HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 02/03/2003 APPROVED MINUTES
PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 2003 7:00 P.M.
City Center
Council Chambers
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Munna Yasiri, Chair(arrived at 7:05 p.m.); Rob
Barrett(arrived at 7:05 p.m.), Jeffrey Gerst, David
Larson, Bruce Schaepe, Trisha Swanson, Kim
Teaver (arrived at 7:05 p.m.) and Philip Wright(left
at 9:05 p.m.)
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Dick Brown
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Lauren Astry, Chris Shea and David Westphal
COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation
Services; Stu Fox, Manager of Natural Resources,
Beth DeGree, Aquatics and Fitness Coordinator and
Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary
I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order by Acting Chair Gerst at 7:00 p.m.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Motion: Schaepe moved, Wright seconded, to approve the agenda as published. The motion
carried, 5-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —January 6, 2003
Motion: Larson moved, Schaepe seconded, to approve the January 6, 2003, minutes as
presented. The motion carried, 5-0.
IV. OLD BUSINESS
A. Request for Totlot Improvements at Round Lake Park
Lambert explained that in 2002 the City removed the totlot structure located east of
Atherton Way and west of Round Lake Park as it no longer met City safety guidelines.
Shortly thereafter the City received a petition from a number of residents requesting the
City to either replace the structure or improve the other totlot structure located
approximately 400 yards north of the one that was removed. Lambert further explained that
approximately 800 residents were notified of this meeting asking them to attend to present
their input regarding this issue.
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Fox reviewed with the Commission the various playground equipment options available
and the features of this site. He explained that this playground is located on the southwest
side of Round Lake and is called the Heritage Playground. This equipment was originally
installed in 1983. When a safety audit was completed in 1993, this playground was listed as
the eighth worst out of 29 playgrounds in the City. Based on safety standard criteria, the
playground being discussed would be for ages 5 to 12. In 2002 it was determined without
neighborhood input to remove this playground equipment. City staff felt that new
playground equipment placed at Round Lake could replace this playground since it is
larger and has more exciting equipment. Staff is now recommending replacement of this
park on the west side on a 24 foot by 30 foot area. The park would be age appropriate for 2
to 5 year olds. The City did receive a petition from neighbors requesting that the
playground removed be replaced. Staff is recommending that they use the same location for
the new playground based on neighborhood input. Fox pointed out that the budget
allotment for this new playground is $10,000. They are proposing to double the space to
add a swing component.
Schaepe asked if the $10,000 budget includes labor to remove the old equipment and to put
up the new equipment. Fox responded that the Park Maintenance staff would do the labor.
Yasiri asked if the $10,000 comes from the Parks and Recreation budget or do they need to
look for the money from somewhere else. Lambert explained that the City does budget
$50,000 a year to be used to replace playground equipment. This year approximately
$40,000 will be used at Franlo and $10,000 will be used for this site. They do try to expend
the entire budget on materials,however, it does include money for the base of the
playground which could include a drainage system. Barrett said the current playground is
sand based and he asked if it would remain as sand. Fox answered that they will convert it
to wood fiber. Sand is only good for equipment three-feet in height. Anything above that
would require shredded wood products. Teaver asked if the totlot removed met safety
standards. Fox said a safety audit was done on the equipment. This playground is not
necessarily unsafe but had other problems.
The City is building and spending money on playground equipment geared at much lower
age groups than when they were first installed. Teaver asked how far the current totlot is
from the $120,000 playground area. Fox said it is approximately one-half mile from this
location. Lambert pointed out that the City attempts to have play facilities within a one-half
mile radius of all homes.
Mark Lindner, 7359 Hames Way, explained that his house is located right behind the totlot.
When this playground was constructed, there were no homes in the area. No one in the
neighborhood currently uses this playground. The area now used as a ball field. Lindner
pointed out that there is no parking available and most of its usage is by high school
students. He said he would like to see this playground moved away from the homes. It
would make sense to move it back further where there is some shade rather then out in the
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February 3, 2003
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open sun. As long as the City has to spend money to take up the sand,he suggested they
place it somewhere where it is more convenient for everyone.
Guy Vance, 7383 Hames Way, said he agreed with what Lindner said. He questioned
whether or not this playground is being placed in the correct location to best serve the
community. It is exposed to the hot sun and this does not seem to be the best location for it.
Stacy Morgan, 7323 Hames Way, explained that she is home during the day and the only
people she has seen use this facility is high school students. It is a gathering point for them
and it is not being used by toddlers. The picnic table that was located at this site has been
removed so there is no place for the parents to sit. The streets are also signed for no parking
so people who use the park are not able to park their vehicles on the street. Morgan stated
that with all of the other projects in the City, she said she feels the City could better spend
their money.
Susie Harvey, 7335 Hames Way, said this past summer she cleaned out four vodka bottles
from behind the bushes at this location. This is an issue for the high school and it is a big
problem. Harvey said she has called the Police on several occasions. She does not want to
deprive children of the playground; however, there are very few children that use it. A huge
issue is safety and also whether or not the playground aesthetically fits into the
neighborhood.
Barrett asked why they are proposing to rebuild this playground. Lambert explained that
they received a petition from 70 or 80 people when this playground was taken out asking
that it be replaced. They sent out notices to 800 people, and only eight residents came to
the meeting to voice opposition to the location of this playground.
Lambert asked if the neighbors in attendance have a better recommendation for the location
of this playground. Lindner said there is a huge area on the west side of the lake with a
bench and it is open but yet shaded. It would also be out of the view of the residents. Yasiri
said one of the major issues is the high school kids using this location for illicit activity. If
the playground is moved further out of site, it would only encourage more such activity.
Westphal said he personally doesn't think location would deter or encourage the high
school students from using this site as a gathering spot. He suggested they move it out of
the site of the neighbors so they are not affected by the activities that go on at this location.
Schaepe said he has had soccer practice at this location and the mosquitoes are terrible in
that corner. Fox pointed out that this corner is used for the fourth of July fireworks display
and if it is used to locate the playground they would have to find a different location for the
fireworks. Fox also pointed out that this is a blind corner for people riding bicycles.
Lambert asked what the Commission preferred. He asked if staff should do nothing or if
they should look for a different location on the west side of the lake. Teaver asked if the
playground could be placed further north. Fox said there is an exercise station at that
location. Yasiri pointed out that should this totlot be replaced at the existing location or
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closer to the lake or High School, more parents and children will use this facility and may
discourage High School students from hanging out there. Lambert said he found it
interesting that not one person that signed the petition requesting replacement of this totlot
was in attendance at this meeting. Yasiri asked if it would be possible to entertain a motion
to convene a small group of neighbors that live in that area to work out some type of option
as to the placement of this totlot that is agreeable to all parties. Lambert said he would not
be in favor of that idea. He said he feels they simply have to notify the entire neighborhood
again and not just a few people. This totlot does affect the entire neighborhood. Lambert
suggested that staff try to find a better location and to renotify the neighborhood based on
the input from this meeting and from the neighbors requesting that the playground be
relocated. Swanson asked if there would be any additional costs for relocating this
playground. Lambert said no because it would be done in-house.
Motion: Barrett moved, seconded by Gerst, to direct staff to find a better location for the
totlot that is a more appropriate site. The motion carried, 8-0.
An unidentified member of the audience said he was concerned about the option of having
the playground located on the other side of the trees. There are so many different high
school sport groups that use this site for alternative training. The number of high school
kids using the site out weighs the number of kids using it for a totlot.
V. OLD BUSINESS
A. Round Lake Water Ouality Report and Recommendations for 2003
Lambert reported that a couple of years ago City staff recommended trying a three-year
experiment with a company called Greener Pastures to attempt to improve the water quality
at Round Lake. The Watershed District was not in favor of their process because it was not
scientifically proven to work. It took two years to get approval to use a product called
Clarify to biologically reduce the availability of nutrients in the lake. This product
appeared to work successfully in small ponds. There have been different opinions on
whether or not this procedure has been successful. The City decided it was worth a try for
an approximate cost of$40,000 per year. The City entered into a contract with Greener
Pastures to pay them$20,000 for the first year and if they could bring the trophic index to
48 that year the City would pay then an additional $20,000. The first year of the application
was a very dry year and it was brought to 47. Last year was a very rainy year and the
trophic index rose to 56. Lambert explained that this will be the third year of the
experiment and the contract is for$35,000; a $20,000 down payment at the beginning of
the year with a $15,000 payment at the end of the year provided the average trophic state
index was 48 or less. At the end of this year the City will decide if they should continue
this process. If this treatment does work, staff will recommend doing it in some other lakes
as well.
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Barrett asked if this is unrelated to the fecal problem. Lambert responded that this
addresses water quality and clarity while thefecal problem is goose management. If they
are not able to do a better job managing the geese, it is all for naught in terms of operating
the beach. The beach was closed because of the fecal coliform count. They will attempt to
remove the geese in late June or early July. They are also looking at applying a chemical
on the grass to deter the geese.
Yasiri asked if staff has looked at any other solutions besides using Clarify or alum.
Lambert explained that staff has met with park Limnologists from the University of
Minnesota, the DNR and the Three-Rivers District to discuss options. Alum does work but
it is extremely expensive and there does not appear to be any other filter system developed
to accomplish what they are attempting to do.
Schaepe pointed out that the 2000 community survey results showed that the third highest
desire was to improve the water quality at Round Lake. This came in higher than
renovating and expanding the Community Center and adding or building an actual water
park. Schaepe said he feels this experiment has proven itself. The treatment was successful
for one year but the second year it was not. If both years met their goal, it would be thought
of as being successful. Schaepe said he feels the experiment has been successful in proving
that this process does not work under all conditions. Schaepe said he would like to go on
record as not supporting the third year of this treatment. He said he feels it is time to look
ahead for something better. Schaepe indicated that there are a number of other things they
need to be looking at to try to improve the water quality.
In response to a question from Yasiri, Lambert explained that the on-going cost should they
decided to continue with this process would be $30,000 to $35,000 a year. Schaepe said
with regard to the alum treatment, the Watershed District does have money available to
help pay for water improvements. The City needs to apply for these funds and have this
project weighed against other needs. Lambert explained that the Watershed is responsible
for a majority of the installation cost while the City would be responsible for the treatment
which would cost$25,000 to $30,000. Yasiri asked if they decided to not go with the
Clarify treatment,how long would it take to get some other type of treatment in place.
Lambert responded that with all of the proper approvals, it would take at least a year to
design a system and complete construction. Lambert said he is not sure the Watershed
District has money allocated for this project. Yasiri said it appears that they would lose
nothing by continuing with the Clarify treatment and starting discussions with the
Watershed District for other treatments. Lambert said he would prefer not to start
discussions until after it has been decided that the Clarify treatment is not working. Yasiri
asked if they don't go forward with the Clarify treatment would there be three years with
no treatment. Lambert said that was correct. Schaepe asked if the City has started plans for
the retention pieces. Lambert said they have. The Watershed District did give the City a list
of recommendations that included improving retention ponds, putting fish feeders in to
increase the size of the sunfish and to put in a fishing pier. All of those things have been
done as suggested by the Watershed with the exception of the alum treatment plan.
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Gertz asked if anything is going to be done with regards to controlling the geese. Lambert
said that in addition to what they have done in the past, this year they would try spraying
the grass a couple hundred feet away from the lake to deter the geese from using the lake.
If they do not significantly improve the water quality of this lake and are not able to
effectively manage the goose problem, there would be no point in keeping the beach open.
The residents of Eden Prairie do not think this is a good place to swim. Last year the
number of lifeguards outnumbered the swimmers on many occasions.
Barrett questioned the $35,000 payment to Greener Pastures. He said the City may be able
to help them get other jobs if this project is successful. Barrett said he feels the contractor
should lower his price considerably. Lambert explained that the contractor does all of the
work and he did discuss this with him. The contractor believes he is subsidizing the project
at this price. Barrett pointed out that if no one is able to swim in this lake, $40,000 is a
significant amount of money for an experiment. It appears to benefit the contractor more
than the City.
An unidentified member of the audience re-emphasized the goose issue. If the City treats
one side of the lake, the geese will only move to the other side. The goose problem is there
all year long. They need to treat both sides of the lake to deter the geese. Fox said the fecal
coliform will disappear if they treat the beach areas. If the geese remain in the grass area
there is less chance of the water being affected.
Motion: Schaepe moved to cancel the 2003 Round Lake Water Quality Improvement
Project using Clarify. The motion failed for lack of a second.
Motion: Swanson moved, Gerst seconded, to accept the 2002 Round Lake Water Quality
Monitoring Report and request for Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District to
authorize monitoring of Round Lake in 2003 for the third and final year of the Round Lake
Water Quality Improvement Project. The motion carried, 6-1-1 with Schaepe voting no and
Larson abstaining. Larson said he abstained because all they can do is hope for an average
year. Also, they will have this data but will still have a goose problem. Larson said he
would like to see some time line on what the City is going to do and how they will go about
it to correct the goose problem.
B. Recommendation to Reduce Lifeguard Hours at Round Lake Park
Lambert explained that during the summer of 2002 it became obvious that residents of
Eden Prairie did not believe that Round Lake is a desirable place to swim. Often the
lifeguards outnumbered the swimmers. Staff is recommending reducing the hours that
Round Lake beach is guarded during the summer of 2003 to 1:00 p.m. until 4:00 p.m.
Swanson asked if lifeguards are not on duty, can the residents still swim at their own risk.
Lambert said they can. Signs will be posted to indicate that. Gerst asked if a lifeguard is
needed at all. Lambert said not legally but the City has always guarded the beaches. Barrett
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asked what the total cost is for the lifeguards for a summer. Lambert responded that it cost
approximately $30,000 to $40,000 to operate Round Lake Beach. In response to a question
from Barrett, Lambert explained that they are recommending this change now so that the
new hours can be included in their summer brochure. The operation of Round Lake Beach
can be brought back to this Commission in July.
Motion: Larson moved, seconded by Wright, to reduce the number of hours per day that
Round Lake Beach is guarded during the summer of 2003 to 1:00 p.m. until 4:00 p.m.
VI. NEW BUSINESS
A. Open Swim Time Chance Request
DeGree explained that staff is recommending discontinuing open swim at the Community
Center Saturday evenings from 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. The last three-month's revenues for
the open swim time average $13.50 per Saturday with expenses at approximately $45 per
Saturday. This exceeds the City's subsidy level of 50 percent. DeGree further explained that
if the recommendation is approved, there are still several options for open swim available to
residents at Oak Point and at the Community Center. Staff will pursue other cost-effective
solutions to utilize the pool Saturday evenings between 7:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m.
Swanson asked if staff has any idea why the participation numbers are so low. Lambert said
it is his opinion that people in this community have experienced other community centers
which include a more exciting pool and not just a competitive swimming pool. Teaver said
she has never seen any programs for swim events such as is done for the skate facilities. She
suggested that staff look into this for these Saturday times. Larson asked if this
recommendation is approved, would sufficient notice of the new hours be given to the
residents. DeGree responded that they are proposing to include these new hours in their new
schedule that will come out April 1. The new schedule will also be posted at the Community
Center.
Motion: Wright moved, seconded by Larson, to discontinue open swim at the Community
Center Saturday evenings from 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. The motion carried, 8-0.
B. Trail Construction Priority Projects for 2003
Lambert reported that every year the City budgets $125,000 for trail construction and repair.
The City generally has over$3 million of trail construction and repair projects on the
proposed schedule. Staff attempts to prioritize projects using the trail system valuation chart
and recommendations from the maintenance staff regarding critical maintenance projects that
must be completed immediately for safety reasons. Included with the Commission's agenda
was a proposed schedule for the trail projects identified for 2003.
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Swanson asked if mile markers would be added to the upgraded trails. Lambert explained
that the only place they add mile markers is around a lake. On transportation trails it is
difficult to determine where people come on and off the trails.
Motion: Larson moved, Gerst seconded, to recommend the proposed schedule for the trail
projects identified for 2003, including:
A. County Road 1 from Staring Lane to Staring Lake Parkway
B. Trail to Bryant Lake Park from Bryant Lake Drive
C. Crestwood Park Trail Connection
D. Purgatory Creek Recreation Area Trail
E. Birch Island Woods Parking Lot and Trail Improvement
F. Rice Marsh Lake Trail Connection
G. Edenvale Boulevard Trail Improvements
H. Andersons Lakes Parkway Trail from Franlo Road West to the Underpass
The motion carried, 8-0.
C. Proposed Amendment to Chapter 9 of the City Code Restricting Use of Dangerous
Weapons
Lambert explained that staff is requesting a change to the Park Use Ordinance that would
restrict paint guns from City parks. When this law was challenged, the Police and City
Attorney felt the existing language of the ordinance did not include paint ball guns. Staff
feels that paint ball courts are not appropriate uses in City parks.
(Larson left at 9:05 p.m.)
Westphal stated that occasionally he and his friends use the park facilities for paint ball. He
asked that the City consider creating a designated area for paint ball. He said they are aware
of the public's concern for people in camouflage running in the parks carrying paint guns. If
an area is designated for paint ball, many of these concerns could be addressed. Lambert
pointed out that a paint ball park would require a large amount of space which would have to
be designated for that use. This would be similar to an off-leash dog park. Lambert suggested
that Westphal get a group of people together to present a proposal to this Commission. This
proposal should include a plan and a possible location. Westphal asked if this ordinance also
prohibits the use of air soft guns in the parks. Lambert said they should be included. The
amended ordinance does include air or gas weapons. Lambert suggested that they include
spring loaded guns to Section 2 of the ordinance as well.
Motion: Gerst moved, seconded by Larson, to approve the first reading of an ordinance
amending City Code Chapter 9 by amending Section 9.04 relating to rules and regulations
governing public parks. The motion carried, 7-0.
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Shea asked if a particular site in the City could be used as a paint ball park. Lambert pointed
out that it must be City owned property. He should consider proposing an area to staff and
the Commission for consideration if he has an area in mind.
D. Commission Terms
Lambert explained that five Commission member's terms are completed as of March 31,
2003. He asked that members interested in reappointment complete the blue sheet that was
provided to them and turn it in no later than February 6.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Motion: Gerst moved, Barrett seconded, to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at
9:10 p.m. The motion carried 7-0.