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HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 10/02/1995 . .. ..�. ,.•.L>i .,.....,-..:...�.,u,.�. ...i u��., .. r� _J�.f;., �._.,.c�..i ,..'.1:..�_`,'i_.#_i�;a...�..:t'? ,.......�,�.�,...�'.� - ,., 11�r!° _..eT.:Fps✓/'"£75i.b'[!'i?'S'i:n..:S1;91 a�^JnL.M+i. _�' ': t ,a t 1995 OCTOBER 2 MINUTES CITY OF EDE1�T PRAIDIE i } 1 y . AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, OCTOBER 2, 1995 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Claire Hilgeman, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL I II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 18, 1995 fir•. IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. None V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Dell Road and Highway 5 Commercial Center VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Fees Policy lcon't from Sewember 18 19951 VII. NEW BUSINESS A. None j IX. ADJOURNMENT PmrkAg/Boh 1 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, OCTOBER 2, 1995 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Claire Hilgeman, Chair; Richard Brown, Bruce Bowman, Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube- Harderwijk COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation & Facilities; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order at 7:00 P.M. by Chair, Claire Hilgeman. All members were present. Ic H. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Brown moved to approve the agenda as published. Koenig seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 18, 1995 MOTION: I-Iilgeman moved to approve the Minutes of September 18, 1995 as amended: page 11, second paragraph should read... Bowman commented that the way he looks at this is he looks at the dollars subsidized per individual rather than the total dollars as a way of evaluating value for the general taxpayer. Page 5, under the first motion, third sentence, change... this lot to... this/his lot. Bowman seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. None, V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Dell Road and Highway 5 Commercial Cgnter approved Minutes Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Page - 2 October 2, 1995 Staff referred the Commission to memos dated September 27, 1995, and September 22, 1995, from Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; staff reports dated September 22, 1995, September 8, 1995, August 11, 1995 and July 7, 1995, from Michael D. Franzen, City Planner. Dick Putnam, Tandem Corporation, reviewed his development proposal with the Parks Commission using visual aids. He noted that the proposed site is 4.5 acres Neighborhood Commercial originally approved in 1989. It is the last of about 60 acres of land including Summer Oaks, Jamestown Villas, and the Cascades Townhomes, to be developed. The site is broken w into two separate pieces of the 4.5 acres. The eastern parcel is a little bit higher than the area along Highway 5.The eastern building is about 10,000 square feet for a proposed day care center by Kindercare. It houses roughly 180 children. The western portion of the site depicts about 17,500 square feet of commercial space, which is proposed as a restaurant and multiple tenant commercial. Regarding the trail connections, the site works well with the natural features. In this case, it's the major tree mass and the predominant oak trees and some ash on site. On this site, the major trails are along Dell Road which run north and south, and is in place today. Regarding the secondary trail and sidewalk system, there is a sidewalk on the outside of Cascade that's in place today. There is an eight foot bituminous bike trail on the north side of Cascade Drive. What's being proposed in this plan is the continuation of the eight foot trail up to the first entrance, and then winding it up through some of the wooded area. Using photographs, he showed where they are proposing a turn lane from the existing wall to provide a free turn to the right. To put the trail connection to it in the normal case, it would effect cutting into the slope and cutting back the trees. The solution proposed is to take the trail at the base of the wall and bring it up the hill and winding it through the trees. Grade wise it works better, and it also gives a little different feel than what's there. Within the site, the connections to the trail along Cascade and Dell Road are proposed with a connection from Dell Road throughout the parking i approved Minutes Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Page - 3 October 2, 1995 lot, and into the neighborhood center. There is also a connection from the day care center through the woods that connects through the site. The plans are fairly well tied in with the bike and trail system. There is an L-shaped area on the site which will be left with the existing trees and the brush. The natural undergrowth will be left and will provide a buffer. The restaurant is 5000 square feet, and they are looking to reduce the overall size of the restaurant because of fears from the residents that it's a regional size restaurant. They would like to lower it to about 3500 square feet. In the process of doing that, it allows them a little flexibility of some of the things talked about in the report regarding some of the trees. By reducing the size of the restaurant, it allows them to work the outdoor deck dining on the back side of the restaurant a little easier. It will allow them to shorten it up and keep another fairly large oak tree and three additional trees. By reducing the amount of parking, it allows them to swing the road in a different way. They can also do this on the �. southern portion of the site as well. Fox reviewed the staff report with the Parks Commission. He noted that the original request was to change the zoning from Rural to Neighborhood Commercial. Regarding tree loss, there are a number of calculations that will work because of the amount of changes and configurations that the site went through. Because of that, the final calculation came out at 38%. The majority of the trees on the site are oaks. There is also a number of other significant trees which include a number of ironwood. Normally under the Tree Preservation, they don't show up because they are under 12 inches, but there are several on the site over 12 inches. Some are on the corner of Dell Road and Cascade, and by putting the sidewalk there, Staff is certain the ironwoods would be saved. Staff feels this proposal is certainly within the parameters of the initial Jamestown PUD which involved 60 acres in total. Staff estimated the tree loss at 40%. In terms of the wetland impact storm water treatment, the recommendation of the Staff was to incorporate this as part of a series of ponds that were constructed as natural wetland to the south. The recommendation of the ( engineering staff was to have a cash distribution to the storm utility fund _ C approved Minutes Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Page - 4 October 2, 1995 which pays for maintenance of the NURP pond, and also the construction of a general NURP pond if needed in the future. The only sidewalk that would be City controlled would be the sidewalk along the north side of Cascade Drive. It would connect two existing trails on Dell Road from an existing trail on Cascade Drive. Brown expressed concern about the trees behind where the restaurant and stores will be serviced. Putnam showed a sketch of the building and noted that all the trash enclosures are interior to the building. The restaurant would be serviced from the front or the side. Koenig asked if the restaurant is going to be smaller, is that going to effect the drainage pattern mentioned in the report. Fox replied that it's critical where that building is placed because of the slope. There is about , a six foot elevation change from the upper parking lot to the back of the building. It's going to be critical to get the drainage out of there. It's also critical where the building actually sits because there are some trees with rather large diameters, and horizontal branches of 15 to 20 feet off the ground. Bowman expressed concern about the line of sight where the trail crosses the access road. He was concerned about a stop sign in front of that trail. Putnam commented that he feels it's a safe view and showed photographs of the view. He noted that there will be a stop sign for the cars. Hilgeman commented that there's also a need for a stop sign where the bikers will be coming down the trail. Fox noted that it would be striped as a crosswalk so cars leaving the site would recognize it as a pedestrian crosswalk. It is going to have to be located on the site so they have to make sure they have adequate site lines. Staff's concern is about the "S" curve nature of it. Rollerbladers are going to have a hard time, so they have to make that a straight connection with adequate site distance. Brown noted that the bikers have the most problems on trails when they come in contact with the street. The intersections are where most of the bicycle accidents are. He agrees with Bowman that they must have clear visibility. . :_.:.. ,. ....... ., ... ,... .. ,. ,.,.::.; '.c:-..•_.._. . 1. _ .. .`.. .,. ... _.. i ,:, o.:..I! _. _....,...,. }.n......l-Ar v....h..C.rnt..aa 4 ? approved Minutes C' Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Page - 5 October 2, 1995 Koenig was concerned about the missing ironwoods on the Tree Inventory. She was also concerned about the fencing around the site. Hilgeman asked if the treatment ponds are currently on the Kindercare site. Fox replied that the treatment pond is the large natural pond south of the Cascade Townhomes. There is a large wetland area and that's included in the calculations for this site. Hilgeman asked if the restaurant was kept at 900 square feet, would they save a significant number of trees. Fox replied maybe two or three trees would be saved, or possibly four or five. Hilgeman expressed concern about the tree replacement of conifers as opposed to deciduous trees. Fox replied that the screening landscaping ordinance requires certain types of buildings screen their parking area,and this is one of those situations where it must be screened all year round. The majority right now is proposed to be shade trees with the coniferous material at the highest areas. Kracum commended Mr. Putnam on his willingness to cooperate with Staff. He is the owner of this property and is developing it in the manner in which it was intended all along. He is impressed with his effort to preserve the trees and finds it very refreshing. This is commercial property and it borders Highway 5 and Dell Road, which are busy roads. MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to approve the recommendation of the staff on September 27, 1995, and that the Commission would like to see all the natural areas fenced off before grading begins; and that this recommendation is based on careful consideration of line of sight between bikers and riders at the intersections, at the side entrance, and exits within the trail system. Koenig seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. VI. OLD BUSINESS i A. Fees Policy (con't from September 18. 1995) Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 26, 1995, from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities. Lambert, Helling and Frey continued their philosophical discussion with (, the Commission on fee policies. t ri r. r .approved Minutes Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Page - 6 October 2, 1995 Lambert commented that the Commission has to look at more than just the fees because when you're looking at the fees, it's important to know how many sessions you get for that fee, and how long the session is. Staff conducted a brief survey of what other cities were charging for their playground programs because that seems to be an issue. They also included a survey that was done on preschool programs, and Edina did that survey. Hilgeman commented that this all comes down to the matter of what each city is trying to attain. Either they are trying to attain that they make a commitment to subsidize these programs to a certain extent so they can provide for their citizens, or they are trying to reduce costs and not subsidize to such a great extent. She is not sure what commitment Eden Prairie has made. Lambert noted that he personally thinks they should make a commitment to stay in line with other communities. The Commission has to decide on what they want to do and give a general direction on this. He feels that special interest programs for kids should not be subsidized. Hilgeman commented that if the City is making $6,000 for the golf program, she doesn't feel right charging those people an additional $10.00 to subsidize other programs. Hilgeman asked if staff feels the 20% for indirect costs is reasonable, or do they think it's too high. Helling replied that it varies by program areas. For some programs it may be fairly accurate saying 20%, and some should probably be less, and some should probably be more. The first time they do a program it takes a lot more of staff time involved to get it going. If you're talking full time staff hours to be considered into a program, then where do you draw the line? Hilgeman suggested classifying it not according to the activity, but to the type of use subsidized such as, adaptive recreation programs, senior programs, preschool programs and youth athletic programs. It would be trying to see which programs remain and which programs die. Bowman commented that he's not sure they have to have anything absolute yet. He thinks they need guidelines. r r . / .approved Minutes Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Page - 7 October 2, 1995 Hilgeman noted that she likes the idea of having exact guidelines based on the general categories. It says based on the type of user rather than the type of program. Lambert commented that if the Commission all agree to do the categories by user, they will break it down into a couple of groups. Staff will come back with some categories and some percentages on what the maximum subsidy would be as guidelines. Staff can also give examples of the programs that have the biggest impact. Hilgeman commented that they need to make giving donations for the Staring Lake Concerts or the 4th of July celebration a little more feasible for the residents. She suggested doing this by donation boxes or newspapers. Lambert commented that by enforcing donations, they will only get nickels and dimes. However, staff can make an effort to have those programs sponsored by companies, and it reduces the cost or the subsidy significantly. Hilgeman noted that she would like to give the citizens a chance to supportt the functions they attend. Bowman commented that he would like to see some guidelines for a minimum number of participants in a program because he sees memoir writing for adults with only six participants. He feels the time it takes for some of these very small programs may not be worth it. Lyndell Frey replied that some programs limit it to only six participants for different reasons. Sometimes they can't have more than six participants. Kube-Harderwijk commented that she feels it is very valid to take into account what other communities are subsidizing. I MOTION: Hilgeman moved to direct staff to establish categories with some recommended subsidy percentages. Koenig seconded the motion and ; it passed unanimously. Staff will bring this back to the Commission with what they think the impact will be on fees for those programs within those categories, and they will make sure they keep including the 20% indirect cost amount. w 41 ;approved Minutes �! Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Page - 8 October 2, 1995 VII. NEW BUSINESS A. None. VHL ADT URNMENT MOTION: Hilgeman moved to adjourn. Jacobson seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. The meeting was adjourned at 8:45 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Elinda Barley • Recording Secretary I 8