HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 09/18/1995 1995
SEPTEMBER 18
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MINUTES
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
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AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1995 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Claire Hilgeman, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown,
Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne
Kube-Harderwijk
STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer, Brian Mustanski
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and
Facilities; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural
Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation
Services
I. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - AUGUST 7 1995
IV. PETPI'IONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. Request from the Trails Association
B. Petition from Robert A. Skanse
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. None
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Purgatory Creek Recreation Area Revised Entry Plan
B. Eden Prairie Transit Hub - Soil Correction Plan
VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. Miller Park Plan for Skating Rinks and Warming House
B. Fee Polices
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VIH. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. RRnorts of Director of Parkc. Recreation and Facilities
1, Discussion Re SNA Designation for Prairie Bluff C onservation Area
and Riley Creek Woods Conservation Area
2. Article on Prooertv-Righis LMU
B. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
1. Letter to Ken Bombe n President Eden Prairie Soc r ssociation
IX. ADJOURNMENT
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES
MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1995 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Claire Hilgeman, Chair; Richard Brown,
Bruce Bowman, Don Jacobson, Vicki
Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube-
Harderwijk
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks,
Recreation & Facilities; Stuart A. Fox,
Manager of Parks and Natural Resources;
Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation
Services
STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer
I. ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 P.M. by Chair, Claire Hilgeman. All
members were present. David Kracum left at 9:45 P.M.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Hilgeman moved to approve the agenda as amended: under IV, add:
Human Rights Commission Presentation. Koenig seconded the motion and it
passed unanimously.
Brown was concerned about the accumulation of trash piling up by the walkway
at the school. Lambert indicated that they will try a trash barrel at that location.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - AUGUST 7. 1995
MOTION: Hilgeman moved to approve the Minutes of August 7, 1995 as
amended: page 3, fourth paragraph, second sentence should read... The 28 acres
are proposed to be dedicated to the City in lieu of cash park fees. Page 4, sixth
paragraph, second sentence should read... The project was looked at by the
Planning Commission and was continued because of the burial mounds in terms
of the location. Brown seconded the motion and it passed 5-0-2 with abstentions
by Bowman and Kube-Harderwijk.
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. Humans Rights Commission Presentation
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September 18, 1995
Julie Winegar, representative from the Human Rights Commission, gave
a brief presentation to the Commission. She noted that the Human Rights
Commission has decided to offer diversity training to all the Commission
members of the various Commissions at Eden Prairie as part of their work
plan. The staff members have already been trained. They are offering
two sessions on two consecutive Wednesday nights, October 25th and
November 8th, from 6:30 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
The head of the Human Resources Department at the University of
Minnesota will be speaking the first night on topics such as change in
demographics, social perception, and the use and abuse of power.
The second evening will be more of an interactive session where they will
all be involved in their own personal awareness and ideas such as
privilege, and what they can all do as a diversity changing agency.
Starting next Spring when the new Commissioners are brought on board,
this will be part of their orientation. There is a registration form in the
packets asking for people to sign up on a volunteer basis. All
Commission members are urged to attend.
Hilgeman was concerned about the status of the Tree Ordinance
Committee report. Fox indicated that it will be going to the Committee
first, hopefully within the next two weeks. Then it will go to all the
Commissions and City Council. The Committee will meet one more time.
He has contacted two people that want to see one more thing prior to it
going back to the Commissions.
B. Request from the Trails Association
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 7, 1995, from
Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation & Facilities.
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Lambert noted that representatives from the Trails Association contacted
City Staff for the first time about two or three years ago. They asked
about whether or not the City will accept the trail. Staff found that in the
initial review the trail was required as part of a dedication for the plat.
Staff said that they would probably accept ownership of the trail if they
pay for the upgrade to City standards. Members of the Association didn't
think they owned the trail. They thought it was owned by the Preserve.
They did more research and found out the Preserve did not own the trail.
It was supposed to be dedicated to the City as part of the condition of the
C: approval, but the developer never got around to it.
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Staff received calls from a number of people wanting to save the trail.
Representatives from The Trails Association came before the Council.
The Council wants to keep the trail and asked Staff to get a cost on what
it would cost to upgrade it. The Trails Association say that they don't
want the liability, and see no requirement to keep it. They will give it to
the City if there is no cost to them. If there is cost to them, then they
will plow it up and throw grass seed in there to end their liability.
The City can probably replace the trail sections that have to be replaced,
and upgrade it to City standards to a six foot wide trail. Staff can do that
for about $5,000, and contracted out, it would cost about $9,000.
Staff asked the Commission to recommend to the Council that they need
that section of the trail. Staff also recommends that the city attorney
prepare the necessary transfer agreement to transfer that to the City, and
it would be upgraded in 1996.
Hilgeman commented that she is comfortable with Staff s recommendation
because it was supposed to be dedicated to the City a long time ago.
MOTION: Hilgeman moved that the Commission accept City Staff's
recommendation. Kube-Harderwijk seconded the motion and it passed
unanimously.
C. Petition from Robert A. Skanse
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 14, 1995, from
Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources.
Robert A. Skanse, reviewed his petition with the Commission. He noted
that he currently lives in Bloomington and is constructing a home in Eden
Prairie. In the backyard there is an area that has been an area for water
drainage for quite some time. When he originally bought the lot three
years ago, there were no homes to the north and you could see how that
water was draining down there. He was under the impression that
anything he did in the back would not invovle City property. His request
is to fill in the back that would help control the water drainage, and would
also enable him to use more of the yard.
Fox reviewed the background of this development area with the
Commission. Staff's recommendation is that it remain natural, that any
erosion that took place be restored and be put in a 3:1 slope, and steps
taken to prohibit any further erosion from taking place. The second
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September 18, 1995
option would be to recommend that Mr. Skanse construct a retaining wall
at the rear lot line that would enable him to maximize usage of his lot and
preserve the ravine that is currently existing on Outlot C. The third
option would be to have Mr. Skanse fill in the City outlot, incur all the
costs, as well as all the restoration costs.
Koenig was concerned about whether anyone from engineering had been
out to look at that property to find out how feasible it is to put in a
retaining wall. Fox replied that Jeff Johnson was out there and he said
there would be no problem with a retaining wall.
Brown expressed concern about if he put in a wall and raised that, what
would he do with the overall drainage of the whole area. Fox replied that
the catch basin at the bottom is to catch any of the overflow. It's not
instrumental in the upper drainage area. The upper drainage area is
covered by a catch basin. These two catch basins are designed to catch
all the drainage from the upper area.
Bowman asked if any permits are needed for retaining walls. He was
concerned about the look for the neighborhood. Fox replied that City
Code only states that anything over six feet in height has to be certified
by an engineer, and it has to be inspected during construction. j
Hilgeman was concerned about the liability issue in the event this system
fails. Fox replied that the property owner is liable if it fails.
Bowman was concerned about what slope the fill would take. Fox
illustrated it on the map for the Commission.
Kracum was concerned about whether they are trying to alter a natural
condition, or restore an unnatural condition, as a result of erosion, to its
natural state.
Hilgeman commented that she has no problem with Mr. Skanse filling up
to his line. She was concerned about setting a precedent. She
recommended that they restore it up until his lot line.
Skanse commented that he knows that a precedent is a concern of the
Commission, but he appealed to them that this is a very unique situation.
Brown expressed concern about the retaining wall being built on the slope
side of the draining, because if it's on the property line it's going to put
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the catch basin underneath his fill. Fox noted that the recommendation
would be not to impact the catch basin at the bottom.
Brown wanted assurance that these plans would be reviewed by the City,
and that the City is willing to do this. Lambert indicated that he would
be required to get permits from the City to fill in a drainage easement.
MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to recommend that Mr. Skanse be
denied his request, but be allowed to construct a retaining wall at the rear
lot line of this/his lot and preserve the ravine currently existing on Outlot
C. Hilgeman seconded the motion and it passed unanimously.
w V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. None
VI. OLD BUSINESS
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A. Purgatory Creek Recreation Area Revised Entry Plan
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 13, 1995, from
Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities.
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Lambert indicated that Staff requested the City Council to authorize the
City to get some revised concepts for the Purgatory Creek Recreation
Area. Brauer and Associates have prepared three different concepts for
this project. The process would be to take each of the concepts to the
Parks Commission and the Planning Commission. The Commission
recommendations would be forwarded to the City Council. The City
Council would make a decision on which of the concepts they like. Once
the Council has decided on the final configuration, Brauer and Associates j
will provide a more detailed plan of that final configuration. That plan
will be forwarded to the Watershed District to be included in the permit
process for the project that will be initiated in the Fall of 1996.
Staff reviewed the three concept plans with the Commission using sketches
and noted that the major purpose of the Purgatory Creek Recreation Area
is three fold. One is to preserve the marsh and to improve the marsh for
wildlife. The second is to improve the water quality that comes from
Purgatory Creek, and the drainage system in the major center area and
end up in Staring Lake. Thirdly is to provide some recreation opportunity
for the residents of the community.
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Kube-Harderwijk commented that she likes the outlay of Concept C, but
is concerned about the mosquitoes that may affect outdoor dining. She
likes the more formal boulevard coming in, and would like to see retail
shops in there. She feels they can do some very unique designs using the
water as a background. . She thinks small unique stores and ice-cream
parlors would work extremely well. She is not fond of the office concept.
Lambert noted that he doesn't see the mosquitoes as being a problem
because this will be open water and hard edges adjacent to the restaurant.
Bowman indicated that he would be in favor of the retail or the
restaurants. There would be higher property values with dueling
restaurants because of the wall to wall windows on the water. These
would be fine dining restaurants. Some of the shops talked about for the
retail would only be good in the summer and not in the winter.
Hilgeman commented that Eden Prairie needs more family type restaurants
rather than fine dining restaurants. She noted that she has four children.
Kracum noted that he has two children and likes to get a baby-sitter and
go out to a fine restaurant. The only place to go for that is downtown or
to the Galleria. Eden Prairie needs a fine dining restaurant. He feels an
upper scale restaurant will work.
Jacobson commented that he likes half of Concept C and half of Concept
A. He likes the Norman Rockwell of the midwest concept where you
have a little village, a large ice-skating rink and lights.
Brown indicated that he likes the concept of sculptures around the walk
and one nice restaurant. This would be a nice setting for weddings. He
was concerned about two restaurants.
Koenig commented that she likes the restaurant idea. She does not like
the office building and feels that the last thing Eden Prairie needs is
another strip mall. She likes the idea of open skating. There are a lot of
different features from all three plans, but supports the restaurant more
than the other two concepts.
Hilgeman said she supports Concept C.
Koenig expressed concern about the wetland mitigation. Lambert
�. responded that they are going through the process now. They don't know
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if they have to mitigate at all. The initial review said there wouldn't be
any mitigation because they were creating a certain amount of
improvements and improving some wetland.
Koenig asked how many parking spaces the transit hub is going to have.
Lambert replied that he heard 500 to 900 depending on what the uses are
going to be.
Kube-Harderwijk commented that she likes the pond configuration in
Concept A better because it's got two outlets and gives you an island in
the middle.
MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved that the Commission would like to
see the following features: site lines for the fountains as in Concept C;
ice rinks and the tree lit walks as in Concept B; the sculpture and outdoor
public art at various locations that depict nature and history walks, and the
seating as in Concept B; a pond approximately about the size of Concept
C. They are working off Concept C with some other features, and with
the preferred use of restaurants, and secondary is quaint shops. Jacobson
seconded the motion and it passed unanimously.
B. Eden Prairie Transit Hub - Soil Correction Plan
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 6, 1995, from
Kate Garwood, Policy and Administration Coordinator, and Diane
Harberts, Executive Director, of Southwest Metro Transit.
Kyle Williams, representing Southwest Metro Transit, reviewed the soil
correction plan to the Commission. He noted that the soil is very bad.
All of their buildings will be on pilings, but they have to correct the
parking lot area. They are asking tonight to begin that process. He
explained the process of surcharging.
They would like to start this year. They are working with MnDOT and
might be able to develop a supplemental agreement with that project, and
do at least part of the soil correction this year.
Hilgeman was not certain about what the surcharge is. Williams
explained that the surcharge is that which is above the finished grading
project. They will remove the surcharge. It's a load on the site that will
sit there for nine months. When they are ready to build the site, it will
come out.
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Lambert noted that it's a good idea for the transit hub to keep the City
Council, the Planning Commission, and the Parks Commission informed
of what's going on there.
VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. iller Park Plan for Skating Rinks and Warming House
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 6, 1995, from
Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities.
Lambert noted that early this year the Hockey Association hired an
architect to work with the City to come up with a unique plan for multiple
use of a skating facility that would also work as a park shelter in the
summer. Several weeks ago the Commission recommended denial of that
recommendation and it didn't go any further. Staff also noted, at that
time, that they would be coming forward within a short time to
recommend approval of some additional outdoor facilities to help alleviate
Cthe growing demand for skating that the Hockey Association has.
Fox pointed out on the map where Staff is recommending construction of
a parking lot, warming house and skating facility to be constructed next
year. It shows parking with 47 spaces with a conceptual size of about a
600 square foot warming house, with a junior hockey rink and a
regulation size hockey rink. Staff recommends that the park shelter be
just a rock-face block building with a metal roof, probably blue. This
building would have restrooms, and designed to have a covered area for
picnic tables in the summer.
Staff recommends authorization to consider some design services to get a
concise design, and soil testing to see what corrections need to be made
on this property to construct this project. The timing for this project will
be to go out for bid in February, with bids approved in late March and
construction to begin late April and completed by October 1st. The
funding source is cash park fees.
Hilgeman was concerned about this being funded by cash hark fees
because it will take away from upgrading neighborhood parks.
Bowman was concerned about how long the skating season is. Lambert
noted that the earliest is December 15th, and it ends at the end of
February. It's about a two and a half month season.
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Hilgeman commented that she likes the dual use for summer and winter.
They need a place where kids can rollerblade with safety. However, she
was concerned that this was not a priority in the five year CIP. Lambert
noted that in the CIP there was $130,000 budget for skating facilities at
Miller Park in 1996. The schedule in that concept plan was based on the
priorities in the memo that the Commission reviewed. The Hockey
Association is talking about the number of kids coming through the
program, and this is an alternative to providing another indoor hockey
rink. Eden Prairie does not have one-third of outdoor rinks that the other
cities have. Outdoor rinks only work where there is a warning house,
and they are not going to build a warming house in a smaller
neighborhood park. The size and scale of Miller Park certainly calls for
a warming house and outdoor skating facility.
Brown asked if there were any ice fees. Lambert indicated that there are
no fees on outdoor rinks.
Hilgeman noted that according to the CIP, this is next to last in priority.
Jacobson inquired about the status of Pheasant Woods Park. Lambert
replied that they are waiting on the report from the engineering company
doing the soil study. He will have an answer probably in two weeks.
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Mike Moverhill, a resident, commented that he thinks the facility is
needed. He does not think Eden Prairie needs all the football fields and
soccer fields and baseball fields that it has. It's difficult to pack up all the
neighborhood children and drive a couple of miles to skate. You cannot
skate on the free skating rink because it's packed with kids. Round Lake
is not large enough to cover the influx of all the young families in this
area.
Lambert suggested trying something that they have not done before.
Right off the edge of where the skating rink is, build an area for a
bonfire.
Jacobson asked if there have been any requests for a speed skating loop
or rink. Lambert replied no.
MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to recommend authorization to
contract for design services for construction of a warming house, and for
a parking lot, and lighted hockey rinks as per the attached schematic plan.
Hilgeman seconded the motion and it passed unanimously.
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B. Fee Policies
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated August 28, 1995, from
Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities.
Lambert noted that Staff has been developing some fee policies and he
would like to talk about fee policies for recreational programs in the
future.
Lambert invited his Staff, Laurie Helling, and Lyndell Frey, to discuss his
recommendations. Lambert, Helling, and Frey had a philosophical
discussion with the Commission on fee policies.
Lambert commented that his recommendation in the memorandum is as
restrictive as he's comfortable with raising fees to what he thinks is the
maximum. Some of his staff feel that he has gone too far with the whole j
idea of eliminating subsidies. He does not feel that they should be
subsidizing somebody else's baby-sitting or their ski trip to Duluth.
Brown asked why preschool playgrounds and afternoon playgrounds are
so expensive. Lambert replied that for $30.00 you get a tee shirt and a j
recreational supervisor. Many people think it's like a baby-sitting service. l
It's an insult to the quality of Staff that they provide. They hire
recreational programmers. Kids can come and go. It's a lot of
programming and supervision that they are getting for $30.00.
Bowman asked how the other programs are staffed. Frey replied that the
playground programs have 18 staff people and 14 have a child related
degree. Typically they are college seniors, or just graduated out of
college, with a ratio of 1:25, and the preschool is 1:10.
Bowman commented that he would like to see them raise the rates and get
more innovative in scholarships.
Frey indicated that they are the most expensive in the surrounding cities. y
Brown asked what "integrated" is that cost$29,000. Frey replied that it's
special handicapped children who integrate. It allows that handicapped
child into the program on a one to one basis.
Brown suggested charging for the Staring Lake summer concerts because
( it's costing $18,000 to subsidize the program. The program is now free. j
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Lambert indicated that it would be difficult to charge admission because
of the setting.
Bowman commented that the way lie looks at this is he looks at the
dollars susidized per individual rather than the total dollars as a way of
evaluating value for the general taxpayer.
Hilgeman suggested the Commissioners make comments on their copies
and send them to her. She will then make up a master of everybody's
ideas into summary form and bring it to the next meeting.
VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. Resorts of Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities
1. Discussion Re: SNA Designation for Prairie Bluff Conservation
Area and Riley Creek Woods Conservation Area
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 6,
1995, from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and
Facilities.
Lambert indicated that he wanted to invite Bob Djupstrom to the
Commission meeting and have a discussion. He suggested that the
Commission first have a brief discussion on whether or not they
want to pursue this at this point.
He noted that at this point he was assuming that it would be the
DNR maintaining it, and the City got the best of both worlds. The
City preserves the land and it wouldn't cost anything. The City
preserves the land and it still costs them, but they just loose
control of it.
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Hilgeman commented that she doesn't want to loose control over
it. i
Kube-Harderwijk was concerned that if the City puts a
conservancy easement over it, can they then renege on that.
Lambert replied that if the Council signs it, then they can renege
on it.
MOTION: Hilgeman moved that the Commission not pursue the
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SNA designation at this time, until the time that circumstances
may dictate. Kube-Harderwijk seconded the motion and it passed
6-0-0.
2. Article on Prollerty-Rigbts Laws
Lambert noted that this is an FYI item.
B. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
1. Letter to Ken Bomben, President Eden Prairie Soccer
w . Association
Fox noted that this is an FYI item.
Brown expressed concern about the students at the high school
parking in the Community Center parking lot. It seems to always
almost be filled. Lambert indicated that the only area where they
put the two hour limit on was the area up near the building and
beyond that.
IX. AIDJOURNMENT
MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to adjourn. Koenig seconded the motion
and it passed 6-0-0. The meeting was adjourned at 10:55 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Elinda Bahley
Recording Secretary
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