HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks and Recreation - 01/05/2004 APPROVED MINUTES
PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY,JANUARY 5, 2004 7:00 PM, CITY CENTER
Council Chamber
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Rob Barrett, Chair; Jeffrey Gerst, Vice Chair; John
Brill, Tom Crain, Randy Jacobus, David Larson, Ian
Mackay and Michael Moriarity
COMMISSION MEMBER ABSENT: Bruce Schaepe
COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation
Services; and Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Rachel Giertz, Cole Johnson and Chris Shea
I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order by Chair Barrett at 7:05 p.m.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Motion: Larson moved, seconded by Jacobus, to approve the agenda as presented. The motion
carried, 8-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —December 1, 2003
Motion: Motion was made by Mackay, seconded by Jacobus, to approve the minutes as
published. The motion carried, 7-0-1 with Barrett abstaining because of absence from that
meeting.
IV. REPORT OF CITY COUNCIL ACTION
This item was held over to the end of the meeting.
V. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATION
A. Request from Baseball Association
Mary Morgan, Baseball Association President, explained that the Association is attempting
to establish a better baseball program by improving facilities with the Miller Park proposal.
This proposed project has been in the works for approximately ten years. Last year they
opened a concession building and found that the revenue from that project has enabled them
to pursue their dreams. The proposed facility will include a covered viewing area that would
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January 5, 2004
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be constructed over restrooms, a concession area and storage area at that field. The
improvements would also include dugouts for players. The Baseball Association is asking for
approximately $1 million for this project. The Eden Prairie Baseball Association has raised
approximately $150,000 from the concession building and an anonymous donor has donated
an additional $100,000. Morgan said the Baseball Association is asking the City for the
additional funding that will be required to accomplish this project.
Lambert stated that when they started discussing this project ten years ago, City staff felt it
was a good project but had many other priorities. Approximately five years ago City staff
suggested that the Association work with an architect to design the facility. They did use the
same architect that the City uses, Del Erickson, and came up with the design presented this
evening. With this proposal, there would be seating for approximately 600 people with the
ability to add additional seating to the end of the bleachers. Lambert said City staff feels this
facility would get a lot of use and would generate public interest in the baseball program.
Lambert explained that$450,000 had been budgeted in the City's Capital Improvement Plan
for 2008 and the Association is asking that the City move this funding up in the Plan. The
Baseball Association is concerned that their leadership will change and they will lose the
momentum for the completion of this proposal. Lambert said he is suggesting that if the City
does decide to have a referendum, they consider including money to be set-aside for projects
that have matching funds. The Softball Association, the Soccer Association and the Football
Association all want improvements made at Miller Park. If there is seed money funded for
projects such as this, they may be able to provide other facilities at other fields. Lambert said
he would recommend that they consider adding $3 million to a possible referendum as
money for incentives for organizations that want to raise money for acquisition of land, trail
construction, etc. and to be used for matching grants. Lambert said he feels this would be a
good incentive program to have in the community.
Brill asked if the Baseball Association has looked at other ways to raise the necessary funds
for this proposed project. For example, grants from the Minnesota Twins or corporate
sponsors. Morgan said they have not at this time. This is their first step and a Board member
is working on encompassing fund raising, sponsorships, etc.
Barrett asked what the total cost is for the project. Lambert responded that the cost is
approximately $1 million with an additional $170,000 for dugouts and fencing, an additional
$207,000 for a gatehouse and concrete plaza that is fenced. It is estimated that the entire
project would cost$1.4 million. Lambert explained that the Association has raised
approximately $250,000 and is asking the City to move the $450,000 in the CIP up several
years and that the remaining funding come from park fees or a referendum. Gerst asked why
this item was not included in the City's recent community survey. Lambert explained that
this proposal was not presented to the City until about two weeks ago while the survey was
done about three months ago.
Jacobus said it appears that the Baseball Association has a very aggressive board and it is
obvious that they want to get something done. He asked if there wasn't something they could
do to find other ways to fund this project. Lambert explained that the Commission does not
have to decide this evening whether or not the City would match the funds for this project or
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January 5, 2004
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from what budget the funding would come. He said the Commission could recommend to the
City Council that they consider putting some funds aside in a referendum that would be used
for park improvements that have matching funds from grants, donations, associations, etc.
Then as the requests come in for the various projects they could look at how much money the
City would have available for those projects and ask the organizations to raise the difference.
Moriarity asked if it was necessary to build the dugouts at the same time the main portion of
this project is built. Morgan responded that the dugouts would be part of the stadium,
however, they could be constructed in a second phase. Moriarity pointed out that by waiting
to build the dugouts,plaza and gatehouse they could save approximately $400,000. Lambert
said the Association is willing to build this project in phases. It would probably take $1
million to build the basic structure. In response to a question from Moriarity, Morgan
explained that funding is set aside each year for the Association's basic needs projects.
Larson pointed out that this project will have seating for 600 and he questioned whether or
not there would be adequate parking for this project. Lambert stated that there is a little over
900 parking spaces existing at Miller Park.
Jacobus said he feels that one of the advantages of this project is that it would have City staff
and the Athletic Association working closely together. The Association would be of
assistance in designing such a facility because of their experience with baseball. Jacobus said
he thinks it is a good idea to get everyone working together.
Barrett said he would like to see strict guidelines established for the use of these matching
funds. The organizations should be required to raise so much money before they can tap into
this fund. Lambert explained that there would be plenty of time to establish guidelines. Also,
it will be difficult for some organizations to raise a certain amount of funds. Each
Association is so different and the facilities they may be requesting can also be very
different. They may want to require a certain percentage of funding for a basic facility and
require a higher percentage for more elaborate facilities. If this funding is included in a
referendum they may have the opportunity to have something for everyone. If they have a
referendum and have multiple questions for different things on it they are more unlikely to
get any one of those questions passed. It has been almost 15 years since the City has had a
referendum for park improvements. By adding $3 million or something like that on the
referendum for park improvements it might get a wide support base. Moriarity said he is
concerned that people may interpret it to mean that they have to raise half of the costs and he
feels that this is something that should be clarified at a later time.
Don Jacobson, 16440 Luther Way, said one of the things the Commission is missing out on
is the revenue that will be generated at this facility. There will be a ticket booth at the plaza
and with a capacity for 600 people they could possibly generate about$33,000 a year or
$640,000 in 20 years. Jacobson said he is suggesting that they look at using the revenue
stream for funding this project. Lambert said that is a good point and if the Association wants
to fund the construction of the booth and fencing they can use the revenue generated from the
games for paying for these projects over the years.
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Motion: Barrett moved, seconded by Mackay, to recommend that the City Council consider
providing funds in an upcoming referendum for park improvements that would be available
for constructing public recreational facilities such as park shelters, concessions,public
restrooms and other improvements to the park system, and that are partially funded through
significant private donations. The motion carried 8-0.
Barrett said he recommends that they have strict guidelines for the use of these funds.
Lambert said the amount of private funding required would also depend on the number of
people served by the project and on the cost of the project.
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Request from Soccer Association
Lambert reported that the Eden Prairie Soccer Association requested that the City adopt an
ordinance that would not allow dogs at Flying Cloud athletic fields. This Commission asked
Staff to contact the various other Associations that use the fields to see if they have an
opinion on the banning of dogs. Lambert further reported that the Baseball Association
disagreed with the request. They feel that if the existing ordinance were enforced there would
not be a problem. The Football Association does not support the request and also feels the
existing ordinance should be enforced. The Girls Athletic Association agrees with the request
and the Lacrosse Association has no strong opinion either way. Lambert said Staff has had
some discussion with the Park Rangers about enforcing the regulation better and they
indicated that there is no way they can do that when there are so many participants at this one
location. If the dog is on a leash and still jumps on another bystander, there is nothing that
can be done. Lambert said this is not a good location for allowing dogs due to the number of
people (spectators) crowded between fields. It is a different type of activity than a
neighborhood park.
Ken Bomben, 9260 Kalus Circle, said he is the Director of the Eden Prairie Soccer
Association. He explained that their biggest issue is the number of participants in the
program and there is not a lot of spare space. The distance between the fields is minimal and
one dog can impact several fields. He pointed out that the baseball and football fields have
sidelines and have much better control because the dogs are further away from the players.
Bomben explained that the reason for their request is because in previous years they have
had numerous complaints from the parents in the program that dogs were leaving messes on
the fields and were disruptive to the soccer games.
Mackay asked if it would be possible to restrict dogs from the soccer fields but not from the
baseball or football fields. Lambert said that would be almost impossible to enforce. Jacobus
said he agrees with Bomben. There are between 500 and 750 kids and parents crammed onto
these fields. He asked if it would be possible to restrict dogs at certain times and have the
Soccer Association manage the process. Lambert said Staff would not support that. They
would end up with the same problem of the dogs defecating on the fields. It would be much
easier to enforce an ordinance restricting dogs from these fields. Barrett asked if it would be
possible for the Association to ask the parents to not bring their dogs to the soccer fields.
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Bomben responded that they have tried to do this through a letter for several years, however,
this is not effective without the backing of a City ordinance.
Mackay said he did not want to see a precedent set and that they would be expected to ban
dogs from other parks. Larson said he personally does not see this as a trend. The City did
move forward with an off leash area for dogs. Mackay said there should be a better way than
adopting an ordinance to handle this problem. Brill said he also feels they are setting a
precedent. The reasons for banning dogs are valid but he questioned whether or not they are
valid enough to adopt an ordinance. Barrett said he too agrees that there is a problem but
feels this remedy is rather extreme for a park that has a number of uses. Moriarity pointed out
that it has many uses but is designed for athletic uses.
Lambert explained that Flying Cloud is not designated as a "park" and is the only designated
"athletic field" in the City. Every other facility in the City that has ball fields is a park. They
have park trails and other recreational facilities and are used as neighborhood parks. The
park serving the neighborhood for this area is Staring Lake. Lambert said Staff is not
concerned about setting a precedent for a park use since this is the only athletic field in the
City.
Motion: Motion was made by Jacobus, seconded by Brill, because of the unique use of
Flying Cloud Athletic Fields for youth athletic activities, to recommend the City designate
"No Dogs Allowed" at Flying Cloud Athletic Fields beginning April 1, 2004. The
Commission does not want to set a precedent but believes this is a good policy for Flying
Cloud Athletic Fields, which is a single purpose facility. The motion carried, 7-1 with Barrett
voting nay.
B. Reservation Use of City Facilities
Lambert reported that this item is a follow-up to a discussion with this Commission
regarding the problem of the Athletic Associations subleasing the City's fields. City staff did
meet with representatives of the Athletic Associations that utilize the outdoor facilities and
talked about the facilities policy that was developed in 1977. This Commission did concur
that the City should revise their fees to charge direct cost for tournaments and clinics and to
follow the existing policy. It was also agreed that a better job should be done to communicate
to the Associations what this policy is. Lambert said on a yearly basis the City would invite
representatives from each Association to talk about policy issues and problems they have.
Staff also recommended that the School District consider adopting a policy for the use of
their fields and the subleasing of those fields similar to the City's. The School District is not
ready to do that because their Staff has been directed to raise revenues to pay for their
operational costs. Staff suggested that the next time the City and School Board meet they
discuss the overuse of facilities and if the policy should be changed to make the most use of
the facilities.
Barrett asked if they have been able to stop the subleasing of the fields or if they have to
regulate it more. Lambert responded that at this point there would be no subleasing taking
place. All uses would to through the City first. Mackay asked if this policy includes the High
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School. Lambert said it does. The policy on use addresses adult and Eden Prairie users and
use by the High School has the same rules. Mackay asked if the policy addresses the issue of
the High School deciding to rest their fields and to use the City's fields instead. Lambert said
the City would have to determine whether or not there are fields available for the High
School to use. The High School does have priority use on ordinary use. If they needed
additional fields because they are resting theirs, they would have to discuss this with the
Commission to determine why and what is fair to the Associations.
Moriarity asked if Crestwood comes on line in 2004, would there be an opportunity to rest a
couple of fields. Lambert said he did not think that would be possible because of the lacrosse
program beginning. The City will still be short of fields. If they are able to expand the Flying
Cloud athletic fields they should be able to take out two fields a year to rest and work on.
Motion: Motion was made by Gerst, seconded by Brill, to support the increase in facility use
fees for 2004 and for staff to meet with representatives from each of the athletic associations
that utilize outdoor fields on an annual basis to discuss the facility use policy and association
needs. The motion carried, 8-0.
VII. NEW BUSINESS
VIII. REPORTS OF STAFF
A. Director of Parks and Recreation Services
1. Discussion rmardins!Referendum
Lambert explained that discussion has been held regarding the various surveys that have
been conducted over the years. These surveys have given them a trend on how the
residents change their minds. This Commission and City Council do know more than the
general public because they have received more information on where the City is and
what the City's needs are and they may make decisions that initially go against the recent
telephone survey. The 2001 survey showed that the residents wanted an outdoor
waterpark, 18-hole golf course and the expansion of bike and nature trails. The 2003
survey showed less support for an outdoor pool with more support for the repair of the
indoor pool and additional trails and land. This Commission must now think about what
the highest priority should be and what the City can afford. The Commission must decide
how much they want to recommend to the City Council to be included in the proposed
referendum. They also need to consider improvements to the Community Center and
whether or not they ask for everything recommended by the Task Force or if that should
be pared down and done in phases. The City Council has indicated that they would like
the referendum to be held on May 11. This would require that all of the information be
ready by March 2. Lambert said they might want to consider$6 to $7 million for the pool
and $6 million for the Community Center renovation. If additional funds are required
they may have to find them from somewhere else. The recommended amount by the Task
Forces for the Community Center and outdoor waterpark is $16.5 million. Moriarity
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asked if this amount includes the baseball fields. Lambert said it does not replace the
softball fields but does relocate the baseball field by the Community Center.
Lambert stated that a joint meeting with the City Council and this Commission is
scheduled for January 20 to discuss these very issues. They will be discussing dollar
amounts and priority. The Commission should also think about whether or not there
should be a single question or multiple questions.
Barrett said he feels this Commission and the City Council need to look out into the
future. These improvements will be here for 25 to 30 years and they need to do them
right. Barrett said they need to come in strong with a recommendation and there should
only be one question. Brill said they need to educate the public. They may also want to
have neighborhood meetings. Lambert pointed out that the City Council has a
responsibility to allow the residents the opportunity to decide if they want these facilities.
It is their not responsibility to encourage the residents on how to vote but to give them
the facts. The Parks Commission as citizens can go out and urge the residents to support
the referendum. Mackay said he feels the City Council needs to be behind this
referendum and they need to support it to make it happen.
Crain said he feels they need to keep the questions simple and not be so specific. If the
citizens can see that these projects are for additional opportunities for their children they
will be in favor of the referendum. People will support it if they know that the
improvements are needed and will cost a certain dollar amount. They need to trust the
City Council and Park Commission and the process. The simplicity factor of the question
is where it is at.
Lambert said he would be distributing a memorandum to the City Council presenting the
information that has been gathered over the years regarding this referendum. He asked
that the Commission continue thinking about this and that they be prepared to discuss
with the City Council a dollar amount for the referendum.
Jacobus said he is concerned with the fact that they have needs and that they have wants.
They definitely need some additional fields or ways to keep the fields healthy. The
Community Center also needs to be renovated. Jacobus said he considers an outdoor pool
a want. He said he is concerned that if all of these requests are put under one question
resulting in a $20 million referendum they may all get turned down and their needs will
not be funded. He asked if they want to risk the needs for the wants with one question.
Mackay said he thinks they do have to be clear and they may need to be more specific. If
the needs do not get approved, there must be other alternatives for funding them. Lambert
said the only other revenue available would be from the General Fund reserves. Crain
said it all comes down to a good education process. Jacobus said he thinks it would be
easier to pass a$15 million referendum for things that are needs. It would be more
difficult to pass a $25 million referendum that includes a $14 million waterpark. Barrett
pointed out that the waterpark and Community Center are kind of the same thing. You
can't build a waterpark without updating the Community Center. You can update the
Community Center without a waterpark. Barrett asked that once a decision is made on the
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amount of the referendum and how it is presented, all Commission members abide by
that decision and support it.
Lambert pointed out that since 1995 a significant higher number of people in this
community would support an outdoor pool much more than additional ball fields.
Jacobus said if they understood why ball fields were needed they might change their
opinion. It is this Commission's responsibility to inform the City Council on what is
needed, what is wanted and where the City should go from here. Gerst said he has served
on both the Community Center and pool task forces and feels they were good
recommendations. However, they both could be scaled back and done in phases. Barrett
said it is difficult to add on to a facility once it is completed.
2. The Greening of Chicago—Article by George F. Will
Lambert explained that this article was included in the Commission's agenda material for
their information. He said he hoped this article would provide the Commissioners with an
example of other cities that feel investment in open space,parks and in flowers is critical
to maintaining the quality of life to the City's residents.
3. Terms of Office
Lambert reminded the Board that Schaepe, Larson, Moriarity and Gerst's terms on the
Commission are up in March. He asked that if these members are interested they could
complete an application in January. Candidate interviews will be held on February 24
with appointments made on March 2. Lambert expressed his appreciation to the Board
for all of the work they have done.
4. Report of City Council Action
Lambert reported that the City Council did approve the EFE Interpretative Trails as
recommended by the Commission. The City Council will be considering the award of
bids for the bridge in the Purgatory Creek project with the Jean Harris memorial added as
an alternate.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
Motion: Jacobus moved, Brill seconded, to adjourn the meeting. The motion carried 7-0. The
meeting was adjourned at 9:45 p.m.