HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 03/08/2007 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY, MARCH 8, 2007 7:00 P.M.
Minneapolis Community & Technical
College—Aviation Center
10100 Flying Cloud Drive
Eden Prairie, MN 55347
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Rick King, Vice-Chair Jeff Larsen,
Commissioners: Greg McKewan,
Mark Michelson
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Joe Harris, Kurt Schendel, Brad Stratton
VISITORS: Scott Skramstad, MAC
Warren McVey, FAA Representative
Ron Muntifering, Air Methods, Inc.
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner
Peggy Rasmussen, Recorder
CALL TO ORDER
Chair King called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
I. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
King requested that Item IV be moved ahead of Item III.
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Larsen, to move Item IV to Item III. Motion
carried 4-0.
II. APPROVAL OF JANUARY 11, 2007 MINUTES
Michelson made a correction on page 6, the second sentence in the last paragraph, which
should read "Michelson responded that back in the 90's the newspaper published . . ."
King noted a correction on page 5, under item 2., the 61h bullet should be "FBOs/FCM —
Based Businesses", and the 7t' bullet should be "Hobbyists." On page 10, under VIL, in
the third bullet from the end the word "letter"is missing a "C'
MOTION: Larsen moved, seconded by Michelson, to approve the minutes of the Flying
Cloud Airport Advisory Commission held on January 11, 2007 as corrected. Motion
carried 4-0.
III. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
A. TOUR OF LIFE LINK III HELICOPTER
The Commissioners took a tour of the Life Link III helicopter with Air Methods,
Inc. manager Ron Muntifering and met one of the Life Link III crews, then
returned to the meeting room at 7:30 p.m.
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Muntifering said he works for Air Methods, the vendor for Life Link III, located
out of Denver. It started in 1980 with one helicopter. There are now 80 bases,
over 200 helicopters and 600 pilots. Life Link III started helicopter service with a
base in St. Paul in 1985. In 1999 they added a base in St. Cloud, and a base in
Hutchinson in 2005. The base at Eden Prairie's Flying Cloud Airport, which is
their newest one, started just one month ago.
Life Link III usually gets calls to pick up patients at small-town hospitals and then
transport them to larger hospitals in Minneapolis and St. Paul. However, about 10
percent of runs are to the actual scene of the accident and 30 to 40 percent are
trauma patients. Many of the patients are children or babies. In those cases, the
helicopter flies from the airport to Children's Hospital in Minneapolis or St. Paul
to pick up a neonatal team before flying to the location where the patient is,
usually a small hospital. There is always a crew on stand-by at all four bases.
Muntifering said Life Link III is very concerned about the noise caused by
helicopters and has worked with the public from the start about the noise problem.
He hopes to keep the noise at a minimum as much as possible.
Kipp said the training of the helicopter pilots out of Flying Cloud triggered a lot
of the complaint calls recently. Muntifering replied this helicopter, a 222, has
been here since early in February. That is why the noise complaints have gone
up. McVey pointed out that most of the training takes place at Flying Cloud
Airport. McKewan said Council Member Kathy Nelson was sure a helicopter had
been hovering over her house at 2 a.m. one morning. Michelson noted the
majority of complaints are along the helicopter's flight tracks.
Michelson told Muntifering that Life Link III is providing a great service to the
community and it is appreciated. These flights are necessary.
Muntifering said they could do training flights at other airports south of the metro
area. If Eden Prairie has some type of community celebration days, his team
would be more than happy to land the helicopter at the airport here and show it to
the public. Michelson said there are a number of opportunities of this type in
Eden Prairie.
King said the local newspaper could be contacted to find out if they would do a
feature story about Life Link III, including something about the helicopter
operations and flight patterns. That would make a good article. In the summer, a
connection could be made with a community event. Kipp could make the
arrangements if he gets the name of the contact person at Life Link III. Also, he
asked Kipp to take the information back to the City Manager that it might be
worth having Muntifering make an appearance before the City Council. He could
speak about having the training off-site, etc. Kipp replied it would be worth
bringing it to the attention of the City Manager regarding an appearance before
the City Council.
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King thanked Muntifering for coming and said it was very timely to have this
opportunity to see the Life Link III helicopter.
B. TOUR OF MINNEAPOLIS TECHNICAL COLLEGE AIR TRAFFIC
CONTROL TRAINING CENTER
Later in the evening Rick Breslin, an information technical specialist and
instructor with the Air Traffic Control Training Center, led a tour of the training
center.
IV. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. FEBRUARY 20, 2007 CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP
King noted that the feedback on the workshop and the publicity the Commission
received were good. Scott Neal and Mayor Young told him they were very
pleased with the workshop presentation. Kipp replied he believed the Council
was very impressed with the organizational structure of the presentation. It set the
tone for other commissions to follow.
Michelson said he got reaction from residents about the idea of "marketing" the
airport after the newspaper articles came out. It is unfortunate the newspapers
picked up on that word because a lot of people reacted negatively. They wanted
to know how the City could do that. Michelson told them the idea is to have
additional information about the airport going out from the City to businesses, so
the firestorm was quickly put out. Kipp said Scott Neal ordinarily forwards any
letters he receives from the public on to him.
McKewan said people saw his name in the paper and was told he should not be
marketing the airport;he should be trying to shut it down.
Kipp said people might be reacting to the city's offer to get sewer and water to the
airport. The City is offering to finance this for the airport over a period of time
because MAC is not generating the funds to accomplish it, and the City wants that
to go ahead because of concerns about water quality, fire protection, and for
economic reasons.
McKewan noted that Council Member Sherry Butcher said something about
improving the appearance of the hangars, and people told him they like that idea.
Larsen reported that he attended a meeting of the Eden Prairie Chamber of
Commerce Government Committee, representing the Commission. The chair of
the Committee, Dick Ward, was extremely happy that there seems to be such a
positive new attitude on the part of the City Council and new Flying Cloud
Airport Advisory Commission with regard to talking about Flying Cloud Airport.
Kipp distributed some additional information that has been gathered since the
Commissioners' packets went out. One was a letter to Jeff Hamiel, executive
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director of MAC, from Scott Neal, stressing the importance of extending City
water and sewer services into Flying Cloud and asking for his support.
There was also a letter from Scott Neal to the City's federal legislators, asking for
support in the EIS process and for the expansion, showing that the City is
expressing support for the airport.
King said one result of the publicity was to let people know the Commission
exists and now is more active, which then percolates feedback from the public,
and that means the Commission is doing a good job. He has heard from Karla
Wennerstrom of the Eden Prairie News about doing more articles on the
Commission. If the Commission has more information, she would be happy to
publicize it.
B. COMMISSION "TOP 5 LIST" OF ISSUES (CONTINUED DISCUSSION)
King said the Commission's 2007 Work Plan is basically formed by the City
Council's approval of the two slides shown by the Commission at the workshop.
He asked if any of the Commissioners had thought any further about the Top 5
List and what was covered on those slides. He asked if there is anything to add to
the list. If not, that list, which was approved at the last Commission meeting, will
be the goals for 2007.
Larsen suggested adding the Eden Prairie Chamber of Commerce under "Develop
Key Relationships", because the Chamber is going to have a major impact on
developments. He would like Scott Kipp to memorialize the final copy.
Larsen noted that there were actually two presentations at the meeting with the
Council; the unedited version of all commissioners' Top 5 Lists collected by
Kipp; and a two page synopsis of those lists prepared by he and Michelson.
Larsen asked Kipp if there were any copies of the Top 5 Lists, as it was presented,
for everyone to have. Kipp offered to e-mail them to everybody.
King recommended that the Commissioners agree to make the amendments of the
wording Kipp already made, add Chamber of Commerce to the list, and they
would then have their 2007 Work Plan.
Larsen said he took the names off the summary of the detail; letters were
arbitrarily assigned. Kipp asked if they wanted the e-mail to include people's
comments without the names added. Larsen replied they want the list of
comments without the names.
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Larsen, to take the slides from the
meeting held recently and memorialize them, with the changes discussed tonight.
Add Eden Prairie Chamber of Commerce to the top slide under "Develop Key
Relationships", and redo the bottom slide under "Business Development" to read
"FCM presented as a competitive advantage for the City", and remove "If so,
should the marketing take more visible role?" Motion carried 4-0.
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C. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE MEETING ON MARCH 6, 2007
King had been invited to attend the Chamber of Commerce Government
Committee meeting on March 6 but was unable to go, so he asked Larsen to take
his place. Dick Ward is the Chair of that Committee. Larsen said the committee
discussed the future of Flying Cloud Airport with MAC Chairman Lanners and
other development personnel from MAC, as well as Joe Smith from Elliott
Aviation. Mayor Phil Young was also present. The Chamber of Commerce
needed input from MAC regarding the status of expansion at Flying Cloud.
Larsen said the Chamber is pleased with MAC's approach to the expansion at
Flying Cloud, and also that the City Council seems to be in support of the work.
MAC and businesses in the city are interested in going ahead with the expansion
of the airport and new hangars as soon as possible. There is interest in
participation by the Flying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission in some form.
There might be an opportunity to participate in some of the discussions that will
take place in the future.
Regarding expansion at Flying Cloud, Larsen reported that MAC said there had
been several programs at Anoka and Blaine that were higher in priority. A
number of those have been completed, and MAC is interested in putting Flying
Cloud at the top of the list of work that has to be done.
At this point MAC does not have the $22 million needed for expansion and new
hangars. MAC expressed interest in public partnerships, talking to and getting
input from major users of the airport, and trying to develop revenue streams to
support the work. They also expressed interest in getting together with the
Chamber of Commerce to find out who might be interested in partnering with
them in the expansion project. In addition, they are looking into getting non-
aeronautical revenue streams from parcels near the airport. It is very difficult to
obtain money from Washington for the expansion, so it would be best to find
financial resources within this group.
Larsen said, in terms of a timeline, obviously that depends on the money. It
appears the first runway is budgeted at $900,000. MAC either has that money
now or it would be available, but it is trying to find money for the other runway.
The Anoka airport work will probably be done next spring, subject to changes,
reviews and funding.
Larsen reported that Lanners is planning to get people together in order to find
businesses interested in the financial components. He would like the business
group to work together. There has been talk about trying the same method used in
finding the various financial components for building the third ice rink at the
Community Center. These people have not come forward yet, but it is believed
that when the financial components are pulled together, they will come forward.
MAC was assured the Chamber is interested. They believe there will be people
behind the scenes working on this to keep it going.
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Larsen sent a letter to Dick Ward to thank him for the opportunity to attend the
meeting. If the City Council is interested in having the Flying Cloud Airport
Advisory Commission involved, Larsen offered to help. Kipp said he and Dave
Lindahl would probably be participants from the City. Gene Dietz was also
mentioned.
King inquired if the question of the soccer field came up. Larsen answered that it
did not. King said the City will have a very strong position on the soccer field
and would want that to remain in the current configuration. Kipp agreed that if
MAC starts to look at the ball fields as optional, they would get quite a bit of
feedback from the public. McKewan added there would be a large protest.
King thanked Larsen for going to the meeting in his place. Shortly after the
workshop with the Council, the Mayor sent him a note saying that he should go to
the meeting. King said he believes the Flying Cloud Airport Advisory
Commission should be represented and involved. Larsen said he was surprised
how quickly this meeting with the Council happened and he is happy with the
way the Commission approached the Council.
D. FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION WEB SITE
King distributed a handout about the City's Web site as it relates to the
Commission. He said the Commissioners had talked about the need for
communication and working on the Web site. He met with the City's technical
staff. They talked about ways to clean up the Web site so it would be ready to put
up information that is helpful to the public. It might include maps, a noise
complaint form, power points, etc. It has been changed now so when people log
on they are directed to the Flying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission, and that
branches into the agenda and minutes for the past year and the current year.
King recommended reviewing and revising the paragraphs titled "About the
Commission", "Airport History" and "MAC Expansion Plans." King said
McKewan has consented to do that work and he could contact Stratton to work
with him. McKewan could e-mail the other Commissioners and ask for feedback
before the next meeting so the changes might be approved at that meeting.
Michelson said people have asked him how to get in touch with the
Commissioners by looking at the Web site, and he could not figure it out. He
believes that information should be up front. King said the information the
Commissioners provided when they signed up is available if people call and ask.
Michelson noted that the Council has one e-mail address for all Council
Members. He asked if the Commission could have a site that states "All
Commission Members", and messages could go to Kipp to forward to the
appropriate Commissioner. Kipp responded that the City Council is elected, and
City staff is paid to speak on behalf of the City, so that could be an issue because
the Commission is only advisory to the City Council. The staff person for the
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Web site takes questions that come in through e-mail and sends them to the
appropriate staff person. Kipp offered to forward questions on to the
Commission. King said Kipp's e-mail address should be put on the Flying Cloud
Airport Advisory Commission site as the Commission's representative.
McKewan said the Web site will involve more than fixing some language. For
example, the "Airport" link should show other links. All options should be there.
Kipp said some links work better than others; staff is trying to make it better.
McKewan asked Kipp if it would violate the open-meeting law if he e-mailed
everyone on the Commission to ask what they want to see on the first page. Kipp
replied he believed it could be a problem if McKewan asked people to respond to
his e-mail, because that might be considered an on-line meeting. Kipp promised
to check with City staff to see if there is an e-mail policy and whether or not that
would be permissible. They may have a process to do this. King said if Kipp
advises that we should not do it, then we will have to change our style of
communicating.
King told McKewan that City staff has their website template set up a certain way
and he will have to work with it. King asked Kipp to talk to Pat Brink before
McKewan meets with him, to brief him about what McKewan wants to do on the
Web site.
V. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC
A. NOISE COMPLAINTS/STAGE 2 OPERATIONS REPORT (JAN-FEB)
Skramstad handed out copies of the noise complaint summary for January and
February and a map showing the locations of the complaints. He said 90 total
complaints were received from 16 complainants, 67 of them filed through e-mail.
Eighty of the complaints came in February. Thirty-nine complaints were for
excessive helicopter noise, most of which were in February. Forty-eight
complaints were filed for operations conducted between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. and
they were investigated. Nineteen letters were sent to owners/operators.
Skramstad said he had not contacted helicopter pilots yet; he will see what can be
worked out with them in the future.
Maps of helicopter noise complaints and flight tracks for January-February were
reviewed. King said this was exactly what the Commission asked for, and he
asked if helicopter tracks could be made a part of the packet in the future. The
maps show the path of flights that go to hospitals to pick up teams.
Skramstad said Muntifering indicated he is quite willing to work with MAC. Life
Link III could be asked to take a different track, perhaps over the river, if there is
an opportunity in a non-critical flight. King said the Commissioners are in
support of their work. Kipp said Life Link III could be asked to have their
training elsewhere. The Commission would want to encourage that.
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Kipp asked what is the next step regarding the helicopters. Skramstad replied he
suggested to Harris and Muntifering that MAC staff should put ideas on the table
and bring them back to the Commission. King said that would be appropriate.
The Commission would also want to send a letter about this to Life Link III and
thank them for coming and bringing the aircraft. It should also state that the
Commission would like to work with them on the training location and ask them
about their making an appearance before the City Council.
Larsen asked Skramstad if he knows in a given period how many different people
make complaints. Skramstad replied usually there is a core of the same people.
What was unique this time is a large increase in the number of people who
complain about helicopter noise. There were about 40 complaints.
McKewan asked if the people near Grace Church are in a noise abatement zone.
Skramstad said no. Kipp said noise attenuation is being done on all new housing
construction in Hennepin Village. Most houses being constructed today will likely
meet the new construction standards for noise attenuation based on current
building energy codes.
McKewan said it seems noise lasts a lot longer for helicopters than for other
aircraft. Kipp explained that the sound of a helicopter spreads out much farther
because of the lower decibel levels. However, he believes the helicopter issue
will be resolved. King said the training of helicopter pilots goes in six-month
cycles, so the Commission would want to monitor the noise complaints through a
whole cycle. The last training was in February.
McKewan said having Muntifering go before the City Council is an excellent
idea. That will start the relationship off on the right foot. King said the
Commission might want to do a follow-up letter to the Council and tell them what
the Commissioners have been discussing, and let them know February was a
training month. McKewan added that an article in the Eden Prairie News would
also be a good idea.
VI. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
A. FLIGHT TRACK DATA MAPS (NOV, DEC)
Skramstad presented flight track data to the Commission for the November-
December period
VII. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Various FYI Items
• MAC Long Term Comprehensive Plan Update
• Sewer and Water at FCM
• Letter to Elliott Aviation on New Aircraft, dated February 9, 2007
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
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• Approved Minutes for November 9, 2006 Commission Meeting
• Next Meeting is Scheduled for May 10, 2007
• Letter to Jeff Hamiel on Sewer and Water at FCM, dated March 8, 2007
• Letter to Federal Legislators that City Supports Expansion of Airport
• Larson E-Mail to thank D. Ward for Meeting with Government Committee
• Eden Prairie Chamber of Commerce Position Paper on Airport Expansion
• Kipp's Presentation to the Planning Commission on 2008 Guide Plan Update
• Community Development Department 2006 Annual Report
• Scott Neal's Blog of March 7, titled "Communication is the Key"
• Article on Seeking Better Communications Between Commissions and the
Council
• Memo from FAA on Updated Hiring Plan to Hire Air Traffic Controllers
B. SUBMITTING 2006 FINAL REPORT AND 2007 WORK PLAN
Kipp offered to submit the 2006 Final Report and the 2007 Work Plan, with a
cover memo asking that the Council accept it and also endorse what was set forth
in the February 20"'meeting.
King wondered if the Commission's year-end reports should have more structure
and detail in the future. The Commissioners didn't have time for the 2006 report,
but there will be an increase in the frequency of meetings this year. They could
decide next time if they want to add more detail. King said he thought the
Commission should ask for formal approval by the Council.
MOTION: King moved, seconded by Larsen, to ask Kipp to submit to the
Council the Commission's 2006 report and 2007 goals that were presented at the
workshop, with an attached memo seeking the Council's Resolution and
Endorsement. Motion carried 4-0.
C. MISCELLANOUS ITEMS
King inquired if there was any interest in having a Commission dinner once a
year, perhaps before a meeting. Or, if he were having dinner somewhere, would
other Commissioners like to join him to visit outside of a meeting. Kipp
cautioned the Commission about violating the open-meeting law.
McKewan wondered if the Commission is meeting often enough, or should it be
meeting every month. People who miss a meeting have to wait another two
months for the next meeting. MAC representatives would not always have to be
present. Michelson replied it depends on how much the Commissioners want to
accomplish.
Kipp said they have to consider where the Flying Cloud Airport Advisory
Commission started. When it was first recruited, the meetings were quarterly.
Staff handles a lot of what is discussed at meetings as part of their job. It isn't
necessary for the Commission to be involved in the day to day details. Kipp said
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
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he believed the Council would want the Commission to continue to meet bi-
monthly.
King said if the Commissioners divide up the work as much as they can and have
people report at the meetings, then they will be very productive. Michelson said
he believed the way they meet is working out well.
King reported he extended an invitation to Jeff Hamiel, Executive Director of
MAC, to come and visit him at his workplace. Hamiel has talked about meeting
with the Flying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission in May. King said he would
also talk to him about meeting with the MAC Commission. This Commission can
thank him for the support Skramstad has provided and also Harris. The
Commission has had strong support from MAC and Hamiel needs to hear that.
Larsen asked, with regard to getting people's input, if the Commission has any
plans to deal with members of the public at a meeting. Obviously, the
Commissioners are very restricted in what they can do or say because they don't
have any authority,but they could act as a liaison and pass along information.
King responded that what they would try to do if people visited the Commission
is set aside an amount of time at the beginning of the meeting for people to tell
them what they came to say, and the Commission would take it under advisement,
or refer the matter to someone, etc. King said, if five or ten people show up and
want to speak for five minutes, it would be part of his duty to conduct this with a
more rigorous approach to the rules so they address him when asking questions,
and the Commission retains control of the meeting. However, the Commissioners
do want to hear them, and he believes the Commission should encourage people if
they want to speak at a meeting. If they know of anyone, King said to tell him
ahead of time. Those people will be given time to be heard and it will be recorded
in the minutes.
Larsen said with more publicity and noise complaints, the Commission is going to
attract much more interest and should decide how it wants to approach that
situation. King said the Commission would be meeting in the City Center in a
fairly small room, so if visitors come they may have to move to a bigger room.
The first time that happens they will have to consider how to handle it. The
Commissioners will give great respect to people who show up and talk. Their
time would be limited and Commissioners will expect them to be as respectful as
the Commissioners will be to them.
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Michelson moved, seconded by Larsen, to adjourn the meeting. Motion
carried 4-0. Chair King adjourned the meeting at 10:18 p.m.