HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 09/02/2010 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 2, 2010 6:00 P.M. MET AT CITY CENTER
FOR TRIP TO FAA AIR ROUTE
TRAFFIC CONTROL CENTER,
FARMINGTION, MN
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Vice-Chair Jeff Larsen; Commissioners:
Judy Gentry, Mark Michelson (joined group
at Traffic Control Center), Jeff Nawrocki
and Kurt Schendel
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Chair Rick King and Commissioner Greg
McKewan
VISITORS: Dana Swanson, MAC and Chad Leqve,
MAC
FAA REPRESENTATIVES: Matt Cabak and Mark Harris
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner; Carol Pelzel,
City Recorder
I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL
Vice-Chair Larsen called the meeting to order at 6:06 p.m. Kipp and Michelson will join
the Commission at the Traffic Control Center.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Larsen said he had several items he would like to add to the agenda time permitting. The
first is an update on MAC noise letters.
Larsen said he also wanted to provide the Commission with an update on the security
report he presented to the City Council at their July 20 meeting. Everyone on the City
Council was appreciative of the efforts of this Commission. Council Member Nelson was
happy with the responses to her questions regarding security and safety. Council Member
Aho was very positive in his remarks about the job done in terms of the security report.
Larsen said he would like an update on the residential noise testing. Lewis indicated at their
last meeting all residential noise testing would be done and Larsen thought there might be a
report. Nawrocki said Lewis would not be at this evening's meeting and he was not sure the
report has been completed.
Larsen would like to add a Flying Cloud Fields update to the agenda. He understands the
City and MAC are not in full agreement. Nawrocki said more information would be
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
September 2, 2010
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available at the next meeting and he suggested they discuss it then. They are very close to
reaching an agreement.
Larsen indicated a letter from Jennifer Lewis to Chair King regarding concerns by Mr. and
Mrs. Neuharth for nighttime aircraft operations was included in the Commission's agenda
material. In that letter, Lewis indicated she would have more information on the particular
helicopter and other noise violations and he wondered if that information had been
provided.
Larsen said they could discuss the Flying Cloud Fields update at the Commission's next
meeting and asked that the other items be added to the agenda under VI. Discussion Items.
MOTION: Gentry moved, seconded by Schendel, to approve the agenda as modified. The
motion carried, 4-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. COMMISSION AIRPORT TOUR HELD THURSDAY,JULY 8, 2010
On Page 2, third paragraph, Gentry asked that the last sentence be corrected to
read "His work is down,but hopeful for the future."
MOTION: Gentry moved, seconded by Schendel, to approve the July 8, 2010,
airport tour minutes as amended. Motion carried, 4-0.
B. COMMISSION MEETING HELD THURSDAY,JULY 8, 2010
On page 3, third paragraph, second to the last sentence, Gentry questioned what
the word "granular" meant. King had used this word when discussing a policy for
noise letters. Since King was not present to explain what he meant by this, Gentry
suggested they continue this item to their next meeting.
Larsen asked that the word "community" in the fourth paragraph of Page 4 be
changed to "Commission" and the last sentence of the sixth paragraph on Page 4
be changed to read "Nawrocki said these flights would be considered pre-
notification so they wouldn't get a letter."
Larsen said formal action on these minutes will be taken at the next Commission
meeting.
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
September 2, 2010
Page 3
Gentry said the May minutes indicated Nawrocki would provide the Commission
with the Airport Security Guide MAC had prepared. She asked if that guide had
been received. Nawrocki said he did supply Kipp with copies but would bring
more to the next Commission meeting.
V. GUEST SPEAKERS
VI. DISCUSSION ITEMS
Larsen explained Chair King had sent him an e-mail stating he is unable to attend this
evening's meeting and that he would like the Commission to resolve the issue regarding
the mailing of noise letters. Kipp had received a red lined copy of the proposed letter
from Chad Leqve with MAC. Larsen questioned if the City Attorney had reviewed and
approved that letter. Larsen said he personally does not have any problems with the letter
and it makes sense to consolidate the complaints into one letter. He also stated it appeared
from previous discussions the consensus of the Commission was that a single letter for
multiple complaints made sense. If any Commission members have problems with this
letter the Commission can address those concerns. King would like the Commission to
come up with a recommendation to the City Council.
Gentry suggested they wait to hear if the City Attorney approved this letter before they
make any recommendation. Schendel questioned if the letter is similar to what MAC has
previously sent out other than consolidating the complaints. Nawrocki said he believes
the letter is the same with the exception of the listing of operations.
(See Item VI. B. below for additional discussion of this item.)
RECESS
A recess was called at 6:40 p.m. with the meeting to reconvene after a tour of the FAA
Air Route Traffic Control Center in Farmington, MN
A. TOUR OF FAA AIR ROUTE TRAFFIC CONTROL CENTER,
FARMINGTON, MN
Commissioner Michelson, Scott Kipp, Chad Leqve and Dana Swanson joined the
Commission.
Matt Cabak, Air Traffic Controller, welcomed the Commission and introduced
Mark Harris, Air Traffic Controller. He explained the Minneapolis Air Route
Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) is one of 22 route centers that make up the air
space system for the entire United States. The Center is broken into six different
areas of air space and those areas are broken into sectors. There are 7,000
airplanes in mass in communication with the Minneapolis Center. The role of an
ARTCC is to provide for the safe, orderly, and expeditious flow of instrument
flight rules aircraft between airports. Centers also provide departure and approach
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
September 2, 2010
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control services at airports not served by an approach control facility. Minneapolis
Center is responsible for the safe progression of air traffic in an area extending
over 330,000 square miles of airspace. This airspace covers all or parts of nine
states; including Minnesota, Iowa, South Dakota, North Dakota, Wisconsin,
Nebraska, Michigan, Kansas, and Missouri. Minneapolis Center services 18
separate approach control facilities and 210 airports with authorized instrument
approach procedures.
Cabak presented a video on what occurs at the Minneapolis Center and reviewed
the services that are provided to the pilots by this Center.
The Commission toured the Traffic Management Unit Center and the operational
areas of the center. There are six areas with approximately 50 certified
professional controllers in each area with six and eight sectors per area.
On behalf of the Commission, Larsen thanked Cabak and Harris for their
hospitality and for the informative tour.
B. MAC NOISE LETTERS TO FCM AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS
(The Flying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission reconvened at 9:01 p.m.)
(See additional discussion of this item under Discussion Items above.)
Larsen again explained that Chair King wanted the Commission to address the
noise complaint letters issued to people in apparent violation of the voluntary
protocols. One of the questions Larsen had is if the letter included in the
Commission's agenda material from Chad Leqve had been reviewed by the City
Attorney and if so, did he find the change to the letter acceptable. Kipp said the
City Attorney did review the letter and felt the language changes were fine.
Larsen said the Commission has talked about this subject a number of different
occasions and it seemed the general consensus of the Commission is that they are
in favor of forwarding a recommendation to the City Council to change the way
the noise letters are sent out from the existing method of sending them for each
violation. The new format would be more in a statement form that collects the
violation information over a period of time and a letter would be sent out once a
month rather than for each violation.
Kipp explained the proposed letter does not require City Council approval. The
City Attorney looked at the letter and feels it is in compliance with the existing
language within the Final Agreement. This revised letter is something the City
Manager could accept. Larsen asked if the Commission should then make a
recommendation to the City Manager stating they like the new format and that the
new procedure should be implemented.
Michelson questioned if the Commission wants to move forward with this letter
without a City Council recommendation. Once they do this, it is done and if it is
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September 2, 2010
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within the guidelines, there is no reason for MAC to change back. He suggested
they get City Council approval even if they are not required to do so. At least let
them know the Commission has done this and that the City Attorney has reviewed
the letter. Michelson said he feels this letter is the way to address the violations
and he is in favor of it, however, he would like City Council endorsement of this
procedure.
Kipp suggested this information be sent to the City Manager and to let the City
Manager decide whether or not the City Council is required to look at it.
Michelson suggested they wait until after the election so this issue doesn't
become political.
Larsen explained they are an Advisory Commission and it is not their place to
accept or reject the letter but to make recommendations to the City Manager and
to the City Council. Larsen said it is in the best interest of all parties involved to
go through this modified procedure and perhaps they should let the City Manager
make the decision of whether or not the letter should be reviewed by the City
Council.
MOTION: Motion was made by Schendel, seconded by Michelson, to table
discussion of the MAC noise letter to the November meeting to determine what
the City government will look like after the election. The motion carried, 5-0.
C. MULTILATERATION PROJECT UPDATE
Leqve reported MAC is in the final stages of developing the web based flight
tracking application. They anticipate that will be available on MAC's website
October 1. He indicated at the November meeting MAC staff will do a
demonstration of that technology.
D. NEUHARTH LETTER
Larsen said in the Commission's agenda material there was a letter to Chair King
from MAC regarding a letter sent to Mr. and Mrs. Neuharth. Lewis from MAC
had sent information to the Neuharth's stating she would have more information
about their helicopter complaints and would forward that information to them
once she received it. Larsen was questioning if that information was forwarded to
the Neuharth's and suggested since Lewis was not at this meeting it be discussed
at their November meeting.
VII. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
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VIII. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC
A. NOISE COMPLAINTS/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS REPORT (JULY-
AUGUST)
Swanson explained the report distributed only covers the month of July.
Complainants have until September 5 to file August complaints so the August
information was not complete. Swanson said as requested by the Commission,
they did a complaint to operation correlation and that information is included on
the report. The report now includes a column for correlation and a column for
aircraft type. There were 491 complaints for July, 2010 compared to 419 in July,
2009. Of the 491 complaints, 425 of them were correlated to an operation and 28
of the complaints were not correlated to an operation. There were 36 complaints
that were duplicate complaints correlated to the same operation and two run-up
complaints not correlated to an identified run-up. Swanson reported there were
175 FCM nighttime operations with 72 operations generating one or more
complaints.
In response to a question from Schendel, Swanson explained the report does not
show multiple complaints for the same flights. Swanson further reported there
were 306 operations in July that generated one or more complaints.
Michelson said he had contacted Swanson and asked for data from May/June. He
took those complaints and reviewed them as if they were compressed into one day
and generated four scenarios. Michelson reviewed those scenarios with the
Commission and explained his information showed most complaints were
occurring between 5 a.m. and 6 a.m. Michelson said he would have thought most
of the complaints would have occurred between 10 p.m. and midnight He said he
would now like to determine which day of the week most of the complaints are
received. Michelson asked Swanson to provide him with the information from
July/August.
IX. OTHER BUSINESS
Michelson said at the last City Council meeting there was discussion between MAC and
the City Council regarding zoning restrictions for a business development park. It was his
understanding the City wants to get some legal understanding about the zoning and its
implications from MAC. There appeared to be some controversy and he suggested the
Commission be provided with an update on this issue at their next meeting.
Leqve said he understands the discussions between MAC's legal counsel and City staff
have gone very well and they are on the path to a conclusion. Michelson asked for an
update at their November meeting. Larsen said he would also like an update on the ball
fields at Flying Cloud.
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
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A. VARIOUS FYI ITEMS
1. Approved FCAAC Minutes of May 13, 2010
2. Report to City Council—Review of Security at Flying Cloud Airport
3. Next Commission meeting—November 4, 2010
X. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Motion was made by Gentry, seconded by Michelson, to adjourn the
meeting. Motion carried, 5-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.