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HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 12/15/1975 i 1975 DECEMBER"' 1 , 15 MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, December 1, 1975 7:30 PM, CITY BALL r COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, tA4}1-fgang-Pen:: el, Francis Helmer, Richard Anderson, William Garens, Doroth�Bem e, t, Paul Choiniere, Mary Upton, Jerry Kingrey, Brian Mikkelson, EJizabeth--Tracy, Steve Fifield, Ex-Officio 1 COMMISSION STAFF: Marty lessen, Director of Community Services Approx.Time to Begin Item 7:30 PM I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 17, 1975 MEETING 7:40 PIA IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS & COMMUNICATIONS A. Communication from Eden Prairie Tennis Association CB. Roferral from Council Directing the Commission to review Flunting in7 en Prairie an ©cammenc-fi a _roc ram. V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners 1. 2. B. Reports of Staff 8:00 PM 1. 1975-76 Winter Recreation Program 8:10 PM 2. Development Proposal a. Ma le Leaf Acres VI. OLD BUSINESS 8:20 PM A. Purgatory Creel; Study VII. _NF.W 13USZNESS rr 8:30 1'l�� 11.� Discussion of Co_m_missioners_Individua.l Priorities l� for Improvements . r 9:30 PIA V1II. T_*)TOiJRN'N11'N'i`, ' iapproved M I N U T E S PAIMS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MNDAY, DECE14BER 1, 1975 7:30 PM CITY HALL COMMISSION ME14BERS PRESENT: Richard Anderson, William Gareins, Wolfgang Penzel, Paul Choiniere, Jerry Kingrey, Brian Mikkelson, Steve Fifield' Ex-Officio COMMISSION MEI�MERS ABSENT: Francis Helmer, Mary Upton, Marvin Erickson, and Elizabeth Tracy OTHERS PRESENT: Tom Bartel, E.P. News, Jack Hacking and Keith Wall, E.P. Public Safety Dept., Rusty Irvine, Maple Leaf Acres The meeting was called to order at 7:40 PM. Anderson moved to recommend Garens to chair the meeting, as Erickson and Upton I were absent. Kingrey seconded. Hotion carried unanimously. II. APPROVAL Or AGENDA, Anderson requested adding "trapping ordinance" to IV.. B. Referral- from Cov aw1.l di.roctinE vie Commission to review Hunting .in Widen PrMJX�e and Recam. and-a P,r and addition of 1. State Meeting by 4n or^9_u under V. A. RepoxtR of • Camini,Hsioue�z�. -- C Kingrey moved to approve the Agenda as corrected. Penzel seconded. Motion carried unanimously. III. APPROVAL OI,' MIIIUTES OF ATOVEMfBER _1.7. IM5 MEETING Page tiro, para. 2; Delete "a.nd indication to participate in this action." Kingrey seconded, with the motion carrying,with Choiniere casting the dissenting, vote and 14ikkelson abstaining. Choiblere commented that he felt there was an incom- pleteness of Minutes because of no reference to estimated $20090(D for Mit.Lake PUD 4 IV. gETTTIONS,-RFQUESTS & C014101 CONS B. Referral from Council. Directing the Commission to review Iiun in,T 3n Elden Yrai.rio and Rir;corm- end a Pr Zga, and c4j-is er ti a trannin, Ordinances Jessen informed the Commission that the City Council had requested a re- port on hunting in the Couammity, licenses issued, and problems encountered from Public Safety Department, with referral by the Council of the matter to the Commission. He turned the floor over to Jack Hacking, Public Safety � Dept.. Hacking; reported 338 total permits received, 5 rejected, with the total r . amount of permits approved at 333. He explained that the reason the rejeo- tion number was so anall was that the majority of all permits are rejected before -the application is made out becauso the party will call first to Minutes - Parks, Rea. avid December 1, 1975 Natural Resources Com. (:approved Page Two H. Refer from-Council Pirecti.na the_Commission to Review Hunting.• . Trapping Ordinance Con td see if we will approve the area they want to hunt in. He added that the guide- linas they use are that the landowner must have a minimum of 40 acres, give written permission to the hunter, and the hunter must stay at least 500 feet from buildings or main roadways. Haekirg cited some of the problems they had run into such as: the Fdenwest offioe building was shot at, complaint from George Johnstone on Red Rock Lake of 47 ducks and geese shot, that had clipped wings, and incidents where car windows were shot at. He felt the problem was that the Ordinance is not strong enough to regulate the issuing of permits. Kingrey asked for Hacking's recommendation. Hacking responded that they were going to take a strong stand on it, because they do not want to see anyone injured. Be recommended closing all hunting in the City, or at least from Highway 5 to Co- Rd. 4, down to Co. Rd. 19 with special permits for the river bottom. Anderson asked where the present acceptable areas were. Hacking answered that the areas were Topview, south side of Valley View, Fdonvale, by City HP11., Hidden Ponds, and Prairie View. He added that mixing snowmobilers, hunters, and kids I' was not a good Idea, and someone was going to get hurt. C Choiniere inquired how persons forging names were prosecuted. Hacking responded that it depends on •tho landowner, whether he wishes to bring the hunter to court. He added that most of the forgeries are found on Sever Peterson's land. Anderson commented that there is a lot of open laud left, but, some areas should be restricted, and that it should refer to trapping of certain animals, the number of people around, and where it is located in the`City. Officer Wall added his comments that officers' overtime ran from 0400 to $500, and there were other extra expenses from the way the present Ordinance is wriiateu. He added that with hunters and kids sharing the same ground, landowners are not going to take the responsibility of that situation. There wore suggestions on how to change present method of issuing permits such ast hunter presenting; his license, receiving permit, and asking landowners to sign it, or making it tougher to receive a permit, such as'inereasing required distance from buildings and main roads, increasing acreage to minimum of 50 acres, and increasing license fee. MOTT02J Anderson moved to request Staff, along with Public Safety people, to draw up Ordinance on rav-1sions including trapping, specifying areas recommended for hunting and trapping, in order to be able to control this activity. Kingrey seconded. Garens uug+gested an amendment to the motion to send membors from the Commission to attend this meeting and add their input. Anderson accepted the amendment. C Page Three Minutes - Parke, Rec. and ,1 � December 1, 1975 Natural Resources Come Ua� B, R ferr 1 from Council Directin the Coam�i i n o R e H Tra in Ordina a Conti AMPaIDEA KTION Pu eo 1e, Anderson moved to request that the Staff, along withe on revisions,Safety people" and two members of this Commission, draw-up includ- ing trapping, and specifying areas recommended foxy abed a dttrappihe non in order to be able to control this activity. carried unanimously. pISCUSSION Choiniere volunteered to attend the meeting for input. Anderson commented that hunting and trapping should take place in some areas, and some should be restricted. He cited Purgatory Creek, which is a moving body of water, and people can go out in a canoe and trap beaver. 1 He felt wa have no means at the present time to protect the beaver without the Council coming up with an Ordinance. He added that we need a vehicle for the use of the Public Safety Dept. and PR and NR Con►. to control the opening and closing of areas for hunting or trapping. Choiniere commented that there has to be a philosophy developed by the City. Anderson added that the Ordinance is the philosophy of the City, because it states what we want to happen in the City. Cerens called the question. He requested that Jessen arrange a date for the meeting. A. Com=jeatio f om Eden P^air a Ten i As oci io Jessen indicated that the matter TennisAss ciationa later date. sh to come before the Commission and discuss MOTION Choiniere moved to receive and file the commnieation of November 15, 197 5, received from newly formed E.P. Tennis Association. Kingrey seconded. Motion carried unanimously. �i. R_r+,CO24iF�IT�A'PSOTIS AND RI!I'ORTS r A. Repor-tg of COMIli 44?oners 1. State btee inR - Anderson k Anderson informed the members of the State Commission meeting to take place in Ibehester, Minn., on Wed.,Deo. 31, at 10t00 AM through Friday. He added that the lead-off topic on Wed. would be on conservation or the f energy in public buildings, predictions of energy question future, and what is going to happen to recreation because of energy shortage. He added that the featured speaker on Thurs, at 10:00 would be Les Placklock. CGarens reminded Commission members of the Blacklock Appreciation dinner on Friday, Dec. 12, Page Four MirYutes - Parks, Rec. and k,Napproved December 1, 1975 Natural Resources Com. B, Roaorts of Staff 2 Re_Xe onment Pronos'Q . a. ��a Len_ Acroa Jessen said the proposal has not significantly changed from earlier proposal and that iinisneMiof October 17, 1975ciea of the Purgatory Creok Study, referring to Choiniere was concerned with the fast that Mr. Irvine, developer, had several times, and had said he was not notified of appeared before them meeting, and that nothing seems to be getting the Purgatory Creek Study that when Irvine first presented his accomplished. Jessen responded were proposal, we talked about some of the concerns that was subbmitted. with the Purgatory Creek Study, and a revised proposal Thev have talked on the phone many times and met the office, and possibilities of changing plans were discussed butt there were serious sever placement problems. Irvine explained the problems•hO had with meeting re es. said due ns of to City regarding Parks, Recreation, and Natural Resources. + an overnight on their part, they did have an area map which showed every- an being filled In. H® continued, that they spent 5 to 6 hours trying to pinpoint the channel and found there we 3reproblems it,it wouldt ru l naoutside at one point. He added that if they the flood plain land. Irvine said that he and his Attornev had studied tha Ordinance and interpreted it to mean that you cannot build anything within 501, and they have attempted to provide a corridor along Purgatory Creek. He said the Creek could be divided in 20' area pl y spacon e, he side, making it 601. Concerning the provision of active play sp said he had inet with people in the Lochanburn a�Tele havherhave strong isentaments desire for a park near them, and some eftaid he would like to see the City for developing this in park land. own and manage the whole area, because g his abut can1t afford tobdoo the land was to keep it open as long as po said this any longer. He referred to the sewer sieuiiihe,haddforseenethis problem. have Riven the City permission to lav the pip Ho said he has 070,000 in assessments on his land now. Mikkolson left at 8:50 PM. Irvine responded to a question from a previous meeting regarding approxi- mate percent•af flood plain land that would be used for lots, which was 1 . t on Irvinets suggestion on the trail system• Garens asked Jessen to ccmmenif Jessen said it would take on more in`1'OIngrta place,there ace, and a bike route e a ethat grocery store, which would be a gathering would take them there and back safely would be a good thing. C Minutes - Parks, Rec. and Page Five Natural Resources ,approved December 1, 1975 2. pevelonment Proposal a, Maple Leaf Acres (Cont1d) , Jessen said that passage o*r the Creek was not provided for, there 1 L9 minimum space from road to flood plain area, and the lots around the Creek are difficult. i Irvine commented that one of the other problems was financial. He said when you construct a road, put sewer pipe in, and only develop one side} cost becomes prohibitive unless you can put lots on both sides. ' t Kingrey asked whether they were aware of the Purgatory Creek Study when ,I the preliminary plat was put together. Irvine responded that he was under impression that they could come in and fill in part of the flood plain to make it a buildable area. He added than the sewer alignment �1 was partially done before Flood Plain Ordinance came in. j Kingroy felt that a lot of basic difficulties should have been resolved before it reached the Commission. Anderson felt that the Flood Plain Ordinance defines the limits of what can be allowed, and that it could be filled if the Commission gave its' approval. Ile added that there-is a difference of opinion In Staff and Irvinees request. i � Choiniare said that the flood plain should remain intact and be maintained within the guidelines established, or we,have nothing but problems during a wet year. This was his position to Ahr. Irvine, so he would know, how he stood on the matter. Penzel suggested Irvine work out these concerns in further action with the Staff, now that he had a feeling for what the Commission thinks. W)TI ON Anderson moved that the Commission reiect the Maple Leaf Acres plat as presented, based on the fact that the plan infringes on the flood plain, and that the loca.t .on of some of -the roads and bridges are over the flood plain area. Kingrey seconded, motion carried unanimously. DISGIJ;SIGN Iry-Ina naked u}ie-her the flood plain could be used as a back yard for pro- posed duplexos. There was discussion of various ways of accomplishing this. Jessen commented that an easement would be necessary. 1. 1975-76 Winter Recrention Prortrnm Jessen reported that the skiing and skating lessons program will be self- supporting, skating; rinks are provided without cost, and that the mini-rinks are going along vary wall. The possibility afhwing Prairie View Elementary open during daylight hours for use of tho skating, rink was discussed, and if Commission approved, they would F biro a rink attondent to supervise both inside and outside for weekends and r . Minutes - Parks, Rec. and Page Six Natural Resources 'iapproved December 1, 1975 1. 1975-76 Winter Recreation Prorram (ContoAl holidays,, in addition to the regular daylight hours. Choiniere requested a report on the mini-rinks. Jessen responded that the Scenic Heights area was meeting, tonight, Edenview had a site problem, no I1 contact with Cedar Forest, and Lochanburn was not prepared yet, but all of the others are prepared. There was discussion of the possibility of the City cleaning off more areas ( where there was natural ice. Jessen said from a practical standpoint, because I of limited equipment and men, we should limit ourselves to the number listed, and if one backs out,add another area. He added that he realized it didn't meet all of the needs, but we did have to realize the limitations. MOTION Choiniere moved to add to the neighborhood mini-rinks two areas„ Highview and Birch Island, which would serve Paradise Valley and Kurtz Lane. Motion died for lark of a second. Jessen commented that Paradise Valley will be served by rink on Rainbow Drive. I-QUON C Choiniero moved to add Highview area for neighborhood mini-rink, since it has been requested. Anderson seconded. Motion was defeated with a vote of 1-3, with 1 abstention. Choiniere -"yaY" Garens - "nay" Penzel - "abstain" Anderson - "nay" Kingiey - "nay" T�,$CUS•SIOU Garens felt that he was for the program, but if one of the areas does not come through, we should consider another area. He added that because of financial limitations, equipment and men, he is against the motion. Choiniere pointed out that the status of the mini-rink program has changed because bf the request by- Iii ,hview and the change in the serving of Paradise Valleyp and this was not in oar -taff report. Jo ssen rosponded to the motion. clarifying what the mini-rink plan was. He said there had to be a lease, agreement by residents to clean and supervise it, with the City flooding the rink once a week. He added that if they are talking about the City maintaining 2 to 3 times a week, they are talking about something else. FIe added that a lease had not yet been received from Paradise Valley area. Discussion continued regarding the rest of the program. Jessen explained that user fees pny for th.j skiing and skating program, and responded to the auestion of whether Eaenvale reaeiyed qgy of thia by stating that the City has a contract with Mir. Bettelson to 'provide cross country -akiing activity at a lower cost. ` C Jest3en co;-ii;lnued :ai�.h expinzation of Adult Skiing program, which was self-sus- Oustaining, and was subject to cancellation if the response was not adequate. Minutes - Parks, Rea. and Page Seven Natural Resources Com. ',' .approved December 1, 1975 1. M-5-76 Recreation Program (Cont?d) Anderson inquired whether the City could sponsor a Ski trip if the people so desired and expressed interest. Jessen replied affirmative. MOTION ION Kingrey moved that we approve the memo regarding Winter Outdoor Recreation Programs of Nov. 28, 1975, with the addition of two mini rinks; that the attention should not be limited to the rinks shown on the Memo; and that every effort should be made by the Staff to include additional rinks to the capacity of the maintenance crew. Fenzel seconded. DISCUSSION Choiniere inquired about snowmobile training courses. Jessen said they were included in an earlier publication as an on-going program. He added that there will be an additional newsletter advertising for a sign-up. Anderson commented that the City has a considerable amount of land and that he would like to see some of it designated for cross country skiing, because many people are unaware of where they can go. Jessen said if we designats an area, we have to make sure it is safe etc...; Fenzel suggested referring it to the Council to more fully investigate aspects of maintenance and liability. C- Bryant Lake was discussed as a. good pot ential area for cross country skiing. Kingrey proposed amendment to 170tion. AZSNDED MOTION KinArey moved that we approve the memo regarding Winter Outdoor Recreation Programs of Nov. 28, 1975, with the addition of two mini-rinks; that the attention should not be limited to the rinks shown on the memo; and every effort should be made by the Staff to include additional rinks to the capacity of the maintenance crew; and that non-motorized activity be added to the pro- gram by serving notice to the public that City owned land shall be open for non-motorized activity. Fenzel seconded, motion carried unanimously. There was discussion regarding the use of Anderson Lakes for this purpose. Penzel informed the members that it was restricted by former Council action. MT ON Choiniere moved to adjourn the meeting, in view of the fact that there were so few members present. Penzel seconded. The motion was defeated by a vote of 2-3. Choiniere "yay" Garens "nay" Kingrey "nay" Penzel nyay" Anderson"nay" V1. OLD FtIISIIJFSS A. Par ntor ,Cronk Stvdl Garens taolod tha Study until the next meeting. which is scheduled for Dec. 15, Minutes — Parks, Rec. and Page Eight Natural Resources Gom. hs1i`Lapproved December 1, 1975 VII. NEW BUSINESS A. piseission of Commissioners Individual Priorities for Recreatione+l 1mprovemlat-M. i Penzel suggested that each Commissioner write out his concerns and turn them over to Jessen, who would snake one copy of all the concerns. Garens ruled from the chair that this be done so that action could be taken at the next meeting. He added that the School Board is not certain when they will have their bond issue, but it looks like late Spring or early Summer. VIII. ADJOURNM4T. Choiniere moved to adjourn at 1005 PM. Anderson seconded, motion carried. Submitted by, Donna Stanley, Recording Secretary I AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, December 15, 1975 7:30 PM, CITYHALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, Wolfgang Penzel, Francis Helmer, Richard Anderson, William Games, Geneva Middleton, Paul Choiniere, Mary Upton, Jerry Kingrey, Brian Mikkelson, Elizabeth Tracy, Steve Fifield, Ex-Officio COMMISSION STAFF: Marty lessen, Director of Community Services Approx. Time to Begin Item 7:30 PM I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III_ MINUTES OF DECEMBER 1, 1975 MEETING 7:45 PM IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS & COMMUNICATIONS A. Letter from Margaret Rogers & William Kucher r B. Request for Longer Skating, Hours From Hockey Association of Eden Prairie V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners 1. 2. B. Report of Staff 8:00 PM 1. Recommendation for 1976 Winter-Sprina Recreation Activities 8:15 P14 2. Metropolitan Parks & Open S ace_S=Year Capital Improvement Program i VI. OLD BUSINESS 1 8:30 PM A. Purgatory Creek Open Space Corridor Study . r Parks, Recreation & Natural -2- Monday Dec. 15 , 1975 Resources Commission VII. NEW BUSINESS 9.00 PM A. T)E;C ssion of Commissioners Individual Priorities for Recreational Improvements 10:00 PM VIII. ADJOURNMENT j l V a .approved N T N U T B S PARKS, RECRWIPION P.ND NATURAL I SOURCES COMMI55I0N "d't 30 PId CITY HALL I4ONDAY, ])LO'aUNR 15, 1975 Coua aSIOF I4I24BFR.4 piffSENTt Chad.x.mau Marvin Erickson, Paul. nl ingress Mary Upton, Richard Anderson, Jcrry Wolfgang Fenzel. Geneva. Middleton, and Brien I%.fldcelson COIKt�iSSSI0Y4 IYT1QFs>;aRS N3`�I :Ta Francis Helmer, William Garens, Elizabeth Tracy, and Steve Fi£ield, Bx-0£ficio STAFF r11,-,I 1113 pR.ESLI,T: Mart�T Jensen, Director of Community Services; Roger Ullstad. City Manager Sandy IJcrts, Recreation Supervisor The meetinn was called to order by Chairman Ericksom at 705 PM. Jessen informed Coi=ihsion menbera that ap pointed had beon received notifying them. that Genova 1_1,ddle:.ton was tho newly ber to the �pd from lderner Jesscn recluc;stnd the addition of IV. C, Lat�r,r Race• Ld_ 5chul,ze+. penzol novel to approve Agenda, Anderson seconded, motion carried. TII. A�PROVI�T�OT�IS�CY�'J'I'�?S OIL' D]�CY3'II3T.�2. 'la 5 - pa �, 01,1� p,1rr� �r> Add "Choi!dero commented that ho felt there ims an incomople an e mess of Minutes,;ae,c:,u;{c� i;her iands� for erenco to the Mitchell Lake PUD.�ted �v`20 ►.,000 additional .park site on the Pago F i VO, pnra. 6, Add "This wan his position to Mr. Irvine, sso he would know how he stood on the ma.t•ter.ti Page Siz:, pares. ^, Add �'Gnd this was not iu our Staff report." Pn�e Six, para. 9, ltisl, line, Delete llydeavalet�, Add '1Mr. Bertelsont1 after u"sithtt; Arad "cro,aa country' Okiiiif;u af'tor provido . ICingr ey moved to accopt Yinutes of DecQaber 1, 1975 Fleeting as amended. Choiniere seconded, notion carrl-ed unik.ously Minutes - Parks, Roc. and Page Two Natural Resources NSapproved December 15, 1975 C IV. MTTTIOTIS� REQUESTS L? CO1viICTI0rr3 .A. LAtt r from Mar_ of Roa_ers &_William Kucher Jessen said lie was brinzing, this matter to the attention of the Commission in conjunction with the Purgatory Creek Study. 1=10N Choiniore moved to investigate the purchase of this land and to request a report at first meeting in January, as to how much money is involved, and other details. King ey seconded, motion carried unanimously. DISC'IT;s'ON Pcnzol requested that land in question be pointed out on the map. Jessen rosponded and com7Lmented that it was west of Eden Farins, and that there were three basic areas; along 'the creek, the virgin hardwood forest, and the re- maining acreage that would be appropriate for general playground etc.. Panzol inquired as to the distance to Nottirwham Forest of this play space. Jessen said it was slightly more than 1/2 mile -to that neighborhood facility. B. Luc.r;.; for_LonUcr_ S"ka1_;_ing„Iin-tirs from the Hockeiy Annociotion of E.P. Jessen turned the floor over to Sandy Worts,, Recreation Supervisor. Werts said that she 1-Lad talked with John.' Cvetnic, who informed her that the program had groom to over 200 kids, with up to 14 teams, and that when he vas prepay- inp tho schedule he found he would need extra time -to meet the need for prac- tices and games. IIe requested an extra J hour past the regular closing; time. NOTIOIT Choiniere moved to approve the request of the Hockey Association of E.P. to use skating facilities part 9:00 111, as directed by Werts in her Memo of December 12, 1975. Penzel seconded, motion carried unanimously. DISOUSSTON Kinryroy was concornod that this was only tho first strap and will not be the lazt., but that more time will be required, and wondered if we would anticipate this. Jensen responded thnt they hnvo run off figures for participation, and he offerod to find the firurc:j .from indoor facility study on projection and dentand. Anderson asked whnt age Troup was involved in the ottention of the time limit. Warto rerpond.ed that it would be the 13-14 year old group.(Bantams) lbe high school and Prairie View rinks were discussed as possible hockey rink;:: for this program, but did not have warming houses. I Minutes - Park--, Roe. and Page Three Natural Resources ZZapproved December 15, 1975 C. Letter from Werner WL„Schulzg Choiniere moved to receive and file communication of December 10, 1975, Anderson noconded, motion carried. V. R7001-rl n1DA T CONS AND REPORTS A. Ronort.s of CosnmisLjpxtnr,. Nolte B. }3 ; of Stsff 1. Rr�co;nmendr►tion_for 97.) Tf i ntor.-Sur.inFr Recreation Activities llerts reported that she and Brian Wilhelm are beginning; to work on what will be offared and that some of the initial contacts have been made. The:rn was diseusaion about come of the problems that occur in working with Community Education, such as coordinating use of buildingFs, but Jessen felt th t the cooperation betwoen the City and Community Education was good. and t1rit most of the problems could be worked out. Ile added, that :L-i the su;;t;_Isted chati:�Ia of Basketball to Wednesday evening's, they had decided to stick to Monday and would reschedule any games to a ( different time or place if there was a conflict. 1.10TION Anderson moved to approve Staff Memo of December 12, 1975, with the amendment to delete the moving of Basketball to Wed. evenings. King;rey seconded, motion carried unanimously. 2. Mot-o Pe,.rkr+ 8c Oaen S tee 5•-Ye Capite►1 Pro�rnm Jessen explained that the City adopted concepts for development of -the three regional park facilities within the community; Anderson Lakes, Bryant.Lako, and False Riloy. He said those conceptual master plans have boon proson•tod to the Metropolitan Council so they could be included in the rogional recreational open space system plan. Fie continued that the sins-tor plano :submitted by all the implementing agencies have been re- viewed by the Council Staff and tho Paris and Open Space Commission, and •thr-,y hr.ve pvt together a draft Five Year Capital Improvement Program for the implcmc.titz•tion of the system plan. He said they have also acknow- ledged the narc:alistic attempt to secure approval from the State Legis- latttro for the c ati.re five Year CIP, therefore, the Parks & Open Space Cam. has ditscussed rt "stripped down model" for presentation at the 1976 Legislutivo Session. Anderson sugg;estod discusning `,he Purgatory Creels Study, then coming bacl: • to tlja yr. ClLIJ, since `I'rr,:.]. Corridor acquisition was an additional f element of Lhi.:. 'zog-ram. Jessen suggested separating the CIP from the Purgatory Creek Study. Lrickson ruled to move on to the Purgatory Creak Study, than eomo back to the CIP. Minutes - Parks, Rec., and Page Fonr Natural. Resources ZZapproved December 15, 1975 VI. OLD 33UM SS A. PrrrfT .t�� Creek Oren S�acg Corridor Study Jessen briefly outlinod discussion on the Study and presentation by Mr. Brauer, and suggested adopting the Study, with acquioiti.on of laid, managom©nt of con- oervs.nc;- and trahsit16n -areas ' .and`recognizing- potential,'ube' for 'W668• 66s, without�a specific plan of action for the land.. Choiniorc was conceri-iod whether the final recoirmendation was for`tbe use of some of the land for a golf course. Jessen exT.1ained that whoa the joint Golf Course Study was done in 1972, that area ryas recorirended as a good potential site for a golf course, but no final action was adopted on implementing thia by the Cit,Y. lie continued � that his rccommendatiori was that the City adopt: the plan and encourage the Golf Study of 1972, and Mr. Dreher, at his presentation, recommending adopt ir_g the Study iri hoot the golf course. Jossen said he felt the objectives wore well i:o-tuic:{ed and sound. and that we should rove ahead on the Purgatory Creek Study, a.oaving the decision of a golf course or nature center until latter. Anderson connmentcd that lie considered it a guide to try to accomplish the Ct hole prol-Mt s and it rives us something to aim for by setting up some goals. YO 10,111: Andorson mDvod to apps-ove the Purgatory Creek Open Space Corridor Study, and send it or. to tho Council with our approval. Upton seconded, motion curried unallimoualy. Choiniere rcquosted adding I'with the withdrawal of the Golf Course Study" to the Motion. Joisen responded that the Purgatory Creek Study and the Golf Course Study are separate, and that the adoption of any of the recommenda- tions of the Golf Course Study, is not the consideration at this point. 1'aiderson did not feel the amendment was necessarya V. B. 2. ?de .ro}loi .t*�n Pn�l} n & Open Space -lonr C111 (Cont,d)- Jessen paid that after talking with persons from Metro Council and State Planning Agencies, he found the reaction %%% y favorable toward potential for Purgatory Crook Study. bocause the Paine-1,11le Creek has more severe constri.ctiona thnn the Purgatory Creole. lie said thoy have urged us to submit .tho Purr titory Crook Study, which he believes in the most compre- honolvo Study arotusd, as other areas are only beginning. He added that the 2xigga5tod recos,r7,ndation was that the City express its' support for the 5-Year CIP, and :,ubmi.t, the Purgatory Crook Corridor Study. Azzderuoii was concerned whethor the Council would have a problem with reconnaonding and pawing on to the Yetro Council after Cowmission approval. Minutes a Parks, Rec. and Page Five Natural Resources XLiapproved December 15, 1975 CHot ri000 lit nn Pax•kg4 ,.5-Iaa�' CIP (Copt°d) Fenzel said the Council would probably not act without knowing the amount of City involvement. He added that a clear and concise package of the various aspects of acquisition and development costs and who would pay for it, would lend greater credence 'to the roeoi;nendation. Jessen said there was no eommittment by the City at this point, and the pro- gram was @;oarad toward 100% acquisition of Lake Riley, 'to be financed by Metro finance source, and 'hailj; were also geared toward 100% financing. He added that the Watershed District had indicated some interest and could provide some of the financing- Choiniere a.L-.ea why ttaCity 'should fret. involved at all, if it was not involved financially. Jessen responded that they would not want to force it on a local unit. Fenzel added that ownership or title will revert to the Community and iniative is required by the Coranunity. Josaen felt wo should have some position on the CIP before the scheduled public hearing on January 21.3, 1976, and also submit the Purgatory Creek Study. Mikkolson left the meeting at 8050 PM- 1`OTIOII Upton moved to table iorm.e iin�t�il nett meeting, until we have all the financial figures, and then to taho aosne aetio.a on this. Fenzel seconded. Motion was withdrawn by Upton, and second was withdrawn by Fenzel. Upton questioned the unresolved question of whether Bryant Lake or Riley Lake should be included. Jenson responded that the policy.plan was the first plan, which was to identify sites and was very general as to whether it would be either of the 1akos, but feels that the present position was to include both of therm. Ho added that we do have an offer on theyRiley e Parcels, that is binding and valid as long as we fulfill the calla, ligaParce Choiniaro was concerned that the obligation could mature very early, forcing us to fulfill that obligation before we'wer© reRdy. Josaen said there was a Law forbidding this typo of action. Josscin responded to quoc;tions regarding present status of Bryant: Lake and K whether it vao paid foe. Ile said the City was way ahead on funding at Bryant La1;a, and that we have the money to buy another 26 acres from Horak and a two year option from Bronn, which would tie in with 1976 LAWCON funding. Choi.niarn innuired whothur the City was able to recover some of the seed money. i .7c:a.son snid thn•t �.�50,000 of the "a20,000 was recovered, and that was because the application had been •^ubmIttod before LAWCON was in effect. C Anriereon asked vhothcr it would be correct to ray if we did not have this seed mAnoy, we would not be eligible for LAVICON funding, and that it was a program of s�cirihursosnc.::tree Jennen esnswered affirmative. Minutes - Parks, Rec. and Page Six Natural Resources Niapproved December 15, 1975 2. Metropolitan P�rics.ul, -Ye r CIP (Cont'). 140TION Upton raved to recommend to the Council support for the 3 Park Prof Tam, as present(;d in Parks and Open Space Commission Five Year Capital Improvement Program outlined in Memo of December 12, 1975, and request cost figures on Purgatory Creek Study Program to be prepared for next meeting. Anderson seconded, motion carried unanirilously. VIZ. IQP"k-T BUSINESS A. Di_oav i,sion of Cormnissionern Individual Priorit es for Recreationmj :L�rnrrcmtjri�cus Upton expressed her opinion that she felt it should be four separate parts, because it gives ,people a choice, and was very optimistic that at least two would pass. Anderson was concerned with putting too many issuers in one, and felt they were all pretty well tiod in Question one of the Bond Issue. He added that he felt the Commission should be united on what they want, and then decide how to present it. Middleton presented her priorities, which read like Question one of the Bond Issue, presented as one issue. Most of the Commissioners felt that the swimming pool and hockey arena were issues that the people felt were forced on them, and that most of the parts of Quosion one were worthwhile. The future of EPAA ballfields was discussed, with Kingrey commenting that they would lake to see Round Lake developed for a youth sports complex. Edenvale South acquired for future development of fields, with continued play at Flying Cloud ballfieldse and Forest Hills and Prairie View also developed as youth short complexe Erickson was concerned about the Flying Cloud ballfields and the 90 day notice situation, and felt tbero was a strong need to set up a permanent play space. Jossen commonted that Edenvale South will be dedicated to the City through the Lako I'den Heighto dovelopmont proposal, with an area of about 13 acres. Iie added that there will be acreage available eventually by the Neil Lake area. Upton asked what tho Council's feelings were on the Bond Issue. Penzel ras•- pondcd that ran alternative would be to ask for a joint meeting and felt a better co=unication would be established. Dianatisfaction with the markings for bike paths on Co. rZ. 4 was expressed and alternatives for the present situation were discussed. • r Minutes, - Parks, Rea. and Page Seven Natural Resources Mapproved December 15, 1975 D 2cusr�icn, of CommYssioners Recreational jMroyements (conts� Anderson commented that in discussions with persons on the State level, it is very obvious that drivers are not educated in bicyclist's rights and this seems to be -true a31 over. lie added that the County has put in the type of markings referred to in rural areas and they are effective, but Co. Rd. /,. is more residential and it is not working. Middleton added, in reference to bicyclist's rights, that the diagonal uhito lines used on Shady Oak Rd. in Hoplcins were very effective because drivers were educated to this lane, and since more traffic from.the Co. Rd. 18 detour uses this road and are not oducated to the btike lane, many will pass on the right side. She suggostod a temporary measure on Co. R. /l+ to educate, people. The use of curb typo separations were discussed, but it was pointed out by Ullstad -that curbs are fine at 30 I4II, but when that speed is exceeded, statistics show that tho curb causes a problem. Jessen said it was a question of division of trails, and they feel separate paths, I S feat wide, according to 1iAU standards, would be a good alternative. 1�TTOI� Choini6re shoved that we contact Tom Tiesen, Chairman of Hennepin County Commissioners, to request elrlanation of bikeway system through Eden Prairie, and to extend our feeli)1gs of conce, n for public safety concerning this system. Penzel seconded, motion carried unanimously. Choiniore gave his opinion on what he would support for the Bond Issue, which wags neighborhood facilities-up to the point of acquiring mare open space, and if we would break it into two areas-neighborhood facilities and bike;,ray/jAkeway trails. lie added that he would hesitate on acquiring rsore open space because he feels peoplo no longer want any more open space, but want to develop what we have so they can use it. Upton ctikd she would consider comprdsnl it- sin by dropping, DryaYit Lake and ll Starrin , Lake from Community Park Development, and Riley Lake oParluo oddo©loft ant Lalce Prjrlc. from Acquiaitiou. but felt it was necessary to eiupp l� of Bound Lake, because we are tanking about ballfiolds. Choiniere :stated he -=uld not compromise, because he felt people were being "snowed" under vith the ,:eceut;ly increayacl tax rate. Jossen added, as a point of information, that we will have a tough time with the Mitcholl. Lulu, Pork :site becau,^a there has been no commit•tment from anyone at Mitchell Lake,. and c oF(I :aoney is needed hero. Anderson commented that seed money has served the City vary well, and that he was in favor of rosorvinn ;some se-ccl mono- to have on hand to wort: with. Choini oa.-a said h() I1!11 asupported the last bond is-me, with all of the provisions for scscd n:an��y, rind ho :Cooks tlsat -he people who provided that seed money have been denied things, they can use now. Ponzol asked whether 'they were not precluding gnat the people waant by using this m�tnoa. . I } Rec. and Page Eight Mi.autes Parks, ;!approved December 15, 1975 Natural Resources N Kingrey moved to request a meeting wi.ththe.City Council., athom ourt ime we would 1TOTIO feeling that discuss their interest in a Park Bond Issue and suggest a Perk Bond Issue is called for and also -that neighborhood type informational contributions shoalcl be received prior to any reforondvn. Choiniere seconded, motion carried unanimously. D1:SCLiSSION Cl.oinioro felt the meetings should be hold at City lisps rather than in neiJhebo©=� hood:., because all of 'the people wouldn9t be included 3n the invitations. L said they would be specifically announced as public meetings of the Commisss3ion, with invitations axteadod in writing. Anderson and 1�ra cl.son fol*t it was unnecessary to include neighborhood meetings in the I5otion, and should cone later. Kingroy did not want to circumvent the Council in any tray, and he felt the points I mado in the 2•%otion were valid and mould 'like to stay with it. VIII. lsDT0Y1Tt'I r!IJ'�' Choin3.e=e moved to adjourn at lOt15 P14. Upton seconded, motion .carried. Submi-tted by, C Doyum Stnna.ey Rncordinp Sucretary