concerns and send them to Mr. Kipp to include in next month's packet. Schendel asked if the M&O committee accepted this at the July meeting. Nawrocki said he believes it was accepted. It needs to go to the full commission meeting at the end of the month. Schendel noted the conclusions are on Page 20. C. THUNDERBIRD AVIATION REDEVELOPMENT—Jeff Nawrocki Nawrocki said he got an update from the General Manager of Facility Use at Thunderbird Aviation about the redevelopment agreement proposed to the MAC. He said they are working through two hurdles for that now. There should be an agreement on that soon, and they hope for a fall start, depending on the agreement. Kipp said the City brought this to the Planning Commission on July 11, and it will go to the Council on August 16. It is a site plan review for FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES July 14, 2011 Page 4 development that improves the appearance of the hangars and provides parking for 32 vehicles. D. POLICY CHANGE ON TRUNK FEE ASSESSMENTS FOR SEWER AND WATER SYSTEMS AT FCM—JEFF NAWROCKI Larsen noted the Commission heard about this on the tour today. Nawrocki said some cities are not requiring connection fees,but what has been proposed is that the MAC would pay the assessment and have it assessed back to the tenants over a period of time.. Larsen said this information is from May 31 and asked if this process has gone on with committee action. Nawrocki said the discussion is currently in the Finance Department. Schendel said the issue is for existing businesses that have been out there for a time. Now that sewer and water is available, their septic systems and wells aren't good enough but the businesses aren't land owners. From the standpoint of the commercial operators there has to be a way to finance this over time. VIII. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS A. 2010 QUALITY OF LIFE SURVEY—Jeff Larsen Larsen said Ms Hansen had asked questions about the Quality of Life Survey so Mr. Kipp and he got more information that might help the Commission understand things a little better. Decision Resources did the survey and questioned 400 residents. There were an equal number of people surveyed from each of the 19 precincts in Eden Prairie, which meant that only 20 or so residents from each precinct were surveyed. He said Question 72 of the survey asked how serious a problem airport noise is in Eden Prairie. He distributed a handout that reviewed the analysis of the answers to that question and compared them to the responses to the same question in the 2006 survey. Michelson said he had serious question about the methodology of the survey and he would not pay much attention to a survey of only 400 residents. Hansen thought the people on the north side of the City don't care as much about the airport. She thought it was a waste of money to include questions about such a small subject that really doesn't affect that many people. Schendel said you could probably argue that about any question that relates to a particular location in the City. He thought the intent was to get an overview from the residents as to how they view the services or products of the City. Larsen said Decision Resources provided them with some information about the people who were concerned with airport noise. One of the precincts that answered "somewhat serious" to the question was Precinct 8, which is in the northeast quadrant of the City. He thought the information showing the change from year to FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES July 14, 2011 Page 5 year was the most interesting because it shows that the number of people who think airport noise is a problem has dropped over the three times the survey has been done. Hansen said she has talked to a lot of people who say they just don't bother to complain any more. Tschohl said he lives in Precinct 8. Complaints from residents on the east side of the City often correlate to MSP traffic, not Flying Cloud traffic. Larsen said they run into the same thing in Precinct 17. Larsen said he will try to get a little more clarification. B. UPDATE ON IMPROVING PILOT EDUCATION—Keith Tschohl Tschohl gave a summary of his PowerPoint presentation, "Improving Communication on FCM Noise Abatement Procedures." He reviewed the operations that trigger noise complaints and the reasons why we have noise conflicts. He gave some suggestions on how to improve the sources of information available to pilots, and reviewed some issues involving the National Wildlife Refuge area. Tschohl said he met with the Air Traffic Manager at FCM to discuss concerns. He said a lot of things can't be done because of traffic and safety reasons. He did take away a few recommendations he can work on with Mr. Nawrocki, Ms Lewis and Ms Swanson. Nawrocki asked if this presentation and the information in it are Mr Tschohl's opinion or the opinion of the Commission. Tschohl said this was his opinion. It is a rough draft, and the Commission has not seen this presentation before tonight. Larsen said we have discussed quite a few of the items and a lot of the information presented is similar. He said we have to be very careful that we are working with people that have the responsibility and authority to make changes and must be very careful in how we present this to people. When talking to sources at the FAA and the MAC, we need to do so under the auspices of the Commission as a whole. He applauded Mr. Tschohl's efforts. He thought we should take his information as a Commission and make sure everyone has more time to take a look at it. He suggested getting some input from the FAA and the MAC at our next meeting for those items that have idiosyncrasies or are confusing. Larsen said we have the ability to revamp it and have it ready for September. We should also have Mr. Kipp distribute it to the Commission members before the meeting. Tschohl asked how much additional explanation he should add since there is a fair amount of technical documentation. Larrsen thought the addition of a list of terms and definitions used in the presentation would be helpful. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES July 14, 2011 Page 6 Michelson noted Mr. Tschohl identified a number of publications in his presentation, and he would like him to include suggestions about how we could get our name into those publications. Larsen thought there is a lot of transient traffic coming in, and there may be ways we can work with other groups to get that information out there. This gives a good starting point on things to discuss. Kipp noted Commission members should bring any questions or comments to the meeting rather than discussing them via email. C. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE-MAC PRESENTATION "DIRECTIONS IN AVIATION (sent electronically)—Caryl Hansen Larsen said he and Ms Hansen attended the Chamber of Commerce-MAC presentation. He noted a copy of the presentation given by Jeff Hamel at the meeting was sent out to the Commission members by email. Hansen said she took excerpts as they related to Flying Cloud Airport. It is the second busiest airport in the state with annual economic activity of$80,000,000. They also addressed the issue of safety. Larsen noted there is also a lot of information included about MSP, and it was interesting to see what the plans are for the future of MSP. IX. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC A. NOISE COMPLAINTS/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS REPORT (DECEMBER- FEBRUARY)—Dana Swanson Swanson said this report includes information for May, June and part of July. There were 670 complaints and 46 complainants during that time period. She reviewed the summary of complaints and noted they investigate the run-up complaints even if there was no run-up at the time. They did not find any maintenance run-ups. Larsen said it is great that they follow up on the run-up complaints. He thought a lot of people who complain don't understand what a run-up is. Swanson reviewed the noise complaint maps after handing out copies. Larsen asked if they have any idea why there is a much wider distribution of noise complaints this month. Swanson thought perhaps people are sleeping with the windows open or it may be increased MSP operations for the summer. Tschohl asked if there were any complaints correlated to mosquito operations this spring. Swanson said there was not a lot of that going on in this area during that time. It occurred more in the north metro area. Kipp asked if jet traffic complaints are becoming more prevalent. Swanson said FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES July 14, 2011 Page 7 that is hard to say because that isn't part of the internet form, which is the way the majority of complaints are received. Michelson noted the list of aircraft seems a lot more complete than in the past. Swanson reviewed the violation letters sent out during that time period. Larsen said he asked one of the operators today if he had received the new noise letter and if the format made any difference. His reply was that it has no effect. Swanson said they find most of the pilots who respond to the letters are not based at Flying Cloud. Larsen said we really want to reach the itinerant pilots and get information to them to perhaps change their behavior. X. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS B. LATEST NTSB REPORT UPDATES ON ACCIDENTS AT FLYING CLOUD Larsen said this report was sent out as part of the packet. Kipp noted the report provides the probable cause of the accident. XI. NEW BUSINESS XII. OTHER BUSINESS A. VARIOUS FYI ITEMS 1. Approved Minutes—March 10, 2010 2. Santa Monica Daily Press—on Santa Monica jet ban ruling 3. Updated Commission Roster/Student Representatives XIII. ADJOURNMENT Larsen said the next meeting was scheduled to be an offsite meeting. He suggested we discuss Mr. Tschohl's information and also invite the resident back for the September meeting, so we might want to delay our offsite meeting to November or later. The rest of the Commission members concurred. MOTION: Tschohl moved, seconded by Michelson, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 6-0. Chair Larsen adjourned the meeting at 6:55 PM.