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HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 02/07/1977 1977 FEBRUARY 7 MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE r APPROVED 1; MINUTES JOINT PARKS, REC. AND NATUFLAL RESOURCES COMhISSION AND PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION MEETING 7:00 PM,CITY HALL MONDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 1977 PARKS, REC. AND NATURAL RESOURCES Chairman Marvin Erickson, William Garens, COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Geneva Mid(ileton, Richard Anderson, Randy Retterath, Paul Choiniere, and . Steve Fifield MEMBERS EXCUSED: Jerry Kingrey Francis Helmer, Mary Upton and Tim Pierce NE14BERS ABSENT: PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION ? MofBERS PRESENT: Chairman Don Sorensen, Richard Lynch., Rod Sundstrom, William Bearman, and Herb Fosnocht 14INBERS ABSENT: Norma Schee and Sidney Pauly STAFF, PRESENT: Director of Community Services, Marty Jessen Planning Director, Dick Putnam 1 _ OTHERS PRESENT: Tom Bartel, E. P. News, Mr. & Mrs. James Bublitz, R. D. Twiss, Ray N. Welter, Sr., Ray Welter, Jr., Jim Ostenson-Larry Griffith- & Wally Hustad, Hustad Development, Roy E. Olson, Mrs. G. Offerman, Mrs. Dorothy Menalis, Leo Dorf, Helen Fowler, Werner W. Schulze, Jim Brown, Bob Brown, Don Brauer- Brauer Assoc. Inc., Sharon Holand, and Mrs. Nancy Heinen Chairman Erickson called the meeting to order at 7:05 PM. I. APPROVAL OF OF AgMA Fosnocht moved to approve Agenda as published. Garens seconded. Motion carried unanimously. r II. DISCUSSION OF PURGATORY CREEK Chairman Erickson turned over the Purgatory Creek discussion to Jessen. Jessen gave brief presentation relating to the lower Purgatory Creek area, which lay to the west and south of Co. Rd. 1, and spoke to potential develop- ment proposal by the Hustad Development Co.. He spoke to the commission of F Brauer & Assoc. Inc. to conduct a study of the Purgatory Creek, which revealed nine basic sectors and the possibilities of implementation. He said four of the sectors are completed as parkland or other development. Jessen referred k Minutes - Joint PR & NR and Planning Com. Page two t 1 Approved February 7, 1977 to .recommendations from the Study which included management program of the Lower Purgatory Sector. He turned over discussion to Planning Director,Putnam. ft Putnam spoke to the Hustad proposal and their need to know what they can do and what kind of time schedule they have, and that it is critical that the City makes a decision on this sector. He continued that we have two'options which are: development ?;L as proposed by the Hustad Development Co., that represents a private option; and land y along the rim of the creek as public, with isome development space. He asked whether '. all felt it was a significant resource that should be protected and managed or left as '. a development site. He- asked the two Commissions to discuss these two alternatives ; `- tonight. He turned over the floor to Mr. Wally Hustad to review what they were attempt- ing to do. Hustad agreed to the need to protect the creek valley, and commented that the question was how it is to be done. He said that he represents the feeling that it is best t:r protected by being privately owned, because it is beyond the capability of the City to 1 accomplish this. He continued that he felt there would be a need for fencing and for t� maintenance, and that you will have more people enjoying the creek by having them live along the creek, i,rith proper restrictions, such as required at- Greek Knolls. He added that he feels that the public will destroy the area if the are allowed in and also t , pu Y Y � spoke to significant tax base for the City through the axpense of the homes along the rim. Hustad, referring to the condervancy zone, pointed out that 80 lots would be eliminated through use of this line. CJessen spoke to the tax impact, stating that 100 homes with average market value of 090,000 and based on 3.976 taxes would be $289,100 for one year. He asked for questions and comments. Planning Commissioner Beaiman asked what steps would have to be taken to determine 7 whether there was need for a fence; what kind of usage Would take place; access points and whether there was a •ray of entering without disturbing the wildlife. Jessen res- ponded that he felt because of character there would be no need for a fence, and that if it is properly laid out and it turns out that there is a need, a fence can be pro- vided along this whole area. He added that they had problems with fencing along one portion of Anderson Lake, and he feels that situation is working fairly well at this ?, time. He added that the uses would be such as cross country skiing and no motorized vehicles would be allowed. He continued that in order to accomplish public recreation, we have to invest in public land within transition zone as indicated in Study. Jessen said that there would be a couple of access points, that would be severely limited and would be very primitive. Bearman asked whether there were any figures available as to how many people would i actually use this area. Jessen spoke to the Richfield Wood Lake Nature Center, where presently about 60,000 to 75,000 people pass through their entrance per year. lie added that he feels it is too large of a number for the Lower Purgatory Creek area. Jessen opened the floor to the public. Dorothy Menalis, 9715 Mill Creek Dr., expressed her concern that the police patrols would not be able to get into an area such as this, and spoke to the mounted police that Bloomington uses and its lack of success. Jessen responded that they have dis- cussed this with the Public Safety Dept. and they are concerned with non-authorized persons getting in, and that in the creek bottom area there would be no way for the police to get in, but in the upper rim section there would be road access. ; e. G F. f i Minutes - Joint PR & NR Com. Page three and Planning & Zoning Com. Approved February 7, 1977 `. Mr. Ray Welter, Jr., Pioneer Trail, spoke to loss of taxes and asked whether they had extended their thinking to the future loss, and wherelthe City would get the money to purchase land. Jessen said that their calculations, based on their best guess rather thiin market value, showed that the cost would be 3.3 to3.5 million dollars for acquisition on the non flood plain land in the conservancy and transition t zones. He added that they cannot make assessment of tax loss for . , the rest of {` the creek because we do not know what kinds of development would occur. He spoke "' to grant sources from LAWCON and SNR, with possibility of funds from Metro Council I and Riley Watershed District. r' Welter asked about requirements of City in order to receive these funds. Jessen answered that the Citywould have to agree to buy S g y powerline, and not to discriminate against race, color, creed etc.. He added that some of the other parks owned by the City were funded this way, and the Council sets the policy for them, with limited requirements. ej Erickson asked whether he felt policing would be more difficult in an area like Purgatory Creek. Jensen responded affirmative. Hustad added that the resent p problem was quite serious � and special patrols were necessary already. i- Mr. James C. Bublitz, 10720 Co. Rd. 18, asked whether the landowners have anything to say about this matter. Jessen responded that the Purgatory Creek Study was pre- pared by Brauer & Assoc. Inc. and that the decision is now before the City ny to adopt, iiiodify, or whatever other action needs to be taken, and that the decision will be made by the Council upon recommendation of the PR & NR and-Planning Commissions. u Menalis asked whether the effects of development runoff on the raising and lowering i of the Creek had been studied. Putnam responded that no work had been done on this, but he felt that erosion control costs would be substantial. ?k Fosnocht questioned Putnam why there was no half way 'gib q Y y position where the landowners get what they want and the City gets the protected area. Putnam responded that there ' were all sorts of "in between" solutions if the people are interested. Jessen added that in order to apply for grants, you need to have the whole picture. i Planning Commissioner Lynch inquired about ownership of property on east side of the proposal. Jessen answered that there were about five owners fairly close, with several further down. Various options on cost vs. benefit was discussed in response to Sorensen's comment, that he had thought one of the charges given the Commissions was to evaluate private or public options,&what effects they would have on .funding sources. t� Helen fowler, 10315 Riverview Rd., expressed her concern against bringing the public into the area. She felt that private landowners would do a better job of protecting the Creek. She spoke to recent robberies she had experienced, and added that she did not think that a recreation area as proposed would bring in bird watcherS� but criminal elements. Minutes - Joint PR & NR Com. Page Four and Planning & Zoning Com. Approlted February 7, 1977 ' l 1 F« Y Anderson commented that he is one of the people who lives on a small lot, and is. not able to enjoy an area with wildlife everyday, He added that he felt that there were many people such as he who were just as con- cerned about the protection of a resource of this kind. Fowler said she felt that receiving federal funding only coat us more.-in taxes. She added that the people who are willing to pay for land such as this are willing to protect it. ;• rYy Anderson responded to example of a party getting out of hand, by speaking to one of the causesfor present problems on parkland. He said he had talked to persons in Bloomington, '.' and because they have tightened restrictions with the use of the mounted policemen, we are receiving the brunt of this with young people coming into Eden Prairie for their parties. He spoke to Richfield Nature Center and the fact that there is relatively no j vandalism that goes on and he feels that many young people have a lot of -respect for this area. 's 4: Busted commented that the Richfield Nature Center is a very controlled wildlife center f; and that is the kind of controls we would need to have. i Middleton commented that she had lived through all of this by living near Anderson Lake and there were many calls made to the police before it was park land, and that now,most of the-parties do not happen here. Iiustad pointed out that the areas were different, and that Anderson Lake did not have a public road all along the area, with the need there to regulate several accesses. He added that different controls are needed for a ravine than for around a lake. Putnam responded that today, without many neighbors around, there is a serious pro- blem of people coming into area, but that with more development you have more barking dogs and activity, which would not be a protection for wildlife. Bob Twiss, 10010 Bennett Pl., expressed his disapproval of the proposed plans. Jim Brown, 11551 Riverview Rd., spoke as a 40 yr. resident of the area, and expressed his opposition to using the land for the public. He spoke to large amounts of money spent by present landowners because of washouts etc.., and felt that people would not only go through access points but through fences or wherever they can get in, causing more washouts and problems,because the lrind is -very sandy and fragile. He added that if you let people in, the wildlife will leave, and felt that you must keep people out of the lower valley area. Garens commented that we all seem to be in agreement that this is a very fragile area, but we are not in agreement to the solution. He felt that if we reach some type of compromise of development on the bluffs, severe restrictions will have to be put on. ,r Anderson said that the wildlife is what we are concerned with, and suggested trailway up above. without going down into the valley,&with no homes overlooking it. Putnam spoke to the problem that Iiustad or homeowners would not be able to afford to set their homes back because the :reek is so broad. Ile said the proposed plan does go i" down from the slopes. He added that if you can't build there and the City cannot buy it, what do we do with it. Putnam continued that if you are trying to protect it from top of rim to other side, it is probably not fair to ask the homeowners Minutes - Joint PR & NR Com. Page Five and Planning & Zoning Com. Approved February 7, 1977 to pay for all of it. He said that somebody should buy it, it is the only fair way, and that it is going to be developed if it isn't used for a park. Hustad spoke to problems if City used transition zone, wiping out 55 acres of land. He said there would be problems of long curl- a-sacs with restrictions, and the impossi- bility'of running roads at a 10% slope, because houses have to be at the same level as the street. Planning Commissioner Sundstrom asked what the typical lot size along the Creek.was. Hustad replied two per acre and maybe three to four in open areas. Fowler expressed concern of overpopulation of Eden Prairie, commenting that there would probably be more children, causing increase in taxes for more schools and more services. Anderson commented that one of the thingshe was trying to get across was that if we allow developers to build right up to the edge of the valley, gullies will have to be filled in etc.. lie said ke are trying'to. usb the transition zone to bring develop- ment back away from the rim and. its purpose is to preserve this area, and he feels it is the only way. Fowler suggested that the Commissioners contact Tyr. Wilkie to show them his pictures of the wildlife in the area and said they would have a great insight into what that whole area is about. -A Menalis questioned the zoning for acre lots. Putnam responded there was Rl-22r(one-' half acre minimum)and what it is today, which is Rural,(five acres minimum). Sorensen added that there was a need for more residential zoning categories, and this is being considered in the update of the Comprehensive Guide Plan. III. ADJOURNNENT ' MOTION: Fosnocht moved to adjourn at 9:15 Pm., and-,suggested that -the .Planning .C6m:' l and PR and NR Commission include the issue on their Agendas and consider separately, advising the Council, giving people-preseat an opportunity for comments or reports. Sorensen seconded. Motion carried unanimously. Submitted by, Donna Stanley, Recording Secretary