HomeMy WebLinkAboutBoard of Adjustments and Appeals - 07/09/1992 APPROVED MINUTES
BOARD OF APPEALS AND ADJUSTMENTS
THURSDAY, JULY 9, 1992 7:30 P.M. , CITY HALL COUNCIL
CHAMBERS, 7600 EXECUTIVE DRIVE
EDEN PRAIRIE, MN 55344
BOARD OF APPEALS MEMBERS: HARVEY (Chairman) , ARGUE,
WEEKS, FREEMYER, WILKUS,
ANDERSON# AKEMANN
STAFF PRESENT: JEAN JOHNSON, PLANNING
SHARON STORHOLM, SECRETARY
BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT: ANDERSON, ARGUE, AKEMANN
I. CALL OR ORDER -- ROLL CALL -- PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Chairman Harvey called the meeting to order at 7:30 P.M. The
Pledge of Allegiance was spoken and roll call was taken as
noted above.
II. MINUTES OF JUNE 12,1992 MEETING
Harvey noted that on page 2, next to last paragraph, he had
• asked about the new house. Also, on page 4, he had asked
when and where the proponent had other similar experience.
On page 8, third paragraph from the bottom, Omlie had said
the porch was a four season structure. He added that he did
not second the motions on pages 13 and 14. It was decided
that Freemyer and Weeks had done so respectively.
Wilkus noted that the penalty of $100 referred to in the
motion for 92-012 was per week. He suggested that the last
sentence (referring to the motion passing) be changed to
reflect that the amendment was accepted.
After Johnson checked on the structuring of the penalties
for non completion of the phases of construction for 92-012,
it was decided that the minutes were correct.
MOTION: Wilkus moved that the Board approve the minutes as
amended. Freemyer seconded the motion and it
passed 4-0.
III. VARIANCES
Harvey explained the variance procedure and order for the
benefit of those in the audience.
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A. Request #92-015 by Coleman Griffing at 11073 Bluestem Lane
is for a variance to permit a deck 3 feet from the rear lot
line. Code requires a 20 foot setback. Chapter 11, Section
11.03, Subdivision 3. , Table 1.
No proponent was in attendance to present the request.
Johnson noted that she did try to reach Griffing two weeks
ago and again today. She could not reach him. She suggested
that the request be continued for one month and if no action
has been taken at that time, remove the item from the
agenda.
MOTION: Freemyer moved that the Variance Request 92-015 be
continued until the next meeting. Weeks seconded
the motion and it passed unanimously.
B. Request #92-016 by Fred Pederson of 7683 Paulsen Drive to
permit construction of a deck on the Dell Road side of the
lot which will be 25.5 feet from the property line.
Mr. Pederson came forward to present the variance request.
He said that there was no expansion room by his home with
Dell Road coming in. He submitted photos of the area in
question. He said that the deck will not be seen and will
• still be 60' from Dell Road. If built to code, the deck
would be 18' by 7' and would not enhance the home at all. He
had considered lowering the structure in order to increase
the size, but then it would be in front of the garden view
windows. The proposed deck would be made of cedar, and
stained the same color as the home.
Johnson said she had checked the Dell Road design plans. The
deck will be 60' from the curb when the road in installed.
The deck will meet the intent of the code, but not the
physical set back. No comments were received from neighbors
after the notices were sent out.
Weeks asked what process was used in working with the
builder.
Pederson said they had told the builder what they wanted
when they purchased the lot and he was aware that they
wanted to put a deck on the home. If he had known of this
complication, he would have changed house plans or selected
another lot.
Weeks asked if there was a process wherein this type of
problem could be addressed.
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Johnson said in some instances (if sliding door, etc) the
city can check it. The Planning Dept does not get a copy of
the house elevations and changes can occur during the
building process.
Weeks asked if the deck was in line with the neighbors deck.
Pederson answered that the neighboring house is set askew,
but the proposed deck is almost in line with the corner of
the neighbor's deck.
Wilkus said that he felt this was an instance of hardship by
existing conditions. This property has three frontages.
Freemyer agreed that three frontages is unique.
Harvey said that the right of way for Dell Road has been the
same since the plat was approved. He asked for comments from
the audience, but there were none.
MOTION: Weeks moved that the Board approve Variance
Request 92-016 citing the hardship that the
property has three front yards which leaves very
little room for expansion. This was an existing
condition of the property. Wilkus seconded the
motion and it passed 4-0.
C. Request #92-017 by Wooddale Church of 6630 Shady Oak Road
for permission to install 4 on-site directional signs
totally 246 square feet (Code maximum is 36 square feet) .
One sign is 3 feet width (Code maximum is 1 112 feet) .
Three of the four signs are 10 feet in height (Code maximum
is 8 feet) .
Trustee Roy Clarke came forward to present the variance. He
said that three others and a design engineer had accompanied
him to this meeting. He had made visuals for the Board's
review. This has been a two year project of studies and
surveys. The church has 31 acres. There are 1300+ parking
spots not being utilized. Better signage is needed. The
first proposal for 16 additional signs, but their desire was
to keep appearances good and free of clutter.
The slides outlined the problems and suggested solutions.
They listed the objectives of the group and showed the
layout of the area, both front and back. Also included was a
slide of a sign from another facility. He noted that they
wanted interior lighting on the signs. Four signs are
proposed, three of which will be large signs and one will be
smaller. Sign A is a three face internally lit sign that
would be located 580' down off Shady Oak Road. Sign B would
• be on Bryant Lake Road. It would have 2 faces and be located
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. 55' from the center of Bryant Lake Road. Sign C would be
275' from Bryant Lake towards the front of the church and
would designate visitor parking. Sign D would be 550' in
from Bryant Lake Drive. It would be a two faced sign and
internally lit. This would encourage people to use the back
exit.
Johnson noted that about 1 and one half years ago, the City
changed sign code. Six square feet was set for maximum size.
Total on site signage was set to be no more than 36 sq. ft.
Prior to that change, up to 32 sq. ft. were allowed and
there was no maximum on how many could be used. It was
judged upon need. The request is a significant amount over
the maximum. The figures are a result of computing the
entire height and width of the structure. Possibly the mass
of the sign underneath could be reduced (the area not needed
for printing) . Code specifies a maximum of 18" between
faces, and this request is for a sign that is 36" between
faces. There were no negative comments after letters were
sent out.
Harvey asked why the change in code had taken place.
Johnson answered that there were not a lot of businesses
using the maximum at that time. Fast food reader boards are
under a different section of the code. She added that when
• calculating footage, both sides are used. Both are also used
when calculating the fee schedule, when the message is
different.
Harvey asked if a speed limit was posted.
Clarke answered no, there was not. The problem area is on
Shady Oak Road where people get too slow. It is their desire
to keep traffic moving. Sunday traffic is not considered an
issue - it is the visitor traffic that causes problems. They
designed sign A higher in order to make it visible over the
berm. He would like people to see that there is additional
parking in back. Better use of parking spaces can be made.
Freemyer commended the committee for a thorough job. He did
feel that the signs were overwhelming to a degree. Possibly
the hardship could be a safety issue as the problem on Shady
Oak would be alleviated. He would like to see the mass
reduced on the signs.
Clarke said the height is as suggested in order for everyone
to clearly see the signs, and to eliminate problems with
shrubbery or snow plowing.
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• Freemyer felt that 8' should be adequate for height. The
amount of variance should be reduced. He would suggest a
continuance and redesigning of the signs.
Wilkus noted that the proponent is trying to accomplish the
task for 31 acres with this signage. Fast food places can
get the same footage for only one acre.
Clarke said they would like to make the signs cost
effective. This way a line of print could be added.
Weeks said he would like to see the height of signs A & B
reduced to at least 81 . He had questions on the placement of
sign B.
Wilkus said that they were trying to direct traffic to the
ramp.
Weeks said that signs A & B do not have the same conditions.
Greg Fast from the sign company said it had been designed
at 10' because of the large amount of pedestrian traffic.
They would like the sign copy to be over the heads and also
over snow build up. .
Weeks felt that sign B should be comparable to sign C.
• Clarke noted that it was only 51 .
Weeks said it could possibly be 61 .He asked if sign C was
illuminated.
Clarke said it would not be lit, and the others would work
on a timer with the street lights.
Weeks asked if sign B could go where sign C is - could they
be combined?
Fast said that sign C is for visitor parking. With Week's
idea, the ramp parking idea is defeated.
Clarke said he would like cars off Shady Oak Road and
directed towards the back parking area. Only the regular
attenders know of the back area. The signs will alleviate
the problem because many do not know that ramp parking is
available. Many parking spaces at the church are not
utilized.
Weeks said he would still like to see sign B reduced to 61 .
Harvey said he would like to see signs A & D reduced by 21 .
• This is internal signage not publicly visible. Sign B is
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• visible and the Board has a responsibility to protect off
site land users. B should be reduced.
Clarke said they have used bulletin boards and posted layout
of parking places on various doors in the church in an
effort to reduce the problem. They have gone to adult
classes and informed those attending of the problem.
However, these people are regular attenders and the real
problem is with the visitors. The police came in one day and
complained about the congestion.
Harvey noted that much of the footage is below the
lettering. Could there be another design?
Clarke said they had not considered that, as it did not
blend as well with the architecture. In addition, post signs
are almost as costly and not as permanent. He agreed that
the Board's points were valid, and the signs could probably
be brought down to 8' in height, but not much lower. If
lower, shrub height and snow placement could interfere.
Freemyer asked why the sign needed to be 31 , face to face.
Fast answered that the sign was designed to cover three
directions with one sign.
• Clarke explained sign A again.
Harvey asked about the depth of the white area on top of the
signs. He suggested that the logo could be moved below as an
alternative.
Fast noted that height was important so that people standing
in the area do not block signs. Snow build up is another
factor.
Clarke said it would stand out at night, even at 81 .
Weeks felt that sign B should be reduced even further than
81 . He felt the suggestion of moving the logo down was a
good one. He was concerned about the impact of the signs on
the public roadway. It may even be better if the signs were
lower in order to see from the car.
Clarke said that the decision is made before that time, and
if the sign were low, the cars ahead would block it.
Weeks again suggested a 6' sign with lower placement of the
logo.
Fast asked about raising the berms.
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• Johnson said that the berm could be raised on the inside of
the island.
Rick Ahmann, 6604 Golden Ridge Road, owner of a business
across the street,came forward and said that he had not been
notified, but did add that he was a tenant and not an owner.
He operated a retail business. He said that there were about
10 houses within the 500' distance of notification. The
church already has 1,000' of square feet of signage when you
consider the steeple. This casts a radiant glow around the
area. Now, this request to add additional lights and signage
has come up. . He said he would like his signage increased
also. He had assumed that he was within the notification
area. He would be looking at a 236 + feet addition to the
1,000's of lit square feet already there. He felt it goes
against what people want when they go into that area. He
said that there are lots of good people in that church and
his own children had gone to nursery school there. It is a
good church community with a good attitude. If this were to
be granted, he felt that he should be able to expect the
same variances to be made on his behalf. Notification is an
issue that should be addressed. His biggest concern is the
lighting and the times these signs would be lit. Ahmann felt
the back lots were not used because the corridors in the
building to that direction were dark and people need to walk
around the building. If this is granted to one proponent, it
. should be granted to others.
Harvey answered that code does not define the steeple as
signage. It was the City Council that permitted the steeple.
This Board will deal only with the issues presented this
evening. The notification area is 5001 .
Freemyer said that it is not this Board's job to design the
signs. As the proposal stands now, he would vote against it.
Harvey felt that a reduction in signage to the fullest
extent was possible and the goal could still be
accomplished. He suggested a continuance and redesigned
proposal.
Clarke noted that they were already a month late in getting
to this meeting. If they make concession regarding the
height, would they still need to come back to the next
meeting?
Harvey said that would be necessary. The next meeting would
be the second Thursday in August. He explained the options
available to Clarke.
Clarke asked for a continuance.
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• MOTION: Wilkus moved that the Board continue Variance
Request 92-017 until the August meeting. Weeks
seconded the motion and it passed unanimously.
IV OLD BUSINESS
A. STUDENT PARTICIPATION ON BOARD
Harvey asked about
the status of the student participation on the Board.
Johnson said she would check on that and get an update.
B. INFORMATION ON CONTINUED ITEMS
Wilkus suggested that the Board be supplied with more
information (at the second meeting) on the items that
are continued. Often times this information is not kept
and brought along to the second meeting.
C. BEACH ROAD HOUSE
Harvey noted that there had not been much activity on
this project.
D. OMLIE HOUSE VARIANCE
• Freemyer noted that the Omlie variance decision by the
Board had been overturned at the City Council meeting.
.It was noted that Freemyer was there and his letter was
introduced into the record.
E. ATTENDANCE AT BOARD MEETINGS
Freemyer was concerned regarding attendance. He noted
that it is very important to have a quorum.
Harvey suggested that Johnson call or write Argue (at
the Board's direction) to ask what his intentions are
and about any possible conflicts regarding the
schedule.
Johnson said that she would do that and would also
call Akemann, who is moving to Prior Lake and would no
longer be eligible for membership on the Board.
Freemyer said he would serve another term if necessary
and if it was the desire of the Council.
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F. REVIEW OF GUIDELINES FOR SPECIAL MEETINGS
MOTION: Wilkus moved that the Board continue this
item to the another meeting in order to
discuss it when there are more members
present. Wilkus seconded the motion and it
passed 4-0
V. NEW BUSINESS
A. AGENDA FOR NEXT MONTH
Johnson noted that there are eight items on the agenda
for next month, including three decks and a parking
variance.
B. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Freemyer moved that the Board adjourn. Wilkus
seconded the motion and it passed 4-0.
Meeting adjourned at 9: 35 P.M.
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