HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 11/18/1997 I
1997 j
a
November 18
MINUTES
Restoration Committee
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
AGENDA
PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY,NOVEMBER 18, 1996 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
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COMMISSION MEMBERS: Clairc Hilgeman, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown,
Don Jacobson,Vicki Kocning,David Kracum,John Wilson
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STUDENT MEMBERS: Jennifer Frcemycr,Melody Hasse
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and
Natural Resources, Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and
Natural Resources; Laurie ficlling, Manager of Recreation
Services
I. ROLL CALL
11. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES-NOVEMBFR 4, 1996 1
IV. PETITIONS.R .OU ESTS AND COMMUNICAILQNS
A. N=
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS I
A. Beareath 7th Addition
B. Smctan i Lakc Anaruncnts
VI. OLD BUJ 1N SS
A.
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VII. NEW SINE S
A. N=
Vill. REPORTS OF COMMISSION FRS AND STAFF
A. j�ports of Staff
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( Agenda
Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission I
Monday,November 18, 1996
Page 2
1. Reports of Community Center Manager
a. Cancellation of Open Skate for the Fdcn Prairic Hockey
Association's Th anksuiving and Christmas Tournaments
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B. ADJOURNMENT
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES
MONDAY,NOVEMBER 18,1996 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
Council Chambers
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Claire Hilgcman, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard
Brown,Don Jacobson.Vicki Koenig,David Kracum,
John Wilson
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Jennifer Freemyer, Melody Has..-
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks,Recreation and
Facilities; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and
Natural Resources: Joel Klutc, Ice Arena &
Concession Coordinator; Elinda Bahley, Recording
Secretary
1. ROL.I.GALL•
d The meeting was called to order at 7:04 p.m.by Chair Hilgcman. Commissioner
L Kracum was excused;all other members were present. i
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I1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Koenig added under Reports of Commissioners,B,Update on Staring Lake.
MOTION: Wilson moved,seconded by Brown,to approve the agenda as published.
Motion carried 6-0.
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III. APPROVAL OF MIN 1T NOVFMB ER4 1996
MOTION: Koenig moved, seconded by Wilson, to approve the Minutes of the Y
November 4, 1996 Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources
Commission as published. Motion carried 4-0-2 with abstentions by Hllgeman
and Bowman.
IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS ANDCOMMLINI ATIONS
A. Nuu*
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSA .S
A. Bearhath 7th Addition
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated November 14, 1996.from
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Approved Minutes
Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 18,1996
Bob Lambert,Director of Parks,Recreation and facilities and a fax dated
November 14, 1996, from John Vogclbachcr.
John Vogclbachcr,representing Bearpath,reviewed the revisions made at the
direction of the Parks Commission at the November 4, 1996 Parks
Commission meeting. The actual species of the boulevard trees to be planted
include Silver Maple, Pine Oak,and Ash. The trees along the west boundary
arc a mix of Norway Pine,Black Hills Spruce,and Colorado Blue Spruce.
There is a 12-inch minimum per lot allowance for each of the homes built j
within the proposed 7th Addition.
He reviewed the revised site plan. It included pulling the lot lines back off
Rice Marsh Lake providing for a 40-foot trail casement rather than a 20-foot
trail casement on the west boundary of the proposed addition. It also shows
the location of the trail and any specifics relative to the boardwalks that
would be constructed. This is actually the type of construction that they built
for their cart paths on the golf course in Bearpath so they already have a
number of those. There is a railing detailed. They don't have a railing on
theirs but it could be added depending on staffs recommendation. The DNR
would have jurisdiction over the creek crossing. They would have to apply
and receive permits from DNR to have construction of such boardwalks or
bridges,
Another issue that came up was the actual conservation casement and staff
made the recommendation to set that at the high water elevation of the lake.
The 879 contour being the conservation casement of Rice Marsh Lake and
a 50-foot conservation casement off the ordinary high water level of the
creek itself is what's proposed, and generally it's the recommendation of
staff.
'there was an issue discussed about the one lot cast of the creek,Lot 6,the ,
triangular shaped portion of the proposed 7th Addition. lie has talked with V
the Engineer about the elevation of the driveway and there was a concern
about fire access to the lot. He was not adverse to putting some restrictions
on that lot relative to what the driveway needs to be. They have four acres
over there and could put a driveway in. There's a crossing of the creek which
needs to be pennitted by the Watershed District and the DNR. This has been
done on four separate occasions in Bearpath already. The amount of
disturbance to the creek itself and disruption would be minimal and they
would like to consider maintaining their ability to place a hold on that lot.
�. Fox reviewed the staff report with the Commission. Staff does concur that
the information that was provided is more valuable than what was at the last
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Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday, November 18, 1996
meeting. It does widen out the outlot to the property width and the details
of the boardwalk is sufficient. As far as staffs recommendations on side
rails, it would depend on the elevation above the ground. There is a
recommendation in the trails portion of the Guide Plan and there is a
stipulation that if they are a certain height it would have to be side railed for
the safety of the public.
In terms of the landscaping,the materials listed does satisfy the spirit of the
landscaping. Typically the way Bearpath operates, they do have a
landscaping allowance for each one of the units and the homeowners pick the
type of materials they want. That's why a portion of it is not specified. The
879 contours of the high water level would keep that area pristine to any tree 4
cutting or any modification to it.
Regarding the private lot across the creek,the Planning Commission wanted
this project to be variance free and that was the only remaining variance for
that creek crossing. Three of the four creek crossings are for golf carts but
there is one bridge which is sufficient for service vehicles,trucks and fire
trucks. It's built up to City standards.
Koenig asked if the residents are required to put trees in or is it optional. 3
Vogclbachcr noted that part of the covenants they are required to plant a
minimum of 12 inches but they typically plant more in the range of 20
percent.
Brown asked who detcrinincs whether the deck trails over the wetlands needs
a railing. Fox replied staff determines that. Staff recommends anything 18
inches or two feet above requires a railing. Brown was concerned about the j
safety issue regarding the boardwalk edge. Fox replied they could put up a
chain link fence to keep the people from failing off the deck and into the
ravine,
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Hilgeman questioned what the tree loss is on the site. Fox noted it was about
35 percent. When the project initially came in it was about 47 percent.
Staff believes 35 percent tree loss is slightly above what they would expect
throughout the other portion of the Bearpath PUD.
I-lilgcman was concerned about the high number of conifers as opposed to
deciduous trees. Fox indicated that conifers fit the site and explained why.
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The public hearing was opened.
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Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 18,1996
Larry ( ), 19803 Magenta Bay, indicated he lives in the Winfield
Community north of Rice Marsh Lake. He commented he was opposed to
this project and any variances that would be granted. He was concerned
about the lay of the land,the green aspcct,the wetland aspect,and the beauty
of the wildlife that is present. He believes the development takes that all
away. He didn't know of any other trail aspect that goes through a marsh
land in Eden Prairie and was concerned about setting a precedent. Besides
the loss of the woodland,it would very much be an adverse effect on marsh
land on the south side of Rice Marsh Lake. He was also opposed to the
wooden boardwalks because it seems to be negative and adversely effects the
wildlife. It should not be going through the marsh land and it should be on
solid ground. If there is a variance required for this he is opposed to it.
I-lilgeman explained that there is no ordinance that says you cannot put a trail
over a marsh area,therefore,there are no variances for than. Fox noted the
requirement would be what the DNR imposes on those areas. If these
boardwalks have already been used in Bcarpath and accepted by the DNR,
they would be permissible in this type of situation.
Bob Rose, 18708 Magenta Bay,commented he has followed the process ever
since it was presented at the Planning Commission and he is disturbed with
the City's attitude. The tree loss is grossly excessive. He doesn't understand
how they can remove trees over 30 inches in diameter. It would be a shame
to sec the natural wildlife at the!ake change its natural characteristics. He
only became aware of the boardwalk issue a week ago and cannot imagine
it having any benefit to the citizens. A trail on the north side of the lake was
required by the City so why are they deviating from it by putting a
boardwalk in a marsh area. He was also concerned about the safety of
children in that area.
lie is on record that if this project goes through he feels the citizens are not 1
being heard on this project. The Planning Commission has disregarded their
comments and not listened to them. The citizens have gotten no feedback at
all. This area was designated as an open public area in 1992 in the last City
Guide Plan and he wants to know what the compelling reason is now to
change the Guide Plan. The developer bought that land knowing what the
use was going to be. The Planning Commission was opposed to Lot 6 but
voted ti.)r the project anyway. tic doesn't understand why the project went
forward.
Lambert commented that the Planning Commission and Parks Commission
i did not have a lot of choices regarding approval of this project. When a
property owner macs in,makes requests that follow all ordinances,they do
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Monday,November 18,1996
have the right to develop their property according to City ordinance. The
Commission does not have the right to say no because there are nice trees on
the property. Staff would like to see it preserved but the City's choice is
either buy it or approve it by the ordinance. The City does not have nearly
the amount of latitude that a lot of residents think they have
He reviewed the three areas where there will be boardwalks noting they
would not allow a trail to go through if it would be dangerous to the people
using it. Staff recommended approval of the plan with no variances which
means no development of Lot 6 on the cast side of the creek. He noted that
35 percent tree loss is in the range for these type of developments. It's
generally 30 to 35 percent on residential and noted that the homes in
Winfield had the same amount of trees taken out.
Hilgeman explained what a significant tree is noting that they try to preserve
70 percent of the significant trees on a site. The City requires a full
replacement that other communities don't require They might lose tree
canopy but in the end obtaining a good number of trees. The fact that it's
gone to the Planning Commission three times and the Parks Commission
twice shows that their trying to make this right and are looking at it very
closely.
A resident in the audience commented that the engineer told the residents this
land will never be developed and will remain forest. He was frustrated that
the City doesn't want to back up the words they gave him in terms of
promises to those of them who did build on the other side. There is no
accountability here and that's what disturbs him. Lambert replied that there
isn't any City staff that can"promise"you anything. The City Council can
change whatever they want. City staff is responsible to explain what the I
Guide Plan says. The City cannot afford to buy every nice piece of land in i
Eden Prairie and a lot of people think the City has bought more land than
they should.
Larry( )commented that a Dayton family recently donated a hugh track
of land for conservation purposes. lie asked the developer of Bearpath to
consider a similar action of donating that land to the community or DNR for
similar conservation purposes.
Bowman was concerned about a chain link fence and suggested a wooden
fence because it's better aesthetically.
Koenig suggested doing something similar like at Staring Lake where it
crosses Purgatory Creek as a bridge. Lambert replied they could do that and
it's safe and nice looking.
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Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 18, 1996
Jill( ), 18887 Magenta Bay,asked why the path does not follow the marsh
delineation. Lambert replied they have no ordinance that says where a path
has to go in Eden Prairie. In situations like this they try to be reasonable
when developers come in. They try to locate paths where it would not be a
problem for the people that live adjacent to those paths and try to get those
paths as faraway from the backyards as possible. If the developer is willing
to pay for the boardwalk,it would make a very acceptable path,assuming it
meets all permit requirements.
Koenig asked if staff would support having a trail at the present location
because of the backyard issue as opposed to following the 879 contour.
Lambert replied yes.
Bowman asked if the City will be designing the trail. Lambert replied no,
that the City will approve the design which has to be designed to City
standards,with Watershed District and DNR approval.
MOTION: Hilgcman moved,seconded by Jacobson,to approve Bearpath
7th Addition as per staff recommendations of November 4, 1996 with the
following additions: I)that staff recommendation#4 be tree replacement
and tail construction would be done concurrent with construction,2)that the
development be subject to the DNR permit,3)that the design and materials
used in boardwalk construction be approved by City staff,4)trail design and
construction by developer subject to City approval and DNR permit,5)trail
location to be approved by the DNR. Motion carried 6-0.
B. Smetana Lake Apartments
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated November 14, 1996,from
Stuart A.Fox,Manager of Parks and Natural Resources and a Staff Report
dated November 8, 1996,from Michael D.Franzen,City Planner.
Dave Clark, architect, reviewed the development proposal with the ,
Commission noting they are looking at upgrading the roadways. He
reviewed the site plan indicating that the buildings are set up in the middle
of the site. There are 275 units in two buildings with an underground garage.
Ile discussed the landscaping aspect of the project noting the site is going to
require significant grading. He explained the grading plan. They arc looking
at keeping the area as simple as possible. They are positioning the parking
area in a way to create a private road along the south side of the lake. They
want to keep it in a country road atmosphere. The area along the lake will
be kept natural and 75 feet along the creek edge will not be touched at all.
The 150-tlx�t setback from the building will be set up as a preservation area.
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Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 18,1996
Natural landscaping will he used throughout the area. Formal landscaping
will be done in the center of the site.
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Fox reviewed the staff report with the Commission.He noted that 26 of the i
49 significant trees are to be removed giving a tree loss of 51 percent. The
developer has submitted a detailed landscape plan that adequately covers the
221 inches of tree replacement required under the Tree Ordinance plus the
landscaping required for the multi story apartment buildings. The majority
of the trees arc 12-14 inches in diameter,which would indicate that this area
at one time was pasture land and in recent years has started growing scattered
even aged trees.The primary trees on the site are Elm and Ash. There are
scattered areas ofsignificant trees that will not be impacted by the proposed
development. These are along the westerly side adjacent to Nine-Mile Creek
and in the southwestern corner adjacent to Lake Smetana and the creek
outlet.
There arc two NURP ponds on the site to handle the storm water runoff.
They are designed to take runoff from the buildings and parking areas and
!f precipitate out solids prior to water discharged into Nine-Mile Creek. The
L. Engineering Department is checking to make sure they are of appropriate
size and construction according to the Watershed District.
There is a shorcland setback and the buildings arc set back from both the
crock and from Smetana Lake itself. The only exception is the NURP pond
does fall within those areas. However,the DNR has commented on that and `
do not object to the location of the NURP pond as long as additional wetland j
area is not disturbed in conjunction with its construction or other grading II
activities.
Staff recommended that an eight foot wide bituminous trail be placed along
the south portion of the drive and continue all the way up to Valley View
Road and be continued as far easterly as possible. There is one remnant
piece of land which is not being purchased and the trail would probably be
located in front of the house in order to connect to the existing trail to the
cast. There is access on the Hoyt development to the cast where the trail
comes in. The trail would be built concurrent with the development of this
project.
Staffalso recommended that scenic conservation casements be placed at the
841 elevation which is the 100-year floodplain. This project was reviewed
at the Planning Commission on November 12 and was approved on a 6-0
( vote per recommendations of the Planning Staff Report dated Novcmbcr 8,
1996.
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Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 18, 1996
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Hilgcman asked if the outlot would bu u,ed for public access. Fox replied
that it's possible. It's a real marshy flat area and it might not be suitable for
a boat launch. It's not the best place on the lake for that.
Koenig asked for the amount of land in the casement. Lambert replied it's
a little under five acres.
Bowman questioned where the best place would be to put a public access.
Lambert explained the best location on the map,which is west of the Frank
Smetana Sr. house.
Jacobson asked how many garage spaces there arc. Clark replied 275
underground spaces and there will be 275 parking spaces above ground. The
impervious surface comes out to 37 percent.
Fox explained this is a situation where there are certain areas they cannot
build on because of the shoreland setbacks. This forces the development into
a smaller location.
Koenig asked if the 80 additional inches of landscaping required is figured
into the required 221 caliper inches of trees. Fox replied the 80 inches is in
addition to the 221 inches.
Koenig commented there are two beautiful Oaks tit the very top corner of the
property and was concerned if they arc going to be saved. Clark replied no
because there is too much grading to be done.
Wilson asked what the cash park fees arc on this project. Lambert said it's
$1.400 per unit so the City will get$395,000.
Brown inquired about the rent amounts. Clark said they will range from
$800 to$1,600 for one to two bedrooms.
Hilgcman commented she has mixed feelings about the development. This
development will change everything about this site from tees on it to the ,
grade of the land. She alto didn't like the fact that there is 90 percent of
Ninc-Mile Creek frontage and the huge tree loss. She thought the tree
replacement plan was wondzrful and very easy to read. She doesn't like an
impervious surface but understands that the impervious surface was strung
out along the apartments which makes it less obtrusive. Every time she
found something she didn't like about it there was a reason she felt she was
behind it. However,it is a much better plan than what could have been there.
There arc a lot of variances but she could not think of a better land use that
would preserve more of the natural features.
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Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 18,1996
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Koenig concurred with Hilgeman's comments. She was happy to sec
apartments going in with a lot of rentals. It's a much better use than
industrial and that would have had much more impervious surface. She
stood at the 915-foot point on the site and indicated it is an incredible view
to lose but understands the developer has no choice. Still she hates to sec
another hill lost. I
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Jacobson asked if these hills were manmade or natural. Fox replied they arc
natural hills.
Hilgcman was concerned about how much grading would be going on within
the shore impact zone. Fox said the only grading would be for construction E
of the private drive. Clark commented that most of the grading will be minor
and will be toward the area where the NURP pond is.
Bowman expressed concern about how they might get public access to
Smetana Lake and would like something as a condition of the public
casement.Clark indicated that Marcella Smetana's house is going to remain
and there will be an casement provided for her through their property as long
as she likes. It is a public casement access plus the new walkway will be
included in that as well. They are not going to lose the opportunity for
public access.
MOTION: Brown moved,seconded by Wilson,to approve Smetana Lake
Apartments project with respect to the staff recommendations of November "
8, 1996.and that a condition of the public casement is to retain public use to
Outlot A if a public access is ever developed on Outlot A. Motion carried }
6-0.
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V1. OLD BUSINESS i
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A. None,
VI1. NEW BUSINESS -
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A. None.
Vill. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Staff
B. Update of Staring Lak
Koenig commented she spoke with Jeff Johnson this morning. htc went out
and looked at the site again and he feels the second two rows of silt fencing
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Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 18,1996
( they put up is adequately keeping the silt out of the creek and underneath the
walkway. He does feel the area should be restored and it should have been
done weeks ago. It still has not been restored. He said he would send
direction to Pulte to get down there and do it. The sanitary sewer is in and
the restoration should have taken place, t
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She also asked Jeff Johnson about Mitchell Village which has damage to the
wetland on the silt fencing where they put in a sanitary sewer. He initially
said they should restore it and then said he was not that worried about that 1
area. She noted that the silt fencing in the Centex area is still down.
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Koenig asked what the status is of the motion about red tagging. Lambert
indicated it was sent to the Council in the FYI packet.
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Fox noted they arc going to present to Pultc that if they don't fix it by the r
weekend the project would be red tagged and this was recommended by Jeff t
Johnson.
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Koenig said she would like information on future projects as to whether or
not a sanitary sewer has to go in and create disturbance to a wetland.
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Brown expressed concern about follow-ups to these projects as to whether
developers arc doing what they're supposed to be doing. The City needs to
have a better wary of doing this.
1. Reports of Community Center Manager
a. Cancellation of Open Skate for the Eden Prairie Hockey 1
Association's Thanksolvine and Christmas Tournaments j
Staff referred the Commission to a mono dated November
12, 1996, from Joel Klutc, Ice Arena & Concession
Coordinator.
Klutc stated he would like approval from the Commission for
the cancellation of open skate for the hockey tournaments.
The tournaments generate more revenue than open skate and
it's only for a couple of weekends out of the year. They try
to do this as minimal as possible. He reviewed the times that
open skate would be cancelled.
Koenig asked how many people would be inconvenienced
that would really want to use it. Klutc replied there arc no
( records to show that because this has been done for the last
eight years.
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Jacobson was concerned that this request is coming to the
Commission 1 1 days before the tournaments start and the
tournaments were determined a year ago. Next year he
would like the Commission notified of this in August.
Bowman asked if the City gets many complaints to the
cancellation. Lambert said he has never had a call in all these
years.
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Wilson would like the dates for next year's tournament as
soon as possible so that the Commission is not put in this
situation again.
MOTION: Brown moved, seconded by Hilgeman, to
approve the request for cancellation of open skating during
the hockey tournaments. Motion carried 6.0.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Koenig moved,seconded by Brown,to adjourn the meeting. Motion
carried 6-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:20 p.m.
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