HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 05/12/2011 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY, MAY 12, 2011 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
Council Chambers
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Jeff Larsen; Vice-Chair Mark
Michelson; Commissioners: Caryl Hansen,
John Pratten, Keith Tschohl, Jeff Nawrocki
and Kurt Schendel
VISITORS: Dan Boivin, MAC Chair; Rick King, MAC
Sector Representative; Dana Swanson and
Chad Leqve—MAC Representatives
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner; Carol Pelzel,
City Recorder
I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Chair Larsen called the meeting to order at 7:08 p.m.
II. SWEARING IN OF NEW COMMISSION MEMBERS
New Commission members Hansen, Pratten and Tschohl were sworn in by Kipp. Larsen
asked the new Commission members to introduce themselves and explain why they were
interested in serving on this Commission.
Pratten explained he has a degree in airport management and has a strong interest in
aviation and is excited to be involved in something that interests him. Tschohl said he is a
private pilot flying out of Flying Cloud for a little over a year. His main interest in joining
the Commission is to help work through some of the preconceptions regarding the airport
and to bring a more objective point of view of how things work at the airport. Hansen
explained she had previously worked at Flying Cloud and has taken flying lessons there.
She also worked for Northwest Airlines for 12 years and has been a travel agent for 40
years. Hansen said she has been a complainer about airport noise and feels it is time for her
to do something for the City.
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Tschohl, to approve the agenda as published.
The motion carried, 7-0.
IV. PUBLIC COMMENT
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
May 12, 2011
Page 2
V. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY, MARCH 10, 2011
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Schendel, to approve the minutes as
published.
With regard to Item XI. A. 2. Decision Resources City Survey Questions on
Airport Noise, Hansen questioned why they would interview people who live six
miles from the airport on airport noise. Schendel responded the survey
encompassed a lot of different subjects and not just airport noise. Larsen
explained there were a couple questions regarding airport noise in the survey and
this Commission reviewed those questions to see if there is a change in the
public's feelings toward airport noise. The Commission does not have any input
as to what questions are asked. Hansen said the way it appears in the minutes she
assumed it was an airport noise survey. Larsen said if Hansen has additional
concerns about how this survey was put together they could have a discussion
about the survey at a future meeting. Kipp said he would pull additional
information from the Decisions Resources survey and send it to the Commission
and if they have additional questions the Commission can review the survey
further at a future meeting.
MOTION: Michelson moved to amend his motion to change Item XLA.2. of the
March 10, 2011 minutes to read "Decision Resources City-Wide Survey
Concerning Questions on Airport Noise". Schendel seconded the amended motion
and the motion carried 4-0-3 with Hansen, Pratten and Tschohl abstaining because
of absence from that meeting.
MOTION: Motion was made by Michelson, seconded by Schendel, to approve
the March 10, 2011 minutes as revised. The motion carried 4-0-3 with Hansen,
Pratten and Tschohl abstaining because of absence from that meeting.
VI. GUEST SPEAKERS
A. DAN BOIVIN, MAC CHAIR
Boivin introduced himself explaining he started his aviation career on the Charter
Commission of the City of Minneapolis and through that process the Mayor of
Minneapolis appointed him to the Airport Commission. He was appointed to the
MAC in 2002 as Minneapolis' representative and at that time he knew nothing
about airport business. This year the Governor appointed him as chair of the
Commission. Boivin said he does not have an aviation background and everything
he knows about aviation he learned by serving on the Commission. He has some
of the best staff in the world and feels fortunate to have the system they do.
Boivin said they will do what they need to to keep Flying Cloud Airport healthy.
It is one of the gems in the airport system and it has a thriving business
community and is a model they are trying to bring to other airports in the reliever
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
May 12, 2011
Page 3
system. He said there will be issues from time-to-time and he asked Commission
members to contact him at any time if they have any concerns and/or issues they
would like to discuss with him. One of his goals is to make sure Flying Cloud
continues to thrive. He knows airport noise is an issue at Flying Cloud and they
need to be mindful and willing to work with the community. It is important for
everyone to remember the airport is an economic generator for the community.
Michelson asked if other airports in the reliever airport system such as Anoka or
Lakeville are going to be expanding or if there is anything new planned for those
two airports. Michelson said he believes if something changes at Anoka or
Lakeville it will probably also happen here. Boivin said Lakeville does have a
long-term plan to expand but he does not see anything happening there or in the
reliever system in the near future. They have been asked to take over the St.
Cloud and South St. Paul airports. There has been a little growth at Anoka but he
is not sure how much more will happen there. St. Paul may have more corporate
jet aviation expansion.
Larsen asked if the new Governor has much impetus on the way MAC operates.
Boivin responded he previously did not know the Governor but was surprised on
how well versed he is on aviation issues. He does talk to the Governor on a
regular basis about airport issues and he knows that aviation is important state-
wide.
Schendel asked the status of the south side building area at Flying Cloud. Rick
King, MAC Sector Representative, responded that he expressed an interest in
working on the new model for this area. They have been working on some
changes on the general financing of the reliever airports and part of that will be
how they end up marketing this. These changes will help the entire system. King
said he thinks they are only a few steps away from getting one or two people to
move and build there. They will see a lot of the older stock going down or
improved. This will improve the appearance of the airport which was one of the
goals of this Commission. In response to a question from Larsen, King said he
believes by Fall they should have a model for review by the reliever airports that
will be agreed to as a good idea.
B. RICK KING, MAC SECTOR REPRESENTATIVE
Rick King said he is the new MAC Sector Representative and his district includes
Eden Prairie. He is pleased to live in Eden Prairie and represent the District that
has the airport. As Chair Boivin indicated, the Commissioners are readily
accessible and he would be happy to participate in whatever way this Commission
would like him to. He will be very involved but will not do anything unless
invited to participate.
VII. DISCUSSION ITEMS
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
May 12, 2011
Page 4
A. AIRCRAFT NOISE PERSPECTIVE FROM RESIDENT
Larsen said he had anticipated a resident to be present this evening to provide her
perspective on aircraft noise. Unfortunately, it appears she went to the wrong
room. Larsen explained the room location was changed just prior to the meeting
and the resident was not notified. He asked for her contact information so he
could call and apologize for the mix up. It was not intentional and he wanted to
make sure she understands it was a mistake. He will ask if she is interested in
coming to a future meeting. If she does not want to participate they will find
someone else to appear before the Commission.
VIII. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
A. STATE OF THE AIRPORT
Larsen said he asked Nawrocki to give the Commission a synopsis of what is
done at the airport and continues to be ongoing and also if they anticipate
anything happening in the future at the airport.
Nawrocki reported 18 months ago they completed the airport expansion including
extending the south east/west parallel runway to 5,000 feet. They also relocated
the VOR and developed east and west parameter roads to increase runway safety.
Nawrocki said they have updated the security system gates to assist in keeping
unauthorized vehicles off of the airfield. Today they are doing day-to-day
operations and there has been a 20 percent decrease from last year's operations.
They have increased and maintained business and charter operations. Nawrocki
said they are proposing a north parameter road which would allow a 360 degree
route around the airport. They are also looking at a possible 100 foot extension of
runway 18/36. He said they have also discussed additional landscaping around the
airport and will continue to work on that. They do have a list of the top ten
hangars that are rusted,have dilapidated doors, etc. and they will contact the
owners and work with them on a timeline to improve the hangars. It has been
determined that the FAA tower is in the wrong location and they will be starting
the process of relocating the tower within the next 12 months. It is usually a five
to seven year process before a tower is relocated. The existing location is
acceptable to FAA policies and they anticipate moving the tower closer to the
runways giving them a much better viewpoint.
Larsen said the plan is for the Commission to tour the airport at their next meeting
and this would include touring the tower.
B. AIRPORT NOISE AND CAPACITY ACT (ANCA)
Chad Leqve of MAC presented the Commission with an overview regarding the
Metropolitan Airports Commission (MAC), public use airports and Federal policy
considerations, noise related efforts at Flying Cloud and the multilateration
system. He stressed the importance of this group to the effectiveness of the
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
May 12, 2011
Page 5
program they have at the airport to deal with noise issues. MAC strives to make
improvements where they can and the only way that can occur is with the
collaboration between this Commission and MAC. Leqve pledged his and his
staff's support to this group and they are here to help.
Leqve explained MAC is made up of 15 Commissioners and this group sets
policies for the development and operation of MAC airports. Neither State nor
local taxes are used to operate MAC. Revenue is generated for airport operations
and Federal funding is received.
Leqve briefly reviewed the 1990 Airport Noise and Capacity Act. He explained
the airport is very heavily dependent upon Federal funds and those funds come
with strings attached. Those provisions are heavily influenced by legislation and
regulations. The most influential legislation passed was the 1990 Airport Noise
and Capacity Act which relates to airport noise. It places certain requirements on
carriers to modernize their fleets and focuses on the larger demographics of
aircraft. Leqve further explained Congress said if they impose this financial
burden on private companies they need to have some use guarantees in existence.
This resulted in the FAR Part 161 study and evaluation process airports have to go
through when they want to impose restrictions on the use of an airport. Flying
Cloud's consideration of restricting nighttime/early morning operations is
extremely difficult to implement at a public use facility. Nighttime noise is an
issue at all airports. Leqve said the FAA has stated they cannot close an airport or
restrict access or use of the facility. If they did this, the FAA would not have to
give federal funds to the airport. They did have Ordinance#51 in place which
restricted operating weight of aircraft to 20,000 pounds at Flying Cloud. The FAA
felt this was arbitrary and said they had to address and deal with this issue. Leqve
further explained in 2001 and 2002 MAC and the City negotiated an agreement
that amended Ordinance#51 and outlined several actions on behalf of MAC that
are intended to help reduce noise at Flying Cloud. In return, the City agreed not to
oppose the runway extension.
Leqve reported the mechanism they rely most on for reporting of operations is the
Internet. They have a separate website maintained out of MAC's noise office and
there are a number of interactive applications available on Flying Cloud's
website. He asked that Commission members go on the website and use some of
the applications and let them know if they find them helpful or if changes should
be made. He encouraged the Commissioners to provide them with ideas,
suggestions or direction.
Leqve explained MAC's flight tracker application was developed by MAC staff
and it is the only one of its kind. This application can be used at any of their
system airports and is available for anyone to access. Leqve said this application
resulted because of the collaboration between MAC and this Commission and the
Commission's support helped move it along.
Pratten said since this flight tracker application is the only one of its kind, could it
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
May 12, 2011
Page 6
be a money generator for MAC. Leqve answered they have licensed this software
as an open source and the open source model is a return on investment for MAC.
More airports will use this and if the application is enhanced it will go back to the
other airports. This would be a financial benefit to MAC and also gives something
to the industry that is really needed.
Pratten said it was mentioned 1,500 letters were sent to people who were involved
in some type of noise issue. He asked what types of responses are received when
the violator gets this letter. Leqve responded this is a challenging issue. When
they started this campaign of sending letters out the violators were very
responsive and provided them with the reason for the flight in question. MAC
does not have the authority to tell them they can't fly but continue to send letters
to users in violation of the voluntary nighttime restriction. Leqve said he thinks
what happened over the years was some operators were responsive to the letters
they were receiving but after continuing to receive the letters they became
frustrated and even insulted. This issue will be a challenge for this group as they
move forward. Since MAC cannot issue tickets or fine people there needs to be a
very diligent approach to monitoring this situation. This restriction depends on the
good will of the operators and they don't want to damage or destroy that good
will.
Larsen further explained last year this Commission looked at how often letters
should be sent out. Some people were getting 15 to 20 letters per time period. The
Commission felt this was counterintuitive and suggested taking a specific time
period and keeping track of the information and putting it all in one letter for that
time period. This allows the owner/operator an opportunity to review the flights to
determine why they flew during nighttime. Larsen said the extension of the
runway allows pilots to not have to stop for fuel so they can leave the airport later
in the day. There may also be some new operators who may not be aware of the
landing/takeoff procedures. A copy of a sample letter was distributed to the
Commission members for their review.
Tschohl said in looking at the track maps it appears the aircraft are turning south
as soon as practical after takeoff. He asked if they had ever considered having one
or two different tracks depending on the complaints. He also asked if there is any
difference on how they approach the notification to an operator if they followed
the published procedures but violated the voluntary restrictions. Michelson
responded there is no difference; it is a black and white issue. If there is a
complaint they get a letter and if there is no complaint there is no letter sent.
Leqve said the letter is not that specific.
C. MULTILATERATION PROJECT
Leqve briefly reviewed the previous flight tracking and noise monitoring system
architecture. He explained this system resulted in a five-day lag in receiving data
and the FAA also filtered certain operations resulting in missed information. As a
result of this, MAC started a project to install a system to collect flight tracking
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
May 12, 2011
Page 7
information. Leqve reviewed the upgrade of the flight tracking system to the
multilateration flight tracking system. The new system provides data integration,
greater coverage, reliability and unrestricted data. There are eight sensors that are
part of the system located throughout the metropolitan area. Leqve thanked this
Commission for their support of this project and help in having it come to
fruition.
IX. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC
A. NOISE COMPLAINTS/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS REPORT (MARCH-
APRIL)
Swanson distributed the noise complaints for March—April, 2011 and reviewed
the various complaints. There were 5,188 total operations with 129 operations
generating one or more complaints. There were 171 nighttime operations with 74
operations that generated one or more complaints.
Schendel questioned why there was no data available for the end of March or the
end of April. Swanson responded there were some issues with the flight track data
coming in both in March and April. They felt they needed to withhold the rest of
the data and to reprocess it. Letters were processed for the March 1-22 time
period and when last month's data came available they sent another batch of
letters to cover the remaining time period.
X. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
XI. NEW BUSINESS
Schendel reported the group Wings of the North held a pancake breakfast at Flying Cloud
Airport and there was a good turnout. He also reported on Saturday mornings Ben
McQuillan of Inflight Pilot Training offers various training sessions at Flying Cloud and
on that Saturday he gave a presentation about small airplane operations instead of
commercial airplanes. There were approximately 120 people out at the airport. The
seminars are conducted on a week-by-week basis and typically they have from 80 to 120
people attending these sessions.
Tschohl said he regularly attends these sessions and last year they offered a seminar on
noise abatement. Tschohl said he has spoken to McQuillan about a refresher course on
noise abatement to remind people about the voluntary noise restrictions.
XII. OTHER BUSINESS
A. 2011 MEETING TOPICS — SEEKING ADDITIONS/IDEAS
Larsen asked Commission members to think about items they would like to see
addressed or of speakers they would like to have present to the Commission. He
asked members to provide Kipp with any items they would like added to the 2011
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
May 12, 2011
Page 8
meeting topics. Larsen said the July meeting will be held at the airport.
Larsen also explained the open period for appointments of student members to
this Commission is until May 27 and if any Commission members have a
recommendation for a student member they contact that person and ask them to
complete an application.
Larsen asked that an item regarding Flying Cloud ball fields be added to a
Commission's future agenda.
Nawrocki said if any new Commission members are interested in a tour of Flying
Cloud Airport before their July meeting they should contact him. Also,he
reported there is a nationwide program regarding airport security for international
airports and he is partaking in that program. The Airport Police Department will
be coming out in June to work with the Eden Prairie Police Department in making
a presentation to the business owners. The Flying Cloud Airport and Police
Department was chosen for this training. The training will take place on June 7 at
2 p.m. at the Technical School at the airport.
Nawrocki reported July 16 and 17 Wings of the North will be hosting the Air
Expo event. They have talked about bringing in a C 130 military aircraft. This will
be a static operation, one operation in and one operation out.
Larsen asked for volunteers in working on the Commission's website and asked
them to contact Kipp if they are interested.
Michelson pointed out the Commission members contact information is included
in the agenda material and new members of the Commission should not hesitate
to contact any one of them if they have questions.
B. VARIOUS FYI ITEMS
1. Approved FCAAC Minutes of January 13, 2011
2. May 11 Boards and Commissions Banquet & FCAAC PowerPoint
3. Article—Students on Commissions program applications ends May 27
4. Article—Changing winds at Flying Cloud Airport
5. Flying Cloud Ball Fields construction information
6. Commission Roster for 2011
7. Life in the Prairie on Rick King
8. Article—King appointed to MAC
9. Next Commission Meeting—July 14, 2011
XIII. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Motion was made by Michelson, seconded by Hansen, to adjourn the
meeting. Motion carried, 7-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:17 p.m.