HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 11/04/1996 1996
Novemb er 4
MIND
TES
Parks, Recreation & Natural
Resources Commission
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
AGENDA f
PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY,NOVEMBER 4, 1996 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
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COMMISSION MEMBERS: Claire Flilgeman, Chair: Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, '
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Don Jacobson,Vicki Kocning,David Kracum,John Wilson
STUDENT MEMBERS: Jennifer Frecmyer,Melody Hasse
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks. Recreation and
Natural Resources: Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and
Natural Resources, Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation
Services i
1. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES-O .TOB,-R 21. 199E
IV. PETITIONS,REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. None Y
V. DEVELOPMENT'PROPOSALS
A. Bcamath 7th Addition
VI. 01-D BUSINESS
A. Community Center Pool Recommendation
VII. NEW BUSINESS ,
A. Mons;
Vill. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. Rcnorts of Commissioners
(" I. Follow-up on Previous Development Pro o�g
IX ADJOURNMENT
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES
MONDAY,NOVEMBER 4, 1996 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
Council Chambers
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Claire Flilgeman, Chair, Bruce Bowman,
Richard Brown, Don Jacobson,Vicki Koenig,
David Kracum,John Wilson
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Melody Hasse,Jennifer Frccmycr
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambcrt, Director of Parks,
Recreation and Facilities; Stuart A. Fox,
Manager of Parks and Natural Resources,
Elinda Bahley,Recording Secretary
I. ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:05 p.m. by Acting Chair Richard Brown.
Commissioners Bowman and Hilgcman were excused. all other members were ;
present.
The Commission welcomed Jennifer Frccmycr as a new student representative.
IL APPROVAL OF AGENDA
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MOTION: Wilson moved, seconded by Koenig, to approve the Agenda as t
published. Motion carried 5-0.
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Ill. APPROVAL OF MINUTES-OCTOBER 21.1996 t
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Koenig noted on page 7, the second sentence should read... Lambert indicated.
Koenig corrected the motion on page R where it reads...to discuss the possibility of �.3
accepting changes...,change that to read...to discuss the possibility of a trail system.
MOTION: Koenig moved, seconded by Wilson, to approve the Minutes of the
October 21, 1996 Gdcn Prairie Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
as amended. Motion carried 5-0.
IV. PETITIONS.REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
i A. LY411s
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I Approved Minutes
Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 4, 1996
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Bearpath 7th Addition
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated October 31, 1996, from }
Stuart A.Fox,Manager of Parks and Natural Resources;a staff report dated
October 11, 1996,from Michael D.Franzen,City Planner;and a staff report
dated September 20, 1996, from Michael D. Franzen,City Planner,
John Vogelbachcr,project manager for the 13carpath development,presented
his development proposal to the Commission giving background information.
The request is to bring in an additional 39 lots for the proposed 7th Addition
and the property is located just directly south of Rice Marsh Lake. There is
a connecting road to I3earpath Trail on the southern portion of the proposal.
They have gone through a number of different meetings with the Planning
Commission and this plan has gone through three different revisions relative
to the amount of density of lots along the shoreline of Rice Marsh Lake. A
lot has been removed on the cast side of the creek. The only waiver
requested by the Planning Commission is for a private street. There arc no
other waivers requested and the Planning Commission approved the proposal
unanimously with one abstention.
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The City indicated tree replacement to be 1,530 caliber inches. The
developer has submitted it proposal for three different areas to establish this
requirement. The first plan is for 420 inches of boulevard trees. There is
4,800 lineal feet of boulevard,and 3 %inch shade trees with 40 feet on the
center. The second plan includes the minimum replacement of 12 inches per
lot for 38 lots which equals 456 inches. The trail landscaping includes 1,000
lineal feet of 12-14 feet tall evergreens with six feet on center for a total of
830 inches. The total replacement totals 1.706 inches which is more than the
requirement by the City. A tree replacement plan/landscape plan was not
included in the packets but this is an outline of the plan for tree replacement. ,
The developer asked that the Commission take into consideration all that
13earpath has done over the last three years. They have complied with the
requirements of the developer's agreement of approximately 9.000 caliber
inches on site and still have one more addition to go. They currently have
planted in excess ot'2,000 additional caliper inches of trees which is over and
beyond what was required.
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Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 4, 1996
Fox reviewed the staff report with the Commission. This proposal is for 39
single family lots and one outlot on 69.7 acres of land immediately north of
the Bcarpath PUD. Staff found tree loss to be about 35A percent. When
calculations were done, it was a little different than when it was submitted
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due to some accounting errors. Staff found 516 trees on the plan of which
19 were questionable as to whether or not they were on the property. They
settled on 497 total trees for a total of 9,167 diameter inches. Of that total
there would be 185 trees with 3.250 diameter inches lost due to construction
and grading. Therefore,the developer is required to replace 1,530 caliber
inches of trees through replacement which the developer has indicated would
be in excess of that. Fox noted he received a fax of the outline of the tree
replacement plan on Friday afternoon and has not had a chance to review it
in total.
The developer has proposed to utilize the existing lowland area in the interior
portion of the project as a NURP pond. The outflow from this proposed area
would go into the wetland immediately south of the NURP pond and then be
linked to the storm water system for the existing Bcarpath PUD via a
r concrete pipe carrying the runoff water to the south of the proposed project.
l The original plan, in terms of shorcland impact, had a number of lots that
required waivers which is why this project was continued at the Planning
Commission, All those waivers were removed with the exception of an
access waiver for Lots 6,Block 3 which is for access to a driveway 500 feet
long.
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There is currently an eight foot wide bituminous trail constructed along the
westerly side of the project which runs along the golf course between
Bcarpath and the City of Chanhassen Lakeview Apartments. It ends in the C
southwesterly corner of this proposed development. Staff recommended that i
the trail be continued through that outlot on the westerly edge and meandered
through the upper portion of the project, The question is whether or not it t�,=
would be appropriate to put a sidewalk through on the streets and allow
pedestrian traffic to come through the streets and access through that one J
cul-de-sac. Staff was concerned about running the trail through the backyard
of homes. They were concerned about how to handle the casement for the
trail, how to get across the wetland areas,and what's going to be the most
direct route for pedestrians to get there.
Regarding the scenic conservation easement and outlot, there is a lot of
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Approved Minutes
Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 4, 1996
property along the northerly edge which has delineated wetland in there.
There is no impact there from the development of the homes. Staff
recommended that the high water mark for Rice Marsh Lake,which is 878,
from that point toward the lake body be set aside with a conservation
casement to insure there would be no cutting,clearing,or development on
those lands. The issue of Outlot A has not been resolved as to whether this
would be a piece of land dedicated to the City or gifted to the City i❑the
future. The majority of Outlot A is unavailable since it is in the floodplain
of the lake.
The project was reviewed by the Planning Commission on September 23 and
continued because of the number of waivers in the original proposal. It was
returned to the Planning Commission October 28 and was approved on a 3-0-
1 vote. The vote was based on staff recommendations outlined in the
October I I planning staff report.
Koenig was concerned about the type and species of trees included in the tree
replacement plan. Vogelbacher replied what is currently in Bearpath are
lindens, sugar maples, and oak which arc boulevard trees. He would
probably mix those trees again in the subdivision. There would be about 160
coniferous trees 12-14 feet tall running right along the western boundary
along the backyards of homes that back up to Chanhassen.
Koenig asked about the removal of one of the lots cast of Riley Creek.
Vogelbacher stated it's a four acre lot which is a rather unusual shaped piece.
It is,in effect,a result of the impact of the 212 corridor. When Bearpath was
originally proposed they designed the whole subdivision with consideration
that the roadway would go through eventually. There is still talk that it i
would potentially happen. However,they have not been successful at this +l
particular time in moving forward with any kind of acquisition by the }
Highway Department. They have had this property for over 3 %: years,
owning it and paying taxes on it. The developer believes this is the least
impact environmentally in this particular area.
Koenig referred to the staff report that the developer owned the land at the
time of the PUD and access to that land could have been provided at the time
without crossing Riley Creek before the lots were platted. Vogelbacher said
that was correct,however,at the time there was the understanding that the
highway would go through and that has not happened. That has created a
hardship for them. They went ahead and platted all the other subdivisions in
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Approved Minutes
Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 4, 1996
Bearpath with the consideration of the highway at that particular time. They
have not had any success in working with the Highway Department to
acquire that property.
Koenig asked about staff concerns regarding the waiver. Fox replied staffs
main concern is about providing adequate fire protection for that lot.They
were also concerned about someone paying for a higher sewer service since
a cul-de-sac has a higher elevation,but that's not up to the staff to determine.
Koenig asked why the developer added a lot from the first Planning
Commission meeting to the second meeting going from 38 to 39 lots.
Vogclbacher said as they went back and looked at the plan to make the
changes requested by the Planning Commission they determined another lot
could fit in as a result.
Jacobson asked for clarification as to where Highway 212 would go.
Vogclbacher explained the potential location of Highway 212 on the map.
Jacobson asked for clarification on the trail issue. Vogclbacher gave the
�• Commission a handout which depicted the trail and reviewed the sheet. lie
said what the City has in terms of their overall plan is a nice option to
surround Rice Marsh Lake with a trail. They think they can do that but their
first choice would be not to do that.
Wilson asked how staff thinks this project should best be done. Lambert
commented the problem is this plan is running the trail right into a marsh
area and he would rather have the developer redraw rear lot lines. He would
prefer to do what is a requirement of the developer's agreement which
requires the developer to construct the trail to City standards and then get an
casement over the trail. What looks good on paper does not necessarily j
mean it's feasible once you get out there to actually do it, tfi
Vogclbacher commented their preference would be not to build the trail but i
they are intcrestcd in cooperating. This is a monetary issue for Bearpath. He
feels Bearpath has made substantial contributions. They are going to stand
by their agreement to construct what they agreed to construct in the original
developer's agreement.
They can build the trail above the ordinary high water level as recommended
by staff but they will probably need some boardwalks to do it.
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Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission 1
Monday,November 4, 1996
Kracum asked staff how far south would they recommend moving the trail
so it would be feasible. Lambert said it should be one foot above the high
water level mark. He agreed that Bearpath has done their share in providing
trail systems and cash park fees but they have not done anything more than
asked of other developers. All developers arc asked to pay cash park fees
and build trail systems that effect their property or border their property. It's
bccn found that a majority of the users of those trails arc the people that live
along the trails.
Vogelbacher proposed a path that main vehicles can drive on like a three ton
bridge. They cost about$120 to$130 per lineal foot. This will help when
they have to cross marsh land and it will maintain being able to get around
the lake. They would be happy to construct such a bridge and have had a lot
of success in the past with this.
Brown commented he has questions about the trail corridor,the landscaping,
the scenic conservation casement and none of it has been thoroughly
submitted to the Commission. fie said he has a problem voting for or against
anything until he secs this information. He doesn't have enough answers to '
vote. lie would like all this information submitted before he votes.
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Vogelbacher explained that a landscape plan includes a map with a bunch of
stamps on it representing trees. It's just as easy to look at it in written form
and may be more understandable.
Lambert agreed with Vogelbacher and noted the City does have a standard it
to enforce and there would be a written agreement. What he secs as not
being pinned down is the location of the trail and suggested that be done
prior to the second reading. He was concerned about the 18 percent slope of
the one driveway. lie suggested the roadway be designed to meet the
standard that would allow fire protection and emergency vehicles to reach
that house.
Kracum commented he was concerned about the one lot and whether or not J
fire protection can be provided. He was also confused about the jurisdiction
issue about whether he agrees with the decision to approve this plan by the
Planning Commission. Vogelbacher stated the Planning Commission
approvc,d this plan subject to the removal of that lot. This lot did not get the
approval of the Planning Commission.
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Approved Minutes „
Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 4, 1996
Koenig asked about the possibility of Outlot A being dedicated to the City.
Vogelbacher said they would prefer to hold the lot themselves. It's their
property and they want to keep it.
Fox noted the first reading with the City Council is scheduled for December
17 and typically the second reading follows one month after the first reading.
This would put the second reading for January 21.
Jill ( ), 18887 Magenta Bay,noted she lives on the north side of Rice
Marsh Lake. She requested the Commission not to rush through this process.
She appreciates the questions the commissioners have asked because she has
the same ones. None of the lots in her area infringe on any wetland on their
side of the lake and she would like that to remain on the other side of the lake
as well. She supports the idea of a trail system but was concerned that the
path will not be wide enough. She called the trail currently through Bearputh
a ditch. It is bermed on both sides and you can not see any of the area that's
around. If the path proposed is like this it would defeat the purpose of
having a path through that area. It would be an access to Lake Riley but part
! of the purpose of the path is to enjoy the surrounding area. She asked that
l the Commission not deviate from the wetland plan that the City of Eden
Prairie has worked so hard to preserve just so sonic lots can be closer to the
lake.
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Lambert started the comment from the audience about the path not being wide is
enough is a good one. He said the trail the woman spoke about is the LRT f
trail and has nothing to do with Bearpath.The standard for outlots per trail
between homes or behind homes is a minimum of 40 feet, and what is
proposed is only 20 feet. He recommended the outlot on the west side to be
a minimum of 40 feet wide. I
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MOTION: Jacobson moved,seconded by Koenig,to continue to review this
project until the developer has submitted before the Commission a landscape ta'
plan, a trail or corridor plan showing the areas delineated, scenic and i
conservation casement to be shown on the proposed plan,and review of the
wetland requirements,shorcland requirements for crossing of the creek,and
the environmental impact of the proposed trail. Motion carried 5-0.
Jacobson commented the reason he made the motion he did was because the
Commission needs more information in order to make a solid decision.
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Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 4, 1996
V11. NEW BUSINESS
A. Community Center Pool Recommendntinn
Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated November 5, 1996, from
Robert A. Lambert,Director of Parks,Recreation and Facilities.
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Lambert indicated staff had a meeting last week with the parents of the
Foxjct Swirn Club members and with parents of some of the girl's Varsity
Swim Team. They discussed why the Community Center is having air 4
problems,what staff has done to correct any air problems, and what they
plan on doing in the future to resolve the issue. He gave them the facts as }
outlined in the memo of November 5, 1996.
Last week staff attended the City School Joint Advisory meeting which
talked about the City and the school being partners in many joint societies
and land use,and how important it is for the City and school to address the
issues together. lie wants the City and school to be in the position of looking f
at the issues together such as determining a reasonable level for
improvements,whether it's affordable,and is it going to be healthy for the
users of the swimming pool.
He noted he will be talking to the City Council and requesting them to
authorize City staff to meet the school district staff to determine if the school
district is willing to work with them on these issues and get whatever experts
are needed to look at the issues. That's the first step in finding out what the
corrections should be. Once they have what the solutions arc and what the
expected costs arc,then the school board and the City Council will have to
sit down and talk about it.
lie commented that if this is truly a health issue and a safety issue that could
possible effect kids, he supports getting them out of the pool today and
letting them use Oak Paint Pool. Staff will provide the time at Oak Point if f~}
it's truly a health issue. r
VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. None
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Approved Minutes
Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday, November 4, 1996
VI11. REPORTS OF COMMISSION •RS AND STAFF
A. imports of COn1U1kg UU
I. Folhw-un-un on Previous D v lonment Pro Deals
Koenig commented site would like the Parks and Recreation
Commission to be aware of the problem over at Staring Lake, the
Pulte development. While walking her dog there three weeks ago she
observed that the silt fencing was down at the creek and there was
quite a bit of silt and some mud running into the creek. This was
right before a big intense rainstorm. She contacted Jeff Johnson from
engineering and he said he would contact the contractors and have
them repair the problem. She has since went with Jeff Johnson to
look at it couple of projects and he agreed this is a problem. The
contractors say they have corrected it but she has not observed any j
type of correction. In fact,it's only getting worse.
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She also commented that site looked at the Mitchell Village project
which was approved recently and was concerned about the wetland
in that area. Jeff Johnson agreed that the area should be restored.
She has no desire to stop projects but believes that the development
should be held accountable when there is damage t
Lambert suggested the Commission recommend to the City Council
that it should consider red tagging them until they correct the
problem. It will get their attention if they are put on hold and can not
work, j
Kocning commented she would like more information on future {
projects as to whether or not a sanitary sewer has to go in and create
disturbance to a wetland. She would like to know this ahead of time. ,+
Jacobson was concerned about residents observing these problems
and notifying the City instead of the City discovering the problems.
Fox replied as efficient as the staff is they can't get to every single
project. lie noted that 95 percent of the calls that arc on violations
is because somebody walked through the neighborhood and saw the
problem,and staff is very appreciative of that.
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Approved Minutes
Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday,November 4, 1996
MOTION: Koenig moved, seconded by Wilson,to approach the
City Council with the possibility of red tagging the Pultc project for
violation of environmental restrictions because they did not address
the issue of correcting drainage,and did not put up an erosion control
fence to keep all the drainage out of Purgatory Creek, and the
Commission would like to see this corrected within a few days.
Motion carried 5-0.
Staff reminded the Commission about the tour of the Edenbrook
Conservation Area which is scheduled for Saturday,November 9,at
9:00 a.m,at the City Center.
IX. ADJOURNMENT'
MOTION: Wilson moved,seconded by Koenig,to adjourn the meeting. Motion
carried 5-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
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