HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 10/06/1997 1997
OCTOBER 6
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MINUTES
Parks, Recreation & Natural
Resources Commission
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
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AGENDA
PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY,OCTOBER 6, 1997 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Brown, Chair, Frantz Corneille, Claire Hilgeman
Don Jacobson,Vicki Koenig,Glenn Stolar,John Wilson
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and
Natural Resources; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and
Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation
Services
I. ROLL-CA"
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11. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
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III. APPROVAL OF-ly"INUTPG-SEPTEMBPR 15. 1997
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IV, i FTITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. i ctition for Skatine Rink from *wndham Knoll Nciehborhood
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V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Best }SIX
B. Villas of Purgatoa Creek
V1, OLD BUSINESS
A. Proposed Ice Rental Rates for 1998-99
B. Skatinu Instructors Paying for Developmental lec
VII. NEW BUSINESS
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A. Oak Point Pool hours
B. Relocation of Archcry Ranee
V111. ADJOURNMENT
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY,OCTOBER 6, 1997 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER
8080 MITCI-IELL ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Brown, Chair-, Frantz Corneille, Claire Hilgcman,
Don Jacobson,Vicki Koenig,Glenn Stolar,John Wilson
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A.Lambert,Director of Parks,Recreation and Natural
Resources;Julie Hoeft,Aquatic and Fitness Coordinator;Joel
Klutc,Ice Arena&Concession Coordinator; Elinda Bahlcy,
Recording Secretary
1. !ROLL CALL
Chair Brown called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
It. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Frantz added under Old Business,item C.Edcndalc Multi Flornes.
MOTION: Wilson moved,seconded by Stolar,to approve the agenda as amended. Motion
carried 7-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES-SEPTEMBER 1 c 1997
Hilgcman noted on page 7,third paragraph, fifth sentence,change get to give. She also
noted in the same paragraph, the last sentence should read... Now the City will be held
hostage because of this and will have difficulties charging for second season.
Koenig made the following corrections; page 4,first paragraph,fifth sentence,change.,, 110
more trees, to 110 more inches; page 2, fifth paragraph, second sentence, change... 110
additional trees,to 110 additional inches of trees.page 4,fourth paragraph,the last sentence
should read...They will work with staff for species of trees and will replace with a majority
of the tree species being removed,page 6,last paragraph, fifth sentence,change...or field
conditions, to on field conditions; page 10, fifth paragraph, fifth sentence, change... not
significant trees,to not all significant trees,page 13.first paragraph,second sentence should
read... Lambert replied they increased the ice rink fees this year.
Stolar noted on page 6,the end of the last sentence in the motion should read..,existing trees
rather than tree mass. Fle also noted on page 4,the fourth sentence should read...Zillar said
about a quarter and Stolar corrected him that it's more like half. Zillar said they arc
removing 100 percent deciduous.
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MOTION: Stolar moved,seconded by Hilgeman,to approve the minutes of the September
15, 1997 Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission as amended.
Motion carried 7-0.
IV. PETITIONS.REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. Petition for Skating Rink from Wyndham Knoll Neighborhood
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 30, 1997 from Stuart A.
Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources;a letter dated September 22. 1997
from Deanna Bunkelman;a memo dated November 29, 1994 from Stuart A. Fox,
Manager of Parks and Natural Resources;and a memo dated September 14, 1989
from Stuart A. Fox,Manager of Parks and Natural Resources.
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Lambert reviewed the history of this request with the Commission noting they did
establish a mini skating rink at Wyndham Knolls in 1999. In 1994 staff brought the
recommendation to the Commission to stop flooding the mini skating rink in
Wyndliam Knolls Park because there had been indication of very little use. Staff
determined the use by observing the number of tracks made by the blades when
people skate. Since 1994,staff has received few phone calls requesting why the rink 1
was closed. The use of mini rinks have rapidly diminished to the point where staff
does not recommend installing them in the community because of the cost as
compared to the amount of use they receive. i
Deanna Bunkelman, 6520 Leander Circle, said she put the petition together and
petitioned for names. She received over 100 signatures from a quarter of the
neighborhood. There were many people not home but she only went around once
and did not cover the entire neighborhood. As of three years ago,there were not as
many children in the neighborhood as there are now. Right now in the Wyndham
Knolls Crest area there are 78 children ages 2-12, and 32 children over 13,and 7
children born within the last year. They are proposing another chance to have the
mini skating rink and if it's not cost effective in a year,then they would be willing ,
to discuss it for the next year.
Todd Dilly,6476 Matthew Circle,was concerned about the one mile radius of homes
to skating rinks.'There are at least seven kids on his block in third grade or less that
play hockey and he knows they would love to have a rink in the park.
I lilgcman commented one of the reasons mini skating rinks are not used is because
they are not lighted and that limits people to school release days and weekends.
Janet Hammond,6512 Leander Circle,noted there are nine kids on her block under
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the age of five that stay home during the day and would probably get some use out
of the rink especially in the morning hours when there's nothing to do. Tile rink
would only be two houses away from her and it would be easier than driving a mile
away.
Bunkelman noted there is a day care center near Tom Thumb that would probably
utilize the rink. She hoped the rink could at least get plowed on the weekends. The '
parking lot not getting plowed has to factor into the use because they can't use it if i
it's not being plowed.
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Hammond commented there's no reason why people would not mind shoveling the
snow themselves when there's a light snow. !
Mary Jo Brunner,6507 Matthew Circle,explained staffs monitoring of the rink may
not have been correct because many kids play broom ball which does not leave track
marks. She said she is involved with youth groups and would like to bring them
over there to skate. She noted there is a big interest from the neighborhood for this
rink.
( Lambert commented when you have maintenance staff doing nothing but flooding
rinks on a daily basis,they can tell pretty easily the kind of use that the rinks are
getting. The numbers are based on the amount of shavings there are and blade
tracks. Staff could support approving the request but they need a better way to
record the use and make comparisons of this rink to other rinks.
I-lilgcman supported giving the rink another try but only for a one year trial.
Koenig said the neighborhood has had an adequate opportunity in five years of
having a rink to decide whether or not they want to use it and she doesn't believe
they need any additional trial time to determine that.
Stolar supported a year trial basis for the rink and suggested putting a clipboard out
at the rink for people to sign as a way of calculating the usage.
Frantz stated staff needs to establish some kind of comparative use criteria and didn't
think they could do it in one year, fie suggested two years to establish a trend.
Lambert said one year would be sufficient to compare it to the two other mini rinks.
They would not have a year to year pattern established for several years..
Koenig said she was comfortable with a one year trial period because this
neighborhood has a background regarding use of the rink.
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MOTION: Wilson moved,seconded by Stolar,to direct staff to put in a mini rink
at Wyndham Knolls neighborhood fora one year period subject to review by this
organization and staff input;and to direct staff to establish comparative use level
criteria to be presented at the Commission. Motion carried 7-0.
V. DEVELOPMFNT PROPOSALS
A. Bey
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated October 2, 1997 from Stuart A.Fox,
Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; a staff report dated August 8, 1997,
September 5, 1997 and September 19, 1997 from Scott Kipp,City Planner.
Dave Clark, representing Best Buy,reviewed the concept plan and explained they
have worked with City staff for the last 12 months and all the possible organizations
involved. They have been to the Planning Commission three times and each time
revised the plan. The entire site is land blocked meaning g it's not
Mile Creek Watershed District, part of the Nine
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There is an existing dirt roadway put through the wetland by the previous owner.
They would like to maintain that roadway and bring it up to City standards and use
it as a main access back to the loading dock area.
He explained Best Buy indicated they would not remove the recreational facilities
on the site and have chosen to reduce the building size from 90,000 to 70,000 square
feet. The hall fields are a reflection of how Best Buy treats their employees and it
creates a friendly atmosphere.
He reviewed the landscaping plan noting they have developed it with staff and have
taken steps to modifying that plan. They have gone one step further and brought in
a wetland consultant to help them with the plan. They want to really change and
augment the wctland area will,plantings that are even more natural. There will be ,
a variety ofcolors,grasses,and plantings to augment the wctland areas. They will
maintain 45 percent of the natural areas of the site.
The plan indicates 1.39 acres of wctland will be impacted by the development and
they have agreed to only work in the areas of Type 2 wctland which is a wet
meadow. State statute would require two acres of mitigation for
filled but they are going to mitigate every acre that is four acres for every acre they till. The off site
mitigation will take place in Winthrop,Minnesota. It's always best to mitigate on
site; however, mitigation only works if the conditions are correct for mitigation.
'['here was no area on the site that would mitigate so it has to be done off site. After
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mitigation there is a three year period that the site must be inspected and approved.
At any time during those three years it fails to meet requirements of the mitigation,
they have to do it over again.
They have extended the trail along Flying Cloud Drive. The plan is for a boardwalk ?
that will go through the wetlands which will take people through there. There will
be identification markers to give some educational information and stakes set up to
identify the different areas.
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Lambert stated there arc 3,014 diameter inches of trees on the entire site and this
concept shows the removal of 372 diameter inches which comes out to a 12 percent
loss of significant trees. The tree replacement required is a total of 137 caliper
inches of landscape material.
A NURP pond is scheduled to be constructed with phase 11 parking,which was not
reviewed at the Commission because it did not impact any natural resource areas.
A second pond would be constructed north of the phase III parking to collect parking
lot runoff and pretreat it prior to discharge. Both of these NURP ponds require
review for storm water calculations and acceptance by the City Engineering staff a
( prior to construction. Staff recommended approval. i
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Koenig asked how many acres does the knoll near the recreational facilities
represent. Clark said about 20 acres. Approximately 46 percent of the 45 acres will
stay natural. Koenig commented she was impressed with the landscaping plan, j
Clark said they submitted a landscaping plan that will cover both tree replacement
and the trees required,and these plans will more than exceed those required. They
me now asking staff to work with them to trade some of the trees for different
plantings to perhaps increase the quality of the landscaping area.
Brown was concerned that the road goes right through the wctland and asked if the
road could be moved to another location. Clark explained why it was not feasible
to put the road at any other location. -,
Koenig asked for an estimate on the amount of traffic on the road through the
wetland. Clark replied it's primarily to access the parking lot in the back with 250
spaces and the loading dock area.
Jacobson asked if the public will be allowed to go through the wetland area. Clark
said it is private property but suspected people will use that on weekends and week
nights.
Stolar noted he would not be voting on this project due to a conflict of interest.
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Koenig thanked Best Buy for cooperating with staff and reducing the wetland
alteration down to 1.4 acres.
Jacobson was concerned about cash park fees. Lambert said there is no subdivision
of land so there are no cash park fees.
MOTION: Wilson moved, seconded by Hilgeman, to accept staffs
recommendation for the Best Buy site. Motion carried 6-0-1 with one abstention
by Stolar.
B. Villas of Purgatory Creek
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated October 2, 1997 from Stuart A. Fox,
Manager of Parks and Natural Resources;and a staff report dated September 5, 1997
from Michael D.Franzen,City Planner.
Bill Griffith, representing Hartford Capital Corporation,said this is a 15 lot single
family subdivision on the north side of Purgatory Creek and south of Sunnybrook
Road. The site is zoned R I-13.5 and the average lot size is 18,000 square feet. The
project has been designed to be built without variances and no alterations to the
environmental features on the site. The proponent has agreed to dedicate Outlot A
to the City and the area outside of Outlot A will be under a conservation casement.
Approximately 40 percent of the site will be near a conservation casement or in
dedication.
'rrce loss is 33.9 percent which is consistent with the surrounding developments and
115 caliper inches of trees will be replaced on the site. The replacement will consist
of 38 three inch diameter trees. Staff suggested the developer set those trees five feet
away from the right-of-way to not create it traffic safety problem. The tree
replacement will be consistent with the City Code.
All of the lots meet the required size and lot width requirements of the City
Ordinance. In addition, a number of changes have been made to the site plan
including moving the pond Iacilitics and retention pond outside of the shore impact
zone. No alteration is proposed within the 50 foot shore impact zone. The
Comprehensive Guide Plan calls for up to 2.5 units per acre and this project is 1.53
units per acre.
Lambert said there are 753 diameter inches of significant trees on the site. A total
of 19 trees would be removed which would total 255 diameter inches. This results
in a tree loss of 33.8 percent. City Code requires mitigation and replacement totaling
115 caliper inches of trees. The proposed landscaping plan indicates a total of 115
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caliper inches of trees that would be placed along the street boulevard in the form of
38'.hrce inch diameter trees. Staff recommended those trees be similar species to the
other trees located in the area.
A NURP pond is proposed to collect the street and driveway runoff from this project
and pretreat the water prior to discharge into Purgatory creek. All of the lots meet
the required size and lot width requirements of the City Ordinance. There arc no
requests for variances on this site. The proponent has agreed to dedicate 2.7 acres
to the City and staff believes it's important for the City to have partnership with the
flood plain area of Purgatory Creek.
Currently, with the upgrading of Sunnybrook Road there is a sidewalk proposed
along the north side of Sunnybrook Road. No sidewalk or trails are required within
the interior of this proposed development. The project was reviewed at the
September 22. 1997 Planning Commission meeting and was approved on a 6-0 vote.
Staff recommended approval of this project.
1-lilgeman commented this project will not impact any wetland areas but personally
considers 1,560 cubic yards of fill on the flood plain to impact the area and the
wetland a rca. Perry Ryan,Ryan Engineering,showed on the map where the fill will
take place. He noted the amount of fill they arc using is in accordance with the
guidelines and they are only utilizing 40 percent of allowable fill in that area.
Hilgeman was concerned that the backyards of Lots 2,3,4,5 and 6 arc going to be in
the conservation casement area. Griffith said the backyards arc in the conservation
casement area. It's not unusual to have a statement attached to the document to the
affect they can use the backyard but not alter the landscape, change the drainage
pattern or change the vegetation on the site. The casement would be negotiated with
City staff in a way to allow property owners some use but also protect the City's
interest as well
Hilgeman expressed concern that the homeowners may not fully understand what it
conservation casement means. Lambert noted they are recommending the
installation of permanent posts to remind people where that conservation casement
is and have it marked with the words,conservation casement.
Ryan explained on previous projects they modified the conservation casement to
give a minimum of 25 feet. In this case it would be the same idea to modify it to
insure they have 25 feet and the conservation easement document would reflect that.
I Iilgcman suggested more than 25 feet because they previously allowed 25 feet and
it wasn't enough. She would be comfortable with 50 feet. Lambert said the goal of
staff is to try to give the property owners as much use of their backyards as possible.
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They want to keep all the lots equal but they will work with the developer on giving
the property owners as much use as possible.
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Griffith commented they had discussion at the Planning Commission regarding Lots
3 and 4, that a person wanting a backyard would not buy either of them.
Homeowners will select the house they want to buy, and if they don't want a
backyard and would like a view of the wetlands,it may be at a premium price. Not
everyone wants a backyard.
Stolar was concerned that the tree replacement consists of three inch diameter trees
and asked if they can increase the diameter. They have to start looking at not the
total number of inches being replaced but how it's being replaced. Lambert
explained there is an ordinance that specifics the minimum size of the trees,the types
of trees,ctc. Flilgcman noted a lot of trees do not do well when they are planted over
a certain diameter.
Koenig commented she agrees with conservation casements as long as they work.
She doesn't want to sec grass all the way down to the water on those lots.
Stolar concurred with Koenig and noted he was only 6. y supporting this because of the
donation that helps keep open space in Eden Prairie.
MOTION: Wilson moved,seconded by Jacobson,to accept staffs recommendation
for the Villas at Purgatory Creek following staffs recommendation and especially
relating to the staff input relative to the conservation casements on the site. Motion
carried 7-0.
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VI. OLD BUSINESS
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A. Proposed Ice Rental Rates for 1998-99
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 29, 1997 from Joel Klutc,
Ice Arena&Concession Coordinator. +1 '
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Lambert explained at the last meeting staff made a recommendation for proposed ice
rink rates for 1998 and the Commission requested staff to go back and prepare a two
year ice rental rate increase with a lower 1998 rate than originally proposed.
Klutc reviewed the proposed rates for 1998 and 1999 and discussed the rationale for
those increases. He noted currently the ice arena is operating at a$66.000 deficit.
In 1999 they will still be operating in a deficit due to expenses being higher at that
time. They will be losing$16,000 as a result of these proposed rate changes from
the original recommendation.
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Lambert explained why the operating costs and deficit will be higher as each year
passes. lie noted it will only continue and they arc not going to catch up. It's going
to get more and more expensive to operate that building because as it gets older
maintenance and repair arc increasing.
Corneille said he agreed with Lambert in principle but thinks there's a difference
between maintenance costs versus operating costs. Capital costs should come from
somewhere else and operating costs should be in line with the increase.
Hilgcman commented if they charged for second season sports the City would have
received$20.000 which could have offset the$16.000 they're losing here.
Lambert noted there will be a special meeting with the City Council to discuss the
philosophical question of how to charge fees. The City's philosophy has been that
Eden Prairie will be comparative to other communities' use fees. Staff has always
operated under that philosophy and will continue to do that unless the City Council
directs them to change.
Lambert commented this is the recommendation of what staff believed the
( Commission wanted. This is not the staff recommendation and they arc still of the
mind that the$130.00 per hour should be charged to try to meet operating costs per
direction of the City Council. He noted the workshop with the City Council and the
Parks Commission will be the third Tuesday in November at 6:30 p.m. It will be
helpful to get direction from the Council regarding strategics and philosophy.
Wilson commented the rates proposed are fair and just but he would not be voting
on this issue.
MOTION: Hilgeman moved,seconded by Corneille,to approve the proposed ice
rental rates through 1999 as per Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources
Commission memorandum of September 29, 1997. Motion curried 5-0-2 with two 1
abstentions by Stolur and Wilson.
B. Skating Instructors Paying for Developmental Ice
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 17, 1997 and July 22,
1996 from Joel Klutc, Ice Arena&Concession Coordinator.
Klute presented background information regarding this issue, 'file recommendation
is for skating instructors who teach it minimum of four hours a week in the Learn-to-
Skate program, be allowed to teach on developmental ice time free of charge. He
noted that many of the skating instructors teach in the Learn-to-Skate program and
when the Community Center began charging them,staff experienced a changeover
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in skating instructors. This year has been extremely difficult to find and hire quality
instructors for the program. Hopefully,this recommendation will help bring back
some inventory of good instructors.
The Learn-to-Skate program is offered for two hours on Mondays and five hours on 1
Saturdays during the fall and winter seasons,and four hours on Tuesdays and two
hours on Thursdays during the summer.
Stolar asked how many complaints were received regarding the Learn-to-Skate
program. Klute replied they received 26 complaints based on the fact it had
something to do with the inventory.
MOTION: Koenig moved, seconded by Hilgeman, to approve staffs
recommendation of September 17, 1997 regarding skating instructors paying for
developmental ice. Motion carried 7-0.
C. Edendale Multi Homes
Brown commented he was very disturbed when passing Mitchell Road and Valley
View Road that the builder was not doing what was approved. He said Lambert
indicated the City has been on it and they have already taken action.
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Lambert said on October I, Mike Franzen wrote a letter to Jim Dcanovic, the
developer on that site,and noted that the Parks Commission required this project to
save the tree mass along Mitchell Road,south of Valley View,according to the staff
report. There is a staff recommendation to replant a 20 foot wide area according to
the attached plan by Stu Fox.
He noted that between the Parks Commission meeting and the Second Reading of
the City Council,Dcanovic had reported to the City Council on it number of issues.
The Parks Commission met on this project after they had a First Reading of the City
Council. When this came back for a Second Reading, Dcanovic said it didn't appear
that they financially could build that retaining wall but they will try to retain as ,
much of that vegetation as possible without building a retaining wall
As far as staffare concerned,he still had a commitment to maintain the vegetation
and they have not received a response back from him. Staff will keep the
Commission informed of any developments.
VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. Oak Point Pool Hours j
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Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated October 6, 1997 from Julie Hoeft,
Aquatic and Fitness Coordinator.
Hoeft explained in February of 1997, with the implementation of the
fall/winter/spring head quard positions,accurate pool logs were kept. This enabled
staff to more accurately count the numbers of swimmers at the after school open
swim on Tuesday and Friday and the evening open swims Monday thru Thursday.
She reviewed the statistics that support staffs recommendation that afternoon open
swim on Tuesdays and Fridays from 3:00-5:00 p.m.and evening open swim from
6:30-9:00 p.m.on Tuesday and Thursday be canceled. This will open more pool
time for rental and generate more revenue during under utilized times. The most
popular and heavily utilized open swim times will remain available to the public.
Staff will monitor the need for additional open swim hours which can be added in
the future.
MOTION: Wilson moved, seconded by Corneille, to approve staffs
recommendation to alter the Oak Point open swim hours. Motion carried 7-0.
B. Relocation of Archery RunLe
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 29, 1997 from Bob JJJ
Lambert, Director of Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources.
MOTION: Hilgeman moved,seconded by Stolar,to accept staffs recommendation
of the relocation of the archery range per the memo dated September 29, 1997.
Motion carried 7-0.
Vill. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Hilgeman moved, seconded by Jacobson, to adjourn the meeting. Motion
carried 7-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
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