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HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 10/21/1996 q�r it I I %I t 1996 October 21 MINUTES Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission s CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE i i AGENDA PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION r i MONDAY,OCTOBER 21, 1996 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS 1 COMMISSION MEMBERS: Claire Hilgeman, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, j Don Jacobson,Vicki Koening, David Kracum,John Wilson j COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and j Natural Resources. Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services j A. Introduction of Student Mernhers M dLi ly 1-1•iss and tennifer FreemyerI 11. APPROVAL OF A ENDA 111. APPROVAL OF MINUTES-SEPTEMBER 16. 1996 i IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS ANDCOMMLl1`'I 'TIONS f 7 A. Reduest from the Trails Association R am dine Trail Easement 3 B. Proposal fir"rraftic Study 1t I7 ne Clot1iLEigj1jd6s i i V. DEVF .OPM •NT PROPOSALS i A. None V1. 01,1)1} 1SINFSS a VII. NEW B 1SIN •-SS A. Proposed 1997 Cash Park Fees Vill. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAI-F A. Report o1'Director of I'arks R•-r ati n and Fa ilc itiec I. Set Process and Mectine D ttcs for Fdrnbrook conservation Area Trail System "S I Agenda Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday,October 21, 1996 2. Set PEQccss and Meeting Dates for Review of it 4 nv Ica Y � �Y_..taS: B. Report of Community Center Manager l. Recommendation Rcuard*ng Desil;n�ted I 1cc of Meeting Room D 2. Update on Community Ccntcr Pool nn i 01k Point Pool IX. ©DJOURNMANT 7. i. C. 1� APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES MONDAY,OCTOBER 21, 1996 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER 8080 Mitchell Road Council Chambers COMMISSION MEMBERS: Claire Flilgenum, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown,Don Jacobson,Vicki Koenig, David Kracum,John Wilson STUDENT REPRESENTATIVE: Melody Hasse,Jennifer Freemycr COMMISSION STAFF: Robcrt A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Elinda Bahley,Recording Secretary 1 IZOL.L.CAI,I. tThe meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chair Flilgcman. All members were present. Cotmnissioner Bowman was excused at 8:24 p.m. and Commissioner Kracum was excused at 9:24 p.m. A. Introduction �f Ctud nt M tuber+McIO((y Hasse and Jennifer Frcemy r -- a The Commission welcomed Melody Hasse as a new student representative. It was noted that Jennifer Freemycr was not present but will be here at the I first meeting in November. IL AI'1'ROVA1.OF AC'FNDA i MOTION: Wilson moved, seconded by Jacobson, ton rove the Agenda published. Motion carried 7-0. pp as r 111. API'ROVAI.OF MIN I'I FC S `PTI'M tarn 6 1996 Koenig noted on page 5,second paragraph,change smaller community to projects, Bowman included in that same paragraph the following comments: There may be times when it tnay be more appropriate for lower priority, lower cost projects to receive approval than higher priority, high cost projects. It might be worth reassessing the priority list based not just on priority but on a combination of priority and cost. 1 Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, October 21, 1996 Hilgeman noted on page 3,the last paragraph,change the second sentence to. . . She was opposed to asphalt trails in the Gdcnbrook Conservation Area. MOTION: Jacobson moved,seconded by Bowman,to approve the Minutes of the September 16, 1996 Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources ' Commission as amended. Motion carried 7-0. IV. PETITIONS RFQUFCTS AND OMMUNI['.+TIONe A. Reouest from the Trails Accociatlon 121. u ements Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated October 16, 1996, from Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources: a letter dated September 24, 1996,from Robert A.Lambert, Director of Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources,an invoice dated March 22, 1996. from Bachrnan's f Nursery,and a letter dated September 19, 1996,from Jerry Quinn,Director of the Trails Association, j Lambert indicated for many years the Trails Association assumed this Property was a city owned trail and they never maintained it or improved it. After researching the situation, it was learned that it was supposed to be given to the City for dedication by the developer but he never did that. It's their trail. Some of the property owners wish to have it removed and others wcrc adamant in favoring keeping the trail because they use it. Staff brought this to the City Council about a year Lind half ago and they were in favor of i doing whatever it took to keep that trail. i The Trails Association has made a decision to transfer the ownership of the 1� trail to the City under the condition that the City would do some landscaping on their property to better screen their property from Anderson Lakes Parkway. They had plans drawn up through Bachman's Nursery which indicate a cost of about$8,700 for 45 spruce trees. The City Forester looked f S 'It the Soils and the shade there Laid recommended Arborvitae or Balsam Fir f for better screening and survival. The City can purchase these trees directly from a wholesale nursery at It cost of$35/tree or$1,500-$1,600 total cost. Staff reconirncndcd doing this because this is a►critical trail link. Koenig was concerned about the condition of the trail. Lambert indicated there arc some sections that are pretty bad. This is a six-foot trail which staff would recommend widening to an eight-foot trail next year to be consistent 2 i i Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday,October 21, 1996 with the public trail system. It was estimated to cost between $3,000 and $3,500 if staff does it. Hilgcman asked if that would be paid for through cash park fees for 1997. Lambert stated it would. Flilgeman commented the total cost for landscaping and widening the trail would be about$5,000. She askcd if that money is being taken away from something else that has been on the books fora long time. Lambert stated they do not have that defined a list. The 10-year CIP list is only a guideline. Brown was concerned that there be safeguards to prevent developers from not keeping their word on dedications in the future. Hilgcman expressed concern about misleading the neighbors about when the actual screening and widening of the trail will take place. Lambert noted this will go on to the City Council and if approved staff would plant the trees next year,and they may or may not get the trail improved in 1997. i Bowman referred to the letter from Jerry Quinn and questioned whether there 3 is anything that would be deemed unsafe. Lambert said they have talked about some changes to be made when they upgrade the trail and believe signagc would do a lot toward warning people that there's a fairly steep hill. f Staff'would make some minor modification and run the trail out a little further to alleviate the problem at the bottom of the hill. t Koenig was concerned about who would be responsible for taking care of the landscaping,the City or the Homeowner's Association, Lambert replied the City will buy and plant the trees,but it's up to the homeowners to water and Maintain them. Koenig asked if the City would be responsible for replacement if the trees don't survive. Lambert said they have not worked out details of the agreement to this point. MOTION: Bowman moved,seconded by Brown,to approve this proposal ff l I Per staffs recommendation of the memo dated October 16, 1996. Motion carried 7-0. il• Proomial for Traffic Stud♦ at Flying Cloud Fields Staff referred the Commission to 11 memo dated October 16, 1996, from Robert A.Lambert,Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities;and a letter dates October 15, 1996,from Benshoof tad Associates,Inc.,Transportation C 3 1 I Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission r Monday. October 21, 1996 I Engineers and Planners. Lambert indicated this is it recommendation to hire Benshoof&Associates to do a traffic and parking study for Flying Cloud ballfields. Over the years Flying Cloud ballfields were developed on a piece meal basis without any long term plan because of the short term 90 days termination notice. After going through the process and seeing the 20-year plan being supported,the recommendation is that it's worth the City's effort and money to make some investment in doing some kind of study at this time. It was also recommended to make a further investment in some more long term improvements such as paving the parking lot and parking area,and irrigating the fields. The first thing should be the traffic study to evaluate what is the best solution to ingress and egress for that site. There is little risk on the City's part at this time to invest in improvements in that facility because it's going to be there for the long term. The traffic study would be money well spent because the City may spend a significant amount of money over the next few years making improvements to the facility that is heavily used. Bowman agreed with the recommendation but questioned whether the City has expertise f'or doing such a traffic study. Lambert replied that we may have the expertise but we don't have the time. The City engineering Department generally hires RCM or Benshoof to do traffic studies. The City does have engineers that could do it if they had the time,but hey don't have the computer programs and models nor the staff to dedicate to traffic studies, Benshoof is he engineering company that's doing the traffic study for the City required for the MUSA line expansion. Brown asked if other engineering companies were asked to bid on this. { Lambert repled no and explained Benshoof has all the numbers in their computer system on the entire southwest part of the City. It would be a lot cheaper for them to do this than have some other company go out and ` regenerate all those numbers, Jacobson expressed concern about the number of parking spaces needed that were mentioned in the memo. I le wants to make sure Benshoof gets accurate information. Lambert replied the statistics in the memo arc the standards that have been adopted by the City Council for development of soccer fields, Football fields and base ballfields. The city's standard ratio of parking spaces 4 i Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday,October 21, 1996 per field is 35 parking spaces for soccer/football fields and 30 cars for baseball/softball fields. Staff has not given them any numbers yet because they have not hired them yet. Kocning asked where the money for the traffic study comes from. Lambert noted it will come out of the general fund. Ken Bomben, 9260 Talus Circle, President of the Eden Prairie Soccer Association,commented they use dying Cloud Fields in the spring for eight weeks and the fall for eight weeks. They use quarter size and half size fields for their program. The figure of'35 parking spaces per field is for a full size field. His estimate of what they need for the quarter size field is 20 parking spaces per field and for the halt'size field 25 to 30 parking spaces. They need an approximate total of 510 parking spaces and he explained how they arrived at those figures. The Soccer Association would be very interested in meeting with Benshoofand Associates. The Soccer Association also supports the paving and striping of the parking lots. They would like to keep the program all in one lace and if the City can expand the boundaries they support it. The Soccer Association planned last summer to this commission with the recommendation of taking the cast side down and putting irrigation in. They were concerned about the size of their program over using the fields. The Soccer Association has been planning for sometime now to find a way to help the City with those fields. Lambert noted they will talk to cash of the association president's onuses and their projections as well. If the Soccer Association requires 510 parking spaces and softball requires 210 and baseball 30, the total would be 780 spaces. Kracum asked if they stagger the starting times. Bomben replied they typically run two programs each night and do stagger their starting times in f;= the programs. There is communication between the associations and some years are better than others. ' MO'HON:Kracum moved,seconded by Wilson,to recommend approval of the contract proposed to authorize Benshoof and Associates to come forward with a traffic and parking plan for Flying Cloud Fields as per staffs recommendation of October 16. 1996. Motion carried 6-0-1 with one abstention by Commissioner Brown. V, IIr,VF.LOPMLNT PROPOSALS 5 i ti t Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday,October 21, 1996 A. None V1. OLD BUSINESS None i Vll. NEW BUSINESS A. Proposed Cash Park F e% Staff refetrcd the commission to a memo dated October 15, 1996,from Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks,Recreation and facilities. Lambert indicated each year they are requested to do evaluations of the increased value of the undeveloped land in Eden Prairie, The City assessing staff indicated undeveloped land beyond the MUSA line has increased a minimum of 10%in value from last year to this ycar. This represents a 10%increase on residential park fees. Staff not only looked at just increase in value of the undeveloped land but also what other cities arc charging for cash park Ices as well. They recognize Eden Prairie as having one of the most expensive land values in the metro area and,therefore,expect the fees to beat the top or near the top. Lambert reviewed the survey chart attached with the memo. Staff is not recommending any increase in commercial,office,or industrial because their flat fees are one of the highest at this time. 'fhere is also no indication orally significant increase in new land values for commercial,office,or industrial compared to the undeveloped residential land outside the MUSA line. If this is approved by the Commission, it will be forwarded to the City Council to be adopted on January I, 1997. Bowman asked how long they have been at this fcc schedule. Lambert replied one year. Staff increased it significantly last year. They went from$945 to$1,200 for fit= residential because they had not really kept up with the market. Bowman questioned why the IO'S6 increase should not reflect the commercial property also whey Eden Prairie's property values arc one of the highest in the metro area. Lambert explained they don't want to price developers out of Eden Prairie, Brown commented the Commission recognized the $30,000 an acre to be very conservative and believes $40.000 in acre to be more accurate, therefore, he { suggested they go with at least$35,000 an acre. Lambert indicated the Commission 6 Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Conunission Monday, October 21, 1996 is in the process to decide that right now. IF the Commission wishes to recommend higher,that's their right. As a staff person,he gave a conservative recommendation. Bowman recommended they don't increase at all, that their rates should be a flat percentage of the market value and that they assign a market value each year. This would send the message that the City is not increasing the rates but that property values arc going up. The rates stay the same. Brown commented a flat percentage does not include high a low density. He j recommended that the City Council consider$35,000 to$40,000 an acre. He noted that the developers arc only going to pass the increase onto the buyers. He doesn't believe it's fair to figure on a percentage when they know it's a very conservative value. Hilgeman noted affordable housing is a big issue. They would really be pricing the people out of Eden Prairie,not the developers. This has been a big concern of the { community that the developer is going to pass this cost on down to the homeowner. a This would be adding about$500 per house. �_. Kocning commented she understands Brown's point but she looks at this from an affordable housing point ol'view that the cost is going to be passed on to the buyer. 3 Bowman noted the Conunission should look at this annually and prepare people that this will be moved every year. Motions: Bowman moved, seconded by Brown, to approve this per staffs recommendation with the change that the Commission believes that the average cost for undeveloped land in Eden Prairie to be closer to$35,000 per acre,rather than $30,000 per acre,which will translate into about$1,4000 per unit instead of$1,320 per unit which is a 16.7%increase. Motion curried 7-0. V11. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Rcnort of Director of Parks Recreation and Facilities 1. Set Process an(]Meeting Dates for Fdenhook Conservation Area Trail System StafTreferrcd to the Commission memo dated October 14. 1996,from Robert A, Lambert,Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities. 7 I Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday,October 21, 1996 Lambert indicated at the last meeting the Commission discussed the process for sending out infonnation to all neighbors and having a separate meeting to get input on the Edenbrook Conservation trail situation. Upon further reflection,staff recommends inviting neighbors to a Commission meeting to review the existing trail system plan and to comment on concerns in the 'I priorities. Staff would send out notices to people within about 1000 feet of the arcs. The residents would be asked to come back several months later to review it drafl concept. IF approved.the plan would then be forwarded to the Planning Commission and City Council for approval. The tentative time line for developing the trail in the Edenbrook Conservation Area is 1989. 1-lilgeman recalled it City representative that came to her neighborhood in 1986 or 1987,showed them plans,and indicated this was scheduled to be done in 1989 or 1989. She was concerned that this got bumped and the t pcoplc were never notified of that fact, As far as they're concerned,unless they put forth the effort to call the office and double check on it they have not idea what's going on. J i Lambert explained this is the concern with a five or ten year plan and C. reminding people this is it guide that staff will try to get to it in the next few i years but there's no guarantee. People have selective hearing and they don't 'F always hear that this is it guide for what might happen rather than something that would definitely have been done in 1988. a 1-lilgeman noted the City does not do a good job of communicating to the public where the money is and what's in the works. She commented she likes the recommendation by staff because it makes sense. Lambert suggested inviting the residents to the December 2, 1996 meeting and staff'would send out letters in the next ten days. 1 i A tour of'the area for commissioners was scheduled for Saturday,November 1 9, 1996. , 11IOTION:Brown moved,seconded by Jacobson,to accept staffs recommendation of notifying people of the Edenbrook Conservation Area to attend the meeting on Monday. December 2, 1996,to discuss the possibility of a trail system. Motion curried 7-0. 2. Set Process and Meedne DjtlLs for Review of Clty Survey Issues Staff referred the Commission to it memo dated October 14. 1996.from Robert A. 8 I Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resoa-cs Commission Monday,October 21, 1996 Lambert, Director of Parks,Recreation and Facilities. Lambert indicated he would like to invite Bill Morris to come to a Commission meeting. The Commission would have a series of questions for him on the last survey and have discussion about how the Commission is reading the information from the survey. Discussion would also include information mentioned in the memo. (Commissioner Bowman was excused at 8t25 p.m.) Lambert noted he would schedule the visit with Mr. Morris either the first or second meeting in December. B. Reom•t of CQUI11111rilly Center Mono i I. Recommendation R CartlinL 5I11nated Use or Meeting Room D Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated October 9, 1996.from Joel Klute, Ice Arena&Concession Coordinator. Lambert indicated Meeting Room D is located in the back of the Community Center off the Olympic ice rink. According to the user program,it's a room that received significantly less use than some of the other meeting rooms but it does get some use. The Hockey Association has requested to have designated space in Meeting Room D but not taking it of commission for public users. They would have priority use and be able to keep their mailbox, I TV,and VCR along with some other things in there. Staff is supportive of that kind of use for that facility. The Hockey Association serves over 800 kids in the community now and provides lots of programs. 'Phis would be a very big convenience for them to have some Place in the Community Centel'to keep their things, do their training,and know they have priority use of that space. As long as the public can continue f to use that for meetings when it's not being booked by the Hockey Association,staff has not problems with it. Brad I lewitt, President of the Eden Prairie Ilockey Association,explained their need to have this designated space. The I lockey Association would use this room as a resource center where kids can put a tape in the VCR us a learning tool, They would prefer having this room designated rather than removing the'I'V and VCR out ol'the room after every meeting,They have 820 people in their programs and their mailboxes are located over by the 9 i I Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday,October 21, 1996 figure skating. It would be a great convenience to be able to leave everything in the room and to have their mailboxes there also. Hilgcman asked how long the season is. Hewitt replied all year. Hilgcman asked if they are a nonprofit organization. Hewitt replied they are, Brown asked if they foresee the need for this room just part of the year or the whole year. Hewitt replied they would use the room all year. Jacobson was concerned about the room being so small and becoming a hangout. Hewitt noted one time they had about 15 to 17 kids in there. It would be a recreational research center. They play back the games on tape and there would be a chalk board on one side. It's not going to be a hangout i room. The City would have access to the room at all times. i a Jacobson asked why they can't just sign up for the room and use it. Hewitt explained it's f'or convenience of not having to move the RV and VCR each t time. It would be easier for them to have access. There is no storage or closet area in that room and they would like to put up shelves. i Brown asked if there arc fees for rental of that room. Hilgcman indicated all of the meeting rooms are free unless it's a private group that comes in selling something, i Hilgcman asked ifthe City is prepared to offer personal space to all the other athletic groups when they ask for it. Lambert said no. Hilgcman was concerned about how they arc going to be able to justify to other groups that ? they can't have their own personal space when they can prove their programs are growing just like this one, j i Wilson commenlcd the City provides storage space for baseball and football but they do not provide storage space for hockey. Lambert indicated they do provide some i temporary space at the Community Center for the Hockey Association which is the area behind the team rooms. Jacobson stated you can't compare this to the space at Flying Cloud because it's not heated and there's no toilets. Nobody is going to watch a tape there in December. Joel Klute, Ice Arena & Concession Coordinator, noted he made the reconm►endation and explained that the Hockey Association is one of the main users of the Community Center. Last year they brought in six digits in revenue which cannot be generated by the Figure Skating Club. They arc the number one users just 10 i Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday,October 21, 1996 like the Baseball Association is the number one user of the fields. Ile explained that Meeting Room D gets very minimal use. People don't know where the room is. Ile made this recommendation with the understanding that the City will always have access to it. They plan to do the same type of sign up as they do on all nights for any of the rooms. If someone needs that room until ahead of them,they will lose it for the night. Basically,staff is going to provide for one of the biggest associations. They are in that room until 2:30 or 3:00 in the morning. He made the recommendation based on what this association is trying to provide for the users. He apologized for not taking into account any other associations. Hilgeman stated the point remains that staff is going to have to provide space for those other people eventually. There is not way to get around it. Hewitt stated they are here for all kids and recommended a joint use of the room for all the athletic associations. Jacobson said it would be too small for soccer. Their meetings consist of60-70 people and they utilize Rooms A and B. Wilson suggested using it for team meetings as a resource center. Jacobson replied they are a fun league and don't get in-depth like that. Kracum conunentcd he understands the need for the Hockey Association and wants to help,but they can't exclude other people. Kocning asked if there would be enough free meeting space open to the public if the Commission approves this. Klute replied there will be. From experience he has r been people that book for four hours and only use one hour or 30 minutes. This will not affect the public at large. I Jacobson noted that A and B are used for hockey during the winter months and this would then be freed up. They would be centralized all in one room if this is approved. MOTION:Brown moved,seconded by Jacobson,to approve the request from the Hockey Association I'or use of Meeting Room D on 801%coverage and leave it up the coordinator to decide whether it's int'ringing on other public meetings or not. Motion curried 5-1-0 with no vole by Commissioner 11ilgeman, (Commissioners Krucum was excused at 9:24 p.m.) 2. Update on Conununlly Center foul and Oak Point Pew 11 `I X 1� Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday,October 21, 1996 Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated October 16, 1996, from Elyce Kastigar,Community Center Manager. This is an FYO item. IX, Adjournment MOTION:Brown moved,seconded by Hilgeman,to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 5-0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:35 p.m. I� C 12