HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 08/10/2006 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY,AUGUST 10, 2006 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
Prairie Room A & B
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Rick King, Vice-Chair Jeff Larsen,
Mark Michelson and Brad Stratton
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Joe Harris, Greg McKewan and Kurt
Schendel
MAC REPRESENTATIVES: Chad Leqve and Gary Schmidt
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner
Carol Pelzel, City Recorder
CALL TO ORDER
Chair King called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
I. SWEARING IN OF NEW MEMBERS
A. Brad Stratton
Kipp administered the oath of office to Commissioner Brad Stratton.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Larsen moved, seconded by Michelson, to approve the agenda as published.
Motion carried, 4-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MAY 11, 2006 MINUTES
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Larsen, to approve the May 11, 2006 minutes
as published. Motion carried 3-0-1, with Stratton abstaining because of absence from
that meeting.
IV. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. Meetings with FCM Businesses
King reported that he and Kipp had met with major businesses based at the Flying
Cloud Airport. Information regarding these meetings was included with the
Commissioner's agenda material. He explained that material handed out this evening
includes two additional reports and letters regarding these meetings. At these
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meetings, the owners discussed how their businesses were doing and what they are
doing in terms of expansion. They also discussed issues that these businesses are
dealing with. King said one thing they found is that there are approximately 300
people employed around the airport. These businesses are relatively thin margin
businesses generating small amounts of profit. This is something they need to consider
when thinking about City fees and also MAC fees because additional fees will make a
big difference for these businesses. It seemed that all of the businesses are supportive
of the runway expansion and they view it as bringing in more business for them. King
said it also appeared that some of the businesses are in a retrench mode and are
holding their own.
King reported that he and Kipp also met with MAC representatives as an introductory
session with no particular agenda. They did discuss this Commission's role and
direction and hope to keep communications open between the two groups. Kipp said
he felt that all of the organizations seemed to appreciate the visits and they appreciated
that this Commission is willing to listen to them.
Stratton said he did note that everyone seems to be interested in the runway expansion
and in the addition of water and sewer. He asked if there were any other comments
about economic development associated with investing monies in the airport or other
things government could help facilitate. There is so much vacant land that could be
used for significant economic development and he questioned if this was discussed.
King responded that sewer and water does appear to be a big concern because of the
new code requiring them to deal with that and the connection fees associated with
those improvements. The expanded runway appeared to be more of a concern while
sewer and water seems to be more of a critical issue. Connection fees are also a big
concern. King said that this Commission may want to take an advisory position on the
sewer and water issue. Kipp pointed out that when Pioneer Trail is upgraded by the
County sewer and water will be included. The County is working with the City and
MAC as to the alignment of Pioneer Trail improvements. King noted that the business
owners were worried that City codes that apply to sprinklers drives water and fire
protection could make businesses who want to refurbish think twice about any
improvements.
King reported that in the discussion with MAC, MAC expressed uncertainty as to
where the funding would come from for the runway expansion. With today's
economic times, the funding for these improvements is not available. There are also
new FAA rules relative to buffers and landing requirements that will modify operation
procedures.
Stratton mentioned that there had been some discussion regarding very light jets
(VLJ's) and he explained that he is involved with a project called Eclipse Aviation and
he has done some research on this issue. Stratton said he feels that eventually there
will be only one airport that will be a hub for the VLJ market and it would be
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economically desirable to have Flying Cloud as the hub. Business people are talking
about owner/operator things such as a taxing service which will drive the VLJ market.
For Flying Cloud Airport to become a part of this would be an important piece.
Transport business is not desirable and is very noisy.
Schmidt pointed out that the runway expansion is a $10 million project. With
Northwest Airlines in bankruptcy and what is currently taking place, airport spending
is being impacted. VLJ's need about 2,500 feet of runway space and Flying Cloud
Airport would work very well for them. The taxi market is a big market and VLJ's will
become the taxi service where corporate is out of reach. This is a growing market
while the other growing market is the traditional corporate aircraft. As corporations
continue to consolidate, the corporate market will continue to grow. Stratton said the
corporate market is what keeps Flying Cloud Airport alive today. Most of the bigger
corporate jets use the St. Paul airport because Flying Cloud's runways are not long
enough. Schmidt explained that the new FAA rule adds an additional 15 percent
requirement to the calculated landing distance and makes the runway expansion
needed even more. This requires funds that are not currently available. They need to
develop a system that meets the needs of the airport.
Kipp asked that MAC officials keep this Commission informed as they are looking at
the new rules and how those rules will be implemented. Schmidt pointed out that for
MAC the main driving factor will be money.
Due to time constraints for Mr. Leqve, Kipp suggested the agenda move to the
Educational and Noise Abatement sections to be covered by Mr. Leqve. The
commission agreed.
V. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS —Presentation by MAC Staff
A. Operational Implementation Plan
B. Noise Abatement Plan
Kipp explained that as part of this educational item, they asked MAC to discuss the
operational implementation plan and noise abatement plan.
Leqve presented an overview of the Operational Implementation Plan, MAC
Ordinance 97, the Voluntary FCM Noise Abatement Plan, and Flying Cloud Operator
of the year award. He explained that MAC Ordinance 97 was previously discussed
and centered around the concept that they would move forward with the 5,000 foot
runway at Flying Cloud and he reviewed some of the other elements that could be
addressed in the ordinance. They looked at runway operations and weight bearing
restrictions and ended up restricting run ups from 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. and limited
aircraft to those weighing less than 60,000 pounds. Leqve also reviewed with the
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Commission the major elements of the FCM Operations Implementation Plan
explaining that the major element MAC agreed to was to limit weight bearing
capacity of the runway. They developed a letter of intent, laying out night time
restrictions, Voluntary Stage II restrictions and departure and arrival procedures. He
explained that the voluntary night time operations restrictions asked the operators to
avoid any operations from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. Kipp pointed out that there have been
flights between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. and complaints had been received. When looking
into this it was determined that many of the operations were Life Link flights which
transport human organs for transplant and it is imperative that these flights take place
during those specific times.
Leqve reported that MAC also presents an annual award to an FCM operator that has
shown a high level of compliance with the noise abatement procedures. Larsen
suggested that this award be included in the City's local newspaper. It was also
suggested that it be presented to the operator in front of the City Council.
VI. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
A. Noise Complaints/Stage 2 Operations Reports
Leqve distributed to the Commission a noise complaint map and noise complaint
summary. He explained that they do have a process in place that lays out how noise
complaints are handled. A total of 30 complaints were received from 15 people from
May through July with 17 of those 30 complaints filed through the internet. Leqve
pointed out that 20 of the complaints filed were for night-time operations. They
investigate each of those complaints and when an operator is identified, a letter is sent
to that operator regarding the violation. Of the 20 complaints filed, they were able to
identify 11 operators. Michelson questioned how they could only identify
approximately 50 percent of the operators. Leqve said that when an aircraft takes off,
a unique IFR squak code is needed to identify the specific airplane. If the airplane is
under VFR rules, the squak code is not unique and does not provide individual
aircraft identification. They try to do the best job they can with the equipment they
have. Schmidt pointed out that they are looking at a number of complaints and many
of them are flights that originated at the MSP Airport. Michelson said he is still
surprised they can only identify 50 percent of the flights and thought they would be
able to identify everyone that is in the air. Leqve pointed out that the FAA is in
charge of air space and MAC has no jurisdiction over air space. To obtain this data
from the FAA is not an easy task. Schmidt explained that they can track sophisticated
aircraft but they cannot always track a recreational aircraft that comes out of a private
hangar.
King asked that Leqve forward his PowerPoint presentation to Kipp and that Kipp
forward it to the Commission.
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Mr. Leqve had to leave the meeting after his presentation. The agenda returned to IV.
Discussion Items.
IV. DISCUSSION ITEMS
B. Airport Information Packet
Kipp explained that he occasionally receives requests from people who are planning to
purchase property in the City as to the status of Flying Cloud Airport. He provided the
Commission with the information he gives to those people and explained how this
information was developed. Kipp said he took MAC's EIS document for the airport
expansion and pulled out various graphics that show what the airport expansion would
look like. This information includes locations of the runway extensions, noise contours
and the type of noise generated based on a 24-hour average, as well as forecasted
average monthly flight track data. Kipp said he also recommends that the individual
spend some time in the area they are looking at to purchase and observe and listen.
This information is provided on a call and need basis. He asked the Commission if
they want to improve on this report. Michelson said he thought they had more recent
contours. Kipp explained that there were some other contours that were based on
alternatives given, however, Alternative F is the alternative going forward. King said
he would like this information to be as usable as possible for people requesting it.
Michelson asked if the reader is required to pass this information on. Kipp responded
that a law recently passed requires that noise and annoying sources be disclosed.
Schmidt suggested that this information be placed on the City's website. Kipp said last
year they had between 50 and 100 people requested this information. Stratton said he
feels it is helpful to provide noise compliant data to those people who request it. He
suggested that they include the map showing where the complaints are coming from.
King asked if the Commission wanted to develop some type of documentation to be
provided to potential Eden Prairie residents. Michelson said he feels they need to be
sensitive about this information. If a person is trying to sell their home where
complaints are occurring, they may not want this information made available to
potential buyers. Michelson indicated that people feel that airports and airport
expansions diminish the value of their homes. Kipp explained that the information
provided is on demand. When Staff receives calls, they indicate any proposed changes
such as roadways, airports, new development not yet constructed, etc.
Stratton said he would like to see this information simplified so that the average
homeowner, both buyer and seller, can understand it. King indicated that he would like
something on the website indicating what this Commission does. He also pointed out
that the information provided this evening is already on MAC's website. King
suggested that this Commission request staff to look at this information and to refresh
the information and consider how they should approach it when a request comes in.
Stratton said he feels the contour maps are difficult for the average person to
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understand. He suggested they add text to the top of the map indicating what the
policies are and that there is also a voluntary restriction in place. Larsen stated that he
would be in favor of having as much information available as possible but the
information has to be factual. The information could be looked at in an inflammatory
manner and a vast number of the people will not understand the contour maps. He
suggested that they have staff look at this information to see what is available and
determine what revisions are necessary. Larsen said they may want to consider doing
something in more of a generic fashion and they may want to funnel calls and e-mails
that people find interesting for a better understanding versus a presentation on the
website. Michelson said he thinks the City needs to present a straight black and white
presentation that gives the facts as they know them. There are business people who
want to make money and people who want to sell their homes and they have to be
sensitive to all of these people.
Michelson said he would be in favor of making the information being provided to
these people cleaner or updating it and directing them to MAC's website for additional
information. He does not feel they should go beyond that.
King directed City staff to refresh this information and to bring it back to the
Commission's next meeting for further review.
C. Reliever Airports Task Force Update
Kipp reported that included in the Commission's agenda material was background
material on the Metropolitan Airports Commission Reliever Airport Task Force. He
explained that one of MAC's main issues is funding. They have started looking at their
entire system to prioritize what they need to do.
Schmidt presented a brief presentation on how they are dealing with the funding
shortages and what they are planning to do. The report explains the process and
includes recommendations from the Task Force and where they are at in implementing
some of those plans. Schmidt reported that the Commission has decided not to close
any airports but to try and generate more revenue and that they will not contract any
management but will keep internal management to run their facilities. They are also
considering recommendations to implement new rates. Schmidt said they are currently
focusing on the Blaine airport and are hoping to generate enough revenue so that
reliever airports can become as close to self-sufficient as possible.
Stratton asked Schmidt to address the Flying Cloud expansion and runway. Schmidt
explained that the hangar area on the south side could be developed. They have not
gotten into any detailed plans. Right now they are focusing on getting the runway done
and then will look at the building area. Any change in uses at the airports requires
completion of a long-term comprehensive plan that has to be submitted to the FAA.
They are currently working on three airports; Crystal, Air Lake and Lake Elmo. They
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plan to do an update at Flying Cloud, Anoka and St. Paul in 2007 with Flying Cloud
probably being the first of those three. They need to find funding for the runway
expansion at Flying Cloud and there is not a lot of property left to be developed at
Flying Cloud. Schmidt further explained that the community garden site is probably
the site they could use to generate revenue. The long-term comprehensive plan looks
at airport needs for the next 20 years and also looks at all of the airports different
parcels that will not be used for aviation purposes that can be developed to generate
revenue.
D. City's Comprehensive Plan Update for the Airport
Kipp reported that the City is in its early stages of updating its Comprehensive Plan as
required by the Met Council. The update has to be completed by June, 2008. This Plan
covers land use, housing, transportation, etc. They still need to decide if the airport
element is on its own or if it will be included in the transportation system portion of
the Plan. Currently, the airport element is included in the Comprehensive Plan. Kipp
explained that they will be updating the Plan based on current land use around the
airport and the approved contours will be updated.
Larsen asked if the Commission would be notified as to when the Plan will be before
the Planning Commission. Kipp responded that the Planning Commission has
dedicated the second meeting of each month to review the guide plan update. Whether
or not they will have a meeting dedicated to the airport he is not sure since it may be
included under transportation.
Michelson asked if there is anything the City can do with regards to zoning since the
airport property is under the jurisdiction of MAC. Kipp explained that the City has
prepared a draft zoning code for the airport to address building aesthetics. This has
been given to MAC for comment. Also, part of the Reliever Airports Task Force
recommendations is to improve building design and maintenance requirements. The
City can look at what they are doing and work with them. Michelson asked if this
Commission would be allowed to give some input. Kipp indicated that the design
framework is included in the Commissioner's blue book and is more of a guidance to
implement the standards used there. King asked what this Commission's role would be
in the update of the Comprehensive Plan. Kipp said the Commission should look at the
document and provide feedback to staff. King suggested the Commission review the
document and provide feedback.
VII. OTHER BUSINESS
King asked if the Commissioners had any specific items they would like to bring
forward under educational items. Kipp said he would bring forward the draft code so
that they can look at that and see what the City is envisioning for upgrades.
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King stated that they have heard from MAC about noise issues but he would like to
hear from other organizations that have noise issues with the airport. The Commission
needs to hear all of the issues from everyone affected by the airport.
Stratton pointed out that he is a member of a flying club that represents a different
phase of the airport. This would include private individuals that own planes and he
would be happy to invite members from that club's board to give a perspective from
recreational pilots. This group is not a significant revenue generator for the airport but
it would give a different viewpoint. King said he thought that would be a good idea
and that they need to keep a list of potential items for review and have those items
added to the agenda as appropriate. He also suggested that they review the draft code.
Kipp said they may also have more information on the guide plan for further review.
Kipp pointed out that other items included in the Commissioner's agenda material
included MAC's Land Use Compatibility Guidelines for Airport and Heliport Noise
and a Builder's Guide- Mitigating Aircraft Noise in New Residential Construction.
King explained that the educational items for this Commission could be limitless.
With this Commission only meeting four times a year,by the time the Commissioners
are educated, their term is completed. King asked the Commission members if they
feel the meeting frequency is appropriate. The information they consider is highly
technical and there is lots of background material that takes considerable time to
review. Michelson said he could see where it would be appropriate to meet more often
and suggested they meet every other month. Kipp pointed out that the City Council
would have to approve this Commission meeting more often and a request for more
meetings could be presented to the City Manager for discussion. Larsen said he feels
that initially it would be good to meet more often to get them up to speed since they
are basically a new group and meeting more often at the beginning makes more sense.
Stratton said he agrees that they may want to meet bi-monthly. Michelson said they
need to accomplish things and not just meet to meet. Stratton said it would be very
helpful for him if they could have a list of the top ten things this Commission would
like to accomplish. King said if they do go with meeting every other month, they
would have time to develop this list. He indicated that he would be in favor of
recommending bi-monthly meetings of this Commission to the City Council. Right
now they should plan to meet on November 9 and they can schedule meetings out
from that date.
Motion: Michelson moved, seconded by Stratton, to recommend that the City Council
change the frequency of meetings for the Flying Cloud Airports Commission from
quarterly meetings to bi-monthly meetings. The motion carried, 4-0.
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Stratton, to adjourn the meeting. Motion
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carried, 4-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:25 p.m.