HomeMy WebLinkAboutConservation Commission - 06/28/2010 - Joint Meeting APPROVED MINUTES
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/PLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORKSHOP
MONDAY,JUNE 28, 2010 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
Heritage Rooms 1 & 2
8080 Mitchell Road
CONSERVATION COMMISSION
MEMBERS PRESENT: Laura Jester(Chair), Greg Olson (Vice Chair),
Sue Brown, Ray Daniels, Geneva MacMillan
PLANNING COMMISSION
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jacob Lee, Jerry Pitzrick, Jon Stoltz, Travis Wuttke
STAFF MEMBERS: Regina Herron, Planning Division
Stu Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
Michael Franzen, City Planner
Jan Curielli, Recording Secretary
I. INTRODUCTIONS
II. MISSION, CHARTER AND RESPONSIBILITIES
Jester reviewed the charter and responsibilities of the Conservation Commission. She said
the members of the Conservation Commission are interested in learning what the
Planning Commission looks at, particularly how they look at natural resources when
reviewing a development plan.
Stoltz said the Planning Commission would like to find ways they can help the
Conservation Commission. The Planning Commission goes through a project and tries to
think about the best ways in which to build up the City of Eden Prairie and how the
citizens and neighbors in Eden Prairie might view the project. He said members of the
Conservation Commission are free to email members of the Planning Commission about
items that are coming up for review.
Pitzrick asked if the Conservation Commission reviews projects that come through the
system. Olson replied that the Conservation Commission gets the project profile with a
list of things that will be considered at the Planning Commission,but there is not a lot of
background or perspective that goes along with the project profile. He said it would be
useful to get some kind of narrative on a certain project that might be relevant to what the
Planning Commission is looking at. He noted for the past several months the
Conservation Commission has been focused on how our commission can advocate for
storm water abatement methods such as rain gardens or pervious surfaces.
Jester said the Conservation Commission had a workshop with the City Council last year
and the Council does not want any more stops along the way for development plans. She
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June 28, 2010
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thought it would be good to keep a dialogue between the Conservation Commission and
the Planning Commission about upcoming development so the Conservation Commission
could provide a perspective on upcoming projects.
Stoltz asked staff how we would get more in front of projects because the Planning
Commission doesn't get into a lot of detail until they receive the packet for the Monday
night meeting. Franzen said staff doesn't really know what is in the project plan until
three weeks before the meeting date. They go through a process to make sure they have
all the relevant information behind the project and then use the tools available to go
through the plan. It is a matter of negotiation if there are things they would like to see
happen that are not in City Code or the Guide Plan.
Jester said it is difficult to try to fit the Conservation Commission into taking a look at the
project plans, so education and cooperation among the commissions is important. Jester
said there are many great natural features in the City, and storm water is one of the
biggest issues today.
III. RAINWATER GARDEN DISCUSSION
A. What is a Rainwater Garden
Jester said there is a lot of information available about rainwater gardens now, and
they have been proven to work in cold climates and in residential areas.
B. Map and Photos of Developments
Herron showed a slide of the basic profile of a rainwater garden and photos of
various rain gardens in Eden Prairie and other nearby communities.
C. Practices in Surrounding Cities
Jester said the Conservation Commission received a presentation from the Water
Resources Manager in Plymouth where they have been able to incorporate 50 rain
gardens in residential and commercial areas. She said it is especially beneficial if
the rain gardens can be incorporated along the streets by means of curb cuts. A lot
of rain water can be caught in a rain garden if there is some slope into it. Herron
noted the Plymouth area streets were ready for reconstruction so they were able to
increase the number of rain gardens in the street right-of-way. They worked with
homeowners and had some grant money to pay for the majority of the costs.
Stoltz asked if there are any details regarding the abatement per square foot. Jester
said there is a lot of science behind the calculations, and it depends on the size of
the rain garden. She said Burnsville did rain gardens in one area and none in
another and then studied the amounts of storm water abatement in each. She said
there was a 90% reduction in the area with the rain gardens.
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Jester said maintenance is a huge issue, both annual maintenance and occasional
larger maintenance tasks. She said it is similar to a storm water pond.
Pitzrick noted projects to upgrade streets do not come through the Planning
Commission. Fox said upgrading streets would be a Public Works project and
would go directly to the City Council. He noted Plymouth received a grant for
their rain gardens,but their City Council took the lead on them. He said many of
Eden Prairie's utilities are located in the boulevards which would make it difficult
to locate rain gardens there.
Pitzrick said the MPCA requires maintenance on storm water ponds and asked if
there are similar requirements for rain gardens. Jester said there are no
requirements and noted the City is still working on surveying the ponds. Fox said
if the storm water ponds are dredged, the material removed is considered
hazardous waste and the cost for disposal of that material is extremely high. He
said fertilizer and grass clippings accumulate in storm water ponds, and the same
thing would happen with rain gardens.
Jester said rainwater gardens are new but, in general, storm water infiltration and
low impact development are becoming increasingly important as a better way of
development.
IV. POROUS PAVER DISCUSSION
A. Current Ordinance
Jester said in March of 2009 the Planning Commission was considering a code
change to allow porous pavers, and she asked about the status of that change.
Herron said City code currently allows bituminous blacktop or Portland cement,
but we have received a lot of calls from residents about pavers. We decided to
look at the definition because the code wasn't specific regarding porous pavers as
a permitted use. The direction to staff from the Planning Commission was to take
a closer look and evaluate the pavers. The Conservation Commission was brought
in to look at the use of pavers as part of staff's research efforts.
B. Research on Surrounding Cities
Olson said we know that surrounding communities do permit pervious surfaces
under certain circumstances, primarily in residential areas. Herron said some
communities leave it to the discretion of the City Engineer or allow it for areas of
commercial property except where there would be heavy traffic.
Olson said one of the side benefits he learned of was to help abate the amount of
silt in fresh water. He said it also potentially helps reduce the level of ice buildup
as the porous surfaces help the ice melt and the water goes straight down. He said
there were concerns about the surface holding up with heavy vehicle usage. Jester
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said there was a study done in Robbinsdale where they used porous pavers to
reduce icing in the Shingle Creek area.
C. Maintenance Issues
Stoltz said he had concerns about the warranty surrounding porous pavers and
their durability. Pitzrick said it costs a little more for the initial installation, and
there are some maintenance issues with it. He thought we should take into account
how much less storm water piping would be needed if this were used.
Lee noted this would be an option and would never be a requirement. Stoltz
thought we could push some developers on the issue.
Herron said the Conservation Commission did some great research on
surrounding cities and what they do or do not allow. She asked if this would be
applicable to both commercial and residential and if we would address those
separately. Stoltz thought it would be an option anywhere. Pitzrick thought the
key thing is that it is not good for heavy truck traffic areas.
Jester asked how the question of maintenance is addressed within the City code.
Franzen said the only section of code dealing with maintenance is that trees that
die must be replaced. Pitzrick asked if we require that storm water drains on
commercial property be cleaned out. Fox said City staff goes out and cleans sump
basins as part of the infrastructure maintenance. He said we have dealt with
associations about different things like trails and landscaping but it becomes very
difficult to go back after the fact. Pitzrick said it would be good if we could add
rain gardens and permeable surfaces to the maintenance for storm water ponds.
Olson said hard surfaced driveways deteriorate and must be maintained so market
forces come into play for maintenance issues. Fox said the average resident will
do maintenance but a lot of people don't put money into preventive maintenance
so our trail system may be in better shape than some of the driveways in the City.
Jester said surfaces that are not maintained well do not absorb storm water. She
thought enough research is out there and the technology has come far enough that
we don't need to be too skeptical.
Olson asked if anyone has approached the Planning Commission about pervious
surfaces. Stoltz said we have suggested they look into it but haven't had them
come to us. Franzen said we have looked at having pervious pavement in a
parking lot if there is no room for a rainwater garden. Olson then asked what the
stance of the Planning Commission would be if they were approached about it.
Stoltz said they would probably look to staff in that case. Franzen thought we
would be better off to change the code and put in something about pervious
pavement options. He noted we have pavers all over the City. Stoltz said the
commission would certainly be for it.
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Jester said we are taking a look at what other cities have. Pitzrick said Plymouth
was the only city to make a comment encouraging pervious pavers. Wuttke said
the concern would be the level of expectation for contractors about the subgrading
required. Jester said we can't advocate for certain contractors but wondered if we
could give them a list. Herron said we can tell them who did a particular project.
D. Comments and Feedbacks
Stoltz asked if there is a certification process that the contractors need to go
through. Wuttke said there isn't that he knows of. Olson asked if it would make
sense to include language about subsurface preparation in the code or require
inspection by the City. Franzen said the first thing is to get the right specs, and we
might let developers know we will inspect to make sure the requirements are
followed.
Lee asked about the problems caused if it doesn't work. Jester thought it is just
that it doesn't work like it should. Pitzrick said in a commercial setting we would
consider the impact it would have on the storm water. Brown noted if the surface
is not prepared properly we would have problems with buckling and appearance.
Jester said we will keep working on this and get something to the Planning
Commission in the next few months.
Jester said solar energy and wind turbines are something that staff is trying to
work on. Stoltz said Best Buy came to us about their wind turbine as they needed
a variance for one of the two they put in. Brown said they are developing solar
shingles and there are a lot of other things coming. Stoltz asked Mr. Pitzrick if he
had any surprises with his new solar system. Pitzrick said they just hooked it up
last week, and it appears one section is not hooked up properly. He noted we have
talked about SafeLane®, which is a surface put on top of blacktop to reduce the
amount of road salt needed. It was developed in Michigan and is licensed by
Cargill. Some of the research studies showed there is improved safety on the
roads if it is used.
The workshop was adjourned at 6:50 PM.