HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 05/10/2007 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY, MAY 10, 2007 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
Prairie Room A & B
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Rick King, Vice-Chair Jeff Larsen,
Commissioners: Joe Harris, Greg McKewan,
Mark Michelson, Kurt Schendel and Brad
Stratton
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: None
VISITORS: Scott Skramstad, MAC
Warren McVey, FAA Representative
Chad Leqve, MAC Representative
Jeffrey Hamiel, Executive Director, MAC
Rod Reynolds, 11608 Tanglewood Drive
Lee Moran, 11628 Tanglewood Drive
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner
Carol Pelzel, City Recorder
I. CALL TO ORDER
Chair King called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Larsen moved, seconded by Michelson, to approve the agenda as published.
Motion carried, 7-0.
III. PUBLIC COMMENT
Rod Reynolds, 11608 Tanglewood Drive, stated that he lives on the east side of the airport
and is concerned that if the runways at Flying Cloud are extended they will attract more
jets. With the runway expansion, airport take offs and landings will double and the only
ones he sees using the extended runways are the jet airplanes. He pointed out that Flying
Cloud is a 24-hour airport and most jet airplanes are owned by businessmen and he is
concerned that those users will be taking off during the early morning hours.
King pointed out that there has been no decision to expand Flying Cloud Airport that hasn't
already been made. The expansion is under the authority of the Metropolitan Airports
Commission (MAC). King explained that this Commission has not advocated the
expansion of the airport and they are only adhering to City policy. This Commission has
discussed the concerns expressed by Reynolds and his points are well taken and noted.
Reynolds said that the local newspaper indicates that the City is pushing for the expansion.
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King responded that the City Manager has said that the word expansion used in the article
was not germane to what he was talking about. The City Manager has sent letters to
representatives in Washington stating that the City will not seek Federal funds for the
expansion of the runways and hangers at Flying Cloud. The City would like to see sewer,
water and security installed at the airport. Reynolds said now he hears all of the jets and
with the runway expansion, the only thing that will increase will be jet usage. King pointed
out that the noise profile on turbo props is actually louder than the new jets. Reynolds said
that they are talking about bigger jets and some make more noise than others. Bigger
engines mean more noise. King stated that even with the runway extensions, there will not
be that many more jets because some are unable to land on a runway that is only 5,000 feet.
King said they are not suggesting that the expansion should be done but they do look at the
proposal to understand it. If there is noise during the restriction time, those flights can be
reported and they will be addressed.
In response to a question from Reynolds regarding the timeline for the expansion, Chad
Leqve, MAC Representative, explained that this is a question that dates back to the 1990's
when they started the process of the expansion. Whenever they talk about an expansion
there is always concern about additional jets and increased noise. They do evaluate and
analyze their noise levels. What they discovered in looking at the information is that jet
aircraft and in some cases even bigger aircraft, does not necessarily mean more noise. New
technology has resulted in quieter aircraft. Leqve said there is a lot of research and
evaluation that goes into the environmental impact review of this expansion. He stated that
the major reason for the expansion is to better serve the existing aircraft at the airport. By
adding the runway length they do a better job of accommodating the aircraft that uses the
airport now. They are not anticipating a huge increase of usage with the expansion.
Michelson indicated that the expansion would mean that more aircraft traffic would start
further away from Reynolds' house and this would result in quieter aircraft because they
would be higher when they get over his property. Michelson said he believes the expansion
would be to Reynolds' advantage.
King indicated that Reynolds comments will be made part of the official record.
IV. APPROVAL OF MARCH 8, 2007 MINUTES
Larsen asked that the third paragraph on Page 4 of the minutes be clarified. There were two
presentations at the meeting with the Council; a two-page synopsis of the Commission's
Top 5 list of issues to discuss that Michelson and Larsen had put together and the original
document that they developed the synopsis from which included detailed information.
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Larsen, to approve the March 8, 2007 minutes
as corrected. Motion carried 4-0-3, with Harris, Schendel and Stratton abstaining
because of absence from that meeting.
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V. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. Eden Prairie Comprehensive Guide Plan Update on Aviation—Scott Kipp
Kipp presented an overview of the Comprehensive Guide Plan Update explaining that
the Metropolitan Council requires that airport communities prepare an airport/aviation
section to be included within the Comprehensive Plan. The specific requirements for
communities have been incorporated into the current Plan and will continue to be
included in the update. Kipp explained that they merged the Aviation Chapter into the
Transportation Element consistent with Met Council's Plan. A change in the land use
for the airport from Public/Quasi Public to a new land use called Airport is also in the
Plan. This would clearly identify the accurate use of the land. Staff is also looking at
land use as it relates to aircraft noise. There are 11 acres east of the airport that are
guided low density residential. This area falls under the 60 DNL noise zone which is
inconsistent for housing. Kipp said a different land use for the property is suggested
such as office and industrial which is compatible with the airport operations and
aircraft noise. The land use change would most likely take place as part of any land
development. Kipp said the Plan also discusses the re-establishment of the Flying
Cloud Airport Advisory Commission. Staff will also look at applying additional noise
attenuation requirements for residential uses around the airport. A one-mile noise
attenuation requirement around the airport for new residential construction will be
addressed. Any new housing developments in that area will need to abide by the land
use compatibility guidelines for noise.
Kipp reported that MAC and the City have discussed ways to address the upgrading of
the old hangers at the airport. The City is considering a zoning district to address
construction standards for new construction so that certain elements of design are met.
Staff will continue to work with MAC to see whether this should be a joint effort or an
individual effort.
King asked that any comments regarding the Comprehensive Guide Plan be provided
to Kipp by May 25. Kipp will then forward those comments to the Planning
Commission at the time they consider the Guide Plan update.
B. Airport Security—Rick King
King reported that the Commission would be given an update on airport security at a
special meeting of this Commission on May 31. The purpose of this meeting is to
understand where we are today and to discuss how the Commission wants to report
back to the City Council regarding airport security. At that meeting we will also
discuss whether or not they have to do anything further.
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King said another item to be discussed at the May 31 meeting will be the MSP runway
construction project and flight track changes. The purpose of this item is to provide the
Commission with information regarding this project before they actually do the
runway closure.
VI. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
A. Jeff Hamiel, Executive Director, Metropolitan Airports Commission
King introduced Jeff Hamiel, Executive Director of the Metropolitan Airports
Commission (MAC), and on behalf of the Commission, expressed his appreciation to
Hamiel for the cooperation MAC has provided this Commission.
Hamiel said it is important that MAC makes itself available to the community. He said
he is extremely pleased that this Commission has been created and supported by the
City Council. This is a great opportunity to exchange information and to share
viewpoints. Hamiel complimented City staff and the City Council for working on
noise mitigation and the creation of compatible land uses for areas surrounding the
airport. It is an important message to send out to everyone and the City of Eden Prairie
has done more at the end of the runways than any other community.
Hamiel introduced himself presenting a brief overview of his experience and
background. He explained that Flying Cloud Airport has been a part of this community
for a very long time and it is an important part of the MAC system. The airport system
that exists in the seven-county metro area is under legislative authority created in
1943. MAC has spent over$340 million in noise mitigation and they do care about
the noise around Flying Cloud Airport and other airports. Hamiel explained the
makeup of the Airports Commission and presented an overview of the organizational
structure of MAC.
Hamiel explained that the key initiatives of MAC primarily surround the MSP Airport.
That airport is the tenth largest airport in the United States and they have 475,000
takeoffs and landings in a year with 35 million passengers. They are predicting that
there will be 50 to 55 million passengers per year in the early 2020's and 650,000 to
680,000 operations in a year at that time. Even with that growth increase and jet
activity, noise will continue to decline. Hamiel said he believes that Flying Cloud will
also grow but not at the levels it has historically achieved.
Hamiel stated that MAC has been in negotiations with Northwest Airlines (NWA) and
all other carriers with regards to a cost reduction program to encourage better
competition. Part of MAC's goal is to make sure that NWA stays in Minneapolis and
St. Paul and that they keep their headquarters here. They want to reduce the overall
cost structure to encourage NWA to not default on their obligations. Hamiel indicated
that they have gone through some challenging negotiations over the last few months.
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Their goal is to provide MAC with a stronger financial future and stable economic
environment.
Hamiel discussed growth at Flying Cloud Airport with the Commission. He said he
does not believe they will see a lot of growth of single-engine planes being used by
recreational pilots. This is becoming cost prohibitive and they see a decline in
recreational flying but an increase in corporate customers. The real growth will be in
the turbo props and turbo jet market. He projects that they will see more and more jet
powered airplanes. Hamiel said people might question why they are improving Flying
Cloud when the numbers are declining. He said in reality, they are seeing a change in
why people use airplanes. For economic reasons, business use of airplanes will
increase. Newer airplanes are much more sophisticated, safer and reliable. They are
flown by more professional and skilled pilots and are a lot quieter than current
airplanes. Hamiel said another important development at Flying Cloud is the
introduction of the very light jets (VLJ's). They are the smallest of the jets and are
affordable, very light and do not require a thrust of power to get airborne. Hamiel
pointed out that airport traffic is changing and moving from recreational pilot use to
public use.
Stratton pointed out that VLJ's are owner operated. He asked if there have been any
studies or research as to the economic impact of these owners on the surrounding
community. He questioned if these owners bring any kind of economic development to
the area. Hamiel responded that he is not aware of any legitimate studies relating to
this issue. However, it would only seem logical that there would be an economic
impact when these companies use a specific airport. Stratton asked if there have been
any requests for building bigger hangers at Flying Cloud to accommodate these VLJ's.
Hamiel explained that part of their improvement plan for Flying Cloud Airport is to
lengthen both of the runways. In addition to the runway extension, there will be the
addition of storage hangers on the southwest corner of the airport. They expect to have
a significant and substantial commercial operator be part of that development. Hamiel
said they do anticipate construction of hangers and they may see some corporate
investment with the new hangers being built.
Hamiel said they do not anticipate a tremendous growth of jets at Flying Cloud
Airport. The airplanes that take off at Flying Cloud now are more lightly loaded and
fly to MSP to fill up with fuel. That is not efficient and they should be able to leave
Flying Cloud with a full load. The extended runway will allow this to occur. From a
pilot's standpoint, the 5,000 foot long runway also provides them with a safety margin.
Hamiel explained that by the end of this year or the early part of next year, the FAA
will have completed their EIS work and by 2008 they will have a green light to
proceed with development of Flying Cloud Airport if MAC chooses to do so. Hamiel
said it is highly likely that in the summer of 2008 the north parallel runway at Flying
Cloud Airport will be expanded to 3,900 feet and sewer and water will be added. In
2009 and 2010 they propose switching over to the south parallel runway and extending
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
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it from 3,900 feet to 5,000 feet. By 2011 they believe Flying Cloud Airport will be
fully developed as planned and will be improved to meet the needs of the community.
Hamiel pointed out that Eden Prairie has spent a lot of time and money to develop its
residential community and it is one of the most impressive communities in the
metropolitan area. Hamiel said MAC would continue to work to make improvements
to Flying Cloud to make it a good neighbor.
Larsen asked what type of new tenants would be attracted to this airport should the
hangers be developed as they envision. Hamiel said he does not have a list of tenants
who want to come to the airport. He has had conversations with CEO's at a half dozen
corporations who are interested in locating their airplanes at Flying Cloud but they
have not received any commitments or deposits to secure space. Hamiel said he does
believe there will be three or four corporations that will invest in the new building area
and development of the airport. Larsen asked if the proposed new hangers would be
part of a business development park or if they would be separate from that. Hamiel
said he has only heard discussions about investments on airport property. Corporations
who locate their airplane at the airport want their headquarters near the airport.
McKewan asked what the timeframe would be to replace some of the rusted hangers
located at Flying Cloud Airport. Hamiel answered that MAC has no timetable for
removing hangers. At a very minimum, Hamiel said he thinks MAC should work on
the appearance of the hangers located on the road side. They should encourage the
owners of those hangers to replace or reside them so they are not such an eyesore.
Kipp questioned how they would implement this and what would be the most effective
way for improving those hangers. He questioned if this is something MAC should do
on their own or if it is something this Commission and MAC would work on together
to come up with a plan. Hamiel responded that MAC's Board has identified the
appearance of the airports as an issue. They want to do something and Hamiel said he
sees the Board putting some kind of timetable in place. He feels it would be better for
MAC to approach the owners rather than adopt an ordinance or regulation. Stratton
asked if they could use the addition of sewer and water as some type of incentive.
Hamiel said he sees this as an important amenity and it will serve as a catalyst and
help with redevelopment. They will have discussions with these people and he knows
that they are proud of where they store their airplanes.
VII. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC
A. Noise Complaints/Stage 2 Operations Report (Mar-Apr)
Skramstad distributed the noise complaint map for March and April showing where
each person who complained is located in relation to the airport. He also presented the
noise complaint summary. This summary shows how many times an individual
complained, the date and time and the nature of the call. Skramstad explained that
there were a total of 135 complaints for March and April compared to 90 for January
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and February. The 135 complaints came from 26 people and 104 of those complaints
were verified. Letters outlining the provisions that were violated were sent to 29
owners/operators. There were a number of operations that did not receive letters
because most were not FCM flights. Those flights could have come from MSP or St.
Paul. Another reason for not sending a letter is because a majority of the aircraft in the
early morning hours were conducting noise abatement procedures. Skramstad reported
that there were a number of unidentified aircraft and two Life Source and one Life
Line flights. During the March/April time period there were no Stage II aircraft
operations.
VIII. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
A. Report on Life Link III/Air Methods New Operating Procedures
Skramstad reported that one of the big issues discussed at the last meeting was
helicopter complaints. Half of the complaints received in January were attributed to
helicopter operations. Staff met with the Life Link Operator and developed some
procedures that they implemented on March 25. The procedures got them more in line
with noise abatement procedures which involved flying over the river. They agreed to
the new procedures and they now gain an additional 500 feet of altitude before going
over residential areas. Harris said they met with Air Methods and Warren McFey from
the Flying Cloud tower to find out how things were going and he indicated that the air
traffic controllers love the new procedures and the pilots appeared to have no
problems with the procedures. Life Link indicated that they would work with the
tower and MAC will also work with them.
King said the action taken regarding the helicopter noise was a great effort and
responsiveness by a whole lot of groups and resulted in quick action. He expressed his
appreciation to Warren McFey for his work in resolving this issue. McFey said the
airport is home to a helicopter company that wants to cooperate and be a good
neighbor.
Skramstad briefly reviewed with the Commission the results after the new procedures
were implemented. Prior to the procedures being implemented, they received 14
helicopter complaints from three different residents. After the procedures were
implemented, they received ten complaints from eight different residents. Skramstad
said they analyzed each complaint after the procedures went into effect and found that
three of the complaints correlated with the Life Link helicopter. Two were doing noise
abatement and one operator took the direct route out of the airport. The other
complaints were for other helicopters doing training operations and noise abatement
procedures. Skramstad said it appears that the new procedure has a positive effect and
they will continue to monitor this and bring that data back to this Commission.
King said this information is very helpful and feels it would be valuable to continue
monitoring this at least through the next training cycle.
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IX. NEW BUSINESS
A. MAC Letters on Violations of Voluntary Nis!httime/Early Morning Operations
Restrictions
Michelson said in reviewing the 2002 Final Agreement and copies of letters from
MAC, there appears to be a massive increase of complaints. Michelson said he was
trying to think of a way to address these complaints more forcefully. He said he did
not know if there were repeat offenders in the mix and indicated that he would like to
know if there are and what is being done if anything about that. Michelson asked if
repeating offenders is a problem. King said he agrees that this is something they
should have MAC address. He realizes there is some concern about confidentiality in
releasing some of this information between governmental agencies.
Harris said they would have to talk to MAC's legal staff to see if this information is
public. To a certain degree, they should be able to produce a generic report outlining
repeat offenders since the original agreement was signed. Harris said he also feels it
may be beneficial to share with this Commission some of the responses received as to
why the operation was conducted during a certain time period. Again, this would be a
generic report. This information would help the Commission gain a better
understanding of the operations taking place.
King said their request would be, to the extent possible, to have all of the data that
would be permitted. If there is sensitive data that the Commission could review, they
will then have to agree on how they will handle this information and they should
clearly understand all of the impacts of that information. Leqve said he could not see
where summary information would be a problem. There are specific guidelines or
legal principals that they have to abide by. They will ask their legal staff about
providing the Commission with summary information that does not include names and
addresses. Michelson said he did not see a necessity for going back to old data but
would like this information moving forward to find out if there is a problem with
repeat offenders. Leqve asked what the Commission would do should there be repeat
offenders. He stated that some of the people do not take lightly the letters they receive
regarding a noise violation and they do get vocal. If there is one that has a number of
violations they could send someone from MAC to talk to them. If that person is not
breaking a law they have a right to operate in and out of that airport.
McKewan suggested that MAC purchase portable noise monitors and when they
receive complaints from a particular area they place a monitor in that area and track
the noise levels. This would help them determine if the noise level is a problem. Leqve
explained that MAC has a long history of doing that type of monitoring around the
airport. Putting monitors throughout the community is a big investment. They are not
opposed to doing that but he questioned what the end result would be. If someone has
a problem with the noise, it is an objective thing. However, if McKewan's intent is to
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
May 10, 2007
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gather information to understand noise monitoring, Leqve said they have that
information available.
Harris suggested that they run a report showing the flight tracks for a couple of months
between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. to show the activity at Flying Cloud Airport. They could
provide a summary similar to the summary they run regarding complaints. There are
some repeat offenders who operate between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. but one operator is
doing medical type flights. Harris said they do send letters as required and the
response they receive back shows them it was an acceptable flight. Leqve informed the
Commission that the flight information is available on MAC's website. Kipp said
there is also a link to this information on the City's website.
King asked that whatever information they could provide the Commission regarding
repeat offenders would be appreciated and this information could be presented at the
July 12 meeting. He said they are not pushing to get private data released but they
would like a summary of repeat offenders and the excused flights. King said he
realizes there is nothing they can do about these repeat offenders but they can be
educated on it.
McKewan asked if Life Link, a 7-day a week, 24 hour a day, 365 days a year
operation, was aware that there was a voluntary noise restriction 9 hours out of the day
at Flying Cloud ahead of time or did they just discover it when it was brought to their
attention. And, moving forward, McKewan asked how this issue would be addressed
in the future. Leqve responded that if Flying Cloud Airport makes sense business wise
to an operator, they would probably not have a problem with the noise restriction. The
noise restriction is a voluntary program and a high percentage of the users realize the
importance of that facility and they want to be a good neighbor and if they are
operating during the restriction it is because they have to. Schendel said there is an
airport directory that has the noise restriction information in it.
Harris explained that Flying Cloud has very little turnover with the people working
directly with the flight crew. Harris said they do a good job in giving individual
briefings to the airport users and as part of those briefings noise abatement is a topic of
discussion. It is their responsibility to inform the operators of MAC's expectations.
Harris said it is time for them to have their annual noise briefing and this is done at
their annual meeting with the pilot and recreational user groups. King said he would
like the Commission to be kept informed of any of those types of meetings. Harris said
the meeting would probably piggyback on the town hall meeting to talk about a variety
of airport issues. Harris indicated that they would keep the Commission apprised of all
of the meetings at all of the airports. Larsen said he feels it is important that members
of this Commission make an appearance at those meetings.
X. OTHER BUSINESS (Various FYI Items)
0 Approved minutes for January 11, 2007 Commission meeting
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
May 10, 2007
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• Approved minutes for February 20, 2007 Council Workshop and Council meeting on
Sewer and Water
• March 6, 2007 City Manager Report on Citizen Advisory Commissions, including
approved minutes
• Approved minutes for March 20, 2007 Council Workshop and Council meeting
pertaining to Flying Cloud Airport
• March 20 City Council presentation on 2006 Report and 2007 Goals, including
approved minutes and approved 2007 Goals
• March 20 City Council presentation on Helicopter Noise Concerns Update, including
approved minutes
• April 16 PowerPoint presentation to MAC Commission
• April 17 City Council presentation from Life Link III
• Zero Expansion/Talktrans materials
• Various airport related articles from EP News and Sun Current
• Thank you letters to Ron Muntifering of Air Methods and Rick Bresin of Aviation
Center
• Wall Street Journal Articles
• Next meeting is tentatively scheduled for May 31, 2007
XI. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Motion was made by Schendel, seconded by Larsen, to adjourn the meeting.
Motion carried, 7-0. The meeting adjourned at 10:05 p.m.