HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 10/06/2003 APPROVED MINUTES
PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2003 7:00 P.M.
City Center
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Rob Barrett, Chair; Jeffrey Gerst, Vice Chair; John
Brill, Tom Crain, Randy Jacobus, Ian Mackay,
Michael Moriarity and Bruce Schaepe
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: David Larson
COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation
Services; Stu Fox, Manager of Natural Resources;
Laurie Obiazor, Manager of Recreation Services;
and Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Rachel Giertz and Cole Johnson
I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order by Chair Barrett at 7:00 p.m. Michael Moriarity was introduced
as the new Commission member replacing Trisha Swanson who moved from the City. The
student members introduced themselves.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Barrett asked that an update on Hockey Site Dog Off-Leash Parks be added to the agenda under
Reports of Staff. Lambert asked that a request by the High School Cross-Country Ski Club be
added under Petitions, Requests and Communication.
Motion: Schaepe moved, Gerst seconded, to approve the agenda as amended. The motion
carried, 8-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —August 4, 2003
Motion: Motion was made by Schaepe, seconded by Mackay, to approve the August 4, 2003,
minutes as published. The motion carried, 7-0-1 with Moriarity abstaining because he was not in
attendance at that meeting.
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATION
A. Birch Island Woods Conservation Area
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Jeff Strate, organizer of the Friends of Birch Island Woods, explained that he submitted a
petition regarding 4.04 acres of a privately owned portion of Birch Island Woods. This parcel
is co-owned by a number of people and half of those owners want to preserve it and have it
be part of the conservation area while the other half want to sell it to a developer. The
Friends of Birch Island Woods feel that it should be part of the Birch Island Woods
conservation area. If this property were built on, it would fragment the woods and
compromise the recreational value of the area. It is necessary for them to act on this property
more quickly than they wanted to. Strate explained that they are recommending that this
Commission recommend to the City Council that they identify methods of acquiring and
financing the expansion of the Birch Island Woods Conservation Area with a 4.04 acre,
privately owned parcel on the north side of Birch Island Road, and identify elements of a
possible use easement or conservation easement on the same privately owned parcel north of
Birch Island Road and identify the process of implementing such easements including
compensation by the landowners and financing that compensation and to identify related
issues. Strate pointed out that at least 20 percent of the total purchase price of the four acres
needs to be included in a Parks and Recreation bonding referendum to be held this spring.
The 20 percent would qualify the City to apply for matching grants from the State and other
sources to help buy the woods.
In response to a question from Barrett, Strate explained that the City acquired almost 32
acres from Hennepin County and that land is now a conservation area. Jacobus asked if this
is the property that was discussed as being used as a parking lot. Strate explained that the
City Task Force decided that the best place to have a parking lot would be by Indian Chief
Road,however, if the City is able to acquire the Picha parcel, that site might in fact be a
better place to have the parking lot.
Moriarity asked what the timeline is for the purchase of the Picha property. He questioned if
they would have time to put the question on the referendum. Strate responded that the
brothers are willing to sell the property to the City so that it can become part of the
conservation area. However, they cannot speak for the other half of the family. Brill asked
how something like this would be negotiated. Lambert explained that they would have to
negotiate with the family members that own the property. They would probably try to get a
six-month option, or for however long they could, and then apply for a grant. They would
like a guarantee that the land will not be sold in the meantime. The City would have to get an
appraisal and the negotiated price would be based on that appraisal. Lambert said they do
have to move quickly and they need to determine what the residents might support for the
City acquiring additional land. Jacobus pointed out that at last month's meeting the Friends
of Birch Island Woods mentioned that they could potentially come up with some money.
Strate said they would attempt to raise grant money from the private sector.
Mackay asked what it would cost the City to go through this process. Lambert said the
appraisal would probably cost between $1,000 and $1,500. Strate pointed out that acquiring
parcels along Purgatory Creek are very important. Lambert said that by the end of the year
they should have the results of the City survey that will give them an indication of which
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items the citizens would or would not support. Jacobus asked if the Commission would not
act on this item, would it be on the referendum. Lambert explained that this is just one of the
steps that needs to be taken to get this item on a referendum.
Motion: Gerst moved, seconded by Brill, to recommend the City Council identify options for
acquiring and financing the expansion of Birch Island Woods Conservation Area with a four-
acre privately owned parcel on the north side of Birch Island Road including preservation of
that parcel or purchasing a conservation easement on the property that would prevent
development of the parcel.
An unidentified member of the audience questioned the traffic situation in this area. He
explained that he lives on Kurtz Lane boarding this area and they have a major problem with
people coming through their neighborhood at high rates of speed. If this area is developed,
people will be using this street as a short cut to Highway 4. They already have a traffic
problem and he wondered how this proposal would affect their situation. Lambert said he did
not feel that an additional eight to ten houses would make much of a difference on traffic.
Changes to the road system will happen sooner or later no matter what. The gentleman from
the audience said he has a difficult time from keeping the vehicles out of his front yard. He
said the City needs to do a traffic change, add stop signs or something to slow the traffic
down before someone is killed. Lambert pointed out that the traffic issue has nothing to do
with the issue being discussed by this Commission this evening. He suggested that they
contact the Police Department. The gentleman said they have talked to the Police and
nothing seems to be done. Lambert explained that before each City Council meeting at 6:50
p.m. the Mayor asks if anyone in the audience would like to discuss and item that is not on
the agenda. He suggested that they bring up this item at that time.
Vote was called on the motion with all members present voting aye. The motion carried, 8-0.
B. Request from Cross Country Ski Club
Lambert reported that the coach from the Eden Prairie Nordic Ski Team has developed a
good cross-country ski trail system within Staring Lake Park and the Hennepin Vocational
Technical School property. A snowmobile and groomer have been donated for maintaining
these trails. This equipment has been stored at the Vocational School but it has been rather
inconvenient to transport this equipment back and forth. The coach is asking for permission
to construct a storage building in the City Park adjacent to the ski trail. Lambert explained
that City staff is supporting this request. Stu Fox displayed a map of the area showing the
location of the proposed building. He explained that essentially this building would be a
garage approximately 20 feet long and 14 feet wide with doors on both ends. The equipment
will be stored in this building during the winter months and during the off-season the
building will be empty. The building will be built at no cost to the City.
Jacobus asked where equipment is stored for mowing the grass and maintaining baseball and
soccer fields. He asked if they were stored on site. Lambert responded that the equipment is
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not stored at the fields but is driven to the various locations. Mackay asked if any special
permits are necessary for construction of this structure. Lambert said they would be required
to obtain a building permit. Jacobus pointed out that there is a cabin on the other side of the
lake and he asked if there would be room to store this equipment there. Lambert responded
that there is not room and they have asked for expansion for storage of kayaks.
Motion: Motion was made by Barrett, seconded by Mackay and all members present voting
aye, to recommend that the City Council allow the Eden Prairie Nordic Ski Team to build a
storage shed on the requested parcel of land.
V. OLD BUSINESS
A. Flyins! Cloud Ballfields—Revised Plan
Lambert reported that earlier this year the Commission and the City Council approved the
concept plan for the expansion of Flying Cloud Ballfields. About six weeks ago the
Metropolitan Airports Commission rejected this plan because a portion of the outfield
infringes on the runway protection zone. The revised plan does not have any impact on the
proposed soccer/football fields, but does reduce the original number of proposed parking
places for this expansion and requires a much tighter fit between the two baseball fields. The
revised plan still provides over 1.5 times the number of parking places required by the City's
Park and Open Spaces standards and City staff have met with representatives from the
Baseball Association to review changes to the baseball complex. Fox reviewed with the
Commission the proposed changes to the original plan.
Lambert further explained that the estimated cost for this project is $1.3 million. Staff is
proposing that this be considered as an item to be placed on the referendum. This may not be
high on the list for most residents but they have not done a whole lot of education on
ballfield needs. Mackay asked for a copy of the 2001 City sponsored citizen's satisfaction
survey. Moriarity suggested that it might be helpful to list these fields as multiple use fields
rather than soccer or baseball fields. They may get more buy in if they are fields that can be
used for things other than just soccer. Brill asked if drainage of these fields would be a
problem. Fox responded that the drainage has been looked at. These fields are close to the
flight path and they would basically be dry ponds. They will hold water for a matter of hours
but would basically drain through. MAC does not want water in these fields because it would
bring ducks and geese to the area, which they do not want.
Brill asked if people would be parking in the Grace Church parking lot. Lambert explained
that there is more than adequate parking for these facilities. If anything, Grace Church may
be using the City's parking lot on Sunday mornings. Schaepe asked if the $1.2 million is for
development only or if it includes acquisition costs to be able to use this site. Lambert
explained that the agreement the City has with MAC is that they would allow the City to
utilize this property for recreational use. They have a 90-day lease. MAC's 20-year
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expansion plan does not show any expansion in this area. Lambert pointed out that the City
pays about$550 a year for rent of 30 acres and this would be increased with this land.
Motion: Motion was made by Jacobus, seconded by Mackay, to approve the revised plan for
the expansion of Flying Cloud Ballfields.
Mackay asked if there is any issue with the storage of goals and other equipment. Fox said
that the goals do stay up most of the time right now. They do have storage facilities at the old
Flying Cloud drive-in site but that is used for the storage of wood chips, gravel, etc.
Vote was called on the motion with all members voting aye, except Moriarity who abstained.
The motion carried, 7-0-1.
B. Review Draft City Survey
Lambert introduced representatives from MarketLine Research who was hired to assist City
staff in developing a survey instrument that would provide the City with a strong indication
of what park improvements would be supported by residents in a referendum. The company
helped develop a survey instrument that will be used for random telephone calling. Staff is
asking the Commission to review the language in this draft survey and the City Council will
also be asked to approve the language at their meeting tomorrow evening. Lambert explained
that the first set of questions relates to what the people support or don't support and he
briefly reviewed the survey questions with the Commission. Lambert further explained that it
is hoped that when the results of the survey are received staff will be able to determine which
items should be placed on the referendum.
Moriarity pointed out that there are a number of items covered in this survey. He asked the
student representatives, as teenagers, if there is anything they feel is missing from this
survey. Giertz said she thinks an outdoor water park would be beneficial to the teenagers.
Moriarity pointed out that Question#18 does deal with an outdoor pool and he asked Giertz
if she feels this is addressed adequately. She responded that she feels it is. Johnson said he
feels the survey is pretty complete. A water park would be very beneficial to the younger
kids. Johnson said he would like to see ultimate Frisbee fields. They now use soccer fields or
multi-use fields. Moriarity pointed out that one of the questions did talk about a teen center.
Giertz said she is a member of SoulFire and their purpose was to build a teen center. They
have not been able to come up with the necessary funds but are still working on it. They do
have grants and have been raising money through various activities and their ultimate goal is
to build a teen center in Eden Prairie.
Gerst pointed out that last year this Commission made a recommendation to the City Council
to look at possibly acquiring the old Hennepin County library building. He asked what the
status of that was. Lambert responded that the City Council did not take any action on this
item. There was discussion of using this facility for an art center but before they can design
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an art center they need to decide what kind of art center they want. The library building is an
expensive building to do something like that. Gerst said he would be in favor of that but he
would like to see the money go towards an outdoor pool or to the Community Center.
Lambert explained that once Hennepin County has determined this site is surplus property,
they would notify the City and give them the opportunity to acquire it at its appraised value
prior to offering it to other parties.
Jacobus asked if the 2001 citizen satisfaction survey was as in-depth as this one. Lambert
responded that it was not. That survey was much more general while this one is more
specific. Since the 2001 survey, the economy has changed tremendously. Jacobus asked if
the representatives making the calls were going to be educated on the topics. Will they know
what a wave pool is? Jacobus said he didn't know how they could get the results they want
unless the people doing the survey are able to explain what some of these items are. Jacobus
said he feels the survey would be much more useful if the people doing the survey could
explain it. Lambert indicated that the callers should have some basic information and they all
should have the same basic information. The survey is to get the opinions of the people for
that day. The MarketLine Research representative said he agreed that it is important that the
callers have some basic information and that they all give the same information to the people
they are calling. Also, there will always be some people who refuse to participate in the
survey. Jacobus said he feels the introduction paragraph contains too little information. The
MarketLine representative indicated that this paragraph could be modified. Something very
similar to this was done for Hennepin County and the City of Minneapolis and they did not
lose people.
Barrett said he feels this is a very intensive study. However, the people conducting the
survey and the people answering the survey can't know everything. He said he feels the
survey should be simpler. Lambert suggested that they not list the parks by name but rather
use the term neighborhood parks. It may be better to get general funding for general park
improvements. Barrett said that when it does come time for the referendum there would be
newspaper articles with more information on the proposed improvements. Lambert said it is
the City's responsibility to educate the public, not to convince them how to vote. Lambert
said these are good suggestions and they will revise the survey so that it isn't so specific.
Crain indicated that when these questions are asked they don't have a clue as to what the cost
of the projects are going to be. Are they talking about$1,000 or$100,000? He said this
would make a big difference to him. Lambert responded that they do not want to give an
estimate of costs at this point. For example, if they list a cost for property they are proposing
to acquire and there is no appraisal or offer for purchase of the property, they would probably
have to pay what they estimated the cost to be. Basically, this survey is to determine whether
or not the City should purchase additional land.
Schaepe pointed out that in the 2000/01 survey one of the top items talked about was
improving water quality. He said there are no questions in this survey that addresses this
issue. Lambert explained that the City does have a water quality management plan put in
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place that the residents are assessed for making improvements to the storm water drainage
system. There are funds available for that. Lambert said money is not the main issue on water
quality but rather the issue is how they want to go about improving the water quality. This
proposed survey is more of a public recreation survey that includes items that they may want
to put on a park referendum.
Brill asked what they anticipate as the number of participants for this survey and the
demographics. The MarketLine representative responded that they want 400 completed
interviews and they do not look for specific demographics. It is a random selection. Brill said
that overall,he likes the survey,however,he would like to see it made more vague.
Questions 16 to 21 are complicated questions and when they become that complicated, it is
difficult for the people to answer them. The representative responded that the interviewer
would read each of these options and ask which is more important. The questions will be
taken step by step.
Schaepe asked what the interviewers do when they reach non-English speaking people. The
MarketLine representative said they call multiple times until they find someone in the
household that does speak English. They will not be using interpreters for this survey
because of the additional cost.
Moriarity asked if in terms of improvements to the Community Center, would they be
including a question on the third sheet of ice. Lambert said the third sheet would not be
included on the referendum. When this item was discussed, City funding was never included
in the discussion other than funding from the revenue generated by this project. Moriarity
said if this item were placed on the referendum, the Hockey Association would probably
support it. Lambert said they could certainly add it. Moriarity asked if the water park
improvements would preclude the third sheet of ice. Lambert responded that the third sheet
of ice requested was going to be funded by money raised by the Hockey Association. If this
has changed, it could be added to the referendum. It could be added to Questions #16 f. Third
Sheet of Ice.
Mackay said he agrees that they should look into adding the third sheet of ice to the survey
and to possibly include it on the referendum. He asked why they interview 400 people. The
MarketLine representative said it is a statistical sample. In response to a question from
Mackay, it was explained that they would be using a ten-point scale.
Schaepe pointed out that the last survey showed that the third sheet of ice was the lowest
supported item. Lambert said he feels it will still be ranked lowest. However, they will bring
this item to the City Council to determine whether or not they want to put it on the survey as
suggested.
Barrett pointed out that the survey refers to a Teen Center. This was not something that was
really planned for or included in the Community Center plans. The space suggested was a
multi-purpose room. Moriarity suggested that they call it a multi-use room for youths and
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teens. Barrett stated that Question#18 refers to diving boards. This seems rather unusual to
include since most pools have diving boards. He suggested that it be removed. Brill
explained that it is a diving well, which is different from a diving board.
(Schaepe left the meeting at 8:55 p.m.)
Lambert said they would take the Commission's comments into consideration and provide
them to the City Council. The Council will be reviewing this survey at their meeting on
Tuesday, October 7.
Motion: Motion was made by Moriarity, seconded by Mackay, and all members present
voting aye, to approve the language in Draft#4 of the City Survey with the suggested
changes discussed this evening and further recommend the City Council authorize
proceeding with this survey as soon as possible. The motion carried, 7-0.
VI. NEW BUSINESS
A. Pondins!Requirements within Round Lake Park
Lambert reported that the City has a project starting next spring at the Intersections of CR 4
and Valley View Road widening that intersection and adding two double left turn lanes. In
order to accomplish this intersection improvement and to meet NURP standards, certain
ponding requirements need to be met. In order to accommodate the ponding requirements,
the City would be required to either remove some parking facilities or a ballfield. Staff is
recommending removal of the parking lot west of the fire station and development of a pond
north of the tennis court parking lot on the south side of Valley View Road. The City has
very little choice on location of these ponding sites, as water must run down hill. Fox briefly
reviewed the proposed plan with the Commission.
Barrett questioned how many parking spots would be lost. Fox responded that approximately
60 spaces would be eliminated. Lambert pointed out that there is parking available in the
school lots to the north and west and if a sidewalk is provided to those parking lots and lights
are installed, it would not take long to educate the people to park at those locations. When
major improvements are made, they are required to bring the water treatment up to code.
Jacobus asked if all of this was considered when it was decided to make the intersection
improvements. He said it appears that they are in a position where they can't say no to this
request. The decision to make improvements to the intersection dictates the ponding
requirements. Lambert said that is correct. Eventually Valley View will be four lanes to the
High School entry. This is the first phase. To continue, they need to see what happens with
the expansion of the Community Center. Barrett asked if this project requires City funding.
Lambert said the City would be paying for the road improvements. Fox explained that the
Watershed District would pay for the construction of the ponding.
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Jacobus said he feels this project should wait until they determine what happens with the
Community Center. Lambert responded that construction of this intersection has to happen.
Jacobus suggested that they advise the City Council that if a referendum is held in the near
future and if the referendum has the possibility of including a pool that would require
relocation of this pond, the project should be delayed until after the referendum.
Mackay asked if these ponds would have water in them. Lambert responded that they would
hold water for a certain number of hours and will eventually flow out. Mackay asked if they
would smell and require bug treatment. Lambert explained that they will have to be treated
by mosquito control and the ponds will have to be dredged in the future to keep them
functioning.
Motion: Motion was made by Jacobus, seconded by Mackay, with all members present
voting aye, to approve the proposed concept plan for providing ponding requirements
necessary with the improvements to the Valley View Road/County Road 4 intersection with
the suggestion that the City Council consider delaying this proposal until after the pool
referendum. The motion carried, 7-0.
VII. REPORTS OF STAFF
A. Director of Parks and Recreation Services
1. Mitchell Lake Water Quality
Lambert reported that the Mitchell Lake homeowners have expressed concern for the
water quality of Mitchell Lake. They met with the DNR and City staff and did not like
the recommendations made. The homeowners will continue to see what they can do to
improve the water quality.
2. Shuldhiess Property—Report to Council
Lambert explained that an item regarding the acquisition of the Shuldhiess Property
located at 9281 and 9291 Riley Lake Road did go to the City Council on September 2.
They did not recommend acquisition but tabled the item.
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3. Pinnacle Drive—Land Donation
Lambert reported that the City Council did accept the donation of approximately 1.35
acres of land located east of Baker Road and west of five lots on Pinnacle Drive. This
property is a wooded hillside between Baker Road and the back of the lots on Pinnacle
Drive. The condition of the donation was that the City would file a scenic and
conservation easement over the property that would also restrict any future development
of the property. The property owners wanted to donate this property to the City for
conservation area designation.
4. Hockey Site Dog Off-Leash Parks Update
Lambert reported that the hockey site dog parks are up and running. They have found
them to have very little use. The people using them like them but there are not that many
people using them. Brill explained that he lives near one of these sites and have heard
from the neighborhood that they are fine and it is a good place for them to use. The only
downside is that some of the parents like to use these hockey rinks for their kids to kick
soccer balls around. They now have to go outside of the rink. Lambert pointed out that a
10-acre site at Bryant Lake was approved for the use of an off-leash dog park. Barrett
suggested that they revisit the off-leash dog park item to discuss the City's proposal for
such a park.
B. Manager of Recreation Services
1. eConnect Report
Laurie Obiazor, Manager of Recreation Services, explained that the City did successfully
go online for fall program registrations. The City is providing a variety of methods for
registration of programs. This enables them to reduce administrative costs and eliminates
traffic to the City facilities and long lines.
2. Teen Programs and Events
Obiazor explained that information regarding the teen programs and events was included
in the Commission's agenda material. The City Council did request an update on teen
programming.
3. Helen I. Pontius National Award
Obiazor reported that Sandy Werts, a member of the City staff, was awarded the Helen I.
Pontius National Award of Merit for 2003. Sandy is a very active member of the Women
in Leisure Services group both at the State and National level.
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Mackay asked if anything had been done with regards to naming the senior center. This
Commission had previously discussed this item. Lambert responded that the Senior
Center Board did not support a change at this time. Obiazor explained that they are trying
to diversify the senior center and are looking at a wider variety of programs. This facility
may become a leisure education center or something similar. They did not feel this is the
appropriate time to rename the facility.
C. Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
1. Riley Jacques Farm Remodeling
Fox reviewed the remodeling plans for the Riley Jacques Barn with the Commission.
Giertz asked if the seating located on the second level is permanent. Fox explained that
they could be removed, they are chairs. Mackay asked who would be programming this
facility and if there is a high demand for it. Lambert responded that Parks and Recreation
would handle it and at this time, the public is not aware of it being available.
Barrett asked if this Commission approved this item. Lambert explained that the Heritage
Preservation Commission recommended the restoration of the house and barn to the City
Council. This is a $708,000 project with $50,000 being taken from cash park fees toward
site improvements. This will be a great addition to the park system. The facility will be
used by day camps and will be available for reservations for groups. The barn renovation
was not brought to this Commission for approval because it is not a park. This item did
go through HPC because Parks does not fund it. The item is being presented to this
Commission at this time because $50,000 of park money is being spent for park
improvements relating to this project.
Lambert briefly reviewed with the Commission the historical sites located in the City.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Motion: Mackay moved, Jacobus seconded, to adjourn the meeting. The motion carried 7-0. The
meeting was adjourned at 9:45 p.m.