HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 11/09/2006 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 9, 2006 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
Atrium 3
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Rick King, Vice-Chair Jeff Larsen,
Commissioners: Joe Harris, Greg McKewan,
Mark Michelson, and Brad Stratton
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Kurt Schendel
VISITORS: Scott Skramstad, MAC
Jim Welsh, Flying Cloud Control Tower
Gordon Huff, Volunteer with MN Business
Aviation Association (MBAA)
Mitch Anderson, Local Pilot
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner
Carol Pelzel, City Recorder
CALL TO ORDER
Chair King called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m.
I. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Larsen, to approve the agenda as published.
Motion carried, 6-0.
II. APPROVAL OF AUGUST 10, 2006 MINUTES
King made several grammatical changes to the minutes.
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Larsen, to approve the August 10, 2006
minutes as corrected. Motion carried 4-0-2, with Harris and McKewan abstaining
because of absence from that meeting.
III. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. Chance in Commission Meeting Schedule
Kipp explained that at their last meeting, the Commission made a motion to request
the City Council to allow the Flying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission to meet on a
more regular basis because of the time lag between meetings and the difficulty to
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become educated on the various issues with so few meetings. The City Council
approved the new meeting schedule. The Commission will now meet on a bimonthly
basis (every other month) with the next meeting scheduled for January 11, 2007.
B. Very Light Jets (VLJ's) Presentation—Dave Clark, MBAA
Via telephone, Dave Clark, Vice President of the Minnesota Business Aviations
Association,presented a PowerPoint presentation on Very Light Jets (VLJ's) and the
Flying Cloud Airport. Clark provided the Commission with a brief background of his
aviation experience and he explained what a VLJ is and why people are purchasing the
VLJ. A VLJ is a small jet aircraft approved for single pilot operation and has a
maximum take-off weight of less than 10,000 lbs. and seating for up to six passengers.
Clark reviewed with the Commission the effects these jets will have on the national
airspace system and indicated that they are very quiet jets. They exceed the Stage 4
requirements and noise is a non-issue. For Flying Cloud Airport, the VLJ's are a good
thing. It incorporates safety, efficiency and noise reduction which has been needed for
a long time. A number of manufacturers are developing and taking orders. It is
estimated that 4,500 VLJ's will be operating in the next 10 years.
Kipp asked Clark if he foresees the VLJ opening up the air taxi industry throughout
the metro airports. Clark responded that in this area,he is not sure. He said that what
drives the air taxi industry are open spaces or extreme congestion and neither of these
exist in the metro area. Clark said he sees most VLJ activity in private or shared
ownership and he does not see air taxi being a big industry in the metro area.
Harris asked if there are any plans for Cirrus, located in Duluth, getting into the VLJ
market. Clark explained that they did just announce less than a month ago that they
were going to build a jet. They have not announced any specifications but he
understands it will be a single-engine jet certified for 25,000 feet or less. Clark said he
definitely sees the VLJ's at Flying Cloud Airport and overall it will be a positive
thing. These jets will allow people to update their flying equipment to quieter more
efficient equipment.
C. Commissioner's "Top 5 List" of Issues to Discuss
King explained that they did receive the top five lists of discussion topics from three
Commissioners. He said he feels this information is important and he has asked Larsen
to coordinate obtaining these items from the other Commissioners. He also asked for a
volunteer from the Commission to assist Larsen in prioritizing these items based on
frequency. He would like the Commission to discuss this list at their next meeting and
to spend time on the list to make sure everyone is comfortable with it. Michelson
volunteered to assist Larsen in establishing and prioritizing this list. Once the new
City Council comes on board they will reaffirm with them that they are on the right
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track. On the educational topic area, in January the Commission will have discussion
focused on the view of the airport from the neighborhood perspective.
D. Update on Comprehensive Plan for the Airport
Kipp reported that the City is updating its Comprehensive Guide Plan. The
Metropolitan Council is requiring that the Plan be updated by 2008. Much of this
information is being put together in draft form. The airport portion will be available
for this Commission's review and comment at the next meeting. Kipp pointed out that
the current Guide Plan has a separate element for the airport. The Metropolitan
Council's Policy Plan has merged its aviation section with its transportation section.
The City's Guide Plan will do the same. The City will be looking at compatible land
issues on the east side of the airport. Some of the sites are guided for housing and they
are looking at changing the land use plan to allow for small office building type uses
that are compatible with the airport environment. They will also be looking at noise
attenuation requirements for new development within one mile of the airport. Kipp
pointed out that there is a map included in the Commission's agenda material that
shows the noise contours. Those contours are based on the expanded airport. Kipp said
that once the first draft of the aviation section is completed,he will get it to this
Commission for their review and will forward the Commission's comments to the
consultant and City staff.
E. Draft Airport Zoning Code
Kipp reported that about a year ago City staff met with MAC for an update on that
status of the airport expansion. At that meeting staff discussed the City's proposal to
create some airport zoning controls. The purpose of the controls would be to address
building aesthetics for future hangar development and hangar redevelopment at the
airport. Kipp explained that the information included in the agenda packet highlights
the thought process of what the Code should do and should not do. At this point, staff
is just putting together information for the Code. The Code does not address the size of
the building or parking requirements. MAC has requirements of their own for these
things. Kipp further explained that the main focus of the Code is to have something in
place that would allow for upgrading of materials and design for hangars and fixed
based operators. In response to a question from Stratton, Kipp explained that ASI did
go through a site plan and review process with the City when they constructed their
new building. MAC also has their own review process while the City looks at the
architecture and compatibility with the surrounding area. Kipp indicated that staff is
fine tuning the language in the Code and this Code will be addressed in the new Guide
Plan update.
Kipp stated that the City does not want to get involved with MAC's Minimum
Standards ordinance issues. The City is concerned with the aesthetics of the buildings
on the field. They are not duplicating what MAC already has. King asked if the City
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has the jurisdiction to put the Code in place. Kipp responded that there are court cases
that show jurisdiction on both sides. This will be looked into further. King said it is
his hope that they can design something that will work with what MAC already has.
Harris explained that each individual City has certain requirements. MAC has nothing
in place to enforce aesthetic issues. Kipp indicated that the Commission did put some
guidelines in place in 1996 and MAC was willing to endorse the process. They need to
determine what they can do to mandate these requirements. When a project goes
through the site plan review, they can look at the architecture of the proposed building.
Harris pointed out that they have not had a lot of new construction occurring at Flying
Cloud Airport. The three most recent hangars built did follow the guide for new
construction.
Michelson asked if they were essentially putting together the guidelines for MAC
enforcement. Kipp said that if MAC wants to enforce aesthetic standards acceptable to
the City that would be great. The City does not want to get in the way of designing the
hangars. McKewan asked if this Code would require a certain look for the outside
appearances. Kipp said it would provide for a mixture of construction materials.
IV. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
A. Land Use Compatibility Guidelines for Aircraft Noise
Kipp reported that Metropolitan Council has put together land use compatibility
guidelines that include a noise footprint of each airport and defines the long-term
comprehensive plan for noise contours based on 2010 and 2015 growth. Basically,
the document is used to define compatible and incompatible land uses near the
airports and talks about construction standards. This document also references buffer
zones. The document is self-explanatory and includes a builder's guide. Kipp said
MAC has acquired much of the land with the safety zones which also covers the noise
zones. The City will work with these guidelines to mitigate noise and the impact to
sites around the airport.
B. Reliever Airports Task Force Update—Joe Harris
Harris explained for about the past three months MAC has been in negotiations with
Northwest Airlines. These negotiations have been put on hold because of the
uncertainty of the Governor's race, which may affect some of the terms of MAC
Board members. Harris reported that the Task Force has been working hard to deal
with existing hangar structures. The construction of new hangars has some solid rules
to follow but they need to improve the look of the existing hangars. They have been
soliciting the help of every one and have been calling the various cities to help them
address these issues. It is easy to identify the hangars that need to be improved but it
is difficult to know how far they should go to get them to update their facilities. Some
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of the hangars will have to be demolished. Harris said it is difficult to determine
where they should begin with this process. The tenants know they are working on this
but are resistant to it. Harris said the hangars at Flying Cloud are some of the worst
hangars in MAC's system and they don't flow with the community. This is one issue
they are moving forward on.
Harris further reported that they expect negotiations with NWA to go to the first of
the year. Once that is completed they will then move forward with other reliever
issues. Harris said the other big thing the Task Force is working on is the updating of
the Airport Long Term Comprehensive Plan. There will be a series of public hearings
held. This document will map out the Airport Plan for the next 20 years. Harris
indicated that they hope to have the update completed by the end of 2007.
McKewan asked if MAC could require people to update their hangars. Harris said
they believe they can. Stratton questioned if the hangars are profitable for most of the
owners. Harris answered that those people who sublease the space and collect
monthly rent are profitable. In response to a question from McKewan, Harris
explained that the hangars at Flying Cloud are not large enough for storage of RV's
and boats.
V. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC
A. FCM Airport User Briefing—Joe Harris
Harris reported that they held their second user briefing of the year. The fall meeting is
held on site and its purpose is to reach the aviation community. It is for the
commercial operators and at that meeting they tell the operators what they want them
to do as commercial operators at the airport. This is a mandatory meeting and if the
operators do not attend this meeting they are not allowed to use the facilities. They
talk about operations, snow removal,policies, etc. and it also gives them an
opportunity to find out how things are going for the operators. The second purpose of
this meeting was to brief the operators on Ordinance 97 and what requirements they
must follow and what MAC expects with run ups. Harris said at the fall meeting they
presented the Flying Cloud Airport Commercial Operator of the year award to ASI Jet
Center. They have demonstrated their high regard and adherence to Ordinance 97.
Harris explained that they have made a significant improvement to the airport with
their facility.
Stratton questioned if run-ups during the evening are an issue at Flying Cloud. Harris
answered that lately they are not an issue. Most operators shut down at 10 p.m. For the
last two years, maintenance run-ups are non-existent.
Larsen pointed out that the previous Commission was not good about having
conversations with the people involved in Flying Cloud Airport. Prior to this meeting,
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Larsen said the Commission had not met with people who were hobbyist. He said he
found visiting the technical school to be both very interesting and informative. Larsen
stated that he had no idea of the quality of the institution that exists in the City. He
suggested that Commission members visit the school. Larsen asked if the City
acknowledges the winner of the Flying Cloud Airport Commercial Operator of the
year award. Kipp responded that they have not but the City Council has an annual
workshop on Flying Cloud operations and this may be an opportune time to
acknowledge the award and to acknowledge ASI Jet Center's support for the noise
abatement program. Larsen said he feels this award benefits the community by having
operators who are trying to comply with the noise abatement program. The City
should recognize these people. King asked if there is anything the City can do at this
time in terms of recognizing ASL Kipp answered that he does not know when the joint
workshop will be held but they could put this item on the agenda. Kipp said they could
also put something on the City's website.
B. Noise Complaints/Stage 2 Operations Reports (August-October) —Joe Harris
Skramstad presented the noise complaint report for the months of August, September
and October. There were a total of 52 complaints from 18 different people. Forty-
three of those complaints were received in the month of October. Stratton asked why
there was such a high number received in October. Skramstad responded that with
noise complaints, there is no methodology or reason as to why they are higher in a
particular month. This is also the case with all other reliever airports. Most of the
complaints received were for early morning and late night operations. Skramstad said
that after investigating the complaints, 12 letters were mailed to operators they could
identify. The operators were informed that there is a valid noise abatement agreement
in place. Six complaints involved MSP operations where planes fly over Flying
Cloud but do not stop. Skramstad reported that five of the flights that took off
between 6 a.m. and 7 a.m. complied with the requirements and did not receive a
letter.
Kipp asked if MAC notifies the complainant that the operator was in compliance.
Skramstad said they do not. If they request a callback, they do call them back.
McKewan said he believes MAC should notify the complainant to let them know that
the operator was in compliance. He suggested that MAC ask for a return e-mail
address. Skramstad said they do have some legal concerns about contacting the
complainant. The information they may send that person may be private data.
Michelson said the least they could do is acknowledge that they received their
complaint. Skramstad said MAC is more than willing to accommodate the community
and he will look into notifying the complainants and report back to the Commission.
King said the Commission's main concern is that people have legitimate complaints
and they need to let them know that they are heard and the complaints are looked
into. Skramstad explained that every single complaint that comes through the intemet
and telephone comes directly to him and then he starts the investigation process. He
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pointed out that 75 percent to 80 percent of the people complaining are the same
people who complain every month.
VI. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
Harris asked if it would be helpful to this group for him to bring in a quarterly airport
operation tower count comparison from year to year. King said it would be helpful and they
could piggyback that on complaints.
VII. OTHER BUSINESS (Various FYI Items)
• Airport Information Packet
• Airport Business Visit—Minneapolis Community Technical College
• MSP Minimum Landing Fee
• MAC Capital Improvement Program
Stratton pointed out that the Capital Improvement Program outlined some deadlines
with the runway extension piece being listed for 2009. He asked if this is correct.
Harris said their plan is to do this in 2009. There are other projects to be completed in
preparation for this project. They hope to take advantage of some funding that is
available for this project. King pointed out that the Capital Improvement Program is
on MAC's website and this project is included in that Program and is moving forward
for Commission approval. Harris said he does not see much change to the Program in
2007. The projects will depend on funding resources.
Stratton said he is concerned with the economic development aspect of Flying Cloud
Airport. He asked what the difference is between Anoka and Flying Cloud operations.
Harris explained that the towers are open the same hours. Flying Cloud does have
more flights than Anoka.
• MAC Noise Abatement Plan
• MAC Noise Abatement Briefing Power Point
• Various Aviation Articles
• Various Newspaper Articles
• Next meeting—January 11, 2007
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
Larsen said that as part of a communication process, the Commission should some how get
themselves known to the new City Council members. This Commission was referred to
twice at the candidate forum and it appeared that most of the candidates did not know the
function of this Commission. Kipp said this would be another reason to have a Council
workshop with this Commission.
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MOTION: Larsen moved, seconded by Michaelson, to adjourn the meeting. Motion
carried, 6-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.