HomeMy WebLinkAboutHeritage Preservation - 05/20/2002 APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MONDAY, MAY 20, 2002 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
Prairie Rooms A & B
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Lori Peterson-Benike, Chairperson; Betsy
Adams, Deborah Barkley,Jennie Brown,
Elise Kist, Kati Simons,Art Weeks
COMMISSION STAFF: John Gertz, Historic Preservation Specialist
Peggy Rasmussen, Recorder
STUDEN REPRESENTATIVES: Jane Field, Timothy Roth, Ross Viland
I. ROLL CALL
Peterson-Benike called the meeting to order at 7:07 p.m. Commissioner Barkley was
absent. Commissioner Brown had an excused absence. Student Representatives Roth
and Viland were absent. Commissioner Simons came at 7:12 p.m.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Adams moved, seconded by Weeks, to approve the agenda as published.
Motion carried 4-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A correction was made on page 5, under B., bullet 4, which should read "The wood arbor
will be removed . . ."
MOTION: Kist moved, seconded by Adams, to approve the minutes of the Heritage
Preservation Commission meeting held on April 15, 2002. Motion carried 3-0-1, with
Commissioner Weeks abstaining due to his absence.
IV. REPORTS OF COMMISSION AND STAFF
Minnesota Barn Preservation Workshop
Peterson-Benike reported on attending the workshop, which was held on April 20 at a
farmstead near Waseca. The program was organized by Farmamerica and was sponsored
by SHPO. Tom Woodford, from Woodford Brothers, spoke at the workshop. He
encourages clients to get material locally and to use local contractors. He had examples
of Minnesota barn restoration, including the Dammon barn in Red Wing that has been
restored and adapted to a new use.
There is a Web site for the National Barn Preservation Program: www.barnagain.org. As
the City begins work on the barn at the Riley-Jacques farm, information on this Web site
will be useful.
HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES
May 20, 2002
Page 2
V. OLD BUSINESS
A. Smith-Douglas-More House
Gertz said the HPC was being asked to review and approve the site plan that
evening. The following changes to the plan were reviewed:
Bedroom Wall
Gertz said they have determined that the bedroom wall was original to the house,
and therefore should be left in place. Previously it had been assumed that the wall
was added by Earl More. That fact changes the plans for location of the vestibule
and its size. An opening will be made in the bedroom wall to allow traffic to go
through. Bifold door will occupy space to the left of the opening. Double doors
will be put back where they used to hang.
Wine Bar
Molly Gilbertson was unable to attend the meeting, but told Gertz that Dunn
Brothers will have a license to serve wine. The wine bar will be in the area
between the house and addition. That moves the retail items into the addition.
The location of the service counter will be changed also
Walk-in Cooler
A walk-in cooler will be located in the preparation area in front of a where a
window is shown on the plans. Gertz said the window could be kept in place or it
could be taken out. He asked the HPC to decide.
Peterson-Benike said she would be in favor of keeping the window in the plan
because, from the outside, the appearance of the addition would look better
architecturally. Weeks said, because of the length of Dunn Brothers' lease, which
is expected to be 15 years, he would be in favor of removing the window from the
plan. He didn't think it would look right being covered over. Kist said the HPC
should not just think about how it would look now, but how it will look in the
future, if the tenants leave. Simons believed the window would not be serving a
function and it would be all right to leave it out. Adams was in favor of removing
it from the plan because it might look worse being covered over than not having
the window.
MOTION: Adams moved, seconded by Weeks, to remove the window in the
preparation area from the plans being reviewed on May 20, 2002. Motion
carried 5-0.
Fireplace
Gertz said Molly Gilbertson wanted the HPC to discuss the possibility of having a
fireplace. At the last HPC meeting she showed a plan that had a fireplace at the
east end of the dining area. It would be framed from floor to ceiling, standing
away from the wall. No existing material would be removed. Gertz asked the
HPC to discuss if it should be a heating stove instead. Gilbertson believes a
fireplace would be of more interest to the clientele, and Dunn Brothers would
HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES
May 20, 2002
Page 3
prefer it. It would be the focal point of the room. However, Gertz said that would
not be the type that would have been used in this house. Adams asked if both
types were not used about the same period, as the Cummins Grill House has a
similar fireplace to the one proposed. Gertz said a fireplace was built in that
house, but a fireplace never existed in the More House. It would have had a pot-
bellied stove.
Weeks said it would be difficult for the commissioners to decide until they know
more of what Gilbertson has in mind. He couldn't picture upholstered chairs next
to a pot-bellied stove. Adams thought a pot-bellied stove would seem more like
back-room space. A fireplace attracts people.
Simons said if a fireplace was not in that house and would not have been there,
she would have difficulty deciding to put it in the house. Gertz said originally a
stove was probably there because that was the kitchen; however that is not what
has to go back in. There probably was a heating stove afterward. Weeks said he
was surprised Dunn Brothers was allowing them to make the decision about what
to put there. Gertz said they want the HPC to establish a direction and have a
philosophical discussion regarding the restoration approach. MacDonald & Mack
told him this restoration was beginning to stray quite a bit from the way the house
used to look, taking artistic license.
Weeks pointed out they have to consider that the success of this endeavor will
depend on drawing customers to the house, and it has to have a comfortable
environment. He would not enforce strict conformity with pre-existing conditions
of the house if that would be creating an awkward or uncomfortable environment.
However, he would like historic accuracy pushed as far as possible. He wanted to
see drawings and the scale of the fireplace before making a decision. Peterson-
Benike said the rest of the commissioners did see some of that at the last meeting.
She didn't think they should assume the room would be unattractive without a
fireplace,because Gilbertson plans to have historic photographs on the walls, etc.
Kist asked if it would be necessary to use an old pot-bellied stove or if they could
use a new one, and if it would have to be functional. Weeks said the
reproductions look pretty authentic. He would favor a stove-type solution rather
than a fireplace. However, if Dunn Brothers are set on having a comfortable
seating area, they would want a fireplace. Peterson-Benike pointed out it
wouldn't look authentic to have comfortable furniture around a pot-bellied stove.
Adams said she didn't think they should go as far as not having a warm
centerpiece in the room. Dunn Brothers would probably have a problem
accepting the decision if the HPC took away both a fireplace and a heating stove.
She would like to see if Gilbertson could find a pot-bellied stove and furnishings
that fit around it.
Gertz suggested that perhaps Gilbertson could put in a cooking stove and have a
harvest table in the room. Peterson-Benike agreed that if the stove were placed
over to the side of the room it would look all right.
HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES
May 20, 2002
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Gertz said the HPC should not go beyond its responsibility. A fireplace is a
concern as to how it affects the overall fabric of the house. Peterson-Benike said
the HPC can make a statement about that. A fireplace would be an element that is
not original to the house,but it can be done.
Rain Garden
Gertz stated that a rain garden was added to the plan. Rain gardens are a new idea
for Eden Prairie, and the City Engineers suggested this would be a good place to
put one in. A rain garden would serve as a filter for water run-off diverted from
the parking lot. It takes about three years of intensive care to get the plants
established. This will be the City's responsibility under Leslie Stovring.
Landscapes
Gertz has met with the landscape architect. They discussed protecting the root
system of the grapevine that covers the arbor. This vine is about 100 years old.
As many existing trees as possible will be preserved, but one large tree will be
lost because of sewer work. The City forester will be asked to look at a large ash
tree in the center of lawn because there are many ants in it. Commissioners
received a list of proposed plantings for the property. Dunn Brothers prefers to
light the outdoor sign only from below. The parking area has been widened to
meet City code. The septic system will be filled and abandoned. A sewer line
will be run from the house and connected to the City's system.
Weeks said he would like to know about the plans for lighting in the patio seating
area. Gertz said he would discuss that with the architects.
If the Dunn Brothers lot were full, Weeks thought it likely people would park in
the funeral home parking lot and walking across the lawn. Gertz said David
Lindahl talked to the director of the funeral home and he asked about having a
link between the two parking lots so people won't walk on the lawn.
MOTION: Adams moved, seconded by Simons, to approve the site plan of
MacDonald & Mack Architects Ltd. and Close Associates Inc., for the Smith-
Douglas-More House, as presented on May 20, 2002, pending discussion on the
patio seating area lighting and a pedestrian connection to the Huber Funeral Home
parking lot. Motion carried 5-0.
Simons was excused at 8:30 p.m. from the meeting.
B. Dorenkemper House and Riley-Jacques Site Alteration Permit
Gertz reported that at its May 21 meeting the City Council will review the
recommendation from the HPC to approve the Riley-Jacques farm Heritage
Preservation Site Alteration Permit. When that is done, Gertz said he would be in
touch with Dan Herbst, who will then move the house to the selected site and do
the log-restoration work that he hopes will be done by this fall. Gertz said he
HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES
May 20, 2002
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would meet with the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission again
to discuss use of the property.
Adams recommended forming a small group from the HPC, the Parks
Commission, and the Historical Society to develop ideas for a comprehensive
plan for the entire Riley-Jacques property. Peterson-Benike said determining the
use of the property is the main item now under consideration, and then
programming will follow once that is determined. Because of its historic value,
the HPC has the final authority to determine its use. Gertz said the Parks
Commission has the responsibility to establish programming and would expect
the HPC to give them programming ideas.
VI. NEW BUSINESS
A. City Code Amendment to Include Conditional Use Permits for Historic
Properties
Gertz said the City looked at different ways of changing the More House to a
commercial use. It was decided to change the City Code and allow Conditional
Use Permits to be used so the City can control the use and, in terms of historic
property, what happens to it. The HPC would automatically be included in the
review of any Conditional Use Permits affecting designated historic property.
This impacts what the HPC does with regard to those properties and also impacts
the owners of those properties. The amendment to the City Code was reviewed
by the Planning Board at a meeting that Gertz and the City Attorney attended.
Gertz said the City Council would be asked to approve it on May 21.
The HPC reviewed copies of the Conditional Use Permit (CUP). Kist asked for
the difference between a three-year CUP and Dunn Brothers' 15-year lease.
Gertz replied the CUP simply allows Dunn Brothers to use the property in a
certain way, and they would have to reapply every three years for a CUP.
However, this will be changed to five years by the City Council. Kist asked if
there should be differences of opinion between the City and those reapplying,
could the City refuse to grant them a CUP after five years? Gertz said that if they
were in violation of conditions under which the permit was originally issued, the
City could decide not to reissue the permit. That is the control the City wants to
have. Kist wondered if this could be a hindrance to property owners. Gertz said
no, because it allows the owner of a historic property to do something different
for their property outside of zoning restrictions. This could be a tool for
preservation of historic buildings.
Peterson-Benike said there would be the opportunity at the May 21 meeting of the
Council for neighbors of the Smith House to object to issuing the CUP.
Weeks noted that the section in the amendment under B. 1. Historic Properties
infers all historic properties are old, because applicants must demonstrate a need
for the CUP based on its age. Weeks said there could be newer properties
designated as historic that wouldn't need a lot of restoration. Gertz replied there
HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES
May 20, 2002
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has to be a designated need to preserve the building because of its historic
characteristics. They don't want anyone with an old building that is not historic
to apply for a CUP under this section. People might say they couldn't maintain a
property unless they put it to a different use. They have to say there is an
economic need to get a CUP.
Peterson-Benike said this amendment is well written. It is both specific enough
and general enough to cover whatever circumstance may come up about historic
properties.
Gertz said when he was talking with the City Attorney about this amendment, the
question of amending the Historic Properties portion of the City Code was
discussed. Without an amendment, if the owner of a historic property wants to
make some minor changes on the property, the City would have to send him or
her through the whole review process to get approval to make any changes. Staff
didn't believe the City Council would want to have a public hearing to approve
minor work. Major work would be something that modifies or alters the
appearance of the whole property. Minor changes could be brought to the HPC
for review and approval instead. Also, there is no means provided to de-list a
designated historic property. Gertz said he would bring this information to the
June meeting of the HPC.
B. National Alliance of Preservation Commissions (NAPCO) Forum
Scholarships, San Antonio, Texas on August 1-4, 2002
Information about this forum was distributed to the commissioners. Peterson-
Benike said there is a forum every two years. SHPO has some full scholarships
available. As a representative of the HPC, she planned to apply for one. If other
commissioners were interested in applying, she needed to know by the end of the
week. After attending the forum on a scholarship, they would be expected to
write up a report that will be given to those who attend the Historic Preservation
Conference in September.
Gertz said that, although he has never been to one of the forums, he has been told
by others who have that there is nothing better for HPC training.
C. Riley-Jacques Barn Rehabilitation Planning
Gertz said some work has to be done on the barn's exterior. He will use some of
the funding available to develop a plan and work with an architect who knows
how to rehabilitate historic buildings. Gertz thought it would be a good idea to
have a small group brainstorm for ideas on how to use the barn. He asked for
suggestions on who should be in this group. It was decided that the task force
should include members of the HPC and Historical Society, representatives from
the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission, the present director of
the community theater, and someone from the school district. Peterson-Benike,
Adams and Kist expressed interest in representing the HPC.
HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES
May 20, 2002
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Peterson-Benike said she would contact the Historical Society and find out if
anyone is interested in serving on this task force. Kist said she would ask school
district coordinators to suggest people who would be interested. At the first
meeting they should determine what the function of the group would be. The
brainstorming sessions will be held before bringing in the architect.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Adams moved, seconded by Kist, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried
4-0. Peterson-Benike adjourned the meeting at 9:35 p.m.