HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 09/11/2008 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2008 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
Heritage Room 1
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Rick King, Vice-Chair Jeff Larsen,
Commissioners: Judy Gentry, Joe Harris,
Mark Michelson and Kurt Schendel
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Greg McKewan
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: J.P. Maslyn
VISITORS: Molly Sigel, MAC Commissioner
Scott Skramstad, MAC
Chad Leqve, MAC
Aaron Frase, MAC
Warren McVey, FAA
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner
Carol Pelzel, City Recorder
I. CALL TO ORDER
Chair King called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Larsen moved, seconded by Gentry, to approve the agenda as presented.
Motion carried, 6-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. July 10, 2008 Notes of Visits to Airport Businesses and Airport Tour
MOTION: Gentry moved, seconded by Larsen, to approve the July 10, 2008 notes as
presented. Motion carried 6-0.
B. July 10, 2008 Minutes of Regular Commission Meeting
Skramstad asked that on Page 7, second paragraph under VIII. A., the word
"complaints" in the second sentence of that paragraph be changed to "operations" and
on the same page, the last sentence of that page, the word"levels" be changed to
"procedures".
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MOTION: Schendel moved, seconded by Larsen, to approve the July 10, 2008 regular
meeting minutes as corrected. Motion carried, 6-0.
V. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. Guest Speaker—Molly Sigel, Metropolitan Airports Commissioner
King introduced Molly Sigel, Metropolitan Airports Commissioner, explaining that the
purpose of asking her to attend this meeting was to have her give the Commission her
views of the reliever system at Flying Cloud Airport and to give the Commission an
opportunity to visit with her.
Sigel apologized for not having attended any of the Commission meetings prior to this
meeting. She stated that this Commission is a model for the other airports in terms of
working through issues in a collaborative and diplomatic way. Both she and MAC staff
appreciate the work this Commission does.
With respect to Flying Cloud, Sigel reported that last month's groundbreaking
ceremony was a culmination of two decades of planning and deliberation. She reviewed
the work that was done to get to the point where they began the improvements to Flying
Cloud. Sigel stated that Flying Cloud is a regional asset and the improvements to the
airport will provide benefits not only to the public and families in Eden Prairie but to
other communities. The longer, wider runways will present an additional measure of
safety for those who use the airport. The airport improvements ensure that Flying Cloud
and other airports can be used more efficiently. Sigel explained that newer model
aircraft will be using this improved airport and those aircraft are quieter. She said it is
important to acknowledge that not everyone was happy to see these improvements but
they can all be proud of the process that led them to the beginning of the airfield
improvements.
Sigel briefly reviewed the Agreement between the City and MAC with regard to
nighttime operation voluntary restrictions. She indicated that the FAA limits the degree
of airport authority. Sigel explained that Flying Cloud is one of the three primary
reliever airports in the MAC system and they have done improvements to all three of
those airports. She stated that their involvement with the City of Eden Prairie does not
end once the construction starts but they will keep lines of communication open. She
welcomes the audit requested by the City Manager and feels it will give MAC and the
City the opportunity to respond to any doubts regarding compliance.
Sigel said she is excited to see the extension of the runway happen and she is very much
an advocate for a responsible expansion. She welcomes feedback and MAC staff has
and will continue to be responsive to the community's concerns. Sigel thanked the
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September 11, 2008
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Commission for the work they have done in keeping the expansion moving forward in a
civilized manner. She said she is happy to continue dialogue with this Commission.
King asked if MAC, as a Commission, is dedicated to the concept of the relievers as
originally reported. He indicated that the MAC Commission has changed since that
report was completed. Sigel responded that there was some question as to the future of
the Crystal airport as it relates to MAC's system. Part of the Crystal report that was
issued indicated that the Commission's concept is whether or not the reliever system
can be financially self-sufficient. They feel that they will always be subsidizing certain
reliever airports but hope that they can find more on-airport and off-airport none-
aviation revenue. Sigel said she thinks it is unrealistic for all of the reliever airports to
be self-sufficient. Flying Cloud is one of the airports they see as generating none-
aviation revenue and they are moving in that direction. Sigel said there are some things
in that report that she disagrees with. MAC's CIP is still very committed to capital
improvements at all of the reliever airports including the Crystal airport and they are in
the process of doing a forecast for Flying Cloud. She stated that everyone is doing the
best they can to maximize revenue. Sigel said they realize that they have an obligation
to maintain a strong reliever system. King asked with regard to the Crystal Airport, have
they considered closing the airport and actually selling it and focusing the capital on
fewer assets. Sigel responded that so much would have to happen before they would be
able to sell that property. She said that MAC has a commitment to this airport and they
have moved on.
King said with regard to federal funds, people have asked about the certainty of next
year's funding for the south parallel improvement and the relocation of the tower. He
asked Sigel if she had any insight about the south parallel project. Sigel explained that it
is her understanding there is internal discussion about whether or not funds for this
project will be coming in as quickly as staff anticipated. They don't believe the actual
runway development would be affected by that. King asked if the tower relocation and
actual work on the terminal area would occur. Leqve explained that for fiscal year 2008
they are looking at 2010 projects. The concept of federal funding is a moving target.
Internally, airport development staff is looking at different options in terms of the
funding element for the south runway project. He further explained that the project
itself is not in question but the different funding elements to make it happen have to be
discussed.
Michelson asked what the effect would be to MSP if Northwest were to move their hub.
Sigel responded that it is expected that Northwest will move jobs from the Twin Cities
and they are still waiting to see how many. How their merger with Delta will effect
operations at MSP is very unclear. There is some major attrition going on right now.
She explained that MAC will need to decide how they will respond when they need to
deal with the financial issues with Northwest. There are individual Commissioners
unsure of how they will handle that. Some of the Commissioners are hard school about
holding them to the letter of the law and some question whether or not we will get
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another airline. It is hoped that if Northwest does move their operations from MSP they
will be able to replace them with some other airlines.
Michelson questioned how the rebuilding of the Chicago airport will affect MSP. Leqve
explained that a lot of what they are doing in Chicago is what MAC is doing at Flying
Cloud and that is to do a better job of accommodating traffic and demand that is there.
There is a capacity issue at O'Hare and a significant deficiency. The existing demand
dictates more airport capacity. MSP is in the bottom sector for cost per passenger. MSP
is better placed than other airports when they are competing for hub status. MAC is
very competitive when it comes to cost per plane passenger. Michelson said he wonders
if MSP will have slow erosion since Minnesota is a cold climate. Leqve explained that
when they are talking about a hub, operation is not an issue. MSP is located in a central
geographic area.
Michelson pointed out that MAC is comprised of representatives from Minneapolis and
St. Paul while Flying Cloud is the only airport in the system wholly in the City of Eden
Prairie. He asked if there is a possibility that Eden Prairie could have a dedicated
representative on the MAC Commission. Sigel explained that for the last ten years there
has been a bill introduced each year that would change the makeup of the Commission.
As a Commission, they have not necessarily felt it was necessary to change the makeup
because others have different opinions about whether or not someone from
Bloomington should be on the Commission because a number of flights fly over that
municipality. Planes also fly over other municipalities and they too feel they should
have a direct representative on the Commission. Michelson said he was not asking to
add members to the Commission but to convert one of the positions to an Eden Prairie
representative. King indicated that there has not been any Legislator in Eden Prairie
who has proposed such a bill. He stated that a change in membership would have to go
through the Legislature.
Gentry said that Sigel talked about subsidized funding and she was wondering who
would subsidize the funding. Sigel explained that the actual operations at MSP generate
revenues to fund projects for the entire system. The money that comes in at one airport
is not necessarily expended at that airport. Sigel said she does not think it is
proportional and does not think anyone would recommend proportional expenditure of
funds. MAC tends to think it would be worth putting forth an effort into seeing if they
can make the reliever airports more financially self-sufficient.
Schendel asked Sigel if she believes reliever airports should be self-sufficient or should
they be subsidized by MSP. Sigel responded that she is a realist. One of the reasons
they are doing a comprehensive report is to find out where the opportunities are and
how they use their resources to minimize their surplus. She believes it is their obligation
to have a strong reliever system to support general aviation and schedule air service at
MSP. She also believes that reliever airports being self-sufficient may not necessarily
be achievable. Sigel said they need to determine what they can do to continually bring
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revenue into the system either through sales of property or utilization of property. Leqve
explained that approximately 99 percent of the other airports throughout the state that
are in the reliever system are owned by municipalities. Those airports don't cover their
costs but do receive money from the municipality. For reliever airports to generate
sufficient revenue is a challenge. Sigel said they don't know what tomorrow will bring
and they do have challenges.
Larsen asked if MAC has been approached by businesses or individuals with specific
interests in moving to Flying Cloud because of the plans for a new hangar area. Sigel
responded that the only conversations she has had were with existing Flying Cloud
tenants. Larsen asked if they have a need for the new hangar area because new clients
will come to Eden Prairie or is it based on financial models. King explained that the
Executive Director and Chair of MAC had a meeting with business tenants about the
expansion. There were about 15 businesses that are currently on the airport property
that had one or two representatives at that meeting to hear about the expansion plans
and the potential development of the south terminal area. There was a lot of interest
among the current tenants to potentially expand and modernize their footprint. Larsen
asked if that means some of the hangars will be updated or would they move to the new
facility. King responded that the hangars being updated are not owned by those
corporations. It appears that people are waiting for the improvements to be completed.
McVey asked if the urgency to get construction started was because of the
environmental studies coming to an end of their life and if the construction to be started
next fall is jeopardized. Leqve said the fall construction is not in any jeopardy. The
environmental work is completed.
On behalf of the Commission, King expressed his appreciation to Sigel for attending
this meeting. He said if there is anything this Commission can do to assist MAC they
would be happy to work with them.
B. City Ordinance to Establish Airport Zoning District
Kipp reported that the City started looking at establishing an airport zoning district six
or seven years ago. Staff is now proposing to amend the City Code by adding sections
relating to airport zoning. With the expansion of the airport, the upgrading of facilities
and the development of new facilities, the City is looking at ways of establishing
building design criteria, building material requirements and airport safety zoning
protection approach areas. Kipp said staff is eager to begin this process and to work
with MAC to define zoning standards for the airport so that it becomes part of the
community in terms of design, standards, etc. He indicated that MAC is putting together
something similar to what the City is proposing and he encourages MAC to work with
them in developing this information.
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Gentry asked what was happening with the construction of Pioneer Trail in relationship
to the airport and the gates. Kipp responded that part of that project involved some
historical property. There is a study underway to look at some additional criteria that the
Federal government wants to take a look at. Right now they are waiting to do the
project next spring so that the process can be reviewed and approved.
Kipp said staff is asking that the Commission look at this ordinance and provide him
with any recommended changes and/or additions. This ordinance has not yet gone to the
City Council. Kipp said he would e-mail the Commission a copy of the proposed
ordinance with the changes highlighted.
C. FCAAC Presentation to City Council, November 18, 2008
Kipp reported that every year each Commission of the City has the opportunity to go
before the City Council to give them a brief update on what they are working on.
November 18 is the date that this Commission will be making their presentation to the
Council.
King said he is open to any suggestions as to what the Commission would like to
present to the Council. He said one of the main items to present would be the
construction taking place at Flying Cloud and also discussion regarding night-time
flights. Larsen suggested they mention the community forum this Commission held.
King said the presentation would include airport construction projects, night-time
flights, the community forum and the enhanced flight tracking. He said they would also
mention City sewer and water being installed at Flying Cloud. King indicated that he
and Kipp would develop the topics and if any Commission members had any additional
items they would like discussed they should let Kipp know. The entire Commission is
invited to the meeting and King said he would introduce those members in attendance
to the Council.
VI. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
A. Web Trends Report on City's Airport Website
King explained that the data captured from the City's airport website was included in
the Commission's agenda material. McKewan was going to make a presentation on this
information but was called out of town. King asked that the Commission members
review this information and suggested that they review the information further at the
next meeting when McKewan is present.
B. Metropolitan Council's Technical Advisory Committee - Aviation
Kipp reported that the Met Council is updating their Transportation Policy Plan and has
scheduled outreach meetings to review those plans. A schedule of those meetings was
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included in the Commission's agenda material. This plan includes all modes of
transportation and not just aviation. They have just begun the process of forecasting
operations for the metropolitan area. There is a lot of the policy plan in place and once
they obtain those numbers they will start to look at the reliever system and other
airports to see if any enhancements need to be made. Kipp said he also included a
preliminary draft of the aviation chapter and summary policy statements. This
information gives the Commission a broad overview of how the Met Council is looking
at the airport system. The Met Council will adopt the Transportation Plan in December,
2009. Kipp indicated that these draft chapters are available for viewing on the Met
Council website. He stated that he would provide the Commission with additional
information as it is received.
VII. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC
A. City Manager Request for Management Audit of Final Agreement
King reported that the City Manager has requested an audit of the Final Agreement
between the City and MAC and both parties have agreed to the audit.
King also reported that in a letter to the editor, the Mayor stated that the City Council
has directed this Commission to work with the City Attorney in drafting a letter for the
Council to send to the FAA on night-time flights. King said he was not sure what the
Mayor or Council's intent is but he believes they want to make some changes to the
night-time voluntary restrictions. Michelson suggested they go to other communities
like Santa Monica to get additional information from them as to how they have
addressed these same issues. These communities may be a good resource. King said that
is a good idea and that he would discuss this with the City Manager. There may be a
couple communities they can contact to find out what they have done and find out what
has worked better for them. King asked that if any Commissioners had any further
suggestions they forward them to Kipp. He indicated that he would be talking with the
City Manager to determine what the City is willing to say.
Leqve pointed out that the FAA is no different than the Federal Highway
Administration. They are in charge of managing larger transportation assets in the
United States and they don't take the concept of restricting those lightly. King
explained that there are a lot of ways to go at this and one possibility is to meet with
someone who is closer to the decision making. Leqve said one of the things the FAA
will want to do is talk to the users. Michelson said that the FAA must be aware that
night-time flights are a big issue because more and more communities are asking the
same question. If this issue continues to grow they will have to respond in some way.
McVey said he does not know where the City will get with the FAA. Locally, they have
talked to some of the corporate pilots and they are not opposed to voluntary restrictions.
He said they would have no problem with turning to the south and he suggested they
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ask them to do that before going to the FAA. McVey suggested they do a publicity
campaign with the users on exactly what it means and why it is important to fly over the
river bottom. Harris pointed out that the noise abatement plan is pretty detailed in the
pilot manuals. McVey said that is true but pilots don't do their homework. They need to
publicize the noise abatement plan. It is published and out there for the reading but if it
is important enough, they should go out and tell the airport users. Skramstad said they
have one of the most aggressive informational campaigns on getting the word out to the
pilots. Even though the preferred noise abatement is to the south of the Minnesota River
and when pilots use that route, MAC receives calls from residents south of the airport.
This doesn't really solve the problem.
Leqve said that in the context of night-time operations, they have sent out 136 letters in
the past two months to operators and 75 percent of those operators are repeat offenders.
They are conducting that operation because they have to and they will tell us that is the
nature of their business. Every time they operate we send them a letter and initially
when the pilots respond they are receptive. But as this continues, the letters make them
feel harassed and the good will between the two sides is gone. Leqve said he feels that
writing letters to the FAA asking them to close the airport down at night could result in
unintended consequences. King stated that this Commission has been directed to work
with the City Attorney to send something to the FAA and they will have to figure out
what that is.
Michelson suggested that rather than continue writing letters to those operators that are
required to fly during night-time, they give them something like a night-time pass. It
doesn't make sense to continually send them letters when they are obviously required to
fly during restricted hours. Michelson said he believes what they are trying to get rid of
are those flights that have no reason for flying at that hour. Skramstad said he agrees
with Michelson. They may want to send a letter out and then not send another one for a
one-year period as long as the pilot has reviewed the procedures and checked out the
information. King said that's a good recommendation and it is a good alternative they
should look at in about two months. This may also be part of the proposed audit and
could be discussed during that audit.
Michelson said they may want to go to the FAA and tell them what creative ideas this
Commission has developed with regard to night-time flights and ask them to come up
with some other creative ideas. King stated that they will work on the letter to the FAA
and will look at including the suggestion of trying to eliminate redundant letters
generated for legitimate business purposes.
B. Noise Complaints/Stage 2 Operations Report (July-August)
Skramstad introduced Aaron Frase, Noise Operations Information Specialist for MAC.
He explained that Frase assists him in preparing the operations information. Gentry
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complimented Skramstad on the job he does in tracking the flights and sending out the
letters. She appreciates his feedback and his work with the residents when they call.
Skramstad presented an overview of noise complaints for Flying Cloud Airport for July
and August, 2008. He reported that there were a total of 618 complaints for that time
period from 53 different households. One resident filed one-third of the total
complaints. Seventy-five percent of the operators received more than one letter and one
operator received 25 letters. To date, that operator has received 86 letters. This operator
stated that all of their night-time flights are life source flights. Michelson said if they do
decide to give operators a"pass" they need to explain to them what they are doing so
that the letters don't just stop coming. Gentry said if this is something they decide to do
it is important that they let the public know this is what they are doing. Larsen said he
feels the public will be angry if this Commission is giving users the authority to ignore
the voluntary noise restriction. King said this would also require changing some of the
language in the Final Agreement. Harris explained that they know who those operators
are that fly during the night time and they could meet with those tenants more
frequently in person. Larsen said he is not disagreeing with the thought of granting a
"pass" but he thinks they need to be careful. If they do something like that, they need to
do something else to mollify the situation. Leqve said they may just want to meet with
the unique operators and tell them that this Commission is aware of what's happening
with regard to the letters being sent. They could also tell them that they may see some
letters forthcoming and that this Commission will be addressing this issue in the
coming months.
Skramstad explained that as of September 10, there were a total of 2,023 complaints
received for Flying Cloud Airport. With the RNC there were a few extra flights as a
result of operators relocating to Flying Cloud. From September 1 to September 5, there
were 114 complaints. Ninety two of those complaints were related to early/late
operations due to a small cargo operation located at MSP relocating to Flying Cloud
due to flight restrictions.
VIII. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
A. Life Link III Helicopter Flight Tracks (July - August)
Skramstad reported that there were 144 Life Link departures compared to 238 for the
prior two months. There were 25 complaints from 18 households for July and August.
Out of the 25 complaints, 15 were for operations during night-time hours and 12 were
related to Life Link operations. McVey asked how Flying Cloud compares to the
number of complaints with other airports. Skramstad responded that Flying Cloud has
many more complaints than other airports. McVey asked what is so unique about Eden
Prairie. Skramstad stated that the expansion of the airport is an item of concern for the
residents. Eden Prairie is an organized community and they are aware of the expansion.
Harris explained that the biggest difference between Eden Prairie and Anoka for
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
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Page 10
example is that the residents of Anoka County see the airport as a value to the
community and they want to expand the airport. He stated that it is difficult to compare
the airports. The volume of complaints isn't as great but the issues are still the same.
Skramstad said another difference is that Flying Cloud has done a good job of educating
the residents as to what is in the Final Agreement. They know that MAC has to take
some action on complaints. Since 2003 when the operational implementation plan
became effective they have seen complaints go up year after year.
Schendel suggested that, with regard to helicopter complaints, they inform Life Link
that there is a significant difference in the flight track now than a year ago and that they
tell them that if it is not an emergency flight they make the approach over the river
valley.
IX. NEW BUSINESS
Harris reported that the Air Expo was a success. There were not as many attendees this year
as there have been in the past but they did have favorable weather.
Harris presented a report on the construction projects that are occurring at Flying Cloud.
The north parallel runway extension will add 300 feet onto the runway. They are scheduled
to put the runway back into service on October 4. Harris stated that the sewer and water
project is also moving along on budget and time. The system west of the Thunderbird has
been tested and five tenants have executed sewer and water agreements with MAC and are
in the process of obtaining City permits to hook up this fall. A restroom facility by Gate G
will be constructed for the tenants.
Harris reported that during the RNC the Eden Prairie Police worked very well with MAC,
the tower and the TSA and they all appreciated their support.
Harris informed the Commission that the fall operator meeting was held early this year
because of the RNC. They did not select an operator of the year yet but will probably do
that in the upcoming months. Flying Cloud has had a little more than 80,000 operations at
the end of August, down 2,800 operations from last year.
X. OTHER BUSINESS
Kipp reported that he did send out the report on the review of airport security to the City
Council.
King said that the majority of their next meeting will be dedicated to developing the
Commission's end of the year report and next year's work plan. He said they would still
like to have the new Executive from Life Link speak to the Commission at some point.
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Various FYI Items:
• Approved FCAAC minutes of May 8, 2008 and June 12, 2008 Informational Meeting
• MAC Commission Memos on Flying Cloud Airport
• Various Airport/Aviation Related News Articles
• E-mail Regarding Taxes Generated at Airport
• E-mail from Wyle Aviation Service: Commentary
• Letters to Student Representative from Mayor
• Report to Council on Review of Airport Security
• FAA Flight Advisory on RNC
• Flyer on Groundbreaking for Airport Expansion Project
• Next Commission Meeting Scheduled for November 13, 2008
XI. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Motion was made by Michelson, seconded by Gentry, to adjourn the meeting.
Motion carried, 6-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.