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HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 10/16/1978 i 1978 OCTOBER 2 , 16 MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE AGENDA C 'DEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, OCTOBER 2, 1978 7:30 P.M. , CITY HALL i COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Anderson, Chairperson; David Anderson, Steve Fifield, William Garens, Robert Johnson, Robert Kruell , George Tangen COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services Approx. Time to Begin Item 7:30 I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 7:35 III . MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 18, 1978 IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS // A. Reports of Commissioners `_ 1. B. Reports of Staff 7:40 1. Request to Advertise for Bids on Removal of House at 8698 Co. Road 18 7:55 2. Cash Park Fee 8:00 3. Shoreland Management Ordinance 8:15 4. Minnesota State Historical Society Grant 8:35 5. Tax Forfeited Lands VI. OLD BUSINESS 8:45 A. Bond Issue - Proposal , Plans, Dates, Etc. i 9:00 B. Eden Prairie Community Center 9:15 C. Tot Lots VII. NEW BUSINESS 1:30 A. Change at Eden Prairie Stables l 9:45 B. Mitchell Lake LAWCON Grant 10:00 VIII. ADJOURNMENT APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COPITISSION MONDAY, OCTOBER 2, 1978 7:30 PM, CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Richard Anderson, Chairperson; � David Anderson, Steve Fifield, William Garens, Robert Johnson, Robert Kruell, George Tangen COMMISSION MEM3FRS ABSENT: None COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services OTHERS PRESENT: Jerry Wigen, Al Dybier, E.P. Sun; y Richard Dahl, E.P. News j T. ROL L CALL C n�iirman Anderson called the meeting to order at 7:30 PM. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA h Additions wore: V.A.1 . Lower Minnesota River Valley- Richard Anderson VI.D. Removal of Disease - Garens _1 VI.E. Phillips Temro Corpora ion- Kruell ;tiS VII.C. Agenda Sc e- u ng- Garens ?Y P; I40TI01v: Dave Anderson moved to approve the agenda with the additions. Fifield seconded, motion carried unanimously. ' ,cw III. MINUTES OF SEPT94BER 18, 1976 MEETING a Pg. 3, finnl para. , delete "Dave Anderson voting 'Nay' "; add 'Dave -A Anderson left meeting". Pg- 4, para.. 2, delete "have two engineers inspect the tennis courts also"; add "have the city engineer inspect the tennis courts also". ?� Pg. L}, para. 7, delete '`on lots 13.5"; insert "on lots less than 13.5". MuT.j.ON: Garens moved to approve the m,-riutes of the September 16, 197- } meeting as amnerided. Johnson seconded the motion, it carried with Fifield abstaining. on IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNTI.CATTONS A. None V. RECONINIENDATIONS AND REPORTS 4 A. Reports of Commissioners 1 . Lower Minnesota River Valley Richard Anderson reported to the commission on a meeting he had attended at the Minnesota Recreation and Park Association's ° :sue 1; P r -2- Parks, Recreation & Natural -approved Minutes October 2, 1970 Resources Commission 1 . Lower Minnesota River Valley (cont►d) fall conference concerning the preservation of the lower Minnesota River Valley. The Federal Fish and Wildlife Service and the State D.N.R. representatives encouraged communities to discuss their ideas for the river valley. With $14 million for development they would like input from locals. B. Reports of Staff 1 . Request to Advertise for Bids on Removal of House at 8698 County Road 18 Bob Lambert explained the need to dispose of the hou.ser, p the property at 8698 Co. Road 180 before any further vandalism occurs. He mentioned that he has already been contacted by prospective buyers, and recommends the -sale-'of the'house this fall. There is another city-owned house on Nesbitt Preserve Park, presently boarded up and being used for storage by Ban-Con_ . He recommended that since the building is an eye-sore, the Oouncil should authorize the 'Fire Department •to burn the house this winter. Kruell asked f or a description of the house .on Co. Road 18. Bob described it as a story and one-half, approximately 301by 30 ' , and being about 40-50 years old. MOTION: Tangen moved that the Commission recommend to the Council approval of the staff recommendation to sell the house at 8698 Co. Road 18, and to dispose of the house on Preserve Park. Dave Anderson seconded; motion carried unanimously. 2. Cash Park Fee Lambert described the difficulties in developing a specific formula to relate to the inflation factor as it occurs annually in the"cash. park foie." Kruell asked for a comparison of Eden Prairie is fees with those of othor similarly populated and developed communities. He was told that we are very close to the norm. Bob cited that 'Woodbury receives $300, Cottage Grove receives :�275, as does Eden Prairie, for a single family lot. Kruell then asked Lambert to see if now fees could be charged to old plats. I llll Garcns suF;gested that although a split fee might be considered, ho doesn' t think that future development on todayis fees i:; a good idea. Rather, the balance of the split fee should reflect fees which are current at the time of the development, r -3- Parks, Recreation & Natural approved Minuten October 2, 197d Resources Commission C2. Cash Park Fee (cont'd) Dave Anderson discussed the possibility of allowing the developer to pay in advance of development, the entire current fee, and not be affected by the futures-changes in the fee. He felt it would simplify bookkeeping and offer a choice to the builder. MOTION: Garens moved that the staff be directed to address the "cash park fee" issue on the first Commission meeting in November of each year. At that time, the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission would have a chance to evaluate the status of neighborhood park acquisition and development, and review acquisition and development costs in relation to the existing "cash park fee", and change it if dosired. Dick Anderson seconded, and the motion carried unanimously. MOTION: Garens then moved that the residential developer � have the option in payment of the Cash Park Fee. He could pay the existing fee at the time of the developmental approval; or at the rate prevailing when the building permit is issued- which may be highor than the rate at the time of the initial approval. Kruell seconded this motion. During the discussion which followed, the question of the legality of both. options was raised by Kruell. The motion was withdrawn by Garens. MOTION: Tangen moved that the city attorney ;be consulted concerning the legality of both options before the commission act on them. Seconded by Garens, the motion passed unanimously. MOTION: Kruell moved that the Oash Park Pee be changed to $325 per single family and $1400 per acre for commercial and industrial property. The motion died for lack of a second.. Dick Anderson asked for a staff recommendations on Cash Park Fees at the next meeting. i 3. Shorela.nd Hanagement Ordinance Lambert inf ormod the commission that the Planning Commission wishod to meet Jointly with them to discuss several concerns and questions they have about the Perks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commissions suggested revision of the Shoreland Mnnagamon t: Ordinance. Kruoll suggested that each icomraission should send individual t, recommendations to the Council. r Parks, Recreation & Natural approved Minutes October 2, 1978 Resources Commission 3. Sh.oreland Management Ordinance (eontid) �l Chairman Anderson directed the staff to put a combination meeting of the Planning Commission and the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources 'Commission on the agenda for 9:00 PM at the October 16, 1978 meeting. ! . !}. Minnesota State Horticultural Society Grant Lambert informed the commission of a possible $15,000 matching. funds grant which could be applied for by Eden Prairie for landscaping purposes. The staff drew up several possibilities for the commission to consider. They are contained in the September 29, 1976, Memorandum on Alternatives for the 1970 Reforestation Monies. Garens felt that the intent of the grant was for planting in narks in a city such as ours, with close proximity to botanioal gardens, and an arboretum. Kruell sta.teci -that the program should come from the people, not be devised to fit grant possibilities. He felt that City money should be used to cover perk planting. Dave Anderson pointed out that the people had requested further plantings in the new,Preserve Park, and the money the City saves by using a grant could be applied elsewhere. MOTION: Dave Anderson moved to direct the staff to apply for the grant from the Minnesota State Horticultural Society. This grant is to be based on items 2 and 3 from the September 29, 1976, staff memorandum on Alternatives for 1970 Reforestation Monies. Seconded by Garens, motion passed, with Kruell voting "nay". 5. Tax Forfeited Lands i Lambert introduced the properties included oii the tax forfeited list. Garens asked about the procedure of tax forfeited lands being offered for sale. Bob explained that, and then went into a brief history of the Gorra property. It was included on the list because the deed was not filed from the attorneys office. The city may claim tax forfeited property for public use, and there will be no problem„ Tangen questioned the benefit of the Westgate property to the city. Bob explained the location, the topography, and its possible uses. He pointed out that the aquisition of the property does not obligate the city to develop it. l Kruell stated that he: war told that part of the Gestgate property had been declared Public Water, r Parks, Recreation & Natural approved Minutes October 2, 1978 Resources Commission 5. Tax Forfeited Lrulds (cont ,d) Lambert was asked to look into this. MOTION: Tangen moved to a_,prove the staff recomendation from the memorandum of September 28, 1978, on Application for Conveyance of Tax Forfeited Lands; plus the council should look at the Westgate parcel for a possible natural area. Gnr()ns secondod and the motion was passed unanimously. Ch.-7.irnaan Anderson cnllod for a ten minute break at 8:50. VI. OLD BUSING?,SS B. Eden Prairie Community Center Refe.rrinC to tf)e figures .riven in the staff memoranduan of September 29,1978, Jerry Wigen stated that those figures were not final. They could be changed by altering the style of the building, or its size; it could be cheaper than the :$600,000 figure or more elaborate than the $950,000 f:'gure. This would depend on tlao wishes of the community. At this point, all they wanted was the support of the commission, concerning the concept of a community center, since this could enable them to obtain additional pledges and grants. Wigen also pointed out several trays the proposed facility could return some revenues. It could be A. versatile Facility, he felt. Lambert recommended a joint committee with representatives from the Schools, the City, and the ice arena committee to look into all the possibilities. Krucll questioned whether such a committee would be objective. Davos Anderson added that Eden Pra.irie hrLs been contacted by several other communities, even Edina., about the possibility of renting; ice. Trangen suggested that a. time limit be set for the committee for Choir report. P•?OTION: Tn.ngen moved that the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission support th.e concept of a Community Center for the City of Eden Prairie, and request the City vouncil to establish. a joint committee with representatives from the School, the City, and the ice wrens. committee to gather detailed information on site selection, design of the facility, the pro deed program and operation structure, cost pro,jeeti.ons,and financing options. This committee should file the data and make reports �in nine months; and report back to the Planning Commission, the �P^rks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission, the School Bo:i.rd an(! the City Council. Davy, Anderson soconded the motion. Discussion: Dicic Anderson stated that he feels the term "Community Center" is misleading, as opposed to "Ice Center". -6- Parks, Recreation & Natural approved Minutes October 2, 1978 Resources Commission (' 13. Eden Prairie Community Center (cont1d) Iie also questioned where this concept falls in line with other priorities of th.e commission. Anderson also questioned whether it was i appropriate to approve concept before the study. i Krue11 wanted both the strong points and the weals points to be brought out in the study. Fifield folt that "Community Sports Center" would be a more appropriate title. Vote: The motion carried, with one "nay", and Kruell abstaining. A. Bond Issue A general discussion to review possible park locations took place. Kruell asked if the cO::rlmission could ua mtee to g people that j designmted sites would be dove loped as pants after n bond issue wn.s p.^tsaad. Lambert suggested that the city council could possibly pick up options on parcels prior to the bond _issue. He then recommended that the commissioners talk to people in the community for ideas and hole. Dick And©rson as3ced Lambert to refer to the 1974 Bond Issue to determine sixteen areas; to split the community into sections and make contacts from,each of those areas. C. Tot Lots I40TTOD1: G.-trans moved that the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission follow the staff reeomendation to meet cai.th t;he Council to discuss neighborhood parks and tot lots in IUd-Idovember. Dick Anderson seconded, and motion passed uI1:!.I7im,ous ly. I D. Removal of Di.sr,ased Elm G,l.rens aske,:l. about the current d= lay in picking up diseased calm wood. Lr.mbert explainod that they had equipment problems and problems with contractors not showing up. Richard Anderson asked if people whose trees are on lawns could be given priority over th.ose people] whose trees stand on undeveloped land. Lambert replied that since all property OUmers had the s^me; amount Of time to take down the disessad trees, they Ilsd m. right; to expect the semo service for removed. (, E. Phillips Temr` o Corporft� on Kruell asked when the commission had given its approval for this 4 -7- Parks, Recreation & Natural approved Minutes October 2, 1976 Resources Commission E. Phillips Temro Corporation (cont1d) development. He was told it had been done long ago its part of an industrial zoning not. VIT. N'Ed BUSINESS A. Change at Edon Prairie Stables Lambert reported that a change in manegers had oecured at the stables This change will not affect the City, since their lease is with Glen Lorenz and does not name a specific manager. B. Mitchell Lake LAWCON Grant Lambert reported the high ranking of the Mitchell Lake Community I. Park site by the Metropolitan Council and the State Planning Agency. He suggested the possibility of requesting funds from the Riley Creek Watershed District for a portion of the aquisition i costs. Other possibilities include asking the Council to act to allow the city to go beyond the levy limit to save the project. l : There are also some rental income funds. When asked about liquor store profits, he explained that they were going back into expansion of the liquor store this year. C Agenda Scheduling �- Garens raised the possibility of scheduling general business before developers who come in'.tso spoak, in an effort to shorten presentations. Could they be scheduled for 9:00 or 9:30 rather th.nn early in the agenda? i Tangen felt thnt visitors shouldn' t have to wait through the commission ' s business discussion. IIe felt that it could actually slow the meeting, rathor than speed it. Richnrd Anderson suggested that the developers presentations could be limited to a predetermined amount of time. VIII. ADJOt7RNM.r,,lTT Garens moved to adjourn at 10:15 PM; Fifield seconded, motion pressed unanimously. i Respectfully submitted, Georgia Jessen, Recording Secrotnry + I i AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, OCTOBER 16, 1978 7:30 P.M., CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Anderson, Chairperson; David Anderson, Steve Fifield, William Garens, Robert Johnson, Robert Kruell, George Tangen COMMISSION STAFF: Robert Lambert, Director of Community Services Approx. Time to Begin Item 7:30 I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 7:35 III. MINUTES OF OCTOBER 2, 1978 IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS None V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS (_ A. Reports of Commissioners 1. B. Reports of Staff 7:40 1. Senior Citizen Transportation Program 8:00 2. Chamber of Commerce Resident - Sample Survey 8:10 3. Homeward Hills Park VI. OLD BUSINESS 8:30 A. Cross County Ski Trail Groomer and Track Setter 8:45 B. Camp Frontier 9:00 C. Shoreland Management Ordinance - Discussion with Planning Commission VII. NEW BUSINESS A. VIII. ADJOURNMENT r APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION I MONDAY, OCTOBER 16, 1978 7:30 P.M. , CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Richard Anderson, Chairperson; David Anderson, Steve Fifield, William Garens, Robert Johnson, Robert Kruell, George Tangen i COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: None COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services OTHERS PRESENT: I. ROLL CALL Chairperson Anderson called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Addition of: VI. A. - Snowmobile Trail - Kruell V. Bl. Discussion with Mayor - Dick Anderson MOTION: Fifield moved to approve agenda as published and amended. Johnson seconded, motion carried unanimously. I. MINUTES OF OCTOBER 2, 1978 MEETING September 18, 1978 minutes - Pg. 3, final para, do not delete "Dave Anderson voting nay" and add "Dave Anderson left the meeting at 10:35 p.m." October 2, 1978 minutes - Pg. 6, para. 1, add " Anderson also questioned whether it was appropriate to approve concept before the study." MOTION: Garens moved to approve minutes of September 18, 1978 and October 2, 1978 as published and amended. Dave Anderson seconded, motion carried unanimously. IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS None V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners Dick Anderson reported on his conversation with Mayor Penzel regarding the communication problems between the Commission and the Council. Anderson requested that Commission members and Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services, compile a list of basic issues (Cash Park Fee, tot lots, where does money come from for development) for the November 6, 1978 meeting and submit to the Council for a joint meeting to be set by the Mayor. i Minutes - Parks, Recreation $ .approved Oct. 16, 1978 Natural Resources Commission -2- C B. Reports of Staff 1. Senior Citizen Transportation Program Lambert referred to the 5 options in memo dated 10/6/78 from Sandy Werts. He stated that the recent senior citizens survey indicated transportation would be used and that senior citizens are asking for a program. Dave Anderson asked if there was a fee involved in each of these options. Lambert felt fees should be reasonable, but there should be a fee. Lambert suggested perhaps no fee to Congregate Dining and Club meetings, but personal trips ( medical, shopping, etc.) a nominal fee be charged. Dave Anderson questioned benefits of $600. Lambert indicated that he did not see drivers getting benefits, but sees drivers as a contractual service. Dave Anderson asked if this was to be strictly a City program. Lambert responded that he sees it as a joint program with the City and Community Education. Kruell asked if it was appropriate for this subject to fall under the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission. Lambert responded that his title is Director of Community Services and felt that it was appropriate for the Commission to deal with it. Lambert reported that senior citizens have volunteered to drive. Fifield Cquestioned the need for a chauffeurs license. Lambert stated that if there are less than 12 passengers this was not necessary. Dick Anderson questioned the possibility of school bus drivers volunteering their time to drive. Lambert said it should be noted that during times when the van was not being used for senior citizen activities it would be available for teen programs, etc. There was a discussion of using Red Cross for transportation, available funding or service organizations. Kruell stated a need to be convinced there is a demand for transportation service. Garens suggested using Red Cross (paying them) to see if we have a need. MOTION: Garens moved to direct staff to come back with a report on the possibility of subsidizing Red Cross to offer more transportation services to the City of Eden Prairie; also to inquire about using the school van with volunteer drivers for a few months to see if this service would really be used. He also recommended staff to contact the various community service agencies to see how many people would commit to volunteering as drivers. Motion was seconded and passod. l r Minutes - Parks Recreation & approved Oct. 16, 1978 Natural Resources Commission -3- C B. Reports of Staff (con't) 2. Chamber of Commerce Resident-Sample Survey Lambert stated this was an item of information and no action was necessary. It was stated that the survey was taken at Eden Prairie in Action. Dick Anderson felt it had some validity and should be filed and recorded. i MOTION: Kruell moved to acknowledge receiving the survey and carry along with discussion of ice rink and future bond issue. Dave Anderson seconded, motion carried unanimously. Garens felt the survey was not a true random sample and, therefore, the data should be considered invalid. 3. Homeward Hills Park Lambert presented a workable plan for this 20 acre site. BFI will sell 20 acres at $4,000/acre, or $80,000. Lambert recommended an option or a contract for deed. It woudl cost approximately $70,000 to dredge the 3 acre pond and grade the site to make the plan workable. Kruell asked if you had to pile sand on the peat. Lambert replied yes, to make it stable. Garens asked about -the power lines over the ballfields. Lambert said there is no safety problem involved. Kruell felt $4,000/acre to be high, Lambert said that $4,000/acre is BFI's lowest price. MOTION: Kruell moved that the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources s Commission recommend to the Council that no purchase be made at the present time for designated Homeward Hills Park site. Motion died for lack of second. Garens asked with the Cash Park Fee at the present rate what will area raise? Lambert reported approximately $170,000-$190,000. MOTION: Garens moved to recommend to the Council to either acquire an option or enter into a contract for deed for the 20 acre park site at this location at a fee not to exceed $4,000 per acre. Fifield seconded, motion carried unanimously. VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Cross County Ski Trail Groomer and Track Setter - Snowmobile Trails Lambert stated that the memo dated October 13, 1978 was self explanatory. Mr. Stelten is requesting $600 for the season to groom 15 miles of, trails ten times during the season, and $25/hr. after 10 groomings. MOTION: Kruell moved to request the Council to enter into an agreement to have groomed trails. Tangen seconded, motion carried unanimously. Kruell requested to advise the Snowmobile Trail Club that groomed trails are off limits and this will be enforced. Minutes - Parks Recreation & approved Oct. 16, 1978 Natural Resources Commission -4- VI. OLD BUSINESS (con't) B. Camp Frontier Lambert stated that the option on the parkland in this area of the City ran out . a year ago last December. At this time, we have no park site in this area. Garens said that $6,000 per ac:re looked reasonable for this park site. i MOTION: Tangen moved to recommend to the City Council the possibility of this site to be purchased for park purposes. Fifield seconded, motion carried unanimously. VII. NEW BUSINESS None VIII. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m. to go into the joint meeting with the Planning Commission to discuss the Shoreland Management Ordinance. Marlys Dahl Recording Secretary r MINUTES FOR JOINT MEETING C ; PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION AND PLANNING COMMISSION October 16, 1978, Monday 9.00 PM, CITY HALL PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Rod Sundstrom, Matthew Levitt, Oke Martinson, Liz Retterath PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: William Bearman, Richard Lynch and Paul Redpath PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Richard Anderson, Dave Anderson, Steve Fifield, William Garens, Robert Johnson, Robert Kruell , and George Tangen STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Chris Enger, Planning Director Robert Lambert, Director of Community Service Donna Stanley, Planning Secretary I. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Approved. II. MEMBERS REPORTS None. III. REPORTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS A. Discussion of proposed Ordinance designating the "Management of Shoreland in the City of Eden Prairie, and Regulating the Use, and Development thereof". City Planner Enger explained that the basic concerns of the Planning Commission were with land uses only, and they were not interested in changing the intent of the Ordinance. The Planner presented the major concerns of the Planning Staff: reinstatement of P.U.D. variance ability suggested in the original State Shoreline Management Act to the revised version by PR & NR Commission; application of setbacks, minimum lot sizes, lot widths, regarding sewered areas to the shoreline lots only to protect against crowding potential around the lake or stream ff—sETf; and proposed classifications of lakes. 5. r _I } October 16, 1978 j Minutes - Joint Meet. Plan. Com../ - 2 - PR & NR Commission Director of Community Services, Bob Lambert, explained that the PR & NR Commission feels that the P.U.D. provision seems to be a way around everything that the PR & NR Commission is trying to accomplish with the Shoreline Management Act. Chairman of PR & NR Commission,Dick Andersonlasked the questicn of how can we best protect our most valuable natural resources - by PUD or by Ordinance? He felt that taking the strictest approach was the best way to accomplish this. Kruell , PR & NR Commission, explained that the City can compromise from a 1 ,000' restriction on abutting lots, but it is difficult with the City had the mechanism to protect anything less. He did not feel wetlands. Tangen, PR & NR Commission, added that they had discussed and were aware that 1 ,000 ft. may not be applicable in some areas because of topography.. Tangen added further that he would rather see a variance from this Shoreline Management Act, than through PUD, because of the control . The Planner asked what other types of thinking could be considered before giving a variance, referring to Pg. 8 of the State Regulations. He pointed out that the City will have overlapping areas in cases such as in the Purgatory Creek Study or Anderson Lakes Study. Levitt, Planning Commission, pointed out that a great deal of shoreland in Eden Prairie is under City ownership, and there is some that is not - but will be. He felt that the Planning Commission was not in disagree- ment about abutting lots, but want the P.U.D. provision available because of land that does not abutt the shoreline, such as in the Centex project. The City Planner felt that with the need for neighborhood parks, we need J the money generated from lots with more than one unit .per acre. Kruell explained, that from the PR & NR Commission standpoint, they want to remove the higher density development away from the shore, I noting that in the P.U.D. process in order to increase the -taxbase, a density trade-off is made with the developer. Chairman Sundstrom pointed out that he did not feel there should be P.U.D. flexibility on the abutting lots, but beyond that. He felt we should ask whether we were uncomfortable with the types of development i or density trade-off - is this non-preservation? Anderson stated that he is in favor of most of the land that Chairman ' is remaining to be in public ownership. t '6 rens left at 10:00 PM. i Minutes - Joint Meet. Plan. Com./ PR & NR Commission - 3 - October 16, 1978 Various P.U.D. situations were discussed by the Commissions and their effect on development. Kruell , referring to the Edengate project, pointed out that the Flood Plain Ordinance was presently being violated by filling within the 100' restriction. Enger responded that he would look into this violation. Chairman Anderson suggested dealing more specificially with the shoreland remaining. Community Director Lambert asked whether the P.U.D:provisions would be acceptable if it did not affect lots along the lake shore. PR & NR Commissioners were not opposed to this, but did want strict restrictions. Tanqen requested the Staff to prepare Draft P.U.D. with some of these ideas' that have been expressed tonight. The Planner summarized the ideas offered and agreed to come back with a Map showing areas already planned, and determine what would make sense as far as land use for lakes and other bodies of water as shown in the Guide Plan, and outline specifically what type of'land use we would like to see in these remaining areas. Chairman Sundstrom, noting that these were not land uses, listed the following thoughts the Commission had discussed: definition or size of dock - concern with allowing for use for educational purposes and for the handicapped; suggestion of more precise terminology on pg. 17for the word "feasible";&suggestion of same fee for permit and variance requests to eliminate confusion. The Commissions agreed that there was a need for both Commissions to have the opportunity to communicate, and they expressed the desire to meet periodically. V. PETITIONS AND REQUESTS - None. VI. NEW BUSINESS - None. VII. PLANNER'S REPORT - None. VIII. ADJOURNMENT Meeting adjourned at 10:45 PM. 5•