HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 02/02/2004 APPROVED MINUTES
PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 2004 7:00 PM, CITY CENTER
Council Chamber
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Jeffrey Gerst, Vice Chair; Randy Jacobus, David
Larson, Ian Mackay (arrived at 7:15 p.m.), Michael
Moriarity and Bruce Schaepe
COMMISSION MEMBER ABSENT: Rob Barrett, Chair; Tom Crain, John Brill
COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation
Services; Laurie Obiazor, Manager of Recreation
Services; Stu Fox, Manager of Natural Resources;
and Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Rachel Giertz, Cole Johnson and Chris Shea
I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order by Vice Chair Gerst at 7:00 p.m.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Motion: Larson moved, seconded by Jacobus, to approve the agenda as presented. The motion
carried, 6-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —January 5, 2004
Schaepe pointed out that he was absent from that meeting and would not have been able to
second the motion for approval of the agenda. The minutes are to read that Larson seconded the
motion for approval of the agenda.
Motion: Motion was made by Mackay, seconded by Larson, to approve the minutes as
corrected. The motion carried, 5-0-1 with Schaepe abstaining because of absence from that
meeting.
IV. REPORT OF CITY COUNCIL ACTION
Lambert reported on action taken by the City Council at their February 6 meeting. They
considered bids for the Purgatory Creek Project. Approximately $70,000 was raised for this
project with the high bid for the Jean Harris Bridge coming in at$195,000. The second low bid
was $105,000 and the Council went with the low bid overall. Lambert explained that on January
6 the Council did authorize going ahead with the Jean Harris Bridge project. The Council asked
that the Watershed District provide additional funding for this project. The difference between
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February 2, 2004
Page 2
the high bid and the next bid for the bridge was $50,000 and the Watershed District agreed to
split the difference and to give the City an additional$25,000 if the City would match that
amount.
Lambert reported that on January 20 the Baseball Association took their stadium plan for Miller
Park to the City Council for consideration. All members of the Council liked the concept but
took no formal action. They did not want to pick one item to support for the referendum.
Lambert explained that he did not take the Soccer Association's request for no dogs at Flying
Cloud Fields to the City Council. Lambert said he has the authority to designate no dogs in the
park and since the Parks Commission supported this request he will have the fields posted
without City Council action. No dogs will be allowed at Flying Cloud after April 1.
At the second meeting in December the City Council authorized an appraisal of the Birch Island
Woods property. Lambert reported that that appraisal came in at$800,000.
Lambert reported that City staff member Carla Kress received the Dorothea Nelson award from
the Minnesota Recreation and Parks Association (MRPA). Each year this award is presented to
one female park professional with less than 15 years of service. The Parks and Recreation
Department also received the Award of Excellence from MRPA for their Leisure Education
Program.
V. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATION
A. Baseball Association Request
Stuart Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources, explained that the Baseball Association
has requested that there be several improvements made to various baseball fields throughout
the City. Last year they presented to the City a 50150 deal whereby the Association provides
50 percent of the funding for the project they request. The Baseball Association has more
requests for long-term than what the City could fund in one year. The proposal presented this
evening would be Phase 11 with Phase III being presented next year. Fox stated that this
process has worked out to be a good partnership. Lambert pointed out that the improvements
requested would have to eventually be done at 100% of City cost,but the Baseball
Association does not want to wait to have them done. This works well for both organizations
because the improvements are done sooner and the City does not have to pay for 100 percent
of the improvements. Staff is proposing that improvements be made to seven fields at an
estimated cost of$27,000. The Baseball Association has indicated that they would fund one-
half of the cost or $13,500 for the 2004 construction season. Brill asked if they worked
together in determining which improvements are to be done. Fox responded that the first
proposal did include 13 different fields. Staff took that list and fine-tuned it to the list
presented this evening. Basically, the City did about$32,000 in improvements last year and
this year they are looking at approximately $27,000 in improvements.
Motion: Motion was made by Jacobus, seconded by Mackay, to authorize improvements at
seven City baseball fields at a cost share of 50 percent expenditure for the City and 50
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February 2, 2004
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percent expenditure for the Eden Prairie Baseball Association as per the request dated
January 12, 2004. The motion carried, 7-0.
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Referendum Discussion
Lambert reported that final numbers for the projects discussed this evening would not be
available until the end of the week. The architect is working on this plan to provide much
better and more accurate numbers. The numbers being used this evening are only to give the
Commission an idea of how this referendum might work.
Lambert explained that the City Council has indicated that they want to divide the
referendum into two questions. The question was raised, "What if only one question passes?"
There are certain things that would have to be done to the Community Center to
accommodate a new swimming pool including site work and expansion of the Community
Center. Lambert stated that one of the key revenue sources for the outdoor pool is the
concession stand and a new concession stand would have to be constructed to support a new
pool. Lambert said they would also like to deepen the existing pool so that it could be used as
it was originally designed and they need to fix the Freon system and roof of the Community
Center. There are approximately $1.8 million of improvements or repairs that have to be
done whether or not the referendum passes. If two questions are placed on the ballot, those
items would have to be included twice and it would be difficult to do this without confusing
the residents. Lambert said, for example, if they project that the Community Center
improvements cost$3 million, the pool$6 million and the site work $1.3 million you end up
with a$10.3 million question. They will have to include the expansion of the locker rooms,
address the concession stand, redesign the lobby entry, redesign the office and access control,
deepen the existing pool,repair the Freon system and roof and provide a new entry in both
questions because these things have to be done. These improvements may cost between $3 -
$3.5 million. Lambert said that there are three possible options for an outdoor pool. The first
option is what was recommended by the Pool Committee, which was estimated to cost$7.9
million. If they eliminated the 50-meter pool, this would reduce the cost to $6.9 million. The
third option would be to do something similar to the Wellbridge model, which was a pool
scaled down even further.
Lambert explained that the second question could include a multi-use gym at the Community
Center, new access to the ice arena, expanded seating, team rooms, expanded fitness center,
improved access to rink two, additional above pool seating, a childcare play area and indoor
running track. These Community Center improvements would cost an estimated $6 - $6.5
million. The second question would also include an estimated $4.7 million in park
improvements for a total of$10.7 million. If both questions were passed, there would be an
extra $3 million because of the duplication of items on both questions. The City Council
would have the option to only sell the amount of bonds required or they could sell an
additional $1 million for a third ice rink, if the Hockey Association gave the City $1 million
in cash.
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Lambert questioned how they could present this to the general public. They need to keep the
questions simple and what is being proposed is not easy to understand. Jacobus said they
should indicate that the pool would cost$6 million, the Community Center $3 million, site
improvements $1 million and everything else $5 million. This could result in Question A
being for $15 million and Question B being $15 million less $6 million for the pool. Schaepe
suggested they have a three-way question. They could vote for either A or A and B. Lambert
said that may result in the question not passing because each question would need a majority
of votes.
Jacobus pointed out that the Flying Cloud fields and hockey rink improvements are important
and perhaps even more important than a pool and he asked what would happen if the
referendum for those items don't pass. Jacobus said he would prefer a Question A for $15
million to get everything and a Question B for everything but the pool. Lambert said this
might result in dividing up the yes votes. If you have two questions you have to have people
vote yes or no on each question. They need 50 percent of voter turnout for each question.
Jacobus said it appears obvious to him that they need one question. Lambert said from what
he has heard, it appears that the City Council wants two questions.
Larson said they need to seriously look at what is needed and what is wanted. Irregardless of
how the people vote, there are certain things that need to be done. He asked if there is
someway they can word the question to indicate which items are needed. There really isn't
enough time to write letters to the editor explaining all of this. Larson pointed out that a$20
million bond issue would cost the average homeowner$5.50 a month and they have to let the
residents know what they are going to get for that additional $5.50. If a third sheet of ice isn't
done now and decided to be done at a later day they will have to redesign the Community
Center. It is better to do it all at one time.
Jacobus said he thinks it is a bad move to go forward with two questions. A single question is
simpler for the voter to understand what they are getting. Lambert said they need to make the
question so that it is easy to understand for the voters. They have to be able to explain to
them that if one question does not pass certain things will be done and if both questions pass
certain things will be done. Mackay said they have to spell out that if both questions pass
there will be an extra$3 million and perhaps they need a third question to clarify that.
Mackay said he is not in favor of that. If both questions pass he does not feel they should
come back and say we are double counting this $3 million that we will keep and use for
something else without laying it out very specifically.
Lambert explained that a prior survey showed that over 50 percent of the people in the
community wanted the City to have an outdoor pool. The other question will be whether or
not the Athletic Association gets its members out there to vote for improved fields. If you
don't have children participating in sports, you will not know the condition of the fields or
what the need is. Brill said the residents must realize that these improvements will add value
to their property. He indicated that he has already sent an e-mail to the Mayor and City
Council suggesting that the referendum consist of only one question and he recommended
that the rest of the Commission do the same.
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In response to a question from Gerst, Fox explained that on a referendum if the voters do not
vote for a question it counts as a no vote. Jacobus said he feels if they have more than one
question it implies that the City is not certain on what the community needs.
Motion: Brill moved, Mackay seconded, to recommend to the City Council that the 2004
Park Referendum consist of only one question containing all recommended improvements.
Jacobus said they need to include all of the recommended improvements because he
personally feels that this Commission knows more than the general public and they have
identified a lot of things that may not be most popular but are needed. They must avoid
giving the people a choice of voting on the most popular and not getting the things that are
most needed for the City. Jacobus said he also thinks that having more than one question
implies that they are not 100 percent certain as to what is best for the people and he said he
thinks they do know what is best because the Commission has more information than the
general public. Moriarity said it is also important to point out that the Commission is
recommending all of the improvements because they are needed and because of that they are
not recommending separating the questions. The Commission wants all of these things to be
funded. Jacobus said it makes it clearer and they don't have to double count the
improvements. Some of the items being asked for funding have been included as high
priorities on previous surveys conducted. Larson said they need to do this right the first time.
They need to look at what they will be getting for their money.
Lambert explained that the City Council will be considering this referendum at their
February 17 meeting and at that meeting they will have a breakdown of the estimated costs
for the various items including a breakdown on improvements to the Community Center and
pool. However, that money does not show the $6 million for the expansion of the
Community Center. If they try to make this work for half the cost, it may be extremely
expensive to do what they want to do at a later date. It would cost the average homeowner
fifty cents a month more to do it the right way. Larson said it is important that the
homeowner realize what they are getting for their money.
Lambert stated that the City Council has instructed staff to present two questions. He said
staff will give the City Council one question and two questions and let them decide from
there. Moriarity asked if the capital improvements budget has been set for 2005 and 2006 and
asked how this plays on the referendum question. He asked if there is other revenue available
for the things that have to be done. Lambert said they cannot mix bonding money with cash
park fees. The Capital Improvement Plan is a six year plan and shows what needs to be done
on which date. If they are asked to bring forward funding other items will not be funded. The
six-year Capital Improvement plan was approved and a budget adopted. Five hundred
thousand dollars to replace the Freon system ws eliminated from the budget as was
approximately $260,000 for the Community Center roof and $250,000 to deepen the pool.
All of those Community Center capital items were eliminated to balance the budget and that
is one of the reasons for this bond referendum.
Moriarity said the $3 million overlap shows how integrated the proposals really are. Jacobus
said they need one comprehensive question that is based on the community's wants. The
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citizens of Eden Prairie have requested the items included in the referendum. Gerst said that
strategically, it is best that they come out with one question. He stated that this Commission
and the City Council have been studying these issues for some time and know what is going
on and the items proposed for this referendum are best for the City. Gerst said that whatever
the City Council puts forward as their referendum is something they need to think is good.
Vote was called on the motion with all members present voting aye. The motion carried, 7-0.
Moriarity asked if they need to recommend an amount for the referendum. There was an
editorial in the local paper discussing a moderate referendum. He asked if this Commission
should recommend a target amount to the City Council. Brill said that might be difficult to do
since they do not have all of the numbers. Jacobus said that the projects might be more
important than the numbers. Moriarity pointed out that the School Board is also preparing for
a referendum. People do focus on the numbers and Moriarity said that is his main concern.
They will be anticipating the next referendum. Mackay said he does not disagree with
Moriarity but they do not have sufficient information to determine the amount for the
referendum. Gerst said the Council will receive a copy of this Commission's minutes and the
Council will decide on the amount necessary. Gerst said he is comfortable with the $20
million figure but if it came in at$21 million and the Council thinks that's best for the
community he would also be comfortable with that.
Schaepe asked if the Commission wanted to discuss the proposed projects that they want
included in the referendum. There are some controversial ones such as the 50-meter pool and
the third sheet of ice. Jacobus said he attended his first competitive swim meet in Hopkins
and was surprised at the number of people participating in the event. In discussions with
people attending this event,he found out that there is more competition in the winter than in
the summer. If they change the indoor pool to a competitive pool for meets they may not
need a 50-meter competitive pool outdoors as well. Lambert responded that all serious
competitive swimmers swim year round and need a 50-meter pool for the summer long-
course season. He explained that the reason they went from eight lanes to six lanes was
because they recognized that six lanes is sufficient for practice,but not wide enough for
competitive swim meets. They will have to rent a pool at another municipality to host a meet,
but will be able to practice in Eden Prairie. Jacobus said that if this were the case he would
like something that the Fox Jets would consider a good practice facility. He said they should
listen to the experts and the users and try to design something that will be used in the middle
of the day by recreational swimmers. This makes sense in other ways as well.
With regard to a third ice sheet, Jacobus said over one-third of the hockey practices for his
son are outside of the City. He said it would be nice to be able to stay in the community.
There is a need to redo the Community Center and Jacobus said he feels there is also a need
for an additional sheet of ice.
Mackay suggested that this Commission hold a special meeting next week to determine what
the cost would be of the items they want placed on the referendum so that they can come up
with a recommendation and indicate which items this Commission wants on the referendum.
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Mackay said he personally does not know how they can use a$20 million number without
knowing what everything will cost.
Gerst said he always thought a 50-meter pool would be nice to have but it is not a need. If
they must choose between a 50-meter pool rather than a recreational pool he would rather
have the recreational pool. It all depends on how much money they want to spend. Larson
explained that their objective is to be forward looking with the pool. It cost as much to
operate a pool as it does a sheet of ice but the revenue generated from the pool is nothing
compared to a third sheet of ice. If they build a facility with eight lanes they would generate
nominal revenue. If the water quality in the lakes in the City is not improved, everyone will
want to use the pool. It would be inappropriate to shut down the entire water park for an
entire summer to build a pool at a later date. This is something that should be done right
away for an additional 50 cents per homeowner per month. Larson asked if they would be
creating a facility similar to the Oak Point Pool by only proposing a six lane pool. Lambert
said a totally separate competitive swimming pool could be constructed or they could try to
incorporate a 50-meter pool with a recreational pool. Lambert said he would recommend that
they try to accomplish at least a six lane 50-meter pool in a recreational configuration
recognizing it would meet practices needs but not to construct a pool for actual meets. The
Fox Jets swim team has indicated that six lanes would accommodate their practices. The Fox
Jets only host one 50-meter meet a year, they can rent another facility for that meet.
Brill indicated that his biggest concern with a 50-meter pool/waterpark is that the best selling
point of a waterpark is that it will fund itself. If they add a 50-meter pool that will probably
take away from some of the revenue. Brill said they are also pretty land locked in that space
and will not be able to expand. The nice thing about a waterpark is that they are able to make
changes. Brill said he did not know if he was in favor of a 50-meter pool that would take up
10 to 15 percent of the space that could be used for the waterpark. Lambert stated that one of
the problems they had with the design of the pool was the architect. Staff has since been in
touch with an architect from Illinois who is a very creative pool designer. If it is decided that
a waterpark should be placed on the referendum and passes, staff could possibly hire this
architect to design the City's new facility. Lambert reported that a recent survey did indicate
that a vast majority of the Eden Prairie residents wanted a waterpark. The 50-meter pool was
a low priority. If a pool architect can make a six lane 50-meter pool work in an innovative
water park he thinks we should support it. If the architect states that it is a bad idea, we
should discuss it with the architect before changing our plan.
Motion: Brill moved, seconded by Jacobus, to recommend to the City Council that a six-
lane, 50-meter outdoor pool be included in the 2004 park referendum if it can be
incorporated in a feasible waterpark design. The motion carried, 7-0.
Jacobus said the Commission should also consider including a third sheet of ice in the
proposed referendum because they seem to pay for themselves. Lambert said they are getting
to the point where that could be a push. The second sheet of ice was built 11 years ago with
$2 million of revenue bonds. It does pay its operating costs and pays the bonds off. At that
time they could easily identify 1,600 hours of prime ice time being used. It is now difficult to
rent ice time after 9:00 p.m. Prime time is now estimated to be 1,200 hours. Lambert said the
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February 2, 2004
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City could probably sell $1 million of revenue bonds for the third sheet of ice. The voters
should be informed that the hockey players and skaters are paying more for their facilities
than any other users.
Moriarity said he supports a third rink. There are some very persuasive arguments for the
third sheet and he feels that they should do this now while other improvements are being
made to the Community Center.
Lambert said he would suggest that if the Commission decides to support a third sheet of ice
they make it contingent on the Hockey Association providing at least 30 percent of the cost
of the rink in cash. He said he is concerned that if they do not have the cash and the building
is built it may be difficult to get the remaining money once the facility is constructed.
Jacobus said he also supports a third rink. There are more hockey players in the City than ice
time. Moriarity questioned the 30 percent contribution. Lambert pointed out that the Hockey
Association has indicated that they have $1 million of pledges. He stated that if the Hockey
Association cannot provide subsidy funding for the third sheet of ice it should not be
included on the referendum as it would be a liability without that message to the public.
Motion: Jacobus moved, seconded by Gerst, to recommend to the City Council that they
include building a third sheet of ice on the 2004 park referendum if the Hockey Association
provides $1 million toward the building costs of the rink.
Brill asked if the metro area is getting saturated with rinks. Lambert said they are but to the
point of where they almost have the facilities necessary. The hockey arena is the only facility
in the City that pays for their operating costs. Brill said he does have some concern about
who will be paying for this third sheet of ice but if the Commission feels it is the right thing
to do he would go with the Commission. Brill asked if the Hockey Association would be
paying $1 million or more. Lambert responded that they would be paying an additional $1
million because they would be paying the referendum bond off with revenues. In reality, they
will be paying $2 million, or two-thirds of the cost of that facility.
Vote was called on the motion. The motion carried, 6-0-1 with Mackay abstaining.
VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. Trail Projects for 2004
Lambert explained that every year there is $125,000 in the General Fund budget for trail
projects. This amount goes up $10,000 a year for the next few years. There are
approximately $3 million of trail construction and repair projects proposed on this schedule.
Motion: Moriarity moved, seconded by Gerst, to recommend approval of the proposed
schedule for trail projects identified for 2004 including:
A) Linden Drive from existing trail to Hennepin Town Road.
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B) Anderson Lakes Parkway from Franlo Road west to the underpass and east to the
existing trail.
C) Completion of the Purgatory Creek Recreation Area trail.
D) On both sides of Highway 212 from Prairie Center Drive south to Columbine.
E) Crestwood Park trial connection between Settlers Ridge development and Crestwood
neighborhood park.
F) Rice Marsh Lake Trail connection.
The motion carried, 7-0.
B. Playsround Projects for 2004
Lambert reported that the City has conducted a playground audit using a system developed
through the National Recreation and Park Association. Staff is proposing to replace two
playgrounds; Willow Park and High Trail Estates. Lambert briefly reviewed with the
Commission the process for awarding bids for playground projects. Those bids for the two
projects mentioned will be before this Commission in March. No formal action was required.
C. Park Construction Projects for 2004
Staff presented a brief update of park construction projects that will be completed in 2004 as
well as additional projects that will be initiated in 2004. No formal action was required.
VIII. REPORTS OF STAFF
D. Director of Parks and Recreation Services
1. Appointment Process for Boards and Commission
Lambert informed the Commission that David Larson and Bruce Schaepe's terms will
expire and they have indicated that they will not be seeking reappointment. Jeff Gerst and
Mike Moriarity's terms are also up but they have indicated that they will reapply. The
first meeting of the new appointees will be in April.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Motion: Jacobus moved, Larson seconded, to adjourn the meeting. The motion carried 7-0. The
meeting was adjourned at 9:20 p.m.