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1987
JUNE 1 15
MINUTES
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
AGENDA
�w EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, JUNE 1, 1987 7:30 P.M. CITY HALL
7600 EXECUTIVE DRIVE
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson; Raiford Baker,
Moe Cook, Gary Gonyea, Karon Joyer, Brian
Mikkelson, Charles Shaw
COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services
7:30 I. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
7:35 III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - MAY 18, 1987
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
7:40 Request for Additional Pool Time from Steve Schultz EPHS
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V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
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7:45 A. Twiss Property Development Proposal
C 8:00 B. The Legion Park Addition
VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS, BOARDS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Superintendent of Recreation
8:30 Concession Cart Proposal
8:40 B. City Council Meeting of May 19, 1987
VII. OLD BUSINESS
8:45 Referendum Voter Survey
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
9:00 A. Proposed Revision to Rental , Programs, Membership Fees
at Community Center
9:20 B. Request Approval of Bid for Sidewalk/Trail Sweeper
9:25 IX. ADJOURNMENT
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APPROVED MINUTES
< EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
Monday, June 1, 1987 7:30 p.m. , 8600 Executive Drive
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson;
Bud Baker, Moe Cook,
Gary Gonyea, Brian Mikkelson
Charles Shaw
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Karon Joyer
COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of
Community Services
OTHERS PRESENT: Rick Bolinske, Superintendent
of Recreation
I. ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by chairperson,
Pat Breitenstein.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Lambert asked Sandy Werts, Recreation Supervisor to introduce Kari
Wahl, who will be taking over Sandy's duties while she is on maternity
leave and will be working on a part-time basis thereafter.
MOTION: Cook moved to approve the agenda as printed. Shaw seconded
the motion and it passed 6-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - MAY 18, 1987
MOTION: Gonyea moved to approve the minutes as mailed. Mikkelson
seconded the motion and it passed 6-0.
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. Request for Additional Pool Time from Steve Schultz EPHS
Refer to memo dated May 13, 1987 from Rick Bolinske, Superintendent
of Recreation.
Lambert introduced Steve Schultz from Eden Prairie High School and
said that members of the Foxjets Swim Club were also present. Mr.
Schultz said that the swimming program was begun four years ago and
has undergone many changes and stages since that time because of
the increase in membership and competition in the Lake Conference.
The high school is in the position of not having enough swimming
time.
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APPROVED MINUTES
C EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
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Most members of the conference swim in their own buildings. He
added that the high school went from 25 kids to over 40. That
increase along with the need for more practice time makes it
necessary to have as much swim time as possible. The high school
has met with staff and members of the Foxjets. They do not want to
antagonize other swimmers, but would like to offer trade-off in
times when the high school has away meets. He is referring to the
fall season only from Labor Day through mid November and asking for
an additional 1/2 hour per day which would give the Foxjets the
hours of 2:30-5:00 p.m. The high school has away meets seven days.
Mikkelson asked what is done with the free swim time now. Bolinske
said it is used for lessons, open swim time and practice time by
the Foxjets.
Cook asked how the amount of practice time the high school has
compares to other Lake Conference teams. Schultz said it is
actually a little less.
Mikkelson asked how many away meets there are. Schultz said there
are seven.
Lambert asked Rick Bolinske and representatives of the Foxjets for
comments and said the major issue is whether to cut into open swim
time.
Jerry Snyder of the Foxjets asked Mr. Schultz when dry land
activity such as exercises are done. Schultz said this is
generally done in the morning.
Mr. Snyder said he is concerned because the Foxjets is a feeder
program to the high school swimming team and that 60-75X of the
swimmers are from Eden Prairie with about 80-125 kids in the club.
He is concerned with the younger kids having too much spare time.
Dave Goebel, a member of the Foxjet Board, said that the younger
kids swim on Tuesdays and Thursdays and that this program is j
considered a latch key program for working parents. The Foxjets do
not want to take time from the high school girls, but if they are
pushed back 1/2 hour they would be swimming until 8:00 p.m. He
does not know how large the senior group will be this fall, but
they could possibly get by with three or four lanes and leave the
rest for open swimming.
Cook asked if youth sports aren' t being started too early and why
is third grade considered such a good time to start. Goebel said
the Foxjets were a high powered swim team at the beginning, but the
program has changed. He said there are no olympic caliper swimmers
on the team at this time and they are more of a community swim
team. The club is a member of the U.S. Swim Team. The average j
child between 6 and 10 years old is in the water three days a week.
The club would like a better program in between lessons and
competitive swimming.
APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
-3-
Cook said he feels children are being encouraged and then not given
sufficient time to swim at the high school level. He added that
the pools should not be used as a babysitting program. Cook asked
how many people utilize the swimming programs for this reason.
Goebel said he does not have an accurate number, but that it is a
factor for some people.
Shaw said his understanding is that swim time during September,
October and part of November will overlap with the school. Goebel
said that was true and the club holds championships in February.
The summer program runs from May through July and the pool is used
strictly for practice.
Gonyea asked where the clubs swims competitively. Goebel said they
usually use the pool at Richfield Junior High.
Cook asked which swimmers use the pool during the prime time of
7:30-8:30 p.m. Bolinske said it is mainly young people.
Mikkelson asked if it is true that 85% of the swim team are
residents of Eden Prairie. Goebel said the figure was actually
about 67% two weeks ago, but the club is mainly an Eden Prairie
based team.
Mikkelson asked if the Foxjets couldn't be a completely Eden
Prairie based team. Goebel said it could be if there were more
swimmers from Eden Prairie.
Cook said his understanding is that we are talking about 38 hours
of time. Goebel said the additional 1/2 hour may or may not be
important to the Foxjets in the fall, but he is unsure at this
time.
Lambert said that as the memo clearly states, the City's priorities
are with the high school first and secondly with the Foxjets. He
added that the school will receive the additional 30 minutes per
their request unless the Commission wants to allow the Foxjets to
take 1/2 hour of open swim time for the months of September through
October. Lambert reminded the Commission that during the park bond
referendum this year, there were many comments regarding open use
of pool time, ice rinks and other athletic facilities and the City
Council felt that open time should be protected. He noted that
there was not a girls swim team when the Community Center opened.
Gonyea said his understanding is that the Community Center was
opened with the general public first in mind. He asked if the
Foxjets contribute any money to the Community Center. Lambert
replied that the Foxjets are an Eden Prairie based team and pay
// pool rental.
l„ Baker said that if we cut into public time, what times of the day
this would involve. Bolinske said this would involve the hours of
7:30-8:00 p.m.
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APPROVED MINUTES
`. EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
-4-
Baker asked how many people use the pool during this time.
Bolinske said it is generally 30 to 50 people.
Baker asked what options have been pursued with the morning swim
time. Bolinske said both groups need swim time and they have
encouraged them to use morning swim time. Neither group wants to
push the general public out of swim lanes. He added that as many
as 20-40 people come in to swim at 5:00 a.m.
Cook said although he sympathizes with the Foxjets, needs are such
that there are not enough available facilities.
MOTION: Cook moved to recommend that an additional 1/2 hour of
pool time be extended to the high school for a total of 2-1/2 hours
daily and that this time is subtracted from the Foxjets time and
also that the open swim time be maintained from 7:30-8:30 p.m.
Shaw seconded the motion and it passed 6-0.
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Twiss Property Development Proposal
Refer to memo dated May 27, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of
Community Services.
Mr. Mike Gair of Gair & Associates, Site Design and Planning
Consultants, was present at the meeting and briefly introduced Mr.
& Mrs. Twiss, Wayne Brown, David Brown, Greg Brown and Peter
Knaeble.
Mr. Gair reviewed the property which is located in the southeast
portion of Eden Prairie, 1/2 mile off Bennett Place. The site is
10.5 acres with a 660, east-west dimension and a 660, north-south
dimension. He pointed out the location of Purgatory Creek within
the Bluestem property.
Lambert asked the present location of the barn. Gair showed its
location and added that Bennett Place is currently under
construction with the Twiss property lying west of Bluestem. The
Twiss property is being sold to David and Wayne Brown. It is
currently zoned rural and the developer is asking a zoning change
to R1-13.5 similar to the Bluestem First Addition to the east. The
plan indicates two land uses -- the southeast portion of two acres,
which is 20% of the site, is designated as public open space,
floodplain and park. Elevations range from 750, at the creek up to
8001 . The remaining 8 acres is designated low density residential
and includes land with elevations of 750' in the southeastern
corner to 853, near the Twiss home.
Gair said that the proposal is to extend a roadway from Bennett
Place west into the Bluestem First Addition to the northwest Twiss
property corner. Future access woiild be through Eden Prairie Acres
which is the Hustad property and connect with Purgatory Road.
Parallel contours to this road allow the development of the Hustad
property. It is proposed to plat the low density residential areas
APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
-5-
with 14 single family home sites. The only problem is that 5.2
acres or 50% of the Twiss property is located in the conservancy
zone. Gair showed the location of the conservancy line on the site
map. Contour elevations range from 830 on the west to 800 on the
east and it appears that this property includes 48% more land in
the conservancy zone than similar properties in the area. After
reviewing the Purgatory Creek study, Gair said that neither the
property owners or developer is opposed to it, but would like to
propose a solution which would accommodate both the objectives of
the owners and the study. The developer is proposing 14 single
family lots on the site and would like adjustments to the
conservancy line to include .85 acres of the 5.2 acres within the
designated conservancy zone in the plat area. In addition, they
are proposing that two outlots of 3.39 acres or 33% of the site be
dedicated to the City and that .98 acres or 9.3% be designated as a
scenic easement. This would result in 41.6% of the site committed
to scenic easement or public open space. Approximately 2.0 acres
of trees will be removed of the 6.4 acres of green space which
would allow about 67% to remain. Tree replacement would be
provided according to City ordinance. The developer feels this is
a reasonable and fair request and has spoken to staff.
Baker asked why the conservancy line runs in such an uneven manner.
Lambert said the line was developed in 1975 by Brauer and
Associates and because of the U-shaped bend in the creek and to
protect the ravine, the line does not follow the contour of
Purgatory Creek. He added that the study is a guide that was
developed at a large scale and it was recognized that the
conservancy line would have to be adjusted.
Baker asked what the City will be losing. Lambert said two key
areas are: the filling of the ravine with 20, of fill, and
allowing a house to be constructed on the point. Staff's major
concern is the impact of this proposal on the creek valley, but
Lambert said the developer has been sensitive to the site and to
staff's concerns. The reason the issue was brought to this
commission prior to the Planning Commission review is that the
Planning Commission will ask what the Parks Commission recommends
on moving the scenic easement line. Lambert added that he has had
calls from people wanting to buy lots in this area asking whether ;
decks can be located in the conservancy line. The answer to this
question is no.
Mikkelson asked how far it is from the base of the fill to the
creek. Gair said it is approximately 2001 .
Cook asked what the contour is at the bottom of the fill compared
to the creek. Gair said there is a 60' drop with the creek at 870.
Cook said that he can appreciate needing fill for the road, but
that this will be enough to support two lots.
Cook asked if there is a reason the developer is trying to claim
additional land for additional lots. Gair said that this issue
deals with a certain amount of reasonableness. He agreed that this
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
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involves two lots, but the developer wants to bring the road
through to allow for the platting of the property and to keep a
medium between high and low ground which would have the least
impact on the conservancy zone. Gair said there is no practical
value to move further to the south.
Cook asked if 20, of fill is actually necessary. Gair replied that
because of differences in contour elevation, the 20, of fill is
necessary in order to be able to develop the lot.
Gonyea asked if fill has been allowed in the conservancy zone
before. Lambert said that the line has been adjusted previously
and he cited the example of Townline Road where an individual owns
five acres, all within the conservancy zone, and wants to develop
it into ten lots. In this case, the line will have to be moved
significantly; however, in the creek valley it is nearly a half
mile wide in this location.
Gonyea asked about the legal aspects involved. Lambert reminded
the Commission that the Purgatory Creek Study is only a guide and
not an ordinance. The City has control on development on steep
slopes and has the shoreland ordinance and floodplain ordinance.
Gonyea asked if the City has had a y good success rate in having the
developers do what the City has requested. Lambert said there have
been several incidents where more trees were removed than was
approved. However, snow fence is now required along approved
grading limits.
Baker asked for a review of the basic street plan and asked if the
developer would consider decreasing the depth of the lots on the
north side of the street. Gair said the developer wants a good
balance and would like to leave the road where it is since it is
the best location for it. Ending the road with a cul-de-sac was
considered, but it was felt that better access needed to be
provided for Mr. Hustad's development and that the proposal will
not affect the future of the creek corridor.
MOTION: Shaw moved to recommend approval of a zoning district
change- from rural to RM-13.5 and the addition of a 4.37 acre
dedication and scenic easement with the developer providing tree
replacement in accordance with City ordinance. Gonyea seconded the
motion and it passed 6-0.
B. The Legion Park Addition
Refer to staff report dated May 22, 1987.
This is an information item only.
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
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Lambert said he did not request that the developers be present
since the only issue related to parks and recreation is the trail
along Country Road 4 which has already been constructed.
Baker asked if the parking lot will be paved. Lambert said that
the new building will be constructed behind the existing building,
then the old building will be demolished and the parking lot paved.
No action was taken.
VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS, BOARDS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Superintedent of Recreation
1. Concession Cart Proposal
Refer to memo dated May 28, 1987 from Tom Eastman, Supervisor
of Recreation.
Bolinske said that in speaking with Tom Eastman, he thinks that
the concession cart is a tremendous idea. He cited an example
of a cart of this type being used at the state hockey
tournaments and people waiting in line to buy the product while
other concessions were empty. The existing Round Lake
concession faces the beach and no business is derived from the
softball players. The concession is closed by 6:00 p.m. on
most summer evenings. The concession cart could be brought
around anywhere in the park and he feels that with its colorful
exterior and excellent product there could be as much as an 80%
or 90X profit margin. The cart could be run on a commission
basis.
Baker asked what the suggested price of the product is.
Bolinske said he has seen it as high as $1.00.
Baker asked how the City would pay for the cart. Bolinske said
there is enough money in the concession budget which was to be
used for paddle boats, but since the paddle boat at the senior
center will be woved to Round Lake, the City could still
purchase two paddle boats and have enough left over for the
concession cart.
Baker asked if some of the profits from the concession cart can
be escrowed to buy another paddle boat in the future. Bolinske
said yes.
Baiter asked what has to be done to disallow the Blue Bell ice
cream truck in Round Lake Park when the City itself is selling
ice cream. Lambert said the Blue Bell concession has been told
numerous times that the only concessions allowed are those
where the money goes back to the public.
APPROVED MINUTES
C_ EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
-8-
Shaw said he attended the ice skating show and noticed the poor
sound system. Bolinske said if the bond referendum had passed,
a new sound system would have been added. He feels we would
need to hire a neutral sound engineer and have him recommend a
good system to us.
Cook asked if the concession cart could be here by July 4.
Bolinske said yes.
Baker asked what the thoughts are on commissions. Bolinske
said as an example, we could sell the cones for $1.00 and give
a 20% commission to the seller.
MOTION: Cook moved to recommend approval of the purchase of a
Tropcal Snow Cart at a price of $2,245.00. Baker seconded the
motion and it passed 6-0.
At this time, Rick Bolinske introduced Rick Bolunshuk who is
working at the Community Center on a 13 week internship from
UND.
B. City Council Meeting of May 19, 1987
`- The Council approved the following: hiring of consultants for park
planning, bond referendum park study, Edina-Eden Prairie adaptive
program concept and the rowing club regatta.
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Referendum Voter Survey
A draft copy of the survey was included in the packets. It was
given to Bob Slocum of Carmichael Lynch for review and staff has
not heard back from him to date. The draft was also given to the
City Council. Lambert feels the survey should be kept short and
easy to complete. It will be sent to the 2510 voters who will
answer why they did or did not support the park bond referendum and
send it back in a self addressed, stamped envelope.
Cook referred to Question 3 and felt the wording should be changed
to read "favor" or "oppose" instead of "strongly favor" or
"strongly oppose". After discussion, the commission agreed to the
change.
MOTION: Mikkelson moved to recommend approval of the draft survey
as amended. Gonyea seconded the motion and it passed 6-0.
APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
-9-
VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. Proposed Revision to Rental, Programs, Membership Fees at _Community
Center
Refer to memo dated May 26, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of
Community Services.
Lambert said the issue of proposed changes in fees has been
discussed for some time. In 1986, the Community Center lost
$40,000 which is more than ever before. The major difference was
the $30,000 loss in summer ice time rental caused by more summer
leagues and more competition. If the City could operate on a break
even basis, an increase in fees would not be necessary. Staff is
recommending major changes to include an increase in pool rental
and racquetball fees along with a change in membership structure.
A survey of the YMCA and other community buildings showed pool
rental ranging from $35 per hour to $132 per hour. The Community
Center presently charges only $20 per hour. Staff is proposing an
increase to $28 per hour for the remainder of 1987 and an increase
of $35 per hour beginning in 1988. Instead of so many different
membership programs, staff is recommending three different
Ccategories -- youth, adult and family for resident and non-
resident. Lambert feels that a fair amount of revenue can be
generated in this manner. Comparisons were also made on the cost
of swimming lessons and Eden Prairie has been exceptionally cheap.
It is proposed that a membership would include free use of fitness
center, free use of swimming pool during open swim time, free use
of ice arena during open skating, reduced racquetball rates,
reduced lesson fees, special events would be free, reduced rates
for classes such as aerobics, and youth can use racquetball courts
free during the summer. Lambert feels this will give a healthy
jump in memberships and raise revenue.
Bolinske commented that the new membership structure would be good
one year from date of purchase instead of January to January with a
decrease in cost.
Baker asked about ice time rentals during the summer. Bolinske
said insurance costs have hurt the amount of time used for hockey
and they look to figure skating to make up for it.
Baker said that since racquetball generates a lot of profit and the
Community Center is down to only two courts, what would it take to
build an additional court. Bolinske said the payback on a
racquetball court is about three years and he feels the racquetball
courts and fitness center are the two most important items at the
Community Center for adults.
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APPROVED MINUTES
�• EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
-10-
Baker asked if this commission can go ahead and build a racquetball
court without a bond referendum.
Bolinske commented that there is not enough available at the
Community Center to attract adult memberships.
Baker asked what the City Council's response would be to proceed
with the building of another racquetball court. Lambert said they
would look at it seriously, but it will cost between $800,000 and
$850,000 to brick face the building and the City won't get the
entire cost from the lawsuit. The Community Center needs to move
the recreation staff into their own offices, the middle bank of
lockers need to be replaced with full length lockers, the entire
locker room and pool deck should be tiled and three racquetball
courts should be added in the future.
Bolinske said the building still has to be brick faced, with or
without an additional racquetball court.
Steve Schultz said that lie is concerned with program costs, but
agrees that there are not enough facilities available for adults.
He added that discount memberships could be made available to those
with kids in programs.
Bolinske said the Foxjets pay over $12,000 in pool rental per year.
Lambert questions whether it would be fair to raise only the ice
time rental and not pool rental.
Snyder asked if the high school pays for pool time. Lambert said
they pay the same rates as everyone else except during the day when
it is $6 per hour less.
Baker added that the high school pays a reduced rate for ice time.
Cook referred to the request by the high school for additional pool
time which was discussed earlier in the meeting. He said he feels
needs should be closely monitored in order to have those needs
justified for the next bond referendum.
Bolinske said they have encouraged swimming lessons during the fall
and winter, but this has not decreased the number of summer
swimming lessons.
Baker asked if the Foxjets go to Richfield for meets because it is
a better facility. Schultz said they do not go to Richfield
because of a better pool since Eden Prairie has the eight lanes
necessary, but there is seating capacity for 400-500 at Richfield
and also at Coon Rapids, but they have to pay as much as $2,000 to
hold a meet. He feels the Community Center should add more seating
capacity and locker rooms. The Foxjets host about 6-8 meets per
year.
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( APPROVED MINUTES
` EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
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Bolinske said he feels lockers and seating capacity are important.
Lambert said it would be difficult to put in a grandstand at the
Community Center.
Bolinske said the Community Center has seating for about 300 at
this time. Schultz said the Foxjets would have a minimum of two
meets per year.
Breitenstein requested that the commission get back to the subject
at hand which is the new membership structure and increase in
rates.
Lambert said action is required to support staff recommendations
and bring it before the City Council. It will take 6-8 weeks to
make changes relating to memberships. He feels it would be
appropriate to wait until the lawsuit has been settled to discuss
additional facilities. Lambert added that the Council is expecting
a similar bond referendum next spring and it will be at least then
before construction could begin.
MOTION: Cook moved to recommend proceeding with staff
recommendations regarding membership changes and new fee schedule
Cat the Community Center. Shaw seconded the motion and it passed 6-
0.
B. Request Approval of Bid for Sidewalk/Trail Sweeper
Refer to memo dated May 26, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of
Community Services.
Lambert said the purchase of this item was approved in the 1987
budget. Staff tried a number of machines and found that the
smaller unit worked better than a larger one. Staff recommends
accepting a bid of $24,922.14 from Tennant Company for a 365
sweeper.
Gonyea asked if there is much difference between the Model 255 and
Model 365. Lambert said the specifications were for the larger
model, but this one is very similar.
Cook asked about a warranty of the machine. Lambert said there is
a full one year warranty.
Cook asked how long Tennant has been in business and if it is a
reputable company. Lambert said they have been in business for
many years and are a major builder of sweepers.
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APPROVED MINUTES
I .
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987
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MOTION: Shaw moved to recommend acceptance of the bid from Tennant
Company for $24,922.14 for a sidewalk/trail sweeper. Mikkelson
seconded the motion and it passed 6-0.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Gonyea moved to adjourn the meeting at 9:45 p.m. Cook
se— co�n •ed the motion and it passed 6-0.
Respectfully submitted,
Lois Boettcher i
Recording Secretary
`. AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, JUNE 15, 1987 7:30 P.M. CITY HALL j
7600 EXECUTIVE DRIVE
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson; Raiford Baker,
Moe Cook, Gary Gonyea, Karon Joyer, Brian
Mikkelson, Charles Shaw
COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services
7:30 1. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - JUNE 1, 1987
I :
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
None
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
7:35 A. Bluestem III Addition r
7:45 B. Timber Creek North
VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS, BOARDS & STAFF
8:35 City Council Meeting of June 3, 1987
i
VII. OLD BUSINESS
8:45 Recommendations on Edenvale Trail & Review of EAW
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
9:00 A. Request Authorization to Hire Architect to Prepare Plans
and Specifications for Repairs of Community Center
9:15 B. Approve Bids for Eden Lake Elementary Playstructure
9:20 IX. ADJOURNMENT
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(APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
` Monday, June 15, 1987
7:30 p.m. , 8600 Executive Drive
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson;
Bud Baker, Moe Cook,
Gary Gonyea, Karon Joyer,
Charles Shaw
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Brian Mikkelson
COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of
Community Services
I. ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by chairperson,
Pat Breitenstein.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Lambert added C. Camp Edenwood under VIII. New Business. H „
MOTION: Shaw moved to approve the agenda as amended. Cook seconded
Me motion and it passed 6-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - JUNE 1, 1987
Cook asked that the word "club" be changed to "high school" in the last
paragraph on Page 1 and in Paragraphs 1 and 3 on Page 2.
Baker asked that the word "street" in Paragraph 6 on Page 6 be changed
to read ". . .lots on the north side of the street." Also, that the
first sentence in the last paragraph on Page 7 be changed to read,
"Baker asked what has to be done to disallow the Blue Bell ice cream
truck in Round Lake Park when the City itself is selling ice cream."
MOTION: Baker moved to approve the minutes as amended. Cook seconded
t-Fe motion and it passed 5-0. Joyer abstained.
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
None
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
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A. Bluestem III Addition
Refer to staff report dated June 5, 1987 and memo dated June 10,
1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services.
Lambert introduced David Brown and Brian Olson. The developer is
requesting the replatting of four existing lots into three larger
lots,
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'APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987
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Mr. Olson, landscape architect for Ron Kruger and Associates,
pointed out several areas on the site plan -- dark green depicting
park dedication and tan being the second addition of the site. A
map oil the replatted area showed the wider lots which are an
average of 123 feet with a depth of 120-125 feet. Dark green on
this map indicates additional parkland which will be dedicated to
the City.
Lambert said staff's concern is the moving of the conservancy line
to accommodate larger homes on these lots. The developer wants to
move the line 10-15 feet, reduce the number of lots from four to
three and dedicate an additional 1.6 acres to the City. This
proposal was approved by the Planning Commission and he also
recommends approval.
Baker asked if the proposed changes to the conservancy line can be i
seen on the site plan. Olson said that by looking at a combination
of the two site plans, the dark dash line indicates existing and
proposed conservancy lines.
Baker asked if the proposed line will allow decks to be built on
the new homes. Olson said yes.
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Cook asked if new homeowners realize that they cannot build within
the conservancy line. Brown said he tries to make this point
clear; however, many residents don't believe it since it is their
land. He added that if the developer had known the type and
quality of homes that were to be built on this site, the road could
have been moved to a different location. At this point, it would
cost a great deal of money.
MOTION: Baker moved to recommend approval of Bluestem Hills 3rd
AdUF on per staff recommendation. Gonyea seconded the motion and
it passed 6-0.
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B. Timber Creek North
Refer to staff report dated June 5, 1987 and memo dated June 10,
1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services.
Lambert introduced Mr. Terry Snyder, development consultant
representing Timber Creek North. Mr. Snyder reviewed the site
which is located on 88.9 acres south of Townline Road and north of
Purgatory Creek. Minor changes were made in the plan based on
requests made by staff. The developer proposes building 68 cluster
townhomes and 40 single family homes on the site. Mr. Snyder said
the City has a unique opportunity to acquire additional parkland on
this site, as the developer has agreed to dedicate 51.1 acres for
preservation, 30 acres of which are in the Purgatory Creek
floodplain, in lieu of cash park fees. The developer is requesting j
r. an amendment to the original PUD which was for the construction of
120 townhomes and 68 single family homes. Mr. Snyder said the
developer has reached a compromise with the City regarding the tree
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987
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replacement policy. They are preserving approximately 85% of the
existing trees and the developer feels that most of the trees,
which the City has included as being potentially impacted, can be
saved and the money used for retaining walls, etc. The other issue
is the trail system. After several meetings with the neighbors,
Mr. Snyder feels that everyone is satisfied with the exception of a
few residents. The developer's basic premise it to preserve the
area in its natural state and to provide three access points into
the site. The three access points are at the top of the hill off
Townline Road, at the end of the cul-de-sac for emergency vehicles
and pedestrians and Creekview Lane. The developer agrees with
staff recommendations regarding sidewalks.
Lambert said that the developer is proposing that about 21 acres be
dedicated to the City is lieu of cash park fees when only 8.8 acres
is required. The floodplain area will be given to the Eden Prairie
Foundation who will deed it back to the City. Lambert agrees with
the developer's philosophy that if money is being spent to preserve
trees, he should be getting credit for it. He added that the
developer has done a very commendable job on a difficult site.
Regarding trail connections, Lambert said that staff recommends a
connection from the cul-de-sac to the west and existing Creekview
Lane. He feels the trail should be hard surfaced in the future,
but he sees no problem with a mowed path in the interim. Lambert
said the rest of the trail system is quite extensive. One of
staffs main concerns is the height of a gazebo which may be
constructed on one of the lots and if it will be visible from the
park area. He said staff will need to know the elevation of the
drop of the hill before agreeing or disagreeing with the building
of the structure.
Baker asked what type of connection there is between Eden Valley
Park and this neighborhood. Lambert said there will be a
connection from the townhomes to the north down into this
development.
Baker asked if the trail to the park will be hard surfaced.
Lambert said the use of the trail will be monitored, but aglime
could be used.
Judy Lynblad of 15916 N. Eden Dr. said she enjoys watching the
wildlife in this area and would like it to remain this way. The
amount of wildlife has already been drastically reduced and one of
her major concerns is the natural drop between her home and her
neighbor that will be used for park access. She added that even
the best development proposal for this area will eliminate
wildlife.
APPROVED MINUTES
\. EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987
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Pat Savage of 15924 N. Eden Dr. commented that the hill the
neighborhood kids used for sliding in the winter will be gone. He
was also under the assumption that the area the developer is
speaking about belonged to the City.
Ron Hanson of 15809 S. Eden Dr. referred to correspondence dated
2/11/80 and 8/9/80 from the City and added that at that time it was
Carl Jullie's opinion that this site was at too steep a grade for a
road to be built. Hanson is disappointed with what has happened in
this area since that time.
Ron Stevens of 6309 Creek View Lane said he appreciates all the
parks Eden Prairie has, but no one in his neighborhood wants
asphalt paths. He added that there are paths in rough shape all
-. a over the City which need to be repaired and that not many people
use the paths anyway for biking or walking. Stevens said this area
still has some wildlife. He repeated again that they do not want
asphalt paths and the money should be used for other things that
are necessary in the community since it is growing so fast.
Baker asked Stevens to point out the trails he is objecting to on
the site plan. Stevens did so. Baker noted that staff is not
recommending any asphalt paths until the neighborhood requests
them.
Tom Schroeder of 6318 Creek View Lane said that his feelings are
the same as Mr. Stevens since he also does not want any asphalt
trails in this development. His main concern is that the residents
are not involved in the decision-making process. Schroeder said
his wife had to call the City Hall to find out what was going on
and that this meeting was being held. He also said that he doesn't
feel there will be a need to connect the neighborhoods and that
there will be strong neighborhood involvement when this decision is
ready to be made.
Helen Savage of 15924 N. Eden Dr. said she understood that the land
behind their home was to be kept in a natural state. She added
that they never received a notice of any neighborhood meetings.
Savage said she realizes they can't keep development out of the
area, but she likes to look at a natural area and the rooftops of
homes are not natural. She also said that the impression the
developer gave that residents are in favor of this are not true.
Kevin Devon of 16526 Creek Ridge Road feels that this area is
precious and being from South Minneapolis originally, he
appreciates the natural setting. Devon added that he has seen only
one four wheel drive vehicle in this area, but mostly runners and
walkers and he is impressed with this part of Eden Prairie.
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,!APPROVED MINUTES
_ EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987
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Bob Gilmer of 6460 Creek View Lane said that he also does not want
paved trails. Mr. Snyder pointed out the two areas on the site
plan where paved trails are proposed. Gilmer said his main concern
is emergency access, but he does not feel the access has to be
paved to handle emergency vehicles. Gilmer went on to say that at
one time the City Council said that this area was to remain
parkland. He asked is there is a possibility that the City could
buy this land and keep it as parkland.
Paul Choiniere of 15819 N. Eden Dr. said we will see the end of a
beautiful recreation area when development begins. He objects to
the creek crossing and asked what purpose it will serve. Lambert
said the reason for the crossing is so residents will have a way to
get to the neighborhood park.
Choiniere asked if the Commission is aware of future plans for
soccer fields and parking lots in the Purgatory Creek Recreation
Area. Lambert said staff did not feel that those uses were
appropriate and the plans proposed in 1975 have been amended.
Choiniere asked if it would not be a fair request to ask the
Commission to keep the area in its natural state.
CHelen Savage said she realizes that residents seem to be biased,
but they would only like things to remain as they are. The
residents have a long term interest in this area.
Shaw asked what the average lot size in this area is. Mr. Snyder
said it is approximately 18,000 to 19,000 square feet.
Shaw asked what the average cost of a home in this area will be.
Mr. Snyder said they would be in the $200,000 range.
Shaw asked Mr. Snyder to comment on the natural watershed. Mr.
Snyder showed its location on the site plan and said that water
comes in on the west side of the hill.
Shaw commented that it doesn't sound like the density is excessive.
Snyder added that most of the existing trees will remain.
Shaw asked Lambert to comment on the implication about the land
being set aside as parkland in 1980. Lambert referred to the park
plan for the years 1973-1975 and showed the area involved on the
site plan. He said a 1979 referendum proposed 18-20 acres as
parkland and the PUD in 1983 showed a similar configuration.
However, unless the City buys the land, they have to work with the
developer on what can be preserved. This developer is being very
generous in this case. The park plan is only a guide and is
subject to change.
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;APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987
Joyer said her concern is with the tree line and asked about the
houses along the creek corridor. Mr. Snyder said the entire area
was developed around the fenceline. The developer is negotiating
on eight or nine trees, but all the trees on the top of the hill
will be saved and as many as possible along the fence line will
also be saved.
Cook said he understands that the proposed trail system will be
added to the current path and construction will be minimal. Mr.
Snyder said the developer will incorporate the existing system into
a trail plan that works.
Cook asked what type of system is proposed along the Crosstown.
Lambert said there will be a sidewalk which will tie into the trail
system.
Baker asked what the price of the 12 lots will be. Mr. Snyder said
they haven't finalized pricing yet, but they will run approximately
$40,000 to $45,000 depending upon location. He added that the
developer has no desire to negotiate a sale with the City.
Baker asked for a review of the proposal for hard surface trails.
Lambert said when trails are in between homes, they are generally
C hard surfaced so they are easily defined as trails. He cited an
example of a grass trail in between homes near County Road 18 where
residents were not aware it was a path and planted shrubbery, etc.
He said they are trying to construct a hard surface path there at
this point, but the residents adjacent to the trail are opposed to
it since it would extent to the back of the lot line.
Baker asked about the loop section. Lambert said this will be
located between the townhomes and single family homes.
Shaw said he welcomes input by residents and that the most concern
seems to be with the hard surface trail which isn't proposed until
requested by the neighborhood.
MOTION: Shaw moved to recommend approval of Timber Creek North per
stoma ' recommendation with the contingency that prior staff approval
be required before the gazebo proposed on Lot 7, Block 3 is
constructed. Baker seconded the motion.
Baker suggested that the motion include an agreement between the
City forester and the developer regarding tree replacement.
Cook added that making an entrance off Creek View Road only should
be considered and that any decisions affecting the natural state of
the area should be discussed with residents. These items were
added to the motion and it passed 6-0.
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APPROVED MINUTES
C EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987
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Mr. Choiniere asked if it is required that residents be notified of
Parks and Recreation Commission meetings. Lambert said no. The
Planning Commission sends out notices on public hearings.
Schwaneer asked what can be done to change this procedure. Lambert
said this is a legal issue and it would be costly to send out the
additional notices to residents. He added that this proposal will
go back to the Planning Commission next week and will be presented
to the City Council at their July 7 meeting.
VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS, BOARDS AND STAFF
A. City Council meeting of June 3, 1987
� - There was no report.
VII. OLD BUSINESS
A. Recommendations on Edenvale Trail & Review of EAW
Refer to memo dated June 10, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of
Community Services.
Lambert said this issue was last discussed at the November meeting.
At that time, the City Council authorized the EAW on the proposed
trail system. The EAW has been completed and finds no negative
Impact on the trail. The Council requested that the Parks and
Recreation Commission discuss the EAW and it will be brought before
the Council at their July 7 meeting.
Since the November meeting, the City has begun mowing the proposed
walking path and dredging the open water in the marsh area was
completed early this year. After reviewing the EAW and finding
negative results, staff recommends the construction of a pedestrian
bridge from the end of Hillcrest Court and a mowed trail from the
bridge south to Edenvale Park. The trail will require two small
culverts be installed with a limited amount of fill at a cost of
between $1,500 to $2,000.
Shaw asked if any of the extensive roadwork that is being done will
affect this area. Lambert said no.
James Cullin of 15381 Creekside Court was present at the meeting as
the representative of 35 homeowners who signed a petition against
the proposed trail system. The petition was sent to the Minnesota
Environmental Quality Board. Mr. Cullin said he will be speaking
with the attorney representing the homeowners; however, he did not
receive a copy of the EAW nor was he notified about it. He
referred to a resolution which was adopted by the City Council in
April of 1976 which states that residents should receive a two week
( notice prior to a meeting. Cullin received the notice only three
days before. He said he has followed all City Council activity via
the newspapers and feels that the EAW is inadequate unless all
proposed development is assessed as one unit.
APPROVED MINUTES
C EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987
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Lambert replied that since there is no time limit involved on this
project, the item can be continued until the next meeting to allow
Mr. Cullin time to review the EAW. Lambert added that when the EQB
received the petition, there was no requirement for an EAW, but the
City Council decided to go ahead in order to appease the residents. I'
Gonyea asked if the EAW is public information. Lambert said yes.
Gonyea said he feels that it is appropriate that the attorney and
residents are able to see it.
After discussion, it was decided to continue this item until after
Labor Day in order to accommodate vacation time and since there is
no great urgency to make a decision.
Gonyea asked how the EAW can be obtained. Lambert said he will
provide a copy for Mr. Cullin and anyone else is welcome to see it
at the City Hall. Copies of the EAW are generally sent out after
the City Council has reviewed it and sets a 30 day time limit for
comments; however, the EAW can be reviewed prior to Council review. a
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Mr. Cullin referred to a discharge into the conservancy zone which
was reported in a recent edition of the Sailor and asked what the
discharge was. Lambert said it was on an old farm site and he did
not know what caused the discharge; however, staff suspected an old
septic system had been disturbed.
Kari Thompson of 15321 Creekside Court said the leakage occurred
around a manhole near their home. She called the City in January
and was told it was mineral water. Ms. Thompson had the water
tested and found it contained a significant amount of human fecal
bacteria. She called the City again and they covered the area with
rocks. There was still seepage around the rocks and some discharge
into Purgatory Creek.
Jerry Johnson of 15801 N. Hillcrest Ct. said that the first phase
of the proposal is to mow the path and construct a bridge. He
asked when the second phase would be done. Lambert said the
proposal is to mow the path and leave it that way as long as it
serves the need. The use of the path will be monitored and there
is no hurry to have it hard surfaced.
Johnson asked if the residents will be notified when later phases
of the proposal come up for discussion. Lambert said yes.
Johnson added that his backyard has been wetter than normal this
spring and asked what the logic is to install the culverts adjacent
to Valley View Road the way they are. Lambert said he should speak
to the City engineer about this.
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APPROVED MINUTES
�. EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987
-9-
Johnson said he thinks wildlife blinds are a super idea, but there
may be stagnant water there. He feels the area should continue to
be dredged to keep the water flowing in and out.
George Carlson of 16171 S. Hillcrest suggested that notices
regarding issues of this type include more details, but he feels
the current system is working well on this project. Lambert said
the notice that will be mailed on September 1 will be more
descriptive.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
A. Request Authorization to Hire Architect to Prepare Plans and
Specifications for Repairs of Community Center
Refer to memo dated June 10, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of
Community Services. 'x
MOTION: Shaw moved to recommend authorization to proceed with the
hiring of the architect for repair of the Community Center. Baker
seconded the motion and it passed 6-0.
B. Approve Bids for Eden Lake Elementary School Playstructure
Refer to memo dated June 11, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of
Community Services.
Lambert said the funds for the purchase of the playground equipment
will be reimbursed by the school. He added that a different
evaluation process was used and the City worked with the school to
evaluate the bids.
MOTION: Shaw moved to recommend approval of the Earl F. Anderson
proposal for $30,000 for playground equipment at Lake Eden School.
Cook seconded the motion and it passed 6-0.
C. Camp Edenwood
Paul Fjare was present at the meeting to review the Camp Edenwood
proposal. Plans show the home site as being located 70 feet in
from the north property line, but is actually 90 to 95 feet.
Lambert asked if any of the existing oaks will be removed. Fjare
said no. Approval of the proposal was to be contingent upon
connection to sanitary and sewer lines and the placement of the
house in the desired location.
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Lambert said staff's main concern was the existing oaks and since
these will not be removed, he recommends approval.
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.APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987
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Lambert asked at what point the proposal is with the Planning
Commission. Fjare said the stakes are up to show the location of
the house and the Commission may wish to visit the site. The next
step is to go before the City Council tomorrow night.
Lambert said the request is to move the building on to City park
property and to begin the process of expanding the boundaries of
Edenwood Camp on additional park property. He added that the house
will be used for staff administration and for residential use after
sewer and water connections are made and zoning is changed.
MOTION: Gonyea moved to recommend approval of the Edenwood Camp
proposal per staff recommendation. Joyer seconded the motion and
it passed 6-0.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Baker moved to adjourn the meeting at 9:55 p.m. Shaw seconded
the motion and it passed 6-0.
Respectfully submitted,
Lois Lois Boettcher
Recording Secretary
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