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1994
OCTOBER1 3 7
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MINUTES
CITY OF EDEN PRAI AE
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AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1994 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard
Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum,
Joanne Kube-Harderwijk
STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and
Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape
Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural
Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation
Services
I. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 19, 1994
IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. None
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Riverview Heights 2nd Addition
B. Bearnath 4th Addition
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Review of Community-Center Locker Room ExRansion_Plan and
Recommenced Community Center Improvements
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VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. Recommended Changes for Pool Use Open Swim Hours
B. Recommended Changes for Ice Open Skating ours
VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
1. Recommendation on Winter Use of Hennepin Parks Trail
IX. ADJOURNMENT
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1994 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Richard Brown,
Claire Hilgeman, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk, Vicki
Koenig
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Bruce Bowman, David Kracum
STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation
and Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross,
Landscape Architect; Laurie Helling, Manager of
Recreation Services
I. ROLL CALL
Meeting called to order at 7 p.m. by Chair, Diane Popovich Lynch.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Lynch requested that an update on the Land Acquisition from Lambert and an update on
Miller Park lighting from Cross be added to Old Business.
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Kube-Harderwijk to approve the agenda as
amended.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 19, 1994
MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Kube-Harderwijk to approve the Minutes
with the following amendments:
Add to the MOTION of V.B.,page 3 "In discussion commission members questioned why
Wal Mart was not required to pay park fees with their approval. Lambert explained that
state law ties the right to charge park fees to the subdivision of land. Wal Mart bought
a parcel of property that did not require subdivision; therefore, technically they were not
required to pay the fee. Commission members expressed dismay that Wal Mart used a
loop hole to get around a requirement to pay their fair share toward the city's park and .
open space system. They wanted the record to reflect their disappointment with Wal
Mart."
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Delete from page 1, I11, 5th line "Koenig stated the motion on page 5 passed 3 - 3".
Change page 1, II to read, "Lynch asked that an update from Fox on the Tree Preservation
Ordinance Committee be added to the agenda."
Page 4, B, 6th line should read "and then have", rather than "the".
Page 5, D. should read "Cross highlighted".
Motion passed 5-0.
IV. PETITIONS. REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. None
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Riverview Heights 2nd Addition - Beth Simstead of the Hustad Company did a
brief presentation on behalf of the Brown family as outlined in attached Staff
Report of August 19, 1994. She also indicated that on September 22 they invited
35 families to a neighborhood meeting. They had a good turnout.
Kevin and Laura Blumel, 10540 West Riverview Drive presented the following
outstanding issues:
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The developer had agreed to keep the trail on the east side, on the Riverview
Heights property. Now they're asking for a change. The change notification
process was inadequate. The location is a poor choice. f
Also they think the raw sewage put on the outlot years ago hasn't been reviewed.
PCA gave their opinion only on the Williams Pipeline spill, not on the Waste
Commission spill.
They don't think the Brown's should have to dedicate property to get something
from the City. It's damaged property; doesn't think Brown's should be awarded
a taxbreak that other taxpayers will have to pick up paying the taxes on that
property.
A trail in the Wildlife Rcfuge wasn't on the original plans. They are also
concerned about displacement of animals.
In response to the issues Lambert said the City had depicted a trail in this location
down to the floodplain since the early 1980's. The exact location within the
Brown property wasn't critical. The trail is now only a few feet from the original
plan. Cross stated that a signoff from the PCA was received. Lynch indicated
that the staff worked with the City Attorney's office and it was determined the we
are following federal law regarding dedication of park land property.
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Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources
October 3, 1994
Gail Diehl, 10530 Riverview Drive West, stated she was at the neighborhood
meeting. Thinks that whatever is decided regarding a trail location should be ;
decided before more houses are built and then don't change the plan after people
have built their homes.
In response to Commission Members comments, Simestad indicated the erosion
control will be the same as Phase I, which includes silt fencing. They will be
doing more archeological work this fall which will be completed before
development begins.
Mark Frank, 10462 Covington Circle stated he is concerned about the steep slope
and how plows will get up there. Also he continues to get more and more deer
in his yard. Development will just displace more deer and cause them to come
onto his property. Lynch indicated that the deer management plan is being put in
place to help control deer in certain areas.
MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman., seconded by Koenig to approve the Riverview
Heights 2nd Addition as per staff recommendation of September 29, 1994, with
the amendment that prior to development archeological work must be done to
determine if there are significant findings on the lower portion of lots 4, 5 and 6
and that information be provided to staff. Motion passed 5 - 0.
B. Bearpath 4th Addition - John Vogelbacher, representing Sienna Corporation, the
developer of Bearpath, indicated they are asking the City to amend the existing
PUD agreement to add the 9 lots and make the road a private street. They have
received preliminary plat approval and now need approval from the Parks
Commission.House pads are proposed and the builder and developers must adhere
to them. They still have to meet with the Watershed District . There will be
limited equipment in the area; tree fencing will be put up if necessary.
Cross indicated to the Commission that the City can ask the developer to meet the
"Centex plan requirements". Also that they can work with the Planning
Commission on the number of displaced trees that must be replanted within the
project site. They have also been given a variance for the dead end road in order
to save more trees.
Cross indicated that all issued in the August 26, 1994 letter from the DNR have
been addressed.
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Kube-Harderwijk to approve the `
Bearpath 4th addition as per the additional requirement that must be met. Lynch
amended motion to require that developer use the Centex tree preservation policy
in order to prevent additional tree loss and to protect the trees that are there.
Motion passed 5 - 0.
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Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources
October 3, 1994
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Review Community Center Locker Room Expansion Plan and Recommended
Community Center Improvements - Lambert indicated that nothing has changed
since the July 18 Commission meeting when it was last discussed. It is on the
City Council agenda for tomorrow evening. The delay was to allow time to look
for other available funding sources for the Peterson property. At the last Council
meeting, they decided to proceed with the acquisition of the Charlson, Trost, and
George properties using the referendum funds. The Council authorized use of
existing Cash Park Fees for the Peterson property thinking that
acquiring/preserving land is more critical need than facility improvement, which
can be done at a later date. This action has direct bearing on how the Community r
Center improvements would be funded, improvements will have to be funded by
a referendum.
B. Miller Park Lightine - Lambert stated that staff will meet with the neighborhood
at 7:15 on October 5 on the comer of Weston Bay and Timber Lakes Drive to
turn the lights on. Electricians will be there to let the neighbors know what they
can or can't do with the lights.
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VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. Recommended Change for Pool Use Open Swim Hours - Lambert gave
background on the proposals from both Elyce Kastigar and Dave Black on the
need to be able to make better use of both the swimming pool and skating rinks.
He stressed that no decisions or action would be made by the Commission on
these issues this evening. He reviewed some of the existing facts: the pool is
empty by about 8:45 p.m,; the ice arena and all of our gyms are full of children
until 10 p.m. every night of the week; there is a waiting list for ongoing swim
lessons; evaluations at the end of swim lessons consistently express concern that
we don't provide enough lessons, and that we accommodate the Foxjets and no
one else concerning the pool. We have one pool to accommodate 45,000 people.
Lambert thinks the community has not been served as well as it could concerning
the pool usage. Several options to consider are: move the Foxjet practice time
to later in the evening and expand the lesson program,have shared open swim,lap
time and lesson programs earlier in the evening as proposed; or possibly
eliminating the open swim and lap time in the early evening and expanding the
lesson programs into those times; or leave the schedule as is until the new pool
at Oak Point is constructed. However, the Oak Point pool isn't scheduled to open
until spring, 1996. Lambert reminded the Commission members of the long
commitment the City has had toward maintaining open swimming hours for the
general public.
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Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources
October 3, 1994
Lambert recommends that the issue be discussed with representatives from the
Foxjets and returned to the Commission with a recommendation at their next
meeting.
The following persons spoke on behalf of the many parents and swimmers who
came to support the Foxjcts tonight:
Jack Shimoto, 18741 Nature Lane - President of Eden Prairie Fox jets Swim Club
Tad Hauck, 17928 Lorence Way-Head Coach of Eden Prairie Foxjets Swim Club
Judy Wencl, 8531 Hiawatha Ave - Treasurer of Eden Prairie Foxjets Swim Club
Bruce Frimerman, 7108 Interlachen Court - Foxjet parent
Kate Lundsten - .Head Coach, Eden Prairie High School Girls Swim Team
Shimota reviewed the material in a Foxjet Swim packet that was passed out to
Commission members. He indicated the proposed schedule change was not
acceptable to them. The speakers major issues were:
- Why the Foxjets weren't notified before September 30, 1994 of the October 3
meeting to discuss changes.
- The change would present a major hardship. As late as 10 pm isn't acceptable;
some swimmers would be leaving after curfew.
- The proposed schedule couldn't serve those 8 and under.
- They would lose 80% of the 9 - 10 year olds.
- They would lose 20 - 30 % of 11 - 12 year olds.
- Ages 13 and over would go to other teams.
- Compared to open skating, the proposed swim schedule would set a double
standard since there isn't any evening open skating Monday through Thursday.
- There's a 1981 contract stating open swim can't supersede the Foxjets, which is
a non profit organization.
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Hilgeman that the Foxjet leaders, 1
Commission members and staff and Community Center staff work on a schedule
that is reasonable and suitable for all concerned. Motion passed 5 - 0.
B. Recommended Changes for Ice. ORen Skating Hours - Lambert pointed out that
Black's recommendations are to the Director. A survey conducted by Black
indicated that other area ice arenas do not have three hour open skate times.
Black then reviewed how the hours at the Community Center could be changed
to accommodate open skating, the Figure Skating Club and the Hockey
Association. j
Lambert emphasized that the open skate times were set up by a citizens committee j
in 1979 when the Community Center was in the planning. At that time those j
( citizens said if they were going to subsidize the Community Center with their tax
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Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources
October 3, 1994
dollars they didn't want special interest groups to dictate how the Center would be
operated. For the most part, these hours have been preserved since that time.
In response to Commission members Questions Black stated that open skate
sessions serve 75 - 150 people per session with Sunday afternoon having the most
users, then Saturday afternoon, Friday evening and lowest is Saturday evening.
From comments he received from patrons, Black stated they thought Friday and
Saturday evenings were too late for families. Also there were some problems with
some of the 10 -15 year olds "hanging out" and not skating. Black thinks the
Friday and Saturday proposed hours will be more effective and attractive to the
residents, especially families that want to skate together.
Hilgeman expressed concern about cutting the open skating time almost in half-
from 12 hours to 6.5 hours per week. She was equally surprised to learn that
other communities had as little as 2 hours of open skating per week.
MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Brown to recommend to change
the open skating times at the Community Center per Dave Black's memo for
September 21, 1994. a
In discussion,Lambert indicated that no action was to be taken tonight; Staff only
wanted input. Staff will make these recommendations with the total package
recommendations on both the swimming pool and skating rink the next time this
is on the agenda. The Motion wasn't voted on but was taken as a consensus of
agreement by the Commission on the proposed changes.
VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Manger of Parks and Natural Resources
1. Recommendation on Winter Use of Hennepin Parks Trail - Lambert
addressed this issue stating that Hennepin County has left the operation
of the trail from November I through March up to local communities. '
Lambert suggested that this first year be used only for walking and cross
country skiing. Motorized vehicles wouldn't be allowed; the trail wouldn't
be plowed or groomed. He talked about permission from Hennepin Parks
and public feedback as outlined in his September 28 memo on the subject.
Discussion by commission members in how to notify the public of what
we're doing regarding this trail this year brought up several issues: should
there be signs indicating what the City is doing and who to contact if they
have comments, so they don't think we are ignoring them or is it better
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Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources
October 3, 1994
to just let people call the City if the have questions or comments. We
don't have signs now and they know who to call.
No action or motion was required on this issue.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
Meeting adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
Respectfully submitted
w Bev Draves
Recording Secretary
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AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, OCTOBER 17, 1994 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard
Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum,
Joanne Kube-Harderwijk
STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer, Brian Mustanski
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and
Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape
Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural
Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation
Services
I. ROLL CALL - Introduction of New Student Member Brian Mustanski
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - OCTOBER 3 1994
IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. Request for Informational Bulletin Board at Flying Cloud Fields from non
Jacobson
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Recommendation to Change Pool Hours at Community Center
B. Recommendation to Change Opening Skating Hours at Community enter
VII. NEW BUSINESS
VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. Rel2orts of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
1. Notice of Congressional District 3 D Candidate Forum - information
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IX. ADJOURNMENT
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, OCTOBER 17, 1994 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Claire
Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne
Kube-Harderwijk
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Diane Popovich Lynch
STUDENT MEMBERS PRESENT: Mark Bremer, Brian Mustanski
COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services,
Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural
Resources, Elyce Kastigar, Recreation
Supervisor, Aquatic and Fitness
I. ROLL CALL_
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Bowman.
Bowman welcomed student member Brian Mustanski to the Commission and
encouraged him to participate.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Brown added VI., C., Question Regarding Staff Report to City Council
Reg rding Park Fees
MOTION: Koenig moved to approve the Agenda as amended. Motion
seconded by Hilgeman and passed 6-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF OCTOBER 3 1994
MOTION: Hilgeman moved to approve the minutes of the October 3, 1994,
Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission meeting as
presented.
Motion seconded by Koenig and passed. Commissioners Kracum
and Brown abstained.
After the minutes were approved as presented, Commissioner Hilgeman noted
a typographical error, indicating that under III., in the last paragraph on page
1, the word "fare" should be changed to "fair", and the sentence should read
h
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approved Minutes -'
Eden Prairie Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Tuesday, October 17, 1994
t
"... Wal Mart used a loop hole to get around a requirement to pay their fair
share...."
IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. Reauest for Informational Bulletin Board at Flying Cloud Fields
from Don Jacobson
Fox explained that the City had received a petition from the Soccer
Association for an information bulletin board to be placed at Flying Cloud
Fields, and that Staff has recommended that a general, double sided,
kiosk be installed instead.
Don Jacobson of the Soccer Association explained that he was
petitioning to have a sign placed at the east end driveway of the park so
that it would be visible to people in cars exiting the complex. Jacobson
explained that he had discussed this matter with other associations who
agreed that a bulletin board of this type would be advantageous.
Jacobson explained that the sign would be a white plexiglas 4' by 8'
bulletin board, using 6" letters, located approximately 3' to 4! off the
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ground, and it could be located at the east exit so that it would not slow
traffic down at the beginning of events. Jacobson stated that the sign
would be used to put up important messages.
Hilgeman commented that a 4' by 8' sign would be very limited if used
for all of the different sports at that location.
Brown commented that if the Commission allows the Soccer Association
to put up a board, they would not be able to turn down requests for
boards from other associations, and Jacobson responded that the board
he is requesting would be for all associations using the Flying Cloud
fields.
Hilgeman asked about the size of the kiosk proposed by Staff, and Fox
explained that the kiosk would be double sided, free standing, 4' high by
6' long, and could be used for posting sheets of paper. It could be
placed by the concession stand since that is the focal point of the park,
and could be used by anyone since it would not be locked.
Commissioners discussed at what distance the bulletin board would be
visible and what types of messages would be displayed.
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Eden Prairie Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Tuesday, October 17, 1994
Koenig asked if the Soccer Association would donate the bulletin board,
and Jacobson explained that the bulletin board had already been made
before they realized there was a sign ordinance, and it is ready for
installation.
Koenig asked then if the kiosk would come out of the Commission's
funds, and Fox stated that it would, but that it would serve all
associations. Fox commented that there is a sign size ordinance and
noted that the question is where would you draw the line for other
associations and facilities.
Jacobson stated that most associations at Flying Cloud are in the same
age group, so communication with the requested bulletin board would be
within that age group.
Kracum asked if the proposed bulletin board runs afoul of the sign
ordinance, and Fox stated that it does not, but what happens if we need
more signs.
Student Commissioner Bremer commented that the wrong media for
communication was being discussed, and suggested setting up some sort
of telephone communication for urgent messages.
Bowman stated that for now he would prefer the kiosk proposal,
commented that he is in favor of increased communication if it doesn't
deter from the beauty of the park.
MOTION: Hilgeman moved to approve the information kiosk as per the
recommendation of Staff on October 11 , 1994.
Motion seconded by Brown and passed 6-0.
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
None.
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Recommendation to Change Pool Hours at Community Center
Elyce Kastigar reviewed the proposed changes to the pool schedule and
commented that with the revised schedule, which would eliminate open
and lap hours during the fall, winter and spring, they would be able to
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approved Minutes
Eden Prairie Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Tuesday, October 17, 1994
accommodate the Foxjet Swim Club and also offer the swim lesson
program to more children.
Jack Shimota, President of the Foxjet Swim Club, commented that he '
appreciated all the work Staff put into revising the schedule and feels it
will give the Foxjet Swim Club a chance to continue to grow as an
association and hopefully offer a lot back to the community.
Commissioners discussed the proposed changes to the schedule.
Hilgeman commented that this seems like a stop gap measure until we
get the other pool, and stated that while she is not happy about
eliminating open swim, if the Foxjets will accept it, it is a good plan.
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Kastigar explained that this revised schedule would be used until the City
has another pool.
MOTION: Brown moved to accept the revised schedule at the pool for
use by the public and the Foxjet Swim Club per Staff
recommendation.
Motion seconded
o ded by Kracum and approved 6-0.
B. Recommendation to Change Opening Skating Hours at Community Center
Dave Black, Operations Supervisor, explained that this matter had been
brought before the Commission two weeks ago and had needed a little
fine tuning.
MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to accept the changes in open
skating times at the Community Center as per
recommendations in Staff memorandum of October 10,
1994.
Motion seconded by Hilgeman and passed 6-0.
C. Question Reaardina Staff Report to City Council Regarding Park Fees
Brown expressed concern over Lambert's communication to City Council
regarding the Commission's discussion and motions regarding suggested
park fees to be assessed to Doolittles Restaurant and Wal-Mart. Brown
felt the memorandum did not fully reflect the Commission's
( recommendations.
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Eden Prairie Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Tuesday, October 17, 1994
Hilgeman stated that the City Council had also received all of the
Commission's information, and they may have made their decision before
reviewing Lambert's memorandum.
Bowman commented that Lambert will need to respond to this matter.
VII. NEW BUSINESS
None. J
VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF ~�
A. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
1. Notire of Congressional District #3 Candidate-Forum
Information Item Only. ;
IX. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Hilgeman moved to adjourn the meeting. Motion seconded by .,
Kracum and passed 6-0.
The meeting was adjourned at 7:57 p.m.
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Respectfully submitted,
Susan Forster
Recording Secretary
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