HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 01/08/2009 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY,JANUARY 8, 2009 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
Heritage Room 1
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Vice-Chair Jeff Larsen, Commissioners:
Judy Gentry, Joe Harris, Greg McKewan,
Mark Michelson and Kurt Schendel
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Chair Rick King
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Michael Dennis and J.P. Maslyn
VISITORS: Scott Skramstad, MAC
Mitch Anderson
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner
Carol Pelzel, City Recorder
I. CALL TO ORDER
Vice-Chair Larsen called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Kipp asked that an item regarding a telephone complaint he received on helicopters be
added under Item VIII. A. Life Link III Helicopter Flight Tracks and under New Business
he would like to add an update on the terms of the Commissioners.
Michelson said he thought the Commission was going to discuss reducing the number of
noise complaint letters being sent out to an operator. Larsen suggested that they include this
as one of the topics for a future meeting.
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Gentry, to approve the agenda as amended.
Motion carried, 6-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. November 13, 2008 Minutes of Regular Commission Meeting
Larsen said the date on the first page of the minutes should be November 13 not
November 12. Schendel pointed out that the name of the Director of Operations for
Executive Aviation at the bottom of Page 1 should be spelled Otteson not Ottoson.
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MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by McKewan, to approve the November 13,
2008, regular meeting minutes as corrected. Motion carried, 4-0-2 with Harris and
Schendel abstaining because of absence from that meeting.
V. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. 2008 Year-End Report and 2009 Goals and Work Plan
Kipp explained that this item had been before the Commission at their last meeting and
Kipp asked that the Commission provide him with any comments and/or changes. The
enclosed document includes the Commission's comments and he would like the
Commission to approve this as their final draft so that it can be forwarded to the City
Council. If the Council has their annual workshop with the Commission the report
would be presented to them at that time. Harris said the only comment he had was with
regard to the second bullet on Page 3; "MAC to ask the FAA to have MSP air traffic
control give turbo props a southbound heading". He said MAC is willing to support this
but the request should come from the City to the FAA not to MAC and then to the
FAA.
Schendel said they had discussed putting information on the ATIS regarding the
voluntary noise restriction. Harris said MAC has pursued this and they are waiting to
see whether or not the FAA will allow this. Skramstad pointed out that the FAA is not
very receptive to having non-standard information placed on the ATIS. Harris suggested
they limit the message to "noise abatement procedures are in effect".
Michelson said the report states that they should study whether to ask the Tower to
modify their hours by adding direct control from 5 to 7 a.m. vs. 9 to 11 p.m. He asked if
those times are correct. Kipp responded that instead of adding more hours they are
suggesting that they shift them by starting at 5 a.m. but ending at 7 a.m., ending two
hours earlier. Schendel said that during the summer months the tower is open until
10 p.m. but he can't see the tower closing at 8 p.m. during those months. Harris said
given staffing levels and requirements for the tower, they are looking for a way to
stretch the hours of the operation of the towers more specifically in the a.m. without
adding to or stretching the budget. Michelson suggested they add the words "adjust
seasonably". Harris said this item needs to be looked at more closely, however, he
believes it is important and needs to be included in the report. Larsen suggested they
leave the wording as it is at this time. Harris indicated that the issue of the tower is
more than noise abatement, it is also an operational issue.
In response to a question from Larsen, Kipp responded that the graphs on Pages 4 and 5
still need to be worked on. With regard to operations, Harris reported that there were
116,696 take offs and landings during tower hours in 2008 representing a one percent
drop from the previous year. He pointed out that Anoka's numbers dropped 13.8
percent from the previous year.
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Gentry suggested that bullet number 4 on Page 6 be changed to read "All reported
incidents were reviewed to the greatest or fullest extent possible".
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by McKewan, to accept the Flying Cloud
Airport Advisory Commission 2008 Report and 2009 Goals and Work Plan as
amended. Motion carried, 6-0.
B. Susmestions for 2009 Commission Topics and Speakers
Kipp explained that last year staff took the Commission's suggestions for specific
topics and speakers and then set them up for various meetings. Staff would like to do
the same this year.
Gentry said she would like to hear from a pilot who flies out of Flying Cloud airport
and their point of view of the airport. She suggested they ask a pilot who flies their own
plane for leisure and one that flies a corporate jet to address the Commission.
Harris suggested that they invite Bridget Rief, Assistant Director of Airport
Development for MAC, to the March meeting to talk about the proposed capital
improvements for Flying Cloud. Harris said this will be an on-going topic that this
group will have to deal with. He also suggested that Chad Leqve from MAC brief the
Commission on the airport zoning process which includes safety areas and land use.
Larsen said that as a Commission they would want to know what is happening with the
improvements at Flying Cloud and in the absence of the Commission's Chair, he asked
Harris to speak to Rief about attending the March Commission meeting. Kipp pointed
out that King had confirmed having representatives from Air Methods and Life Link
attend the March meeting. Larsen said he doesn't see that as a problem and believes
they could have all three make presentations at that meeting. Harris pointed out that it is
critical that Rief come in March because they will be starting the public process for the
capital improvements.
Gentry asked if the Commission had talked about conducting another public meeting to
update the public on what is going on at the airport. Kipp said they did not discuss an
additional public meeting but King did talk about methods to provide information to the
public through mailings, website, newspaper, etc. Larsen said they also talked about the
possibility of having an open house at Flying Cloud so that the public could see what is
out there. He said he did not know how difficult that would be and what issues would
need to be resolved prior to holding such an open house.
Kipp asked Harris what the timing is for construction to occur at Flying Cloud. Harris
responded that it is yet to be determined. They have secured $2 million to do some
grading work in the spring. Without getting additional funds, they are unsure as to how
far they can get into the project. If the funds come later, they will not begin the runway
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work until 2010 and it will not be completed until mid-summer of that year. There will
be a lot of activity at the airport as they spend down the money they do have.
Michelson suggested they invite MAC Commissioners Molly Sigel and Jack Lanners
and also Gary Schmidt from MAC. These people could provide the Commission with
information and the Commission could provide them with information on how the
community feels about the airport. He also suggested they invite Eden Prairie's
Legislative representatives.
McKewan questioned the status of the building code at the airport and if they are
making any progress with it. Kipp explained that the City's building official reviews the
hangar buildings for code issues and the Fire Department inspects the hangars for code
violations. McKewan asked how the code would be changed to improve the airport.
Kipp responded that that is a MAC issue. Harris explained that Gary Schmidt from
MAC is working on revising the ordinances including one of which will be a hangar
construction design standard. He further explained that another hangar will be torn
down in January and there will be five new hangars going up. Over the last 12 months
five hangars have been demolished. McKewan asked if MAC is controlling the look of
these hangars. Harris said they are, through a new process. The problem is what do they
do to change the appearance of the existing hangars. Larsen asked when these
ordinances would be adopted. Harris explained that they want to solicit public comment
from tenants on these ordinances because they will be impacted the most. The process
will definitely be started and he anticipates that they will be adopted late summer or
third quarter. There is a draft of a hangar ordinance but it will be included with other
ordinances.
Larsen said he would like the Commission to discuss how to handle more efficiently
letters of noise violations. He suggested that they involve the public while going into
the construction period and it would be helpful to acquaint people on what is going on
at the airport and why they see activity. Larsen said he understands that MAC was
going to have one-on-one meetings with the operators on noise abatement procedures
and he asked if this is something the Commission should participate in. Kipp said he
did not think there had been any further discussion on how the one-on-one meetings
would occur. The purpose of the meetings is to see if the operators had anything they
could contribute to noise abatement. Schendel pointed out that noise abatement is an
on-going issue every day. MAC provides posters, brochures, etc. and this is not a
onetime thing. Larsen said they as a Commission have not talked to the operators one-
on-one and he is suggesting that it be an informational discussion to explain why noise
abatement is important to this Commission.
Kipp said he would incorporate all of the suggestions for speakers and topics and
forward a list to the Commission prior to their next meeting.
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McKewan said he believes it would make sense to visit other reliever airports to see
how they handle things differently than Flying Cloud and in particular, noise abatement.
Harris said he agrees that it would be a benefit to this Commission. He pointed out that
the Anoka airport would be a good airport to visit because it is comparable in runway
size.
Michelson pointed out that Anoka has one advisory group including airport and city
people. He asked if this is something they should consider here to be more efficient.
Skramstad explained that the big difference is that this is a City Advisory Commission
while all of the other groups are MAC supported and report back to the City. Michelson
asked if there would be any point in integrating their meeting with Flying Cloud
Airport. Harris pointed out that multiple communities surround the Anoka airport while
here you have only the City of Eden Prairie. McKewan mentioned that this
Commission's focus is with an agreement.
C. Update on City Ordinance to Establish Airport Zoning District
Kipp reported that City staff has met with MAC to address future construction of the
new hangar area on the south side of the airport. City staff provided them with the draft
zoning ordinance discussing material standards for storage hangars. They also talked
about guiding design standards or site plans for the building area on the south side.
Kipp explained that MAC indicated that they want to control the new hangar area and
they are working on lease agreements to try to implement those standards. The City is
okay with that and is comfortable with MAC taking care of those issues. Kipp said they
wanted to make sure that they are all on the same page and City staff will continue to
work with MAC. He indicated that they also discussed an Airport Zoning Board that
may be formed in the first or second quarter.
Michelson asked if MAC is trying to come up with standards for all reliever airports at
one time. Harris responded that those standards applied in Eden Prairie would be
similar standards to those applied at the five other reliever airports. He stated that
appearance is paramount and extremely important to MAC.
VI. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
A. Update to City's Airport Website
McKewan reviewed the various website pages of the Commission and suggested
several changes to those pages. The Commission also discussed which items should be
archived and which should remain on the site. They agreed that the site should include
an archives page and they would keep the Commission's 2008 and 2009 goals active
and archive the others. The 2006 annual report will also be archived and the
Commission agreed that the site should be kept more current. They also agreed that they
would keep the prior year's minutes active and archive the others. With regard to the
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MAC expansion plan, the Commission agreed that the verbiage should be changed to
read that"MAC has received FAA approval to expand the airport." McKewan said he
would make the changes to the website that were discussed this evening in addition to
making it a more current site.
Mitch Anderson asked if the businesses in the field are referenced on the website so that
if someone who is not familiar with the airport can locate FBO repair facilities. Harris
responded that they are referenced through the MAC link.
On behalf of the Commission, Larsen thanked McKewan for all of the work he has
done in creating an excellent website.
VII. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC
A. 2009 Management Audit of Final Agreement
Kipp explained that staff mailed out the original Final Agreement and asked MAC to
provide responses to each section. The City also provided responses to those sections.
Kipp pointed out that the first Management Audit included several exhibits and many of
the previous responses are still valid. He said they have not determined if they need
those exhibits for this audit. The document includes the responses from the 2003 and
2005 Management Audit and now also includes the responses from this audit. Larsen
suggested they include a note in the document indicating that the exhibits are available
on the web and are not part of this document.
Larsen indicated that this was a rather larger document to review. If staff is trying to get
this information together for the Council workshop it needs to be completed very soon.
Kipp said that the Commission should provide him with their comments as soon as
possible. He is not sure they will be included in this document since it only provides
answers to the issues.
Michelson asked if there is anything in the document that the Commission should be
made aware of. Kipp responded that one of the purposes of the Management Audit is to
determine if they are getting the job done. Regarding the Final Agreement, the City is
concerned about getting as many letters of intent as they can and to address some of the
individual pilots on the field and not just corporate users. They would like the letter of
intent to address not flying between the hours of 1OPM and 7AM. Part of this will be
done with the one-on-one meetings with the businesses at the airport. Kipp said another
effort may be to encourage additional buy-in on the voluntary nighttime restriction. As
part of the Final Agreement, MAC is to go out and obtain those letters. Also, the intent
of this Agreement is to minimize noise overall. Kipp said that now that the Record of
Decision has been issued, there may be some progress made on the park issues. Kipp
said the door is always open for MAC and the Commission to continue to work to
minimize noise at the airport.
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Larsen asked if the Commission could make suggested changes to this document. Kipp
explained that this is a document that City staff and MAC provided answers to and are
included in the document. Michelson asked if the Commission could have an additional
week to review this information. Kipp said that would be fine and requested no formal
action at this time.
B. Noise Complaints/Stage 2 Operations Report (November-December)
Skramstad presented a report showing the number of noise complaints for the last ten
years. Historically, the most complaints received were in 2008 with 2,878 complaints
received from 171 separate households. Over 50 percent of those complaints were filed
by six households generating 1,629 complaints or 56.6 percent.
Skramstad reported that for the months of November and December there were 352
complaints filed from 44 households and 250 of those complaints were for nighttime
operations between the hours of 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. He said they sent out 63 letters with
one operator receiving 17 letters and two operators receiving 12 letters each. There
were no Stage Il aircraft operations. Skramstad also reported that in 2008 they sent out a
total of 524 letters to users regarding nighttime operations and complaints.
Larsen said that at a previous meeting they had talked about the possibility of having a
map showing the location of the top five complainants. Skramstad said he had prepared
that information and had forwarded it to Chair King. Kipp said he does have that
information and would forward it to the Commission.
McKewan pointed out that a lot of the complaints are for early morning flights. He said
if they open the tower earlier that might be of some help. He asked if they are using the
recommended procedure of flying over the river area. Skramstad responded that many
do but that puts them over a new development. They are doing what has been the noise
abatement procedure dating back to the late 1970's. McKewan asked if they are able to
determine if different groups are complaining about the same airplane. Skramstad
answered that they do track that. They see about 20 percent of the complaints from
more than one person complaining about the same operation. He said that it is difficult
to determine if the noise abatement procedures in and of themselves are working.
Complaints are a subjective thing and help them look at people who are actually
disturbed by nighttime operations and also useful in showing any specific trends or
irregularities. This also helps them in developing procedures. Skramstad said that from
the complaints received there does not appear to be anything unusual going on at the
airport.
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VIII. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
A. Life Link III Helicopter Flight Tracks (November- December)
Skramstad reported that the map distributed represents 126 helicopter operations with
63 arrivals and 63 departures. There were 42 complaints received from 15
complainants. Twenty of the 42 complaints were related to Life Link operations. Ten of
the flights were MSP aircraft and two incidents were news helicopters. There were also
two helicopters doing training. Skramstad suggested that when Life Link meets with the
Commission they may want to discuss the flight tracks and ask that their operation
abide by the noise abatement procedures.
Kipp said that part of the departure procedures state that they should gain a certain
higher altitude before they depart airport property and he asked if that is occurring.
Skramstad explained that an actual complaint was received today at 3:30 a.m. and the
pilot was identified as Life Link and was at 2000 MSL. That is exactly what he was
supposed to be doing. Kipp said the map does show the flight tracks but it does not
show how high or how low they are flying. Kipp said he had also talked to that resident
and he will call him back and explain that the flight was at the correct altitude. Kipp
said this was the telephone complaint he had asked be added to the agenda.
IX. NEW BUSINESS
A. Commission Members Terms of Office
Kipp reported that Commissioners Michelson, Larsen and Schendel's terms of office
are up at the end of March. Larsen and Schendel are business representatives and
Michelson is a community representative. The FCAC ordinance states that there shall
be two business representatives of the City on the Commission and one needs to be an
airport business. Kipp explained that the City Council can reappoint the Commissioners
to a second term but it has to be by a unanimous vote. He stated that if any of these
three Commissioners wish to be reappointed to the Commission they need to reapply to
stay on.
X. OTHER BUSINESS
Larsen said there had been an article in the newspaper about an expansion at the Anoka
airport. He asked what has happened since the November 17 article. Harris explained that it
was a rumor that forced others including MAC into an uncomfortable position. They had to
do some damage control on that issue. MAC will be doing a long-term comprehensive plan
for the Anoka airport.
McKewan said that when Commissioner Lanners was before this Commission he talked
about signage for transient pilots. McKewan suggested they have a sign at the end of the
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 8, 2009
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runway stating that when the tower is closed and they recommend that the aircraft turn out
south. Harris said there are signs located there already. McKewan said they also discussed
mailing letters to the people who own hangars at Flying Cloud reminding them of the noise
abatement procedure. Skramstad said that when they held the noise abatement briefing
notices were mailed to the tenants. McKewan asked if there are noise abatement signs
posted in the FBO's pilot lounge. Harris said there are and one operator had them framed
and hung in their lobby. Harris said he believes they are pretty well covered with signage
but at their one-on-one meetings with the operators they will ask them what they would like
to see and what do they do with the information they provide them. Larsen asked that the
Commission be provided with the same information that they distribute to the operators.
This may even be something they could include on their web site to let people know that
the information is on the premises and is being reviewed.
Various FYI Items:
• Approved FCAAC minutes of September 11, 2008
• City Council minutes of November 18, 2008 on FCAAC Activities
• Letter of Support to Life link III and Air Methods
• Various airport/aviation related news articles
• Note of thanks for Police Department during RNC
• Next Commission meeting is scheduled for March 12, 2009
XI. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Motion was made by Gentry, seconded by Michelson, to adjourn the meeting.
Motion carried, 6-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:40 p.m.