HomeMy WebLinkAboutHeritage Preservation - 08/21/2006 APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MONDAY,AUGUST 21, 2006 7:00 P. M.
Prairie Rooms A & B
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Betsy Adams, Chairperson; Richard Akerlund,
Bob Amell,Ann Higgins, Ed Muehlberg,Jane
Plaza. Nina Mackay was absent.
COMMISSION STAFF: John Gertz, Historic Preservation Specialist;
Deb Sweeney, Recorder.
FRIENSHIP VENTURES: Friendship Ventures staff President and CEO
Georgann Rumsey; Staff Ed Strake, Board
Member Greg Johnson, and Landscape
Architect Don Obernolte.
I. ROLL CALL
Adams called the meeting to order at 7:02 p.m.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Adams moved the discussion with Friendship Ventures to the top of the agenda after
routine business.
MOTION: Higgins moved, seconded by Muehlberg, to approve the agenda as published
and amended. Motion carried 6-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —July 17, 2006
MOTION: Higgins moved, seconded by Plaza, to approve the minutes of the Heritage
Preservation Commission meeting held July 17, 2006 as published. Motion carried 6-0.
IV. OLD BUSINESS
1. Glen Lake Children's Camp
Friendship Ventures President and CEO Georgann Rumsey, Staff Ed Strake,
Board Member Greg Johnson, and Landscape Architect Don Obernolte presented
changes to the approved plans for the Commission's approval. Strake said there
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are several changes, with the window issue being the most essential to resolve
quickly. There are four objectives driving the changes:
➢ Safety, to conform with fire codes and provide safe entry and exits.
➢ Increased energy costs, which make energy efficiency more critical.
➢ Reduced maintenance costs to safeguard the agency's funds for programs.
➢ Accessibility at a leadership level, to make accessible entrances an integral
part of the structure, not an add-on.
The current plan is not energy efficient and also poses some safety issues and
maintenance cost issues. Strake said Friendship Ventures seeks to make five
changes to the approved plans:
➢ Add a full basement under the old dining hall. The additional depth
under the building would allow machines to be used for the excavation,
which would be more efficient than hand-excavating a shallower space for
mechanicals. A full basement would also provide an emergency storm
shelter and could accommodate the displaced health center. Access points
to the basement have not yet been determined.
➢ Fill the full wall cavity with insulation. The original proposal called for
partial filling of the wall cavity (2") with tongue and groove paneling.
This would not be adequate for energy efficiency.
➢ Drop and insulate the dining hall ceiling. The original proposal called
for tear-off of the roof, which is only six or seven years old. The new
proposal would be to keep the existing roof,but put in a scissor-like truss
to drop the ceiling so that insulation can be added.
➢ Eliminate glass in partitions between dorm rooms. Glass was proposed
at the top of the dorm room walls to help show how the area looked as a
dorm. However, glass in the dividing walls presents a privacy issue,
especially with bunk beds in the rooms. Walls between rooms would be
solid to the ceiling. The front panel would remain as planned, with 8 feet
of solid wall topped by glass.
➢ Use modern replacement windows. It is very difficult to justify using
the old windows when they were never designed for winter conditions.
The windows are the biggest issue that needs resolution.
Strake said most of these changes are reversible, except for the basement/
foundation. The goal is to promote safety and save money for the organization's
mission.
Adams cautioned Friendship Ventures not to expect immediate approval. The
changes were not received prior to the meeting, and many come as a surprise.
The Commission has already rushed through requests and compromised on doors,
walls and insulation at the last meeting. This additional layer of requests requires
deliberation. It may take until the next meeting to decide.
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Strake said the window issue was supposed to be resolved by City Staff after the
March meeting, but there was no action for six to seven months. Friendship
Ventures did not know where to turn to find any alternative but a new window.
Adams noted that Friendship Ventures' SHPO grant requires them to show due
diligence in investigating ways to retain or re-use the historic windows. It is not a
Commission-placed stumbling block. Gertz said he took the initiative to contact
Miller Dunwoody after Friendship Ventures failed to move on the windows, and
an alternative was brought to Friendship Ventures for re-using the historic
windows.
Gertz asked the cost of the new windows. Strake said they would cost$1,300
each for the entire window. Gertz said the proposed replacement windows meet
the Secretary of the Interior's standards in terms of style, materials, and
dimension. Adams acknowledged that now that due diligence has been done, the
structure would have to use new windows.
Muehlberg asked about the plan for access to the proposed basement. Strake
referenced a drawing by architect Stuart Bailey, showing steps and a lakeside
corner entry. Friendship Ventures did not like that plan, preferring an access on
the same side as the fireplace plus the lakeside entrance. The ideal spot would be
where the front steps are,but that would alter the appearance of the building
significantly. The entries would be ramps with a retaining wall. However,
Obernolte said there is no site plan or detail yet on where the ramps would be
located. Johnson said the elevation would be the same, only on the "back"
fireplace side. It would resemble a walkout. Muehlberg asked if the foundation
would then be visible. Obernothe said they would bring batten boards over. They
could also maintain an earth area for softer landscaping if that would be more
appealing. Akerlund asked about a drainage plan for the bottom of the ramp.
Obernolte said a mechanical drain would be needed to bring water back to the
hydrants or under the foundation to the lake side. A gravity flow system would be
preferred. Akerlund asked if egress windows would be required. Rumsey said
they are not required, since the area would not be used for sleeping and two full
exits are already provided.
Gertz asked about how the foundation would be handled. Originally the
dormitory foundation was supposed to made with piers to match the original, but
instead a block veneer is slated to be added later. Strake said the dining hall
foundation would be handled the same way: a poured foundation with block
veneers. Gertz said the veneer would work to achieve the necessary profile.
Adams emphasized the key is to pay attention to exterior details: size, shape,
profile, and fenestration. Strake said all windows and doors would be put back in
as they were. Johnson noted it is hard to replicate the original doors with panic
bars.
Higgins asked for more detail on the machine excavation and its impact on the
site. Obernothe said the dormitory was only excavated to the frost line. Any
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digging done under the building itself was hand-done to create hollows for the
mechanicals. There was some collapsing of the piers. The proposal on the dining
hall is to create a full basement with the same profile as the building. The
additional clearance would allow a Bobcat or skid loader to go under the building.
Equipment users would target the north end and shuttle in and out from there to
the open area to minimize impact on the lawn and trees. Adams asked if they
would excavate a ramp down to the basement, and Akerlund clarified it would be
like a tucked-under garage. Higgins asked about impacts on the main entrance.
Obernothe said the steps would be removed and the structure would not be used
during the process as it will be up on jacks and pilings. Rumsey said building use
will be monitored from September to May,but some programs will be displaced.
Strake said significant structural issues have caused delay. For example, dry rot
in the bathrooms required rebuilding an entire corner.
Higgins asked if further examination of the subsurface was needed before going
ahead with the basement, especially since there was some collapse of the piers in
the dormitory excavation. Obernothe said the collapse was due to lack of mortar,
not soil conditions. The whole crawl space under the dormitory was common
granular material, as was the soil under the deck constructed on the lake side of
the dining hall last year, so it seems likely the soil will be similar. A structural
engineer and building officials will monitor the soil conditions.
Adams asked about the new insulation plan for the exterior walls. Strake said the
difference is the addition of gypsum sheathing and Tyvek to create a vapor barrier
on the exterior. Originally, the plan was to do nothing. Now, the siding will be
removed, the sheathing and Tyvek installed, and the siding put back on (or
replaced where in poor condition). Gertz noted the firewall is also new. Strake
said the union recommended the firewall due to the presence of persons with
disabilities in the building and the flammability of 80-year-old dry wood. The
firewall would help prevent fire from spreading quickly to enhance safety.
Rumsey said the decision to add the vapor barrier was driven by the Health
Department's concerns about mold. Adams asked where the firewall would be.
Rumsey said it separates the sleeping area from the great room. A wall was
already planned for that spot—it would just be a little thicker to accommodate
fireboard gypsum. Even with a sprinkler system, the building is vulnerable.
Obernothe said it would be important to monitor the process as the masons lay the
veneer block, to make sure the siding comes out far enough to cover the pier and
make sure no insulation shows. The profile will have to come out. Adams said
the wall should be straight and not jut out where the pier is. Gertz expressed
concerns that the skirt board wrapped around the foundation would be beyond the
siding profile—wouldn't the wrap come off? Strake said the foam form would
remain on the outside of the foundation. The batten boards will go on top to
create a dark appearance. Otherwise, you'd see Styrofoam. Gertz asked if a drip
cap would be needed. The insulation over the concrete makes the foundation jut
out an inch from the siding. Building out the siding to match will change the
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depth of all the window and door jambs. Onernothe confirmed the jamb depths
would change. Adams confirmed there would still be a lattice and a straight wall.
Akerlund said enhancing the integrity of the exterior is important.
Higgins asked for more details on the roof insulation. Strake explained that
exposed studs are visible in the dining hall now. The plan is to bring down the
ceiling 8-12 inches and put in scissors-like trusses. The new roofline inside
would be lower,but this is needed to insulate the roof. They could put in false
trusses to simulate the current look. Gertz commented the current construction is
not really a truss but rafter boards with a cross tie. Obernathe confirmed this and
said the simulated rafter boards could be installed. Adams asked if that was worth
doing—it might be an unnecessary expense. Gertz said putting in fake boards
would be misleading and it would be better not to try to mimic. The piers are
already being mimicked and mimicking shouldn't be taken too far. The exterior
and the setting of the property are more important to maintain than the interior.
The historical material is not being lost, only buried. Akerlund said false rafter
boards could always be added later.
Gertz said he was disappointed the poured foundation is not meeting the siding
profile. He had assumed the foam would be removed above grade. Leaving it on
alters the profile. Akerlund said the foam is an integral part of the wall. Adams
asked about the plan to insulate the entire cavity between walls. The original plan
to partially fill had drawn praise from historic preservationists. Strake said there
was a big jump in energy costs vs. four years ago that drove the change. Adams
asked for clarification—would the new wall change the window and door frames?
Johnson said there would be a 5-6" casing, a pretty deep windowsill vs. none
now. Gertz said the new wall creates a need to trim out windows to insulate
around and cover them. There were no window casings before, so this is a
significant change in the detailing. Adams said a rendering of the new window
and new wall would be helpful, and Strake said the architect could easily provide
one.
Gertz noted the next HPC meeting would be September 18. He requested a
rendering incorporating all the changes: insulation, firewall, and exterior
fagadein a single piece, to be forwarded to the Commission by September 10.
He requested that any proposed changes for accessibility, trail work, or links
between buildings be incorporated as well. Strake noted the union trades are
volunteering some of their time and anxious to continue. He asked if work could
continue on unrelated issues, such as excavating the basement and jacking up the
building. Gertz cautioned that the building is fragile and moving it would not be a
good plan. Akerlund asked the timetable for pouring. Strake said it would be
done as soon as they could get the building up. The windows create a time
concern because they have a four-week turnaround time. Adams asked if
beginning on the foundation would be acceptable. Gertz said building inspections
and Planning Commission approvals would push the date out a couple of weeks
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anyhow. It would be better to have final plans in hand before pouring to see
where the ramps and egress will be and how they will affect the exterior.
Strake asked if dismantling the fireplace and rebuilding it with historic mortar
could be done—this was part of the original plan and there have been no changes.
The new fireplace would be functional which is not the case now. Gertz said to
go ahead with the fireplace after City review is complete. However,punching
through the historic floor to create basement access could be an issue. Strake said
there would be no interior access to the basement. A stairway is not accessible
and an elevator is too expensive and no good in a fire. There will be two
accessible entrance/exit points from the basement to the outside.
Gertz asked whether the north end would be considered the main entrance.
Rumsey said her understanding was that the stairway was historic. Friendship
Ventures would like to put an accessible entrance there,but the look has to be
maintained. The lake side and the north wing would provide alternate accessible
entrances. Strake said the goal is to make the ramps a natural part of the
landscape and to use the same entrances for everybody. Rumsey explained the
basement idea is new, so they are still trying to figure out the best access points.
Johnson asked for input on where the basement entrances should or should not be.
Gertz said the guiding principle is to make the changes as unobtrusive as possible.
Minimize visually so the new features are not competing for attention, and avoid
unnecessarily modern features and materials. Adams asked if having the
basement and ground floor ramps in the same area would work to minimize the
visual impact. Obernothe said it would make sense to do that. The proposed area
is also near the water main and so has already been disturbed. Akerlund and
Amell said the City's process should help determine the best spot for the
entrances. Gertz said the site would dictate the most practical spot. The key from
a preservation standpoint is to be sensitive to view lines. For example, the north
end right in the corner would not be a good spot.
Johnson asked for approval on the windows, or to get a timeline. Adams said she
hoped to approve the windows at the next meeting. Johnson said this would be a
setback. Adams noted the Commission just learned the walls, sills and frames
would all be different. Gertz clarified the openings would be the same and would
look the same on the outside. Only the depth has changed. Gertz said the
Commission could act on the windows tonight and conduct a complete review of
the other items at the September 18"' meeting, with comprehensive building and
site plans in hand. Higgins asked whether the windows could even be ordered
before the depth of the wall and the sills is known. Johnson said the manufacturer
could begin making the windows and wait on the casements, which would be
helpful progress.
Adams suggested approving ordering the windows now and approving the rest of
the interior, exterior and landscape work at the next meeting. Gertz stipulated that
the windows must fit the historic openings and that the historic windows should
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be numbered and stored on site. The Marvin windows meet the proper standards.
Strake said the windows would be crated to prevent warp, numbered, and stored
in a dry area, most likely underneath the dormitory. Plaza asked if one historic
window would be left installed as a sample. Adams said this is not needed. It is
not a touring facility and photos and the actual windows will preserve the
historical record.
MOTION: Plaza moved, seconded by Amell, to accept the proposal from
Friendship Ventures for replacement windows that meet the Secretary of
Interior's standards, as provided by Marvin Windows, with the conditions that the
historic windows are removed, numbered and put into on-site storage, and that
historic openings are maintained and not altered. Motion carried 6-0.
Friendship Ventures staff thanked the Commission and exited the meeting.
Plaza asked who would be inspecting the work, and what recourse is available if
there are "surprises" or changes to the building or landscape plan. Gertz said the
state historical architect visited last week. The camp is leased on City property so
there should be review and approval of all changes. In addition, anything grant-
funded needs SHPO approval. Typically SHPO has a letter of agreement when
giving capital that requires all changes to come before SHPO for a period of
years. Friendship Ventures failed to do that when they built their trails and
bridges. The site is part of the historic registry too, not just the buildings. SHPO
has the power to demand compliance or deny reimbursement. Adams asked if
Friendship Ventures needed more education on the subject of landscaping
changes. Gertz said he had already discussed this with Obernothe and also
emphasized the need not to make snap decisions to change things on site. Getting
the updated plan at the next meeting will help. The master plan is very out of date.
Adams commented there are still many steps to go.
2. FY 2005 CLG Grant
Gertz asked Commission members to take and read through the grants and
nominations and submit comments by the end of the week. Regarding Glen Lake
Children's Camp, Gertz noted the altered trails have drawn attention and that a
whole-site focus is needed. The use of the camp is actually very similar to its
original purpose. Gertz asked Commission members to focus on the treatment
plan for each property. All changes would be incorporated, digital photos and
location information would be attached, and a revised packet would be presented
for approval on September 18"' with changes highlighted. From there, the process
continues with SHPO and finally the City Council. Higgins asked when the City
Council would take up the matter, and Gertz said it would probably be late this
year, since SHPO must act and the Historic Preservation Commission needs to
hold a Public Hearing. Plaza noted an edit on page 3 for the item on Glen Lake
Children's Camp, changing Highway 64 to Highway 62.
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Akerlund asked if it would make sense to have the Glen Lake portion of the
meeting on site. Adams said this takes too much time and the site would likely be
dark. Gertz encouraged Commission members to visit the site individually as
Friendship Ventures is very accommodating. Going in groups violates the open
meeting law, however. The camping season is over so it is an easier time to visit.
V. Reports of Commission and Staff
1. Preservation Conference Registration
Gertz said the City approved sending up to five people to the historic preservation
conference in Red Wing, with funds to cover conference registration and driving
expenses. Adams said she would attend and would submit receipts. Higgins said
she was going, and Plaza said she would attend on Thursday only. Gertz said he
would handle Higgins and Plaza's registrations and see if funds could be used for
hotel as well since only three are attending.
2. Smith Douglas More House Sisn
Gertz asked Commission members to review the historical sign to be placed
outside the Smith Douglas Moore House. The sign will be three feet by four feet
and was designed by City Staff. Gertz said he would inquire about the font size
since the sign has more copy and larger photos than many of the others. Adams
suggested adding the EP Heritage Site logo to the sign.
3. Cummins Grill House SHPO Status
Gertz asked Commission members to review his update. The key issue at present
is design of the parking lot north of the property, especially since the impact of
the Pioneer Trail construction on the south side will be significant. Higgins noted
an article in the Eden Prairie News referenced the prospect of some adaptive re-
use of the building. Adams said the City is pushing this idea and entertaining
inquiries,but no proposal is on the table. The road construction may slow the
process. Gertz said it is hard to plan parking without knowing the use. For
example, a coffee shop would need a lot more parking than a historical society. A
re-use study is due in about a month and should provide useful information.
4. 2007 National Trust Convention
Adams noted the 2007 National Trust Convention would be held in St. Paul. A
planning group is assembling to exchange ideas for providing tours and
highlighting Minnesota's heritage. There is no obligation to commit to anything
specific. Adams said she would attend. Reservations are due by August 30"' for
the meeting, and the conference will be held October 2-6. Gertz said the
conference would provide good coverage for historic preservation.
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5. Lost Towns
Higgins shared an interesting Star Tribune article on "Lost Towns" that are no
longer incorporated, but can be found on the Easy Finder map.
VI. NEW BUSINESS
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Akerlund moved, seconded by Higgins, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 6-0.
The meeting adjourned at 9:35 p.m.