Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 01/10/2008 APPROVED MINUTES FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION THURSDAY,JANUARY 10, 2008 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER Heritage Rooms 1 & 2 8080 Mitchell Road COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Rick King, Vice-Chair Jeff Larsen, Commissioners: Joe Harris, Greg McKewan, Mark Michelson and Kurt Schendel COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Brad Stratton VISITORS: Lauren Neuman, Zero Expansion Scott Skramstad, MAC STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner Carol Pelzel, City Recorder I. CALL TO ORDER Chair King called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Schendel, to approve the agenda as presented. Motion carried, 6-0. III. PUBLIC COMMENT Pat MulQueeny, 11455 Viking Dr., said he is the President of the Eden Prairie Chamber of Commerce. He thanked the Commission members for their work and for providing them with the opportunity for dialogue between the community and businesses on the airport. MulQueeny stated that the Chamber has been a long time supporter of Flying Cloud Airport and he spoke in support of it. The airport has an $80 million economic impact to the area and creates 700 jobs. Larry Degner, 11805 Runnel Ct., said that April 5 of this year will mark the 54"' anniversary of the first time he landed at the Flying Cloud Airport. He moved to Eden Prairie to be close to the airport and wouldn't want it any other way. Degner said he feels strongly that they must support the airport. It is a vital link and Flying Cloud is a gold mine for economic development. It pours money into the economy and provides jobs and taxes. Richard Sedgwick, 14016 Spring Lake Rd., Minnetonka, explained that his association with Flying Cloud Airport began in 1980. He operates an aircraft for Target Corporation out of MSP; he owns a hangar at Flying Cloud and is a Northwest Airlines customer. There appears to be polarization with the airlines and general aviation and some miscommunication. Sedgwick said he flies a corporate airplane and they do not fly their FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 2 airplanes for personal use. The importance of reliever airports can't be overstated. Without expanding and supporting reliever airports the situation becomes worse. Sedgwick explained that he is sensitive to the people who live near the airport and their concern for the expansion and they, as aviators, try to be good neighbors in the way they operate at airports. They all need one another. Sedgwick said he does not think the answers are black and white. It is a combination of things that will bring a solution to the problems in aviation. The expansion and support of Flying Cloud is extremely important. Bill Ruff, 11798 Tanglewood Dr., said Flying Cloud is an economic impact for the area and brings jobs to the community. The airport is there and he is not suggesting they get rid of it. He knew the airport was there when he moved to Eden Prairie. He also realizes it is an economic impact and that it is on a very valuable piece of land. Ruff said that in considering the highest and best use of this land it would be a mixed use. A mixed use would bring in more jobs and real estate and sales taxes. The income from a mixed use would dwarf what the airport is bringing into the city. Ruff said it was also his understanding that the airport does not pay property taxes. He does not believe that property used for a public airport is on the property rolls. The city is basically donating land to be used by the airport and his property taxes go to the city for those taxes lost. Ruff said he is in favor of keeping the airport but if they are talking about expansion, he feels there are viable alternatives. He believes expanding the airport would not bring any benefits to him as a member of the community. Those flying out of MSP pay more for a ticket to fund Flying Cloud's expansion. Ruff said he is also concerned about security at Flying Cloud. Ron Case, 9237 LaRiver Ct., stated that he served on the City Council and was the city's chief negotiator with MAC and a signer on the final agreement. This is a very complicated issue and he respects a lot of different viewpoints. Case reminded the Commission that he was part of the reason that the Commission was brought back into existence. The original intent of reinstating this Commission was primarily to speak on behalf of the people of Eden Prairie. The negative impacts of the airport are borne primarily by 95 percent of the people living in the City and if the City Council doesn't speak on their behalf, who will represent the people on the negative impacts. If this Commission doesn't present people's concerns to the City Council, the reason for bringing the Commission back to existence would not be accomplished. Tim Ashenfelter, 14801 Pioneer Trail, explained that he is a fixed base operation at Flying Cloud and has owned his business since 1983. He further explained that the airport operators pay taxes on their buildings. They do not pay taxes on the real estate but they do pay personal property taxes based on the commercial rate. Ashenfelter said his business paid $150,000 in personal property taxes to Hennepin County and approximately 80 percent of that amount comes back to the city and school district. With regard to a better use of the land, Ashenfelter explained that his business employs 65 people and he pays employment taxes, medical and health care plus his business provides income for those 65 families. His is only one business of the 25 to 30 businesses located at Flying Cloud. Ashenfelter said he sells airplanes and for every plane sold, 6.5 percent of the value of that FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 3 airplane goes to the State's general fund. Last year he sold roughly $10 million in airplanes and paid roughly $60,000 in sales tax. All of this is coming from Flying Cloud Airport. Ashenfelter pointed out that the runway expansion is not to increase the volume of traffic but to allow them to change with the times. Technology and aircraft design has changed in the last 25 years. The engines are smaller, more fuel efficient and quieter. Those are the airplanes that need the longer runway and they are quieter than 99 percent of the existing airplanes. Ashenfelter said that the runway extension will bring new airplanes into the system that are quieter and climb faster. These airplanes will have less of an impact on the community than airplanes 25 years ago. Ashenfelter said it is frustrating for him to hear that general aviation doesn't pay their fair share and that ticket taxes are increased. It has also been stated that the general fund makes up the difference for the Airport Trust Fund monies. That is not true. The general fund spends the Airport Trust Fund money. The General Aviation contributes a lot more percentage than the State does. There is a lot of misinformation going around. Ashenfelter said that he has been an airport operator for 25 years and they are trying to be good neighbors. This airport has not had a runway extension for 25 to 30 years and technology has changed. They need a longer runway. There is a lot of money generated from Flying Cloud that helps this Community and the State and it will be a benefit in the future and will continue to be a benefit. Dave Ward stated that he is past president of the Eden Prairie Chamber of Commerce and currently a member of the Chamber. Even though he is not a resident of Eden Prairie, he has worked in the city for 17 years. He eats and shops in Eden Prairie. Ward said that many times they neglect to realize that businesses are a key element to the vitality of their community. The city is very dependent on the businesses that locate here. Ward stated that businesses locate in Eden Prairie because of their transportation system. It is not efficient for businesses to use MSP. Businesses need an efficient way to move teams of people to different parts of the country. The most efficient way to do that is to use corporate airplanes to get their employees back home. Ward said that Flying Cloud and an expanded airport is important for those employees to move around the country and to be safe. An expanded, improved Flying Cloud airport is very important to businesses and to attract key businesses and to improve the vitality of the community. Dexter Clark, Representing Execuair, 1200 North Queen, Minneapolis, explained that he is a frequent user of Flying Cloud Airport but is not a resident of the city. He spends approximately 80 percent of his time in Eden Prairie. He is a corporate pilot and owns four small airplanes. Clark spoke in support of Flying Cloud Airport. When he has the opportunity to bring customers into Eden Prairie, they recognize the opportunities that are here in this community. Kim Vohs, 15900 N. Hillcrest Court, said he is concerned with the expansion of the airport but also objects to the subsidy the airport receives and the loss of revenue for the city. They talked about the taxes the airport users pay but if the land were used for anything else the tax revenue would be significantly more than what the airport generates. MAC subsidizes the airport and customers subsidize MAC when they purchase airline tickets. MAC is FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 4 seeking FAA funds to pay for the expansion and those funds are taxpayer dollars. Vohs said he did not like subsidizing the airport in so many ways and losing revenue to the city. Paul Ehlen, 6993 Kenmare Drive, Bloomington, explained that he is a multiple aircraft owner and a private owner of a medical device business that covers a nine-state area. His company and employees contribute a lot to the tax base. He never would have been able to grow his business without general aviation. Ehlen said he lives in Bloomington and stayed in Bloomington because of his proximity to Flying Cloud Airport. This is a great airport and he would love to see it expanded. He is a real believer that they have brought a lot of value to the State tax rolls. IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A.November 8, 2007 Minutes Michelson asked that the first sentence of the fifth paragraph on Page 7 be changed to read "Michelson stated that non-aeronautical development was planned in Anoka ...." and that the sixth sentence in that same paragraph be changed to read "Michelson also asked if Lanners said MAC is ....." Michelson asked that on Page 8, the second paragraph, third sentence, be changed to read "Michelson explained that the GA gives only about two to three percent to the Aviation Trust Fund. General aviation relies on the General Fund from taxpayers to cover any shortfall in the Aviation Trust Fund." King asked that under X. Other Business, second paragraph, last sentence, the words "and March" be added after January. MOTION: Larsen moved, seconded by Michelson, to approve the November 8, 2007 minutes as amended. Motion carried 6-0. V. DISCUSSION ITEMS A. Guest Speaker—Lauren Neuman, Zero Expansion King introduced Lauren Neuman, a representative of Zero Expansion. King said he invited Neuman to speak on behalf of the Zero Expansion group to review their goals and mission. He asked that she tell the Commission what they do, what they are interested in and what is on their agenda. Neuman introduced herself and explained how she became involved with Zero Expansion. She served on this Commission in the past and she is pleased to see that representatives from the aviation industry are here this evening. In 1999 she and her family thought they had found the perfect house and moved to Eden Prairie from Minneapolis. One month after they moved into their home she saw in the newspaper that Flying Cloud Airport was proposing an expansion. Neuman said she felt they were informed buyers but had never seen any information about the proposed expansion. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 5 Because of that proposed expansion, she became involved in the public hearings and was asked to join the Commission. Neuman explained that Zero Expansion consists of residents that don't have a political agenda but are concerned about the airport. She reviewed the Zero Expansion goals including being educated and informed and explained that they are advocates for residents affected by airport issues. Neuman said she was very disappointed when the original Commission was disbanded because it broke the dialogue with MAC. She stated that she joined Zero Expansion because she was impressed with the commitment and dedication of the people and they had a lot of good information about the aviation industry. They do try to represent the voices of residents. They feel that the residents lost their voice to work for solutions to the airport and Zero Expansion's role is to serve as that voice. Neuman reviewed proactive steps for noise issues, pollution issues and updated analyses. With regard to noise issues, residents feel that the voluntary nighttime restriction is ineffective. She was told that letters are sent to violators and they are suggesting that they go one step further and identify the violator by company name and assign an identification number to that violator and post that on MAC's website. This would allow residents to identify the violator of the curfew. Neuman explained that they are trying to find ways for residents to get a better perspective on what is going on. This information would provide legitimacy and trends to the residents. It would also allow the violator to remain anonymous but would give additional information to the residents. Companies don't like receiving these letters or to be identified and publishing this information would be further incentive for users to abide by the curfew. Neuman also mentioned that when a complaint is filed via the internet, the complainant does not receive any additional information as to the status of their complaint. Harris explained that companies that receive the violation letters take them very seriously. They want to be good citizens and they will do everything possible to avoid receiving those letters. Chad Leqve, MAC representative, said they must consider that MAC has to follow federal policy with regard to the curfew violations. They are also dealing with noise issues around MSP and MAC is trying to do everything possible within the confines of Federal policy. They cannot restrict operations at Flying Cloud or MSP. Neuman said she understands that MAC has to follow Federal policy but if the residents were able to see that it is a particular company violating the curfew they may understand that there is nothing that can be done about it. They need to find a way for residents to get a better understanding of who is flying when. Residents who complain about nighttime noise need to receive more information about those nighttime flights. She suggested that they use the Airport Noise and Operations Monitoring System(ANOMS) to pull data from 2003 to the present to see what the trend is for nighttime flights. This would show if the curfew is having any affect and help residents understand what is going on with nighttime flights. Neuman said the only time nighttime flights are investigated is when someone complains. If they use ANOMS data they could look at all of the nighttime flights. She said they are suggesting that they use FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 6 ANOMS data in addition to the complaints to investigate all nighttime flights and following the procedures on all violators for select months and provide that data on MAC's website. They should also use ANOMS to verify each aircraft is using flight paths to minimize noise as directed in the Noise Abatement Plan as traffic patterns for take offs and landings. Neuman also suggested that there be some type of incentive program for FBO's for a specific time period where there are no nighttime flights or for following preferred routes. Neuman explained that residents are concerned about increased noise after the runway expansion. MAC needs to get the facts out there. She suggested that they use Integrated Noise Model (INM) 7.0 for more accurate noise curves and provide that information in an updated EIS. MAC needs to have updated information and to use a more updated noise curve. They need to stop the spin and not to minimize the residents' concerns. MAC needs to present the facts and tell the residents if the noise will be worse when the expansion is completed. People deserve factual information. The more information that is made public, the better the relationship with the citizens will be. Neuman said using factual data will be a positive thing. Neuman said that Zero Expansion is also concerned about pollution. She suggested MAC disclose current and future hazardous emissions and construct a new hangar area to minimize taxi time and idling. She also suggested that they watch the South Coast Air Quality Management District web cast on February 13. This web cast will discuss aircraft emissions impact on air quality and technology and strategies to reduce it. Neuman indicated that the FAA knows that pollution from aviation has an impact on residents as demonstrated by its study on reduced thrust. Aircraft emissions are real. She said they need to discuss it and find solutions. Neuman stated that there also needs to be an updated analysis. MAC needs to provide information on property devaluation and to possibly do a study similar to what the FAA did. They evaluated the impact aircraft have on property values. Neuman asked if the Crystal Airport closes, would this cause changes to the operations at Flying Cloud Airport. She pointed out that a lot has changed since the late 1980's when the expansion was first proposed. Neuman suggested MAC look at what technology could be used so the expansion does not have to be done. She asked what could be done to minimize taxing and idling to reduce air pollution and save fuel costs. They need to look at finding solutions for these issues. On behalf of the Commission, King thanked Neuman for speaking to the Commission and for the suggestions that were made. He said they would definitely discuss those suggestions at an upcoming meeting and he appreciates the thought she put into her presentation. King said he agrees that they need to get as much information to the public as possible. He pointed out that this Commission spent considerable time on updating the city's website and putting as much information on that site as possible. The Commission also looks at noise reports at each of their meetings. All of the complaints are listed and the report shows the repeat offenders. They also review the FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 7 flight paths and the helicopter noise and once those reports are reviewed they are posted on the web. King said this Commission believes it is important that noise information is available and pretty much everything is put on the city's website. The Commission will look at the information they have and will have conversations with MAC to see if there is additional information that can be made available. Schendel said that when this Commission was first put together the public perceived it to be pro airport and he is not sure that is correct. He explained that the Commission members come from different backgrounds and they all have their own ideas. The City Council charged this group to cooperate with MAC staff in reviewing the benefit that the airport suggests for Eden Prairie and to advise the City Council and MAC on matters affecting the airport as a result of what is going on with the airport. This Commission is also to receive input from airport operators and citizens. Neuman said it is different now than when she was on the Commission. Residents' perception is a lot of things. Schendel said there is a difference from eight years ago. There are more residents in the city and a different City Council. This Commission is trying to be as diverse as they can and they all have their own views. Michelson asked for an explanation of the INM 7.0. Neuman explained that it is a substantive integrated noise model that generates noise curves. It is a software program function that inputs factors in and generates the noise curve. McKewan suggested that Neuman visit the city's website since there is a lot of good information on it regarding Flying Cloud Airport and the work this Commission has done. Harris explained that MAC is extremely committed to working with the agreement negotiated. However, some of the issues brought up this evening are not part of that agreement. He indicated that Neuman did bring up some good points. MAC needs to look at how they can continue to spread the message of what they expect of an operator at Flying Cloud Airport between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. They need to continue to work on those issues. Harris also explained that they are somewhat controlled by the FAA as to what they can publish with regards to noise issues and noise abatement procedures. Harris stated that a lot of credit has to go to this Commission. Because of suggestions from this Commission, they posted information regarding the nighttime curfew in the flight room and attached it to the vehicle slits. This enabled them to get the information to transient pilots. This Commission has helped them think outside of the box. Harris pointed out that the City survey about what's on people's minds in Eden Prairie showed that the airport was a small percentage of that sampling. Kipp reported that the top ten list of citizen issues from that survey included Flying Cloud Airport but it was further down on the list. Neuman said that when the city entered into the agreement with MAC,people gave up. They felt it was over and out of their hands. She said she does not think they can look FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 8 at the survey and be convinced that Eden Prairie people don't care about noise or airport impact. Leqve said that in her presentation Neuman said that people feel that there is a lack of information available to the general public. He asked her to elaborate on that. They have put a lot of time and effort into developing their website to make sure they are in step with the operational plan. He asked what she feels, at the website level, that they should be doing different. Neuman responded that ANOMS data showing whether nighttime flights have increased or decreased be placed on the website. Leqve said that there are many ways to analyze ANOMS data. He asked if she is looking for a nighttime operations report. Neuman said she was and that they should be able to capture 90 percent of the nighttime flights. She suggested that they use ANOMS data instead of only relying on residents that call to complain. Leqve said the reason they are doing what they are doing is because they negotiated an agreement with the city. Neuman pointed out that the resident perception is that the voluntary curfew is not working. Leqve explained that the information Neuman is asking them for may be difficult to gather with their limited staff resources. They have one person handling all of the noise complaints from MSP and Flying Cloud. Also, they have had significant discussions with the city with regard to how they will implement the agreement between MAC and the city and they have done that. It is always their goal to make sure they are doing the best possible job to get the information out to the public. There are different perspectives in wanting to look at the information and they are trying to help the people get that information. Judy Gentry, 9776 Pickett Drive, said she did not know about the runway expansion when she purchased her home. She was wondering how many of the people here tonight live near the airport and is awakened at night because of airport noise. Gentry said there must be a solution between those people who use and need the airport and those residents who live near the airport. She realizes that business is important and it is important to Eden Prairie and their residents. There are two sides to this issue and she asked that they think about the residents. Vicky Pellar-Price, 16893 Bainbridge Drive, explained that airport noise is a national issue and they need to work together to make it better. Pellar-Price said tonight's effort was to try and build a bridge. There seems to be a real problem with noise and pollution and if they are going to solve it they need to talk to each other. Ashenfelter pointed out that many of the people in attendance at tonight's meeting are from the airport side. He stated that he has been talking about this issue for 25 years and he feels that there were false statements presented this evening. Neuman asked what information was false. She said it is important to get the facts out to the public. Neuman clarified with Ashenfelter some of the information discussed in her presentation. Ashenfelter said it is frustrating for him because they have spent FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 9 thousands of dollars to try to do the right thing. He also questions the number of nighttime flights. He cannot believe there are that many flights at night. They have gone back and forth so many times with noise abatement data and noise monitoring. Neuman stated that this expansion was proposed back in the 1980's and has not happened. She said that leaves the question of the necessity of the expansion. There have been a lot of impacts on the aviation industry since that time. If you are running a business, you always want updated information. This expansion has not happened for 20 years and the businesses are still thriving. She questioned if the expansion really is necessary. Gary Schmidt, MAC Representative, explained that operations are down but load factors are up. As the economy picks up they will have more operations. MAC does try to share its information with the citizens and they have the largest noise abatement program in the country. They are not trying to hide anything. Schmidt explained that the ANOMS information that Neuman is asking for would require a huge investment for MAC. With regard to her suggestion for an incentive program, Schmidt said he did not know how they could do that. Some flights have to go out at night,particularly the Life Link flights. Floyd Hagen, 15721 Cedar Ridge Road, said that in talking about nighttime noise, the FAA and MAC rely on footprints. It is very possible that with current technology, they could put microphones around the airport to record the noise 24-hours a day. This information could go into a computer that would identify certain periods where noise level is high. This would not require an individual sitting there recording this information. Schmidt responded that this would be difficult to do because it would record all noise, not just airplane noise. Schmidt said it appears that there is the feeling that MAC does not do a good enough job in getting the information out to the people. He said it may be that they are not getting the right information to them. They have to find a better way to work together. Neuman explained that oftentimes people ask for information and MAC doesn't provide it. Pellar-Price said it is obvious there is a split here between what they believe and what MAC believes and they need to accept that. She said they need to understand that MAC isn't always right and that they are not always right. Neuman said she does not think the residents who question or have issues with the expansion of the airport are anti-airport. They are opposed to air pollution and noise. The country could not function without airports. King thanked everyone for their time and for all of the questions and comments. He stated that open communication and dialogue is a necessity. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 10 RECESS A short recess was called at 9:35 p.m. and the meeting was reconvened at 9:50 p.m. B. 2007 Year-End Report and 2008 Goals and Work Plan King explained that included with the Commission's agenda material was a copy of the Commission's Annual Report. Once the Commission approves the report, it will be forwarded to the City Council as part of their workshop scheduled with the Council for March 4. Motion: Larsen moved, seconded by Michelson, to approve the Annual Report as presented. Motion carried, 6-0. C. MAC Capital Improvement Program King asked Harris to report on the action taken with MAC's Capital Improvement Program(CIP). Harris reported that MAC did approve the CIP as submitted by staff at their December meeting. It did include a $4.2 million budget placeholder for sewer water on the north side of Flying Cloud Airport. This project will complete that portion of the sewer and water project. He stated that this project is not reimbursable through FAA grants. It will be 100 percent MAC's responsibility. Harris further reported that the Program also included a 300-foot extension of the north parallel runway, taking it from 3,600 feet to 3,900 feet. The budget placeholder for that project is $900,000. They hope to bid that project in March or April with construction taking place sometime mid to late summer. Harris said he will keep the Commission briefed on both projects as they move forward through the various phases. Harris informed the Commission that on January 28 they will be having a meeting with the operators to brief them on the projects including the impact on Pioneer Trail. They will also inform the operators of changes being made in entering and exiting the airport. Larsen asked if there would be a noticeable difference in the noise level because of shutting down the one runway for extension and traffic being redirected. Skramstad responded that the flights normally taking off of the north parallel runway will be taking off from the south parallel runway. The flight path should be similar. Harris stated that they will also be explaining to their tenants the process for connecting to sewer and water and informing them that existing septic systems will have to be closed. King said they need to do some type of communication to both the City Council and the public as to what is happening at the airport including the runway extension, sewer and water installation, etc. Kipp said he would invite Rod Rue of the City's Engineering Department to the Commission's next meeting to make a presentation on the improvements being proposed for Pioneer Trail. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 11 VI. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS VII. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC A. Noise complaints/Stage 2 Operations Report (November-December) Skramstad presented an overview of noise complaints for Flying Cloud Airport for November and December, 2007. He reported that there were a total of 154 complaints from 23 complainants with 150 filed via internet. Forty-three letters were sent to owners/operators with one operator receiving 14 letters, one operator receiving 11 letters, one operator receiving three letters, two operators receiving two letters and 11 operators receiving one letter. Skramstad said he did have a conversation with the operator receiving the 14 letters and they indicated that they have a charter with an Eden Prairie business that does medical testing. The labs are taken to the airport at 10:15 p.m. and shipped to and back from Sioux Falls. Skramstad said he did tell them about the nighttime curfew and resident concerns. The operator said they would talk to the local vendors to see if they could step up the deliveries to make them earlier in the evening and get them out before 10 p.m. Skramstad reported that the calls received from complainant ID 8 was for helicopter noise. This was a result of a news helicopter circling between Ridgedale, Eden Prairie Mall and Burnsville Mall on the Friday after Thanksgiving. Larsen indicated that earlier in the evening it was stated that people do not hear back from MAC once they file a noise complaint via the internet. Skramstad said that as a result of discussions by this Commission, MAC did institute a return receipt if an e- mail address is included with the complaint. Schendel asked if this is the type of information Zero Expansion would like to see. McKewan said Neuman indicated that this information doesn't always mean anything to the people. Leqve said they do have a programmer on staff who writes interactive query applications and this is something he could look into to see if they can get the information Neuman requested. However, he does have some concerns that once they do this they may be asked to pull together additional information. He questioned where they stop. King said he feels Leqve makes a good point. As a Commission, they can consider the requests for information from the public and once those requests are reviewed, the Commission can ask MAC what impact it would have on them in gathering specific information. This Commission needs to be cognizant of what they are asking of MAC. Leqve explained that the data is there, it's developing an application to pull the information out that may be time consuming. King said he does not believe MAC should take new data requests from residents for a new application. This Commission should be the ones to review the requests since there is an agreement between MAC and the city. Leqve said the information being requested by Neuman is FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 12 meaningful information. King said if it is not a lot of work,he would like MAC to put something together for this Commission's review. VIII. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS A. Life Link III Helicopter Flight Tracks (November-December) Skramstad reported that for the November-December, 2007 time period there were 54 total FCM helicopter complaints from nine total complainants, 53 filed via the internet. There were 30 helicopter complaints that correlate to a non-FCM news helicopter operating on the morning of November 23, 2007. Harris said that Neuman asked what more could be done to work with these operators to get them to abide by the curfew. He indicated that they are trying to work with these operators and they have done a lot of good. The rerouted the Life Link helicopter over the river and they have made positive improvements at the airport including security. King said he believes they have accomplished a lot and they have communicated this but a lot of people don't see that. Harris pointed out that the operators do want to work with them and they respect the work of this body. That was proven this evening by the number of airport operators who were in attendance at this meeting. They are here to work with this Commission and the Commission should use them as a resource. Harris indicated that there is some misinformation regarding the AIP funding. He said they need to get to the bottom of those issues including the tax revenue that is generated because of the airport. Harris suggested that they contact someone from the local FAA office who deals with the grant funding for clarification on the AIP funding. With regard to the tax issues, Harris suggested that they contact Hennepin County to find out how much tax money is collected from airport operations and how that money is distributed to the different taxing jurisdictions. Michelson pointed out that MAC does not pay taxes on 725 of the 750 acres. Harris said that may be true but a lot of people are investing a lot of money out at the airport. They don't like to hear that the airport does not pay any taxes. They feel they are the airport. IX. NEW BUSINESS X. OTHER BUSINESS Kipp reviewed with the Commission the appointment process for Commission members to the FCAAC. Interviews will be held on February 26 with the appointments made on March 4. All terms will begin on April 1. Harris reported that in 2007 they had 118,000 total operations at Flying Cloud, a decrease of about 18 percent from the previous year. They believe the decrease was primarily due to a significant reduction of flights by a helicopter operator that is involved in helicopter training licensing helicopter pilots. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES January 10, 2008 Page 13 Larsen asked if they have found out how many visitors they have had on their website. Kipp said he has is waiting to hear from the IT Department. Larsen said it would be interesting to get the numbers so that they have a base line to work with. • Approved minutes of September 13, 2007 Flying cloud Airport Advisory Commission • Thank you letter to MAC Chairman Lanners • Various aviation related documents from Vicki Price at November 8 FCAAC • MAC staff responses to public questions raised at November 8 FCAAC • Various aviation related news articles • Next Commission meeting is scheduled for March 13, 2008 XI. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Motion was made by Michelson, seconded by McKewan, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried, 6-0. The meeting adjourned at 10:40 p.m.