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HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 07/17/1995 ♦ err 1995 1 w � JULY 7 ,L i MINUTES CITY CIF EDEN PRAIRI E i . AGENDA C EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, JULY 17, 1995 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Claire Hilgeman, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer, Brian Mustanski COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - JUNE 17 1995 IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Bryant Lake Area Residents Concerns Regarding Surface Use of Bryant Lake B. Petition from Pheasant Woods Park Neighborhood for Park Improvements V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Forest Hills 8th Addition B. Fuddrucker's and Rio Bravo Cantina Idlewild Addition) VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Prioritizing Projects and Review of Updated Five Year CIP VII. NEW BUSINESS A. Recommendation to Consider Indoor Rink/Park Shelter Project B. Recommendation for Revisions to Schematic Plan for Purgatory Cree Recreation Area Entry � 1 - ,... .',.. '. 1} M1 `.'. 'E • 1)., r� - ,.,.. .. .. _.... !-.�:.V! _:^'' .i.r ,:4..n,.. d.;""_^. r -`fit l' ;r VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF ` A. Rgpnrts of Community Center Operations SuWrvisoT 1. Rgoort on Indoor Ice Schedule for 1995-96 Season VIII. ADJOURNMENT } 2 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, JULY 17, 1995 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Claire Hilgeman, Chair; Richard Brown, Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Bruce Bowman, David Kracum COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services STUDENT MEMBERS: Mark Bremer, Brian Mustankski I. ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order at 7:00 P.M. by Chair, Claire Hilgeman. Absent were Bruce f Bowman and David Kracum; all other members were present. H. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Koenig moved to approve the agenda as published. Brown seconded the motion and it passed 5-0-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTE - JUNE 17, 1995 MOTION: Hilgeman moved to approve the Minutes of June 17, 1995 as published. Koenig seconded the motion and it passed 5-0-0. IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Bryant Lake Area Residents Concerns Regarding Surface Use of Bryant Lake Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated July 10, 1995, from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities. Lambert noted that last year there was some discussion at a meeting when one of the residents had a request for a water ski course. The residents expressed concern about lake use at that time. After that meeting, Staff received calls from people who wanted { to know what the process might be if someone wanted to recommend surface management ordinance, or further restrictions on Bryant Lake. Staff then explained what 1 the process is. The City of Eden Prairie is the governmental agency that would initiate any type of surface management ordinance on that lake. The City Staff generally does not initiate those things unless it's a lake completely surrounded by public land. What Staff has done in the past, is to allow the residents to come in and express their concerns if there is a majority or consensus of the residents living around the lake that want to have restrictions, and then they hold a public hearing. All lakes are public waters and the State does not allow the lakeshore residents to determine what's going to happen to those waters. Because there are residents that have property on the lake, Staff gives them the opportunity to tell Council what they think should happen to the lake. Hennepin Parks Staff indicated to Staff that they were getting comments from residents mainly concerned about personal watercraft or jet skis, and they suggested that the City call a meeting of the residents that live around the lake and give them an opportunity to hear their concerns. The function of this meeting is just to hear the resident concerns. Ruth Bachman, residing at 6761 Beach RQad indicated that she lives on the west side of Bryant Lake, and is a one year resident. Her major concern is that the park regulation for the number of watercraft allowed on the lake is based on the number of trailers and vehicles. It is set at 20 trailers and vehicles, and there are people who come in with 2 or 4 or more jet skis on a trailer which exceeds the limit of 20 watercraft on the lake. She would like each jet ski to be counted as a watercraft and not count trailers only. She does not feel they should wait for an accident to happen before this is regulated. Lambert noted that the DNR gives guidelines regarding the number of watercraft parking spaces. Twenty is the minimum number, not the maximum. There is no maximum, but the City follows the minimum number because they want a safe boating experience on the lake. The reason for this is that the DNR wants to assure that all the public have an access to that public water. Julie Molde, residing at 6961. Beach Road, noted that she has been on the east side of the lake for 15 years, and on the west side of the lake for three years. She expressed concern about counting each jet ski as a watercraft and the configuration of the lake. She noted that jet skis are now large watercraft. She was also concerned about someone setting up a jet ski course on the lake because she doesn't know if it's legal or not. Lambert indicated that he is unaware of a jet ski course on the lake, but they must have a permit to put up a course Dave Stein. residing at 6741 Beach Road noted that he has lived on the west side of the lake for four years. He indicated that he agrees with his fellow residents about the issues, but is a little confused as to the purpose of this meeting. He thought this meeting would be to restrict further the size of boats and that kind of thing. He is very much opposed to further restrictions on the size of speed boats. He wants speed boats to be allowed on the lake, but it would be okay to restrict the number of jet skis on the lake. Lambert indicated that the DNR has guidelines as far as how the City can regulate 2 ordinances for surface management. They can not treat each watercraft differently. They can restrict the size of the motors, the speed, where things can happen and the times of the day or of the year; but they can not give special restrictions to jet skis without including the other watercraft. Jim Perkins, residing at 7012 Willow Creek Road, commented that this issue is 30 years in progress. They never expected Bryant Lake to be to the grandeur it is now. He wants it under control. He doesn't know who to talk to about the resident concerns. Their concerns are just a little more diligent on the people in the park to control the water jet skiers. Everything else seems to be fine at the lake. Bob Lewellyn, residing at 6881 Beach Road. was concerned about what the possibility is of following Ruth Bachman's suggestions. He expressed concerned about the safety issue. Lambert noted that that is a control issue and Doug Bryant, the superintendent of Hennepin Parks, is here and has all the information. Ruth Bachman indicated that there was a jet ski course set up in front of her house on Friday and today. There were buoys set there and two jet skis chasing each other around the course. Renee Perkins noted that she was out on the lake the other night with her husband Jim on their pontoon boat, and watched them bring in eight jet skis into the park. They made more noise than you can imagine. She was very concerned about the noise issue. I Diana Waterbury, residing at 6681 Beach Road,. noted that she has lived there for 18 years. She made reference to a letter from Bob Lambert dated August 6, 1991, in which he highlighted page 337 of the City Code. She noted that she reported to the police this afternoon about the jet ski course. The police had an emergency and could not come. She commented that you can make ordinances, but then there is no one to enforce the ordinances. Brian Duoos, resi ing at 7160 Willow Creek Road. noted that he has lived there for 10 years. He noted that he spoke to a couple of park service officers over the weekend and they were very good at answering his questions. They do keep a count of vehicles coming in with trailers, and they know when there are 20 trailers. When that happens, r they close the park and the trailer have to wait at the top of the hill until someone leaves. The best control for the situation would be to have a motorized watercraft count. He noted that he has used the lake for 25 years and it doesn't seem to be any busier now than it was 25 years ago. Doug Bryant, superintendent of Hennepin Parks, noted that they had a public meeting a couple of months ago late in May. A great deal of time was spent discussing the operation of Bryant Lake Regional Park. They spent a lot of time talking about the jet skis and the problems. He and Bob Lambert agreed to this meeting being held. He is very concerned about the safety issues. 3 Karen Bowan, representative from Hennepin Parks, indicated that they have monitored all the trailers coming in, in particular, the number of jet skis, in the last 17 days. They have had 55 jet skis, and about half of that number would be two jet skis per trailer. They only accounted for one trailer that had three separate jet skis on it. In about 10 times of those 17 days they had a waiting line for boats. They did the same monitoring at Fish Lake in Plymouth and it's similar in size to Bryant Lake. They have had 69 jet skis over a period of about 3 weeks. One half of those have had two jet skis per trailer. All of the rest, with the exception of 1, had just 1, and there was 1 again with 3. Jet skis are not new, but are something of a phenomenon. They have not had to deal with this with much intensity in the past. They are willing to continue keeping these statistics and perhaps there should be some type of ordinance change. Doug Bryant, commented that it's critical for them to apply the same ordinance, the same rules and regulations, throughout their whole system. An issue was raised about jet skis being brought in on the back of pick-up trucks, and they were allowing them to drop off their jet skis and park in the general parking. They took care of that real quickly. They may come in with jet skis on the back of their pick-ups because it is a public access, but now they must park in the boat trailer parking lot. That has reduced the number of pick- ups tremendously. He noted that he is more than happy to work with the City of Eden Prairie and talk about these issues, and see if they can come up with some solutions. Lambert expressed concern about how large some of the jet skis are. A member of Staff was on Lake Minnetonka and saw a wave runner with a mother, father, and two children pulling a water skier behind them with the third child on the water skis. He considers that a serious watercraft. i Dick Waterbury, residing at 6681 Beach Road. thanked Staff for the speed limits on Sunday afternoon. He suggested monitoring the vehicles that are coming in to see if they have buoys, and if they do, request to see their permits because it is an ordinance. Jake Gibbs, residing at 6921 Beach Road noted that he has lived there for five years. He supports limiting the number of watercrafts to 1 per trailer. He also supports the Sunday quiet time. He commented that all of the residents who live on the lake are ; paying a substantial amount of real estate tax to support the community and the lakes. He suggested limitations to those people that do not live on the lake. Lambert indicated that you can not have special rules for people who live on the lake or for those that don't live on the lake. It's public waters and everyone has a right to be on that lake whether they live there or not. Bryant made reference to the noise on the lake from the jet skiers. If they change the times of the lake's operation, they have to change it for all the parks. He suggested changing the time that the jet skis are used on the lake to the resident's satisfaction. 4 Lambert noted that if they want to set speeds for certain hours, there are only three speeds they can set it at: 1) slow no wake 2) 15 miles per hour 3) 40 miles per hour. There are only four different times that they can set: 1) sunrise to sunset or sunset to sunrise the following day 2) 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. or 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 a.m. the following day 3) noon to 6:00 p.m. or 6:00 p.m. to noon the following day 4) 24 hours a day. • Ruth Bachman commented that the generic term for jet skis are called personal watercraft. She assumes that when the ordinance was passed about watercraft, personal watercraft did not exist. Erin )Knudsen, residing at 7120 Willow Creek Road, indicated that at some snow/ski resorts they don't allow snow boarders, and some they do. She was concerned about why this wouldn't be the case for the water. Lambert indicated that that's private property and you can restrict whatever you want; lakes are public property. Brown commented that jet skiers make up 2% of the registered motorcrafts in Minnesota, but in 1994 they were involved in 17% of the non-fatal watercraft accidents, and 20% of fatalities. He was concerned that there is a safety issue here and something should be changed. Hilgeman summarized the concerns of the residents, and asked how the process begins to change this ordinance. Bryant replied that he did not say Hennepin Parks is willing to limit watercraft to 1 per trailer. He said that they are willing to consider it. He suggested that he and Bob Lambert and some of his staff members get together and talk to their attorneys to see if they can come back to the Commission and work with some ideas. Hilgeman commented that if they change anything, they have to change it for all watercraft regardless of type. Keeping that in mind if they limit it, she asked is there ever an issue with any other type of watercraft. Lambert replied probably only with canoes. If there are any changes made, the City Staff makes that recommendation and would not do that without input from Hennepin Parks. Staff would submit the draft language to the Department of Natural Resources. Their staff reviews it and then the Commissioner of the DNR has to sign on it. It then comes back to the City and goes through the process for final approval. If the Commissioner does not approve it, it doesn't happen. Mark Bremer indicated that he is an employee of Hennepin Parks and he is there everyday. He assured everyone that all of the existing rules are enforced by Staff. The DNR has a rule that jet skis can not operate personal watercraft between sunset and 8:00 a.m. the following day. They normally do not have jet skis come in before 11:00 a.m. They do ask for permits if they see buoys in the trucks. They have not noticed anything like that so far, 5 B. Petition from Pheasant Woods ehbOr Park Neihnnrl for p irk 1fmDrov` e_ m�ntc — Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated July 13, 1995, from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities. Lambert made reference to a petition with 100 signatures from Karen Powers and Cindy Egertson. The petition is requesting the City to consider some improvements to Pheasant Woods Park, in particular, the playground equipment, and to make some repairs to the backstop and the player's benches. For the benefit of the residents in the audience, the Parks Commission took a tour of the park facilities last Monday night, and specifically visited Pheasant Woods Park. City Staff is very well aware of the problems with Pheasant Woods Park. The main problem with Pheasant Woods Park is the underground water. Staff admits that this playground equipment is some of the most outdated equipment they have in the parks. Staff suggested that before they do any improvements of the park, that the Parks Commission recommend to the City Council to authorize having a soils engineer do soil samples throughout the park, and give a recommendation on a tiling system that relieves the static water pressure in the ground and drain that area so they can lower that water 4 table. This way, any future playground equipment could go in the ground and not look like it does after three or four years. Safety standards or guidelines have changed and they are in the process of reviewing the playground equipment in all of the parks. Each will be evaluated and then ranked• Then the Commission will receive the ranking, and safety will be the first priority. The play structure at Pheasant Woods Park has a very strong chance of being either number one, or very close to it. Karen Powers residing at 14440 Village Woods 9 Dri - , indicated that she would like Pheasant Woods Park to be first on the list to be updated. She has many concerns as to the condition and safety of the park. She did a comparison of other parks and equipment in the area, and feels Pheasant Woods Park p poses the most danger as far as the safety conditions, and it is lacking in many other things. She explained the existing hazards currently in the park, such as the slide being very hot, the sand surface and wood chips are now recommended, and the cement footings along the slide where children can get hurt if they fall. She asked that the City eliminate some of the hazards by providing up � to date play structures and allow for equal play space for the younger children from 2 years of age to 6 years of age. They would like to see bucket swings, and spring rocking horses on the outside of the actual play structure. She was also concerned with the condition of the ballfield and the benches. They are also requesting a tennis court and basketball hoop. She also noted that having children injured is not worth giving park i funds to an art center. Tori Elltmann residing at 1 llr; WOOdc i)rivr+ noted that she is one of the two Day Cares in the neighborhood. She said that she loads up her van with all the children and goes to the other parks. She feels that the people there want her to go back 6 �' .. K'.-r...-- i 1 to her own park. She also commented that her children would like to see tennis courts, but she thought the water problem was addressed a couple of years ago with the chain of lakes project. Lambert explained the water problem. He indicated that because of the water problem, he doesn't know if they will ever be able to have a basketball court or tennis court at the park. This is why the City want to have a soil engineer come in. Kurt Egertson, residing at 14526 Village Woods Drive. commented that he does not see the water cable issue as the main problem. He feels the main problem is the negligence that the park has suffered for 15 years. The water table problem is the main issue that they overcome, and it seems no one disagrees that the playground equipment, first and foremost, is not safe and needs to be upgraded. He suggested that whatever {, needs to be done, such as studies and fixing the draining system, that the City proceeds down that path as soon as possible. Laura Moriearty, residing at 14297 Carmody Drive noted that she lives a few houses in on Carmody Drive. There are children between the ages of 2 to 10 years of age on her block, and she doesn't know of any of those kids that go over and use that park because it's so unsafe. They live right at that top of that park and it's completely useless for them. Mike Powers, residing at 14440 Village Woods Drive, commented that he goes to the park with his 2 year old son, and his son really has a hard time. When they go to fast food restaurants that have play structures, his son goes wild because they're age appropriate. He was also concerned that there are no sidewalks or crosswalks when this is a park. He was given the reason of no sidewalks or crosswalks because of the flat surface, but the parking lot seems to be surviving just fine. Fox indicated that there is a rather complicated audit being done right now. It's 12 pages in length and it is by the National Recreation Park Association, and has been adopted nationwide. The reason for it's adoption is to take a look at safety standards, and they take into account things such as how often it's being used, and what the age of the children are. It is being done on all playgrounds in the City. Lambert noted that this audit will be completed by the end of this year. Staff will come in with a ranking and recommendation for which items will be funded for 1996. i Jacobson was concerned if they could meet the deadline of Spring of 1996 as stated in the petition. Lambert replied no, that it would not be in the 1996 general fund budget. It could not meet the Spring 1996 deadline because they would not be able to put in the tile system until late May, early June, and then the construction of that would start during the Summer of 1996. It's highly unlikely that they will be able to fund more than one of these playground areas a year. MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to recommend to obtain a soils engineer report and recommendation for tiling the park to reduce the impact of ground water on facilities, that they authorize tiling the park according to a soils engineer recommendation in 1996, 7 that they obtain a soils engineers' recommendation on whether or not it is feasible to construct a tennis court, basketball court or any other hard surface court on these soils with or without a drainage system, and that they proceed with attempting to obtain a permit to clean the drainage swales that were developed with the park project in 1981, and to complete the playground evaluation and come back with a recommendation on priority for replacing playground equipment in the parks system. Hilgeman seconded the motion and it passed 5-0-0. V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Forest Hills 8th Addition Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated July 13, 1995, from Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; and a Staff Report dated July 7, 1995, from Michael D. Franzen, City Planner. Duane Dietrich reviewed his development proposal with the Commission. He noted that this originally was a 23 lot subdivision, but is now a 19 lot subdivision due to the neighborhood wants. There is no controversy except whether or not to have walkways for kids between yards. The trails and pathways are very nice unless they are next to your home. They become very dirty and nobody takes care of them. They will be putting back in more trees than required by a substantial amount, and will be putting in considerably more than the plan calls for. Fox reviewed the Staff Report with the Commission. He noted that this particular subdivision has a change in zoning from R1-22 to R1-13.5. The density is approximately 2.9 units per acre and the average lot size is about 16,400 square feet. There is a total of 12 significant trees on the site. The balance of the trees are Siberian elm and boxelder trees which are not considered significant in the ordinance. There is a rather substantial growth of trees in there. Out of the 12 trees on the site, 4 of them would be lost and the City code requires replacement of 36 diameter inches. Mr. Dietrich has made a firm committment that he wants to put in more trees than what the City requires him to do. The more trees they put in, the more salable the lots are. There are some small pine trees on the westerly boundary that would probably enhance the entire property if they were moved to surround the NURP pond in outlot A, as well as doing screening from the adjacent neighborhoods, as well as Baker Road. There has been an indication by the developer that there is a possibility that he might consider a suggestion. In terms of the storm treatment, the NURP pond located on outlot A, it's scheduled for dedication to the City for City property. There was concern raised by a couple of neighbors that the flood elevation of outlot A, with the NURP pond, would infringe on the two or three neighborhood lots immediately north of there. However, that has been checked by the engineering department and they feel that there would be no change in the drainage pattern due to that NURP pond. The three lots that currently experience water in their backyards, they can expect no more water with or without the NURP pond. 8 Trails and sidewalks were proposed at the neighborhood meetings as well as the Planning Commission meeting. g It was suggested that sidewalks be considered between lots 6 and 7 of block 1. Because of past experience with sidewalk connections between lots, Staff was opposed to sidewalks. j Brown expressed concern about the large group of firs and pines located down the middle of lots 2 and 3. Dietrich indicated that if they can, they will move them and replant them in the entry way. They will save as many as they possibly can. Brown asked for a comparison between the cost of actually planting new nursery stock versus moving trees and replanting them. Fox indicated that trees that they move on site would not be counted towards the replacement. That would be above and beyond nursery stock replacement. Generally, trees cost about $250.00 to $300.00 to move a 12 foot tree. Brown was concerned about the pond gathering a lot of water and not increasing the overflow, per the engineer. Fox replied that he is not an expert and accepts the engineer's recommendation. Dietrich indicated that they are going to have a control device in there to take the water at certain levels and let it out. All they are going to do is make the pond bigger and give it more capacity. r Brown asked what the price range of the homes will be. Dietrich the lot, the cost of the homes should be between $205,000 and $290,0 0 that including MOTION: Koenig moved to approve the Forest Hills 8th Addition via the Staff Report of July 13, 1995. Brown seconded the motion and it passed 5-0-0. B. Fuddrucker9s and Rio Bravo Cantina Idlewild Addition Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated July 13, 1995, from Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; and a Staff Report dated July 7, 1995, from Donald R. Uram, Economic Development Manager. Fox noted that this project is a tight lot commercial subdivision of Fuddrucker's and Rio Bravo Cantina development on Lake Idlewild, which is now called Anderson Idlewild View. This subdivision is on a total of 8.5 acres. The developer is looking for a change in the original PUD which was approved. This was prior to the Shoreline Ordinance of 1982. There are a lot of willows and cottonwoods in mass along the shoreline, but none of them are in excess of 12 inches in diameter. The parking lot has to be screened and they are trying to incorporate a lot of the native vegetation on the site. Referring to the 6 items under storm water treatment in the Staff Report, 4 of the items do not meet the Shoreland Ordinance. This was continued at the July 24th Planning Commission meeting, and is scheduled to go back for final review. Don Uram did not feel these items were any major obstacles. 9 Darrin Lazan, developer, reviewed his development proposal with the Commission using visual aids. Lambert noted that the reason they are considering this is because a planned unit j developmen,was submitted on this entire site before they had the shoreland ordinance that they have today. The City did approve this kind of concept development around this site. The property owner has paid taxes on this for many years with this in mind. In the meantime, the state changed the laws and the City has to conform to those laws. It's a matter of what's fair to the property owner. Koenig expressed concern that the parking was twice what the ordinance required. Lambert replied that they require this amount of parking spaces if there is a restaurant. They have to make sure they have enough to accommodate the people. Brown expressed concern about the whole area being paved and the impact to Lake Idlewild. He was also concerned about Rio Bravo Cantina having 50% more parking spaces than the Shoreland Ordinance. Lazan indicated that Rio Bravo Cantina has a 7000 square foot establishment, and the typical minimum of parking spaces is 150 to meet the requirements of their facility. j i Koenig expressed concern about the impervious surface and some of the other shoreland ordinance issues. She was concerned that it's a very small area with lots of concrete. Hilgeman indicated that she understands the whole PUD issue and does not see how the Commission can not approve this. She does not feel it's a nice plan, and she does not like the amount of coverage. Fox noted that the Staff's recommendation is to approve this project, but there are a number of contingencies listed in the Staff Report. Brown commented that he does not appreciate all of the variances that have to bend for, but they have no choice but to approve it. MOTION: Hilgeman moved to approve the development per the staff recommendations of the Staff Report dated July 17, 1995, and the Supplemental Staff Report dated July 13, 1995. Motion carried 4-1-0 with one opposition by Brown. VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Prioritizing Projects and Review of Updated Five Year CIP (This item was continued to the August 7 1995 meeting) VII. NEW BUSINESS A. Recommendation to Consider Indoor Rink/Park Shelter Arglect 10 Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated July 10, 1995, from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities. Lambert indicated that Pete Rose and Walt Paulson from the Hockey Association are requesting a third artificial rink in Eden Prairie. They suggested that the City construct a park shelter that would be used as an indoor ice rink in the wintertime, and a park shelter in the wintertime. He told them to hire an architect to do a preliminary design to determine what the building would be like and what it would cost. Staff indicated that Miller Park and Riley Lake Park were the only two park sites that had any potential to accommodate a building of that size. Staff's recommendation is that their concept was unique and a good idea, but it would be very difficult for the City Council to find funding unless a revenue bond would cover the cost for construction and operating costs. The plan is for a metal roof building with canvas sides. It would not be a heated facility, and could probably sell ice time for $80.00 an hour. The amount of ice time available from mid October to mid March is about 1000 hours, so they would make about $80,000. Operation costs would be about $60,000, so that leaves about $20,000 to pay off the construction. It is only a matter of time before the City of Eden Prairie is going to have a third rink. The two rinks right now are already booked to the maximum. There is now a girl's hockey team which is starting to grow. Staffs recommendation is that when they look at the site plan for the expansion of the high school and their new access into that site, they make sure their plans don't eliminate the site being able to add a third rink on the end of the two rinks that they have right now. Pete Rose, President of the Hockey Association, indicated that last year their growth was such that they grew by 10 teams. They have gone from 1 girl's team to 3 girl's teams. They are at a point where they are peaking out at the outdoor rinks. This year they have added girl's varsity hockey, girl's JV hockey, and they're going to practice in the afternoon. It's a major problem because figure skaters have always gone from mid afternoon into the early evening. Now they have gotten bumped. They have a lot of people saying that they need more ice. They are going to have to increase the number of girls teams. Right now it's only 1 team per level, but next year it will be two teams per level. He understands that the dollars are not there, but he's hoping that they can find a way to work together to shorten that gap. Jeff Black indicated that they have a large program.. This is not just in Eden Prairie, but throughout the other communities. To have a third rink is realistic. Lambert noted that the next 2 outdoor rinks that should be constructed in the park system should certainly be south of Highway 5. He recommends the first one to be in Miller 11 Park at the location where it's supposed to be. Brown was concerned about a third rink being turned down, and then a bond issue turned down, that they would have no alternative but to eliminate an age group. Rose indicated that they have programs that start at 5 and 6 year olds. That group has about 150 children. The next group is 7 to 8 year olds, which is close to 150 children also. Both of those levels are boys and girls. After that it's a little more formalized teams. Right now the youngest group takes up a minimal amount of indoor ice time. By eliminating them would not solve the problem. Brown asked if eliminating the 10 year olds would enable them to assign enough ice for the upper players, and the girls teams that are going to be coming on. Rose replied that those kinds of numbers might off set it, and it would be in that range. Hilgeman commented that some believe that by eliminating 2 or 3 years of team practice and games for kids, they won't be competitive by the time they get a little older. MOTION: Hilgeman moved that the Commission deny the request for the hockey rink because they don't have the money, and because they just put in a second sheet of ice a 2 1/2 years ago. Koenig seconded the motion and it passed 4-0-1 with one abstention by Kube-Harderwijk. Kube-Harderwijk commented that she doesn't like the idea of denying the request. She would like to try and accommodate it some how, but she doesn't know how. Hilgeman noted that she doesn't know if she likes the design of the building. She suggested that they do what Lambert has proposed and add it on to the community center and have it more of a permanent structure as opposed to a temporary one. Jacobson was concerned about having a population to support a facility for the next 40 years. Lambert replied that if they look at the projects that the school district has for their students, they have been accurate. Jacobson asked if they are seeing an increase in the figure skating like they are in hockey. Black replied that in 1998 the Target Center is going to be hosting the World Figure Skating Championship, and that will certainly have a big impact. They have approximately 150 members now and are anticipating their growth. Speculation is that in 2 or 3 years it will be well over 200 participants. Rose indicated that skating is very much a skill that needs to be worked on. It's the kind of skill that gets developed at a fairly young age. Hilgeman suggested collaborating with another community to build something. They just received a second rink. The City already has people yelling at them about how athletics takes precedence over everything else as far as spending is concerned. 12 • 1' : r Koenig agreed with Hilgeman, noting that there is no other short term solution. B. Recommendation for revisions to schema ic glan for Turgatory Creek Recreation Area (PCRA) entry Lambert reviewed the July 11, 1995 memorandum outlining the reasons requiring the redesign of the PCRA entry. He also explained the rationale for the request that the planner provide alternative designs that would accommodate selling a portion of the sight for private use. Motion by Brown, seconded by Hilgeman to approve the recommendation by staff to hire Brauer & Associates at a fee not to exceed $6,850 for design services for the PCRA entry as outlined in the July 11,1995 memorandum. Motion passed 5-0. ?1 VIII. Reports of Commissioners and Staff A. Reports of Community Center Operations Supervisor Dave Black gave a brief summary of the changes made with the hockey association's schedule and the figure skating schedule to accommodate the request by the high school to provide girls hockey. Dave reiterated that both the hockey association and the figure skating club would have to be giving up ice time to accommodate this new program and have been unable to find indoor ice from other arenas to make up for that lost ice time. Lambert suggested that the school district and the City Council to put pressure on the Minnesota State High School League to schedule girl's hockey in the spring of the year rather than at the same time as boys hockey being held during the winter months. IX. Adjournment Motion by Brown, seconded by Koenig to adjourn the meeting at 11:30 p.m. Motion passed unanimously. Elinda Bahley Recording Secretary 13