HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 12/21/1987 pi
1987
DECEMBER 7
. 21
MINUTES
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
,x
( AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, DECEMBER 7, 1987 7:30 P.M. CITY HALL - 7600 EXECUTIVE DRIVE
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson; Raiford Baker„
Moe Cook, Gary Gonyea, Karon Joyer, Brian
Mikkelson, Charles Shaw
COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services
7:30 I. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - NOVEMBER 2, 1987
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. None '1
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V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS +
7:35 A. Bluff's East 5th Addition - Review of Pedestrian System
VI. REPORTS OF COMMISIONERS, BOARDS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Athletic Coordinator 1'
7:55 1. 3-Man Basketball - Fall 1987 I
i
2. Touch Football - 1987
B. City Council Meeting of December 1, 1987
VII. OLD BUSINESS
None
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
8:00 A. Preserve Walkway
8:45 B. Review of Cash Park Fees for 1988
9:0O IX. ADJOURNMENT
APPROVED MINUTES
PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MEETNG
MONDAY, DECEMBER 7, 1987 7:30 P. M. CITY HALL
7600 EXECUTPIVE DRIVE
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Bud Baker, Moe Cook, Gary Gonyea, Karen Joyer,
Brian Mikkelson, Charles Shaw
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Pat Breitenstein
COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services;
Laurie Helling Athletic Coordinator
I. ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by acting chairperson Bud Baker.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Moe Cook moved to approve the agenda as mailed. Seconded by Joyer.
Motion passed 6-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - NOVEMBER 2, 1987
MOTION: Joyer moved to approved the minutes as mailed. Seconded by Cook.
Motion passed 6-0.
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS & COMMUNICATIONS
None
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
Bluffs East 5th Addition - Review of Pedestrian System - Lambert summarized the
verbal request of the developer's consultant for the City to reconsider the
need for a sidewalk along the south side of Bluff Road. Lambert indicated the
requirement was part of the staff recommendations and the Council approved
Bluffs East 4th Addition subject to staff recommendations; however, through a
staff oversight, the requirement was not included in the Developer's Agreement.
The developer petitioned the City to install the street and utilities for
Bluffs East 4th Addition. The engineering staff drafted the requirements for
installation of street and utilities referred to in the Developer's Agreement,
which had omitted the requirement for a sidewalk. No one caught the omitted
sidewalk until after the street and utilities were installed. At this point,
the developer requests the City to drop the requirement for the installation of
a sidewalk.
Wallace Hustad informed the Commission that Lambert was incorrect in his
summary of Hustad's request. Hustad indicated that the City Council did not
require the installation of a sidewalk as per Lambert's memo. Hustad then
indicated that a number of things have come to light that concern him far
greater than the sidewalk. Hustad referred to Lambert's December 2, 1987 memo 3
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approved Minutes
Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission December 7, 1987
that references a requirement for a sidewalk access to a scenic overlook of
Purgatory Creek within Outlot A. Hustad told the Commission that outlot "was
at one time going to be dedicated to the City"; however, that he "cannot in
good conscious dedicate that outlot to the City now because the City has broken
every promise made regarding Purgatory Creek".
Hustad then referred to a developer that is proposing a development across the
creek who had "clear cut 15 acres of the creek valley with the City's
blessings", and constructed several large ponds in the creek valley, again with
the City's blessings. Hustad pointed out that all of this type of development
within the creek valley is in total opposition to the Purgatory Creek Study.
Hustad further pointed out that sidewalks within the creek valley were in total
contrast to the intent of any trail system within the creek valley.
Hustad indicated that in his opinion the City had a "new agenda" for the
Purgatory Creek valley, and that new agenda had to be developed by either the
Commissions or the City staff.
Baker asked Lambert• if the development Hustad referred to had been before the
Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission. Lambert indicated that the
development is presently in the process of being reviewed by the Planning
Commission and the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission has not
seen this proposal to date. Lambert further indicated that the Parks,
Recreation and Natural Resources Commission had reviewed the proposal for
construction of the ponds and approved the grading request; however, the
property owner had exceeded the grading permit approved by the Parks,
Recreation and Natural Resources Commission.
Lambert then reminded Hustad that they had walked the proposed overlook site
within Outlot A together and agreed that a hard surface path between houses to
the scenic overlook would be constructed by the developer. Lambert does not
have a preference between an 6' asphalt path or a 5' concrete sidewalk, but
indicated it must be a hard surface path between the homes. Lambert further
reminded Hustad that there was lenghty discussion about the hard surface path
out to the scenic overlook and the pathway from that point would be either a
mowed or woodchip path down the valley wall crossing the creek to connect to
the sidewalk extension from Branching Horn.
Lambert then asked Hustad to be more specific on the promises he feels the City
has broken regarding Purgatory Creek. Hustad replied that besides requiring
sidewalk to the scenic overlook, the City was now allowing development to occur
within the creek valley. Hustad also implied that the staff was changing the
commitments regarding Purgatory Creek and that the Council never required the
developer to construct the sidewalk within Bluffs East 4th Addition. At that
point, staff suggested the Commission continue the item for two weeks in order
to provide copies of staff reports, Commission and Council meetings, as well as
a sumary of the recommendations from the Purgatory Creek Study regarding the
Lower Purgatory Creek area and the recommendations of staff relating to this
area.
MOTION: Motion by Cook, seconded by Shaw to continue this item to the next
Commission meeting.
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approved Minutes
Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission December 7, 1987
VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS, BOARDS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Athletic Coordinator
1. 3 Man Basketball - Fall 1987 - Lambert reviewed the 3-Man Baskeball
season ending report. No action required.
2. Touch Football League Season Ending Report 1987 - Lambert reviewed the
season ending report for the touch football league and summarized the
recommendations for 1988. No action required.
B. City Council Meeting of December 1 , 1987
No report.
VII. OLD BUSINESS
None
VIII., NEW BUSINESS
A. Preserve Walkway - Lambert summarized the background of this request and
indicated the petition was submitted to the City Council while the Council
was reviewing the request of the Preserve Shopping Center for 24 hour
operation. At that meeting, the City Council directed the Parks,
C. Recreation and Natural Resources Commission to hold a public hearing of
affected neighbors to hear input on this matter prior to making a
recommendation to the City Council.
Lambert received seven letters and four phone calls in support of keeping
the walkway open. All letters are on file for review and Commission
members have copies of each letter. The majority of the comments for
keeping the walkway open stressed the need for safe and convenient access
to the mall from the neighborhood , and most did not feel it was proper to
penalize the entire neighborhood for the delinquent actions of a few.
Lambert received one letter supporting closing the trail and one additional
letter that indicated that if the trail was closed the City should
construct a sidewalk along Garrison Way, north to Anderson Lakes Parkway to
allow for safe pedestrian access outside of the roadway.
The Commission then requested input from residents. Bob Humphreys, 9365
Garrison Way, indicated that he had written a letter to the Council
requesting the City consider closing the trail , and described the various
vandalism problems that have occurred to his residence from trail users.
Commission members questioned Humphreys regarding his opinion on where the
children came from that were causing the vandalism, the type of lighting on
the trail for after hours use, and the type of existing barriers adjacent
to the trail . Baker asked if Hunphreys had any suggestions other than
closing the trail . Humphreys did not.
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approved Minutes
Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission December 7, 1987
QMikkelson suggested construction of a fence along both sides of the trail .
Humphreys indicated the path is 5' from one of the homes and, in his
opinion, the children using the path would simply tear down the fence
anyway.
Larry Pauman, 9712 Clark Circle, indicated there is no privacy for either
of the families on either side of the path. They have tried to get action
from the Preserve Association and were forced to hire a lawyer to get the
Preserve to even discuss remedies. Nothing has been done to resolve the
situation. In his opinion, landscaping would not help the situation and
the path should be rerouted.
Mel Kindig, 9638 Hampshire Lane, agrees that neither of the property owners
should have to put up with the type of vandalism they have indured over the
last several years; however, he enjoys pathways and doesn't feel that the
City should close the path, but the situation does need a solution. He and
his wife walk the path for leisure and to shop, and he points out that all
of the vandalism, littering and use of the path by motorized vehicles is
against City ordinances. He suggested some redesign of the path to
discourage use by motor vehicles and increased surveilance by Public
Safety, or by the security from the shopping center.
Wendy Mattson, of Ryan Construction, indicated that her company, property
owners of the shopping center, have no opinion whether the path should be
C kept open or closed; however, they would provide money for correction of
the problem.
Evelyn Law, representing the Preserve Homeowner's Association, indicated
that the Homeowner's Association is willing to do whatever the City
requires to resolve the problem; however, they are concerned about
investing a lot of money into attempts to correct the problem and then
having the City decide that the corrections taken do not work.
Law pointed out that there are many residents living in the area that use
the pathway that are not assuming this pathway will ever be closed.
Fred Beauvais, 10285 Amsden Way, said that he lives several blocks away
from the path and uses it often. He does not want the path rerouted to a
high traffic area along Anderson Lakes Parkway. He feels the existing path
is safe for his children to get to the Center.
Robin Walters lives two houses down from the pathway. She indicated that
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Clark Circle residents have had to put up with a lot. She has a concern
about crime and criminals on the path and supports closing the path.
Carol Englehart, 9784 Brighton Lane, encouraged the City to consider
redirecting the access to the shopping center along Anderson Lakes Parkway.
Mel Kingig suggested the City should not concede this pathway or any other
pathway to vandals, but should correct the vandal problem.
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approved Minutes
Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission December 7, 1987
Chuck Shaw noted that staff recommends changing the configuaration of the
path and extending the vertical board wall along both sides of the path.
He further suggested the City design an entry to the path that would
restrict motorized bikes from using the path.
Lambert indicated that he would not recommend the extension of the solid
board wall unless the adjacent property owners supported that idea. At
that point, both property owners indicated they did not want a solid board
wall along their property lines. Lambert indicated that it solid board wall
would be the most effective method to prevent the probrems listed in the
petition; however, a good landscape plan could also go a long way toward
improving on the privacy, as well as the litter.
MOTION: Shaw moved that the City of Eden Prairie, the Preserve Homeowner's
Association, Ryan Construction and the property owners work together on a
landscape plan and split rail fence, as well as redesign of the trail that
can best alleviate as many of the privacy concerns as possible. The
Commission suggests the financial cost of this project be split between the
City, the Preserve Association, and Ryan Construction. Motion seconded by
Cook.
Discussion: Mikkelson recommends the alternative of closing the pathway,
as, in his opinion, the neighbors have suffered enough at this point.
Motion passed 4 in favor, Mikkelson and Joyer opposed.
B. Review of Cash Park Fees for 1988 - Lambert reviewed the recent study of
other cities cash park fees and compared those fees and their formulas to
the City of Eden Prairie. Lambert noted that recommendations from other
committees of past years that have reviewed the cash park fees suggested
small increases on a regular basis, rather than significantly large
increases every five or six years. Lambert noted that the City had not
increased the fee for two years, and recommended a 5% increase for 1988 to
$440/unit for single family, $335/unit for multi-family and $2,415/acre for
commercial/office and industrial . This compares to $575/unit for all
residential and $2,500/acre for office and industrial in Plymouth, the City
charging the most in 1987. Plymouth will probably be increasing their
residential fees to $600-$625/unit for 1988 according to the Director of
Parks and Recreation.
Baker questioned whether the formula for charging park fees for
commercial/office and industrial was fair. He suggested that the City
might want to consider charging by the square foot, rather than per acre
for office and industrial .
MOTION: Cook moved to recommend approval of a 5% increase for 1988 for,
cash park fees, seconded by Shaw. Motion passed unanimoulsy.
MOTION: Motion by Cook to review the 1988 cash park fee formula in
relation to commercial/office and industrial as a goal for 1988. No time
commitment was set for this recommendation. Seconded by Joyer. Motion
passed unanimoulsy.
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approved Minutes
Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission December 7, 1987
C. Other New Business - Baker asked why the Eden Prairie Community Center
won't rent ice to teenage broomball players. Lambert indicated he would
research that question.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9:35 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted,
Laurie Helling
Recording Secretary
AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, DECEMBER 21, 1987 7:30 P.M. CITY HALL - 7600 EXECUTIVE DRIVE
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson; Raiford Baker,
Moe Cook, Gary Gonyea, Karon Joyer, Brian
Mikkelson, Charles Shaw
COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services
7:30 I. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - DECEMBER 7, 1987
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. None
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
7:35 A. Bluff's East 5th Addition - Hustad (continued from 12/7/87
Y
8:00 B. Creekview - Brown Land Company
VI. REPORTS OF COMMISIONERS, BOARDS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Athletic Coordinator
9:00 1. Season Ending Reports
a. Men's 18 & Over Hockey - Fall 1987
b. Men's 25 & Over Hockey - Fall 1987
c. Co-Rec Volleyball - Fall 198
2. Summary of December Meeting with Athletic
Association Presidents
B. City Council Meeting of December 15, 1987
VII. OLD BUSINESS
i
None
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
None
9:05 IX. ADJOURNMENT
r APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
Monday, December 21, 1987 7:30 p.m. , 7600 Executive Drive
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson;
Bud Baker, Moe Cook, Gary Gonyea,
Karon Joyer, Brian Mikkelson
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Charles Shaw
COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community
Services
I. ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by chairperson,
Pat Breitenstein.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Joyer moved to approve the agenda as mailed. Gonyea
seconded the motion and it passed 6-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - DECEMBER 7, 1987
MOTION: Mikkelson moved to approve the minutes as mailed. Cook
seconded the motion and it passed 6-0.
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
None
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
Refer to memo dated December 15, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director
of Community Services.
Lambert said this proposal was originally reviewed in November,
but there was a misunderstanding on the sidewalks. The item was
continued to a future meeting. After meeting with the developer,
staff realizes why there is a misunderstanding. When the Planning
Commission met and made a recommendation on Bluffs East 4th Addition
trails, they asked the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources
Commission to review it. This commission made a different recommendation
for more extensive trails and the City Council approved both recommendations.
The sidewalks were not in the developer's agreement and when the City
installed water and utilities, the sidewalks were not constructed.
Lambert said that the issue needs to be reevaluated and he suggests
the alternative outlined in the November memo.
{ Mr. Hustad distributed copies of Exhibit F which is from the April 25
Planning staff report. He said there can be a number of mis undo ra tanding a
reached after reading this report relative to sidewalks. Mr. Hustad
showed a site plan of Creekview which is located on 200 acres. The
City made water and sewer connections from County Road 1 to Bluffs East
APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Dec,, 21, 1987
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4th Addition and installed a sidewalk and trail from Franlo Road
to the development. The easement was 20' , not 30' . Mr. Hustad
referred to the May 1, 1986 memo stating that there were five
areas identified for sidewalks. They are along one side of the
east/west road opposite the Franlo Park entryway, along the south
side .of .Bluff Road from County Road 18 west the entire length of
Bluff Road alo the south side of the extension of�tg Meade Lane to
Franlo Road, along the west side of the north/south road that connects
the southern most cul-de-sac in the Creek Knolls development to
Franlo Road and along the short cul-de-sacs leading to the scenic
overlooks.
Bob Smith of Hedlund Engineering said he gave a graphic to City
staff Which was meant to be an overall plan and phasing plan, not
a sidewalk plan. He said there was no indication on the graphic
that there was to be a sidewalk constructed along Franlo Road.
Mr. Hustad said the memo states that City policy is to have a
sidewalk on one side of all thru streets. It was the developer's
plan to have this neighborhood remain quiet with very little thru
traffic. He asked what the staff's definition of a thru street is.
Mr. Hustad said that to him a thru street is just another name for
a connector street and he is convinced that the proposal which was
approved is exactly what is being implemented and should be done.
Regarding the staff recommendation, Mr. Hustad said he feels a 20'
easement is sufficient and that there is not a west side of Bluff
Road and Red Fox Lane is not a street within the plat. City staff
told the developer this name could not be used for a street. In
conclusion, Mr. Hustad said this proposal is causing a great deal
of confusion and the plan should be left as is.
Lambert said that when the recommendation was made in May, the map
supplied by the developer did not have street names on it.and that
is the reason he attached a map to the report that showed where
the sidewalks should be located. The issues dor the commission
to consider are two: 1) What did they believe they approved for
sidewalks in Bluffs East and 2) Have they changed their minds?
The only issue left to resolve on the Bluffs East 5th Addition
is the sidewalks.
Baker asked how many homes will be located along& the entire Bluff
Road/Antler Ridge addition when all five phases have been completed.
Mr. Hustad said there will be approximately 70 homes. Baker also
asked where the developer intends to construct sidewalks. Mr.
Hustad said their only concern is to have sidewalks for access to
the parks. Baker said in that case, people would have to walk
r" along the street. Mr. Hustad said he spoke to many of the residents
prior to their purchasing lots and at least 90% indicated they did
not want sidewalks.
; tiAPPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Dec. 21, 1987
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Cook said he believes the City Conncil approved the map which was
dated May 5, not April 11. Mr. Hustad said the Conncil approved the
planning staff report. Lambert added that both the Planning Commission
and Parks and Recreation Commission reports were approved by the
Council. Mr. Hustad said he believes that the two reports were
different and both were approved by the Council. He added that
the developer was not aware of the May report until it was mentioned
by Bob Lambert. Lambert noted that Hustad was present at the May 5
meeting when the report was reviewed with the Commission.
Phil Olson of 18699 Howard Lane told the commission that although he
does not live in this development he, as a real estate agent, sold
a couple!.of lots here, Lot 10 to the McCarthy&s who are already living
here and another to the Wietel's who will move here in May. He was
told there would not be any sidewalks and represented the same idea
to the buyers. After speaking with Mr. McCarthy, he would be opposed
to the addition of sidewalks.
Dean Luke of 10450 White Tail Crossing said that he would prefer not
to have sidewalks. Baker asked Mr. Luke if he had children. Mr. Luke
said his children are grown.
C Mrviand Mrs. Bob (Griswold of 10531 Bluff Road do not want sidewalks
although they have two small grandchildren that visit them.
Kevin Campion of 10365 Bluff Road said that he has noticed there are
sidewalks on most of the main roads. In the year that he has been
living in the area, it seems to be very quiet and although it will
get busier as more development is done,-, his preference is not to
have sidewalks here.
Ruth Hustad of White Tail Crossing said that everyone she has spoken
to do not want sidewalks here since the ones on the major roads are
sufficient. Their major concern is when the tennis courts will be
completed and trees planted in the ne-ghborhood park.
Mr. Hinderocker of 10410 White Tail Cro,vsing said he also does not
want sidewalks.
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MOTION: Baker moved to recommend that no sidewalks be required west
of Wild Duck Pass along Bluff Road and Antlers Ridge, but that
sidewalks still be required from County Road 18 west to Wild Duck
Pass in accordance with Document F. The motion was seconded by Gonyea.
On call for discussion, Cook said his concern is that sidewalks may
be requested in the future and that it should go on the record that
real estate agents and residents have requested no sidewalks be
installed in this area.
Lambert said he is concerned thereLiftl-e sidewtlk along Meade Lane
with the creek crossing access two lots to the south on Antlers Ridge.
Hb -suggests a sidewalk be extended to the hard surface trail. Mr.
Hustad said he feels this is a valid request and he is not opposed
to it-. . This amendment will be added to the motion.
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Dec. 21, 1987
` -4-
Mikkelson asked what staff's feelings are on the 20' versus 30'
easement. Lambert said there have been some problems in the past
depending on how the homes are situated and he recommends a 30'
easement. The developer is requesting a 20' easement although
with the 6' trail that is proposed Lambert feels it could be tight.
Mr. Hustad said that as these lots are sold, the developer can be
especially conscious of this issue.
Cook said he feels we should require a 30' easement and a variance
can be requested at the time of construction if necessary. This
amendment will be added to the original motion.
The motion passed 6-0.
B. Creekview - Brown Land Company
Mike Gair was present at the meeting representing Brown Land
Company and Mr. Wendell Phillippi. As background information,
Mr. Gair said Wayne Brown has been a resident of Eden Prairie
for 19 years, 13 of which he- has lived in Creekview. He is a
subcontractor and has done about $30 million worth of grading
and utility work in the past 20 years. He has done most of the
\._ work from County Road 1 to Riverview Road commonly referred to
as the Lower Purgatory Creek. He is very familiar with erosion
control methods, site restoration techniques and tree protection
during construction. One of his most recent projects is Bluestem
Subdivision and during the July storm there was no loss or destruction
in this area. Mr. Brown has a good track record as a builder and
contractor and has respected the Purgatory Creek area.
Mr. David Brown has been an Eden Prairie resident for 23 years. He
has owned land in the Purgatory Creek area during that time and has
owned a commercial real estate company for the last 12 years. Mr.
Gair noted that Mr. Brown is a former director of National Nature
Conservancy which is an organization charged with the acquisition
of natural habitat throughout the country, an amateur botanist and j
is interested in prairie ecology and natural systems. Mr. Brown is
presently director of the Big Game Organization.
Mr. Gair introduced Peter Ynaeble of Krueger Associates who is the
project engineer for this development.
Mr. Gair showed an aerial photo of the property which is 78.2 acres.
The southern and western portions are pasture and open land and the
northern and eastern portions are wooded. Mr. Gair discussed the
area within the Purgatory Creek Valley. The creek valley itself has
an elevation of 720 feet while the pasture land is about 100 feet higher
in elevation. There is also a very prominent rim running parallel to
the creek that formsthe transition from the upland to the lowland. The
slopes are quite severe and the only practical. access is from this ravine.
.APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Dec. 21, 1987
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Recently a bulldozer was used to clear out undergrowth in the ravine.
In addition, the Comprehensive Guide Plan shows open space and low
density residential up to 2.5 units per acre in this area and is
included in the Purgatory Creek study. Mr. Gair showed a map
depicting the conservancy area and transition area.
The proposed plan includes 41 lots within the transition area, 27
of which are 1/2 acre or more and the remaining are an average of
19,990 square feet. There are approximately 5.99 acres of trees
that would have to be removed within the transition area for development
to take place. Mr. Gair showed the areas where development has already
taken place within the conservancy zone and where lots are located in
the conservancy zone. The only exception to what is being proposed is
that the cul-de--sac will be pushed back 350 feet. This was recommended
by the Planning Commission.
Mr. Gair reviewed the desirable features of this development which
are that the plan as represented preserves the land mass within the
Purgatory Creek Study, 45 to 46% of the site will be given as a scenic
easement which is approximately 17 acres. The date for dedication will
be set prior to signing the developer's agreement. The density of
this property will be 1.5 units per acre which is less than the 2.5
allowed under low density designation and all lots meet or exceed
requirements. Public utilities are available, the development meets
the Comprehensive Guide Plan, there will be a minimal loss of trees
and the developer will comply with the tree replacement policy. The
setback of homes exceeds requirements.
Lambert referred to the copy of the December 11 planning staff report
which recommends approval. The December 17 supplementary report points
out the five issues which concern the Parks, Recreation and Natural
Resources Commission. They are preservation of the creek valley
character, park dedication, trails in the creek valley, grading in
the creek valley and tree removal and replacement. Under preservation
of creek valley character, Lambert said that it was pointed out that
land below the conservancy line will not be developed .arA 17 acres will
be dedicated to the City. Although there will be significant grading, Lambert
feels the homes will have less visual impact than other homes because
of the screening. Outlots C and D will be donated by the developer,
as well as a 6.4 acre lot and the developer will pay cash park fees.
Regarding trails in the creek valley, the developer has offered to
grade trails but staff does not require any additional trails. Staff does
request a public trail easement on Outlot B which will allow people
to walk into the bottom of the creek valley and allow access for fire
fighting equipment.
Lambert added that the City wants to acquire as much of the creek valley
as possible in order to possibly cdnstruct a nature trail in the future.
Mr. Hustad requested, Lambert concurred,and the City Council agreed that
trails will not be built here for 15 years until access points can be
controlled, that the City has staff to patrol it and that it can be
maintained. There has been some discussion that this area has the
u
at
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Dec. 21, 1987
C —6—
potential to be like Minnehaha Creek, but it has never been intended
to be a park of this type but rather like Nine Mile Creek in Bloomington
with a nature trail. The Planning Commission suggested a nature trail
to be built after 2002 and Lambert suggests..'the Parks Commission make
a decision now.
Regarding grading in the creek valley, the developer will donate all
land in the creek valley to the City.
Regarding tree removal and tree replacement, 23% of the trees will be
removed which compares to 31% which have been removed in. the previous
20 developments that are affected by the tree replacement policy. The .
developer will replace all trees as per the City policy.
Lambert recommends approval of the proposal, as well as the revisions
made by the developer at the December 14 Planning Commission meeting.
Baker asked if there is an acceptable tree replacement plan. Lambert
said there is not a plan, but there is an inventory of which trees are
lost and how many have to be replaced. The developer must submit a
plan prior to plat approval.
Cook asked the location of the 8' bituminous trail. Mr. Gair pointed
out its location. Cook asked if there will be a trail on the north side
of Riverview. Mr. Gair said he is not aware of any. Lambert said
�.. there will be.
Mr. Hustad said he does not agree with the proposal and feels there are
significant issues at stake. He has a different understanding of the
Purgatory Creek Study than what has just been presented. Mr. Hustad
showed a 1979 aerial photo of the Lower Purgatory Creek area and compared
it to an aerial photo taken recently. He pointed out the trail that has
been carved in the woods and the trees that have been removed.
Mr. Smith showed a drawing which compared the homes in the area that
they have developed and those proposed for Creekview.
Mr. Hustad asked the commission to note where the homes are to be
located which are on the slope in the most heavily wooded area.
He added that they are not against developing the area, but rather
in maintaining some type of consistency within the creek valley.
He added that a great deal of fill will be taken from the bluff
itself. Mr. Hustad said he feels this development would be devastating
Mr. Gair said he does not believe there is a difference in the way
they understand the Purgatory Creek Study. Scenic easements are not
unlike other developments in the area. He showed a map indicating
the areas of cut and fill. There will be 5.99 acres of tree loss,
indicated although that amount could be less.
APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Dec. 21, 1987
-7-
Ms. Kelly Hueller of 11738 Tanglewood Drive was present at the
meeting representing the homeowner's aiasociation. She stated
that they are not opposed to development of this area, but rather
are opposed to the further destruction of the Purgatory Creek
area. Ms. Hueller said the residents have received conflicting
messages from staff regarding Mr. Phillippi's actions and cited
several examples. Mr. Phillippi received a permit from the City
for excavation of one acre to be completed within a one year
period. This excavation has been going on for more than one year
and on much more than Just one acre. Mr. Phillippi received a
cease and desist order from the City which he has ignored. Ms.
Hueller said the residents believe Mr. Phillippi has violated
City ordinance and added that they have obtained legal counsel
and will do whatever is necessary to stop this destruction. She
asked the commission to consider the matter very carefully before
making their decision.
Mr. Ed Cissum of 10109 Wild Duck Pass said that what Ms. Hueller
said is absolutely true. When he purchased his home, he called the
City to see what the plans were for the creek valley. They said it is
in a concservancy zone tinder Jurisdiction of the Purgatory Creek Study
and would remain undisturbed. Mr. Cissum said this has not been the
case. He added that he is an attorney representing the Creek Knolls
Homeowners Association. He realizes the commission is in a difficult
Position, but they have the trust of the citizens to carry out what
is in the best interests of the City. The residents are very concerned
about the disruption of the creek valley. Mr. Cissum addressed several
issues. The first is the significant grading. He feels there is no
reason for such a significant cut to develop the area. The homeowners
also do not want trails in the creek area. People who purchased homes
in the area had expectations that the area would remain as it is. He
agrees with Mr. Lambert's suggestion that trails should not be added
.for at least 15 years. Mr. Cissum went on the record to say that the
residents do not want trails here ever. It is not because they want
to keep the area for themselves, but rather to preserve the wildlife
and trees. There is also a concern 8 r the number of trees that will
be removed. He believes the number will be much higher and these trees
cannot be replaced. The group is asking for an actual tree count in the
areas where the trees are to be removed. In closing, Mr. Cissum said
the commission must do what they feel is best.
Mr. Knaeble said the tree inventory has been prepared as requested by
the City.
Cook asked how long Krueger & Associates has been working in the area
of tree inventory. Mr. Knaeble said they have been doing this for about
20 years.
APPROVED MINUTES
�• EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Dec. 21, 1987
-8-
Marlys Lund of 10164 Trotters Path said she does not understand
where the tree inventory has been done and what the 23% stands
for since she does not know how many trees are on the site. Mr.
Gair replied that the tree loss will be 5.99 acres. He showed
the location on the site plan and added that it will not exceed
that which has been approved by the City.
Ms. Lund said she does not understand what is 100% of trees on
the site and indicated that those trees that have been counted
have been marked. Mr. Knaeble said that there is a total of
20,363 caliper inches of trees on the site.
Mr. Smith asked if this was an actual. measurement of a survey crew
or an estimate. Mr. Knaeble said it was not possible to take an
inventory of trees in the ravine and these numbers were estimated
and presented to the City for their approval.
Mr. Hustad pointed out the existing grade of the site and what it
will look like after construction is completed. He does not believe
the tree count is accurate and believes an outside source should be
hired to survey trees.
Cook said his understanding is that Mr. Hustad does not believe
Krueger & Associates is qualified to do the tree inventory. Mr.
Hustad said that is correct
Cook asked if the City has any requirements for a tree survey. ;
Lambert said the tree replacement policy is 9-10 months old and
it has been used in the same manner with this developer as it has
with others in that the developer hires their own consultants to arrive
at a tree inventory. Krueger has been involved with several of the
developments.
Mikkelson asked if the City forester has ever questioned Krueger's
figures. Lambert said he reviews all of the surveys and he does
not believe the City forester or anyone else has questioned the
accuracy of the figures.
Mikkelson asked if compared to other developments along the creek,
how does this one compare? Lambert said it is difficult to answer
since all the sites are different.
Mikkelson clarified his question by asking how the grading compares
with proximity to the rim. Lambert said this is as aggressive a
development as they have seen in the Purgatory Creek area. Regarding
the statement about the Purgatory Creek Study being a trust between
the City, developers and landowners, he said it may be a trust between
the Citv and the.. landowners that live here but it is alwa s a ne otiated
deal with the aeveloper. The Purgatory Creek Study is only a gu de
and not an ordinance. Property owners have the right to develop and
the City can only deny issues that exceed the ordinance although some
negotiations can be done. He cited qn example in the Edenbrook area
y
,
t7NAPPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIKIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Dec. 21, 1987
-9-
which was approved by the City. In this case, the entire subdivision
was within the conservancy line and it was approved. Shortly after
the Purgatory Creek Study was approved as a guide, staff recognized
that the best they could do was preserve land within the conservancy
zone. The transition line is rarely even discussed with the
developer. Lambert indicated that Hustad had complied very well
with his development to date and said the aerial photo is the best
description of what has happened. In some cases, Mr. Hustad's
donations have exceeded the conservancy and transition lines.
When this developer came in and proposed what they could legally
do with only one variance request, there was not much left to
negotiate. Lambert said he feels the City has negotiated as far
as they can and Purgatory Creek will be maintained in its natural
state below the conservancy line. He feels the character of the
creek valley will be less affected by this subdivision than by the
development in the southwestfacing slope because the houses will
be screened by trees.
Mr. Cissum said contrary to what Mr. Lambert said, a City is bound
by state statutes, ordinances and contracts or covenants. He feels
the trust or reliance the residents have in the City is a type of
covenant or contract and the City can be sued for violation of
Ccontract. Mr. Cissum said he feels they have a solid legal argument
and will see that the City lives up to their legal agreement.
Ms. Hueller said if this proposal is approved, the City is setting
a dangerous precedent if residents can get by with this type of
activity just because there is not an ordinance to prevent it.
Bob Grisvold said he is finding it very hard to accept that staff
believes there will not be a difference if 20 feet of cut is done.
He is concerned about erosion and wildlife and feels that an outside
source should be hired to do a tree inventory.
MOTION: Cook moved to recommend agreement with staff recommendation
to accept Creekview development with emphasis on City monitoring
of development and procedures concerning preservation of the creek
valley character, park dedication, trails in the creek valley,
grading in the creek valley and tree removal and replacement. Gonyea
seconded the motion. i
On call for discussion, Mikkelson said he feels Purgatory Creek is
a very important area and feels that an outside expert lohking at
the tree inventory should be considered.
Gonyea asked who will hire the outside expert and who will pay for
it. Lambert said the City could hire an independent forester and
require the developer to pay for it.
t'NAPPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Dec. 21., 1987
-10-
Baker said he feels there is legitimacy to what the residents have
said and the importance of validity of tree inventory will be brought
to the City Council.
Breitenstein said she feels it should be up to the City to hire the
independent surveyor.
Mikkelson asked that the motion be amended to read that an independent
agency will do a tree inventory of the entire site in an attempt to
confirm or deny the developer's estimated figures as presented. ,
The motion passed 6-0.
Ruth:HHustad said itrwasdnot clear who would pay for the indepdndent
study. Breitenstein said it would be up to the City Council to decide.
Ms. Hueller came forward to say that the group appreciated the motion
and would like to receive the information received from the independent
tree inventory.
Mr. Hustad commented that perhaps a task force should be appointed to
review the Purgatory Creek Study to avoid disagreements on trails.
C Lambert suggested a task force might be appointed to review the City's
entire trail system.
MOTION: Mikkelson moved to recommend that the Commission go on
record saying that the City does plan to construct a natural trail
in the creek bottom in 15 years and the City Council should create
a task force to study the feasibility of the trail system. Joyer
seconded the motion and it passed 6-0.
VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS, BOARDS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Athletic Coordinator
1. Season Ending Reports
a. Men's 18 & Over Hockey - Fall 1987
b. Men's 25 & Over Hockey - Fall 1987
c. Co-Rec Volleyball - Fall 1987
These are information items only.
Baker asked why there was a decrease in Men's 18 &
Over Hockey. Lambert said he did not know.
2. Summary of December Meeting with Athletic Association Presidents
This is an information item only. Staggering starting times
for baseball and soccer practice at Flying Cloud Field should
help traffic problems.
APPROVED MINUTES
O EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Dec. 21, 1987
-11-
B. City Council Meeting of December 15, 1987
The Council approved the City taking over Pleasant Hill Cemetary.
Preserve Center access was approved subject to finding out what
the costs will be.
VII. OLD BUSINESS
None
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
None
IX. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Gonyea moved to adjourn the meeting at 10:30 p.m. Mikkelson
seconded the motion and it passed 6-0.
Respectfully submitted,
Lois Boettcher
Recording Secretary