HomeMy WebLinkAboutFlying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission - 01/11/2007 APPROVED MINUTES
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION
THURSDAY,JANUARY 11, 2007 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
Prairie Room A & B
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Rick King, Vice-Chair Jeff Larsen,
Commissioners: Joe Harris, Greg McKewan,
Mark Michelson, Kurt Schendel and Brad
Stratton
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
VISITORS: Scott Skramstad, MAC
Warren McVey, FAA Representative
STAFF: Scott Kipp, Senior Planner
Carol Pelzel, City Recorder
CALL TO ORDER
Chair King called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
I. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Larsen moved, seconded by Harris, to approve the agenda as published.
Motion carried, 7-0.
II. APPROVAL OF NOVEMBER 9, 2006 MINUTES
King asked that on Page 2 of the minutes the sentence "King explained that this item will
be a permanent part of the agenda"be deleted.
MOTION: Harris moved, seconded by Michelson, to approve the November 9, 2006
minutes as corrected. Motion carried 6-0-1, with Schendel abstaining because of
absence from that meeting.
III. DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. Commission "Top 5 List" of Issues to Discuss
King explained that Larsen and Michelson had developed a "Top 5" list for discussion
by this Commission. In the meantime, King said he had received a letter from the City
Manager asking the Commission to start thinking about things for discussion points
for a joint meeting with the Mayor and City Council. The new Mayor wants to
communicate more with the various Commissions and to discuss what the
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 11, 2007
Page 2
Commissions want to do. This discussion this evening will be a good starting point for
gathering this information.
Larsen said he appreciated the fact that everyone responded and sent him their top five
lists. He explained that some of the responses were quite lengthy and detailed and he
abbreviated this information for the list. Larsen explained the process for developing
the list indicating that they broke the information down into distinct categories. The
categories included Education/Information, Noise/Expansion, Relationships,
Improvements at Flying Cloud Airport and Business Development. He further
explained that they assigned a letter to each of the Commissioners and after that they
numbered the items on that particular Commissioner's top five list. Three of the
Commissioner's top five were in Education/Information; two were in the
Noise/Expansion section; one in Relationships; and one in Improvements at Flying
Cloud Airport. Larsen stated that if they weighted the comments correctly, they would
find that the number one item for discussion would be in the Education/Information
section. With regard to Business Development, Larsen said the Commission will need
to decide how they want to be involved in that.
Kipp explained that the Mayor is looking at getting more feedback from the
Commissions and business development may be something that can be discussed with
the Mayor and Council. The City Council may decide this is not the direction they
want this Commission to go or they could assign the Commission other tasks.
King thanked Larsen and Michelson for compiling this information. He stated that one
way to look at this information is to focus on at least the things the Commission agrees
to include on the list. This would be a starting point and they could always discuss
other issues. King suggested that they focus on three or four things that the entire
Commission agrees on and to add to that list items they will discuss but disagree on.
Larsen said it was suggested that they put information on the City's website as to the
types of aircraft that use Flying Cloud. Kipp explained that MAC does have a report
and photos of the types of planes that use Flying Cloud on their website and the City's
website does have a link to MAC's website. Michelson pointed out that most residents
don't think of MAC as owning the airport but that it is owned by the City. Kipp said
there are ways to fine tune the City's website for better links to the various sources.
Larsen suggested that in conjunction with Education/Information they may want to
have the local newspaper do an article on medical flights that occur at Flying Cloud.
He felt that a story on the Heart Link would be a good one. Harris said that would
make for a good story and there are stories on both sides of the spectrum. Larsen said
he feels the community is better at accepting things when they understand them.
Michelson questioned how they should move forward. He suggested that they follow
MAC's CIP as to what is going to occur at the airport. Harris explained that the CIP is
not cast in stone. Projects depend on whether or not they can secure funding and what
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 11, 2007
Page 3
happens with the airline industry. He indicated that the CIP for 2007 is pretty well
fixed but priorities do change. Harris explained that staff does anticipate these projects
taking place but whether or not that happens is another question. King said
Michelson's idea is probably the right idea but they do not want to get too far ahead of
the approval process. Some of what they are talking about is more general.
Larsen said he feels that the general public does not know that this Commission is
back in existence. Michelson said that that is where education needs to come in and he
asked how versed the City Council is with regards to the airport. He questioned how
familiar they are with the operations and slated improvements. Kipp explained that a
workshop is held each year to go over what is happening at Flying Cloud Airport.
King said he did meet with the City Manager and there is a tentative workshop with
the City Council and this Commission scheduled for February 20. King suggested they
review the items listed on the "Top 5" list and flag what they want to present to the
City Council at that workshop. He indicated that a big part of this workshop will be to
educate the Mayor and Council as to what this Commission is attempting to
accomplish and to ask for guidance on their mission and for feedback on how they
should go about educating the public. Stratton asked if the City has a public relations
department. Kipp responded that there is a Communications Department that
maintains the City's website and operates the cable channel, deals with the
newspapers, and prepares a newsletter, etc. Stratton said everyone reads the Sun
Newspaper, Eden Prairie Magazine and information distributed by the City. He asked
how information is provided to those various publications. Kipp said the City's
Communications Department provides them with information and reporters also attend
City Council meetings.
King said they could suggest at the Council workshop that this Commission would
like the assistance of the City's Communications Department to contact the various
news media to place an article in those publications about the airport and the Airport
Commission. Michelson suggested that they put together a press release about this
Commission. Larsen said they should also explain what is happening at Flying Cloud
and explain that there are new reporting procedures for noise complaints. This once
again falls under the Education/Information designation. King explained that they
need the City Council to concur with this and to support it before they move forward
with this.
Kipp said the joint workshop would be a good opportunity for this Commission to
advise the Council of their desire to educate the general public. This workshop will
also give the Council the opportunity to tell this Commission whether or not they are
on track and to also provide this Commission with some direction.
Stratton said he believes they could break their list down to two or three issues in each
category. He suggested that they do an executive summary for the City Council.
Larsen said there is a variety of things that were compiled on this list and certain
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 11, 2007
Page 4
sections could be put on the back burner. He feels that Education/Information has to
happen first and the Business Development section is probably most removed from
this list.
King discussed the first item on the list which was Education/Information. He
explained that this would include information about the FCAA Commission which
could be included on the City's web site with a direct link to MAC. A brief
explanation of the relationship and the links should be included. Stratton said he feels
this Commission must also understand MAC and he suggested that they even attend a
MAC meeting. McKewan said it is important that they have better maps and easy to
read maps on the City's website. Harris said this all goes back to enhancing the City's
website. Larsen said the website should also include information about the actual noise
reporting procedure and what the expected response will be. Kipp pointed out that the
City's website does include a link to where complaints can be made in terms of noise.
King explained that at this Commission's last meeting they did ask MAC to look at
responding to noise complaint e-mails and they were very responsive to that.
Michelson suggested that one of their goals be to develop a press release to the
community telling them about this Commission and what they are doing and if people
want additional information on the Commission where they can find that information.
Michelson said he feels this should be one of their top priorities.
King recommended that a subgroup of this Committee meet to develop a more in-
depth list to be presented to the Council at the February 20 workshop. Once that list is
developed they can forward it to the remaining Commission members for their review.
Larsen pointed out that the second section, Noise/Expansion,had very divergent
viewpoints. He also pointed out that the section on Business Development is the one
area they have the least amount of control over.
King said he feels the runway expansion and improvements fall into a common area.
The decision to expand the runway has been made but funding isn't there. It is
important that everyone understands the expansion and they need to keep track of the
final agreement and to make sure that everything is going okay. Kipp suggested that
this be included in the education piece.
Michelson suggested that they include something on the revenue diversion issue and
he assumes the City will want an update as to when it will be resolved. Harris pointed
out that that is something between MAC and NWA. Kipp explained that the City
Manager is aware of what is happening.
King said he has prepared a report showing what this Commission has done over the
past year. This will provide the Council with some background information prior to
their workshop.
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 11, 2007
Page 5
Stratton said he feels that the history is very important but he believes that what they
are trying to accomplish is more relative. He suggested that an executive summary be
completed and then explain what this Commission is trying to accomplish. Kipp
pointed out that there are three new members on the City Council and they don't have
the history of the airport or of this Commission. He suggested that they provide them
with some background information.
The Commission agreed that the following items should be included on their"Top 5"
list:
1. Education/Information
■ About FCAAC
■ Enhance EP web site (links)
■ About MAC
■ About FCM
■ Our priorities (February 20 workshop)
■ (El) Easy to read maps
■ Noise reporting procedure information
■ Public Relations —Re: Commission
■ Monitoring and communication Re: Final Agreement
2. Relationship ....
■ MAC
■ FAA
■ EP City Government
■ FCAAC
■ Citizens
■ FBO's/FCM—Bases Businesses
■ Hobbyists
■ MnDOT Aeronautics
3. Noise/Expansion
4. Improvements at FCM
5. Business Development
Michelson and Larsen volunteered to assist King in preparing the information to be
presented to the City Council. Harris said he would be happy to compile the necessary
information from MAC records. King said they would put something together and e-
mail it to the Commission members for their comment.
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 11, 2007
Page 6
B. Flyins! Cloud Airport: Nei!hborhood Perspective
Michelson explained that he has been part of the group that has been in opposition to
the airport and its expansion. He said he has met with some of the neighbors to the
airport to get their perspective. Michelson explained that he has divided the various
groups into the following categories:
Unengaged Group—These people are not involved beyond their own circumstances.
They don't voice an opinion and they really don't know how they feel about the
airport.
Airport Supporters —This group is aviation enthusiasts and is here because the airport
is here. There is a subgroup that supports the airport but is not behind an expansion.
They like the airport as it is.
Land Use Group—This group feels the airport property could be used for better
purposes. They feel the airport is not only a negative but is a drain on the City's
economy as well. They would love to see the airport go away entirely and become a
residential/business development. If the airport were to go away, they feel their
property values would improve, the City would benefit from more desirable
development, a larger property tax base, more parkland and in general, everything
would be better.
Management Group—This group watches Minnesota State Government and MAC's
dealings with NWA and kind of lumps all of aviation in one basket. They don't
understand the relationship between MAC and NWA and NWA and the State. They
disagree with it. They are watching the headlines, but usually not reading much after
the first paragraph. They feel if NWA left, airfares would go down, there would be
more competition and it would be a healthier business environment.
Ordinance 51 Group—These people were around when Ordinance 51 was originally
negotiated in 1978. They feel that MAC betrayed their trust and are reneging on
Ordinance 51.
Pollution Group —This group goes beyond noise pollution. They are concerned about
particulate pollution or toxic emissions. They believe the airport is a big source of
pollution and the more active the airport becomes the more pollution they will get.
Stratton asked if any studies have been done at the airport as it relates to emissions.
Michelson responded that back in the 90's Newspapers published an article on
emissions comparing the oil refinery in Dakota County and the airport and it found
that the airport had higher emissions. Skramstad said an article has also been
published indicating that the airport is not the primary contributor of green house
gases and that the levels at the airport are no higher than those found on major
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 11, 2007
Page 7
highways. Michelson said that people hold these believes whether they are right or
wrong and they feel that the airlines contibute to green house gasses.
Property Values Group—Michelson explained that this is one of the larger groups and
they feel that MAC and future expansion of Flying Cloud will affect the value of their
home. Noise affects home values and their home is their largest investment. They feel
that an airport is a negative to the immediate neighbors.
Security and Safety Group—This group believes there are security and safety issues at
the airport and any expansion will augment this problem. This group could be divided
into two groups; one concerned with the actual safety and the other one is concerned
with security such as homeland security.
Taxpayers Group —This is a small group. They don't like the airport and they don't
like government supporting the aviation agency with subsidies and grants. They
believe publicly supporting the airport is like publicly supporting sports stadiums.
Wait and See Group —Michelson stated that this is the largest group in Eden Prairie.
After the Agreement was made, the City dropped its opposition and members of Zero
Expansion made public statements accepting the Agreement as the best the City could
do, a lot of the opposition stepped down. Couple that with annually decreasing
operations at Flying Cloud and what many perceive as financial or funding problems
with MAC, many residents are content to wait and see what's going to happen next.
Kipp asked if there are any active groups meeting. Michelson said that the Talk Trans
and Zero Expansion groups merged and do get together occasionally. He is not aware
of any other activity. Michelson explained that there are a lot of misconceptions out
there. Kipp pointed out that part of their communication piece should be that this
Commission is open to the public.
C. Council Interaction with Boards and Commissions
King explained that a memo from the City Manager was included in the Commission's
agenda material regarding Council interaction with Boards and Commissions. The
Commission had talked about this very thing at their last meeting. King said he did
talk to the City Manager about some of the ideas this Commission has and they will be
having a joint meeting with the City Council.
D. Draft Year-End Report of Advisory Commission to City Council
King explained that he had prepared a sample report of the Flying Cloud Airport
Advisory Commission for the City Council. A copy of that draft report was included in
the Commission's agenda material. Kipp said he feels this is a good start to
summarize the Commission's activities from the last year. He suggested that they
consider developing a work plan for endorsement by the Council as part of this
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 11, 2007
Page 8
process. King said they could continually refresh the report and submit that to the
Council. He asked the Commission if they felt this was a good idea as far as working
with the City Council.
Harris said he liked the report and feels it is a great way to stay in front of the Council
and the City Manager. This will let them know where the Commission is at, where
they will be and where they are going. Stratton said the report shows that this
Commission is proactive and not reactive. Kipp pointed out that it is important to keep
the report concise and to the point. King said he would include the focus of this
Commission for 2007 and they could go through this report with the Council at the
joint February 20 meeting. He indicated that this information would be submitted to
the Council before that meeting.
Motion: Schendel moved, seconded by Stratton, to accept the draft report of the
Flying Cloud Airport Advisory Commission to the City Council with the additions and
edits that the Chair of this Commission feels appropriate and once the report is
updated, it be e-mailed to the Commissioners for their final review. The motion
carried, 7-0.
IV. EDUCATIONAL ITEMS
A. Reliever Airports Task Force Update
Harris said there is not a lot of new information to report in regards to the Reliever
Airport Task Force. They are in a holding pattern due to negotiations with NWA.
Harris reported that at the last Task Force meeting, it was indicated that an agreement
might be finalized with the airlines, which will launch reliever airport staff to hold
town hall meetings around the reliever airport system. Other issues being discussed are
non-aeronautical lands around airports and revisions to rates and charges. They will
also be discussing the CIP and other issues such as hangar restoration. Harris said the
agreement between MAC and NWA will be dependent on NWA coming out of
bankruptcy. NWA has indicated that they do not support improvements to Flying
Cloud Airport. Harris said he would let the Commission know when the town hall
meetings will be held.
King said with regard to the town hall meetings,he would like to make it a little more
formal. He said he feels the Commission members should be present at some of these
meetings. King said he feels this Commission should also be involved in the Operator
of the Year award ceremony.
Motion: King moved, seconded by Schendel, that the Flying Cloud Airport Advisory
Commission have a presence at the town hall meeting held at Flying Cloud Airport
and request that MAC schedule that meeting so that a representative or two from this
Commission be in attendance. The motion carried, 7-0.
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 11, 2007
Page 9
Harris presented the operation numbers for 2006 compared to 2005 operation
numbers. There was an eight percent drop in traffic which is consistent throughout the
system. Their busiest months are May through October and these numbers are pretty
consistent from the previous year. These numbers are based on traffic counts only. The
numbers are down about 20 percent for Flying Cloud since 2001 and Anoka is down
40 percent since 2001. Harris explained that there is an increase in fuel flowage and it
appears that it has become more of a corporate driven sector. The national average of
traffic has dipped 12 percent.
V. FINAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN CITY AND MAC
A. Aircraft Noise Complaint Form Revision
Skramstad distributed the noise complaint map to the Commissioners showing where
each person who complained is located in relation to the airport. He also presented the
noise complaint summary. This summary shows how many times an individual
complained, the date and time and the nature of the call. Skramstad explained that
there were a total of 48 complaints from November to December, 2006. One complaint
was filed over the telephone and the remaining 47 were through the interset.
Skramstad said he reviews the complaints to see if they are in violation of the
Voluntary Agreement and if they are he follows up with each violation. Of the 48
complaints, 43 were for operations between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m. They were able to
identify 21 operators that were in violation of the voluntary restrictions for night time
operations. A letter was sent to those operators. Ten were visual aircraft and no
information was available on them. Six of the complaints were related to MSP over
flights and five of the flights between 6 a.m. and 7 a.m. did noise abatement turns
which comply with the operational plan. Skramstad further explained that three of the
complaints were related to medical emergencies with Life Link or North Memorial
helicopter flights.
King said the Commission appreciates this information and the work that Skramstad
does in preparing it. Kipp explained that there are graphics on the MAC web site that
show the flight tracks that the planes take. It also shows the dispersion of the planes.
Skramstad said he could prepare a graphic showing the turn outs. It may be a little
messy if they did it for an entire month. He indicated that he would prepare a month
report and if that was too difficult to read he would do it for a week or two. Skramstad
said he would bring this information to the next meeting of the Commission. King
asked if he could take some of the specific complaints and map them. This would
show them the pattern of the complainers. Skramstad responded that he thought it
would be more interesting to see a larger perspective if they have a couple of days of
consistent arrivals. He said he would look at the information to see what the
Commission may find of interest.
Stratton suggested that they invite some of the complainers to the Commission's
meetings to give them an opportunity to express their opinions. Skramstad stated that
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 11, 2007
Page 10
they are not allowed to give the exact address of someone complaining because it is
private data.
King suggested that the noise complaint information be included for the City
Council's information so that they know that this Commission reviews this
information and discusses it on a regular basis.
King explained that he had received a note from the City Manager Neal stating that
Ian Mackay, Parks Commissioner,had sent a letter to Congressman Ramstad asking
for help regarding the status of the FAA issues between the FAA and MAC. His letter
stated that they were in need of a decision because of some of MAC's land being used
for City parks. Neal indicated that they should be able to move forward once the
revenue diversion suit is settled. King said this is something this Commission could
have looked into had the Parks Commission asked them. King indicated that there
appears to be a need for education among the City's Commissions as well.
VI. NOISE ABATEMENT/AIRCRAFT INCIDENTS
VII. OTHER BUSINESS (Various FYI Items)
• MAC Capital Improvement Program
• Staring Preserve Subdivision
• Whispering Ridge
• New Hanger—Lot 52B
• MAC's proposal for long-Term Stability and Air Service Competitiveness
• MAC Ordinance 78 —Minimum Standards
• Wyle Laboratories —What's in Your DNL
• Wall Street Journal article on Honda Microjet
• Thank you letter to Dave Clark on VLJ presentation
• Approved minutes for May and August Commission meetings
• Next meeting is scheduled for March 8, 2007
It was suggested that the Commission's next meeting be held at the Minneapolis
Technical College at Flying Cloud Airport. This would allow the Commission to tour
the school facility.
Stratton offered to take any Commissioners up in his airplane to show them the turn
and landing configuration that is used at Flying Cloud.
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
FLYING CLOUD AIRPORT ADVISORY COMMISSION MINUTES
January 11, 2007
Page 11
MOTION: Larsen moved, seconded by Schendel, to adjourn the meeting. Motion
carried, 7-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.